for you camera guys

[ImpalaSlayer]

i know there are a few here just want to see what you guys suggest. im looking for a new digital camera to replace the pos i have now. cant be to expensive but would like a good quality camera. i know almost nothing when it comes to photogrophy (i dont even think i spelled it right lol) so it has to be easy to use. another reason i hate the one i have now is that it has about a 3 second delay from when i press the button to the time it actually takes the pic. so i would like one with minimum delay. any info you guys have would be great. thanks

Dave

[crouse]

Hi Dave,

I have a Canon Digital Rebel (6.3 megapixels) and I recently acquired a Digital Rebel XT which is a 8 megapixel camera. I don't think these cameras are available anymore, however, I think it's been replaced with the XTi model. Most electronics stores or on-line sites like www.cameraworld.com (http://www.cameraworld.com) or www.bhphotovideo.com (http://www.bhphotovideo.com) sell a kit for about $650 Not sure if that's in your price range but this type of camera is so much better than the point & shoot digital cameras. Jeremy (jdando) is also a Canon user, so we'd be more than happy to give you a few pointers if you purchased one.

Thanks, Curt

[Breadfan]

Shutter delay is one of the main reasons to go to a SLR camera. SLR's feature virtually instant shutter release to button click. Even fast super duper digicams that aren't SLR have a small delay, even if it's only .5 seconds that can be enough to miss a shot.

XTi is good and came down in price, other option is the Nikon D40 (6mp). MP is not as important as you may think lens is more important in most cases. 6mp is big with a good lens and slr type camera you can print very large prints at 6mp.

I think the XTi is 10mp, and Nikon D40x is 10mp.

You can get the D40 kit with 18-55 lens for $450 these days, for less than $200 more add the 55-200 VR lens and you'll get a good starter setup.

Cheaper than that I would recommend Canon S series I have an S3 IS but within 1 year was tired of it and wanted to upgrade. Latest one is the S5 IS, very similar camera. They both have 12x zoom and are atleast 6mp and have image stabilization.

Big thing is the CCD size, regular non-sLR digicams have a small sensor. While still 6mp the pixels are smaller therefore less light hits each one. ISO lets you take faster shots in lower light by turning up the "gain". More "gain" means more noise in the pic. SLR camera's use a CCD the size of 35mm film. As a result they are better at capturing light due to their larger sensor size. More light hits the sensor. As a result, less gain is needed to get the same light levels.

A regular camera at ISO 800 is pretty nasty looking. A SLR at 1600 or more is really not bad. A regular camera at 1600 is hideous. Some pocket digicams feature up to 3200 ISO and at that you can BARELY make out what you took. Looks like a huge pic from an early camera phone! SLR's with 3200 and noise reduction are still fairly respectable but only ot be used in extreme circustances.

I'll post some examples as I dig em up

[sailsmen]

I bought a Sony in '05 w/ Zeiss lens. 4 MP and great pics. Unfortunately it died.

Replaced w/ Nikon 7 MP. Pics are avg at best. Low lite are terrible.

Point is it's the lens.

[Breadfan]

One main reason I upgraded to SLR was to get sharper pictures and also be able to take better action shots with less noise. Also, shots in the dark with more ISO and exposure time and less noise.

Here's a good example.

My old Canon S3 IS took good pics.

However, at higher ISO levels, it got nasty quick.

Here's 800 ISO on the Canon S3 (non SLR digicam)
http://www.ionicflux.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_IMG_0096%7E0.jpg

This shrunk pic doesn't look too bad, but zoom in and it gets worse: (NOTE: In good light you do not usually need a high ISO unless you are doing fast action. The "Action" setting on most point and shoot digicams maxes out ISO to allow for faster shutter speed to capture action without blur, the tradeoff is more noise. This pic was taken with high ISO as an example)
http://www.ionicflux.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/IMG_0096a.jpg



That was in daylight, with a very fast exposure time.


By way of comparison, here's the Nikon D40 at night, with no light other than a nearly full moon. 10 second exposure, and 1600 ISO. (I think the Canon S3 has 1600 as a "HI" iso mode but it's so nasty even the camera hides this mode)

As you can see, it looks pretty good...
http://www.ionicflux.com/gallery/albums/octobermisc/normal_DSC_0037.JPG

Zoomed in, even at 1600 ISO and a very long exposure, noise is there but livable and understandable as this pushes the limits:

http://www.ionicflux.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSC_0037%7E0.jpg

[Breadfan]

That being said, for the price the S3 isn't a bad camera. It can take great shots:

http://www.ionicflux.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/IMG_0086007.jpg

http://www.ionicflux.com/gallery/albums/june07nature/normal_IMG_0717071.jpg

It's also more portable than SLR, I wouldn't cry as hard if I dropped it and broke it, and it has a movie mode that takes decent quality AVI videos.


The Nikon D40 also takes great shots:

Taken through a not so clean glass window on a rainy day (no tripod)

http://www.ionicflux.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_d400007.jpg

http://www.ionicflux.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_d400001.jpg
Nature:

http://www.ionicflux.com/gallery/albums/october07camping/normal_DSC_00540043.jpg



Action:

Canon S3:
http://www.ionicflux.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_IMG_1029019-1.jpg

Nikon D40:
http://www.ionicflux.com/gallery/albums/capitol01/normal_DSC_0257257.jpg



In terms of photo versatility the Nikon (or other SLR) would win any day.

That being said for the price the S3 IS (non SLR) holds it's own but you may find yourself frustrated with it after awhile, it's great for quick shots or taking rock climbing (if you might drop it that is) but you will find in some places you will quickly go beyond it's capabilities and end up with pics you wish weren't noisy in low light/high iso situations.

As for SLRs Canon vs Nikon honestly whichever you choose you will like they're very very close and the technology of the bodies changes so often. Find the one you like with the lenses you like and you will be happy. I ended up going Nikon mainly due to knowing a few folks who shot with it so it was easier for me to get Nikon advice.

PS. In all the pics I posted although some are cropped to show detail none are color edited the color, contrast, and brightness are as they came off the camera.

[larryo340]

I use this Kodak Z712is, doesn't compare to SLR digital, but it takes decent pics and has a fairly quick capture speed of .26 of a second. It was reasonly priced ($199 at Costco) and has a nice 12X optical zoom. With the HD dock I can view HD photos and video on on my HDTV. Since I'm not a Photography nut, these are good enough for me.

What do you guys think?

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/documents/72/0900688a8067c272/Z712_FL_250x200.jpg
This was taken in E-Town from over 100' away (overcast when taken)
http://lh5.google.com/larryo340/R_xHVy1Zj1I/AAAAAAAAAEo/6jf_o16huqA/100_1229.JPG?imgmax=576

and up close (sunny when taken)
http://lh5.google.com/larryo340/R_xHqy1Zj2I/AAAAAAAAAEw/UzXDBu7ncsA/100_1210.JPG?imgmax=576

[Eric91Z]

Cheaper than that I would recommend Canon S series I have an S3 IS but within 1 year was tired of it and wanted to upgrade. Latest one is the S5 IS, very similar camera. They both have 12x zoom and are atleast 6mp and have image stabilization.


I bought a new S5 IS last year (the S3 IS was discontinued). For what I use it for I am very pleased with it. I am definitely not enough of a photographer (at this point in my life) to need an SLR camare and the price on the S5 was right.

That being said, I would love to add a smaller digital camera that is a little more portable for quick point and shoot stuff. But other than that the S5 does a good job and takes very nice pictures - compared to what I am used to anyway. Was very easy to pick up and just use. I could definitely spend more time learning how to use it more and has way more features than this amateur photographer uses.

[vkirkend]

Dave, Give me a price range and i will check the Consumer Reports Website for suggestions..

[ckadiddle]

I have a Kodak Z740. Bought it for the 10x optical zoom. Ignore the phrase "digital zoom". That is done through software interpolation and makes photos grainy as shown in one photo above. Pay attention to "optical zoom", that is done with the actual physical lenses of the camera. These photos were taken with the Z740 by myself and a friend with the autofocus settings. Yes, it takes a few secs for the autofocus to do its thing, but it takes pretty good pictures for my purposes. One of our local MM owners has a MUCH better digital camera that takes much better photos, but I am pretty sure it cost several times what mine did.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f129/ckadiddle/maraudervilleIV/photosz168.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f129/ckadiddle/maraudervilleIV/photosz143.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f129/ckadiddle/maraudervilleIV/photos096.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f129/ckadiddle/photos025.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f129/ckadiddle/photos029.jpg

[Breadfan]

Yeah, the S5 IS should be a great camera, it will be capable of a lot of great shots. If you get really into it, or want to do fast action or low light, you will start to see it's limits espeically in high ISO.

I think they also fixed the video recording, on the S3 it can only do 1gb at a time, which means about 10 minutes for high quality. Without this limitation the S3/S5 would pull second duty as a digital video camera, as it has stereo microphone and you record through the 12x optical lens with digital zoom beyond that. The videos that come off my S3 look great, are 640x480 full motion, and have great sound. Hard to believe they came off a digicam and not a video camera.

I kept my S3 when I upgraded to SLR because it's still a very versatile camera that takes good shots.

For smaller, the smaller Canon handhelds also take good pics. They will have less optical zoom (3-5x usually) but take nice shots with a compact size. Casio Elixim is also a nice pocket digicam.

[Eric91Z]

Yeah, the S5 IS should be a great camera, it will be capable of a lot of great shots. If you get really into it, or want to do fast action or low light, you will start to see it's limits espeically in high ISO.



I have noticed some of the limitations in low light situations. It can get confused on wanting you to use the flash or not. And when you use the flash in low light on the Auto setting it does well on what gets lit up by the flash, but background stuff not so good.

The pictures of both cars in my signature above were taken with the S5. Here is another sample picture with the S5:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/1/1/3/5/IMG_0043.jpg

[ImpalaSlayer]

wow thanks breadfan and others. some of the stuff made sence but some didnt make so much sence to me. so i think you guys are telling me that the cannon s5 IS would be a good camera? i dont plan on getting to crazy with taking pictures. i just like to take pics of my cars and a few other things, mainly to show all of you guys lol. any idea what the s5 will run?

[ImpalaSlayer]

i looked up the cannon s5 on cameraworld.com and it said about 350 wich is right about my price range. and the way tou guys made it sound, it sounds like a good bit of bang for the buck.

http://www.cameraworld.com/product/541161626.htm

thats what i came up with. is that all i will need? or do i need a lens and other stuff? i know i will need a memory card though.

[Breadfan]

If you get the S5 all you'll need is a good SD (memory card) and some batteries, I'd recommend getting some rechargables, but you will find it's performance on alkaline isn't that bad. Otherwise everything else is included.

I think the S5 will serve you well. These camera's are simple to use and take great pics on "Auto" but also have plenty of manual modes to let you play around.

Amazon has it for $300: http://www.amazon.com/Canon-PowerShot-Digital-Optical-Stabilized/dp/B000Q3043Y/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1207760092&sr=8-1

[ImpalaSlayer]

Breadfan i cant thank you enough. :cheers:

[Breadfan]

No prob best of luck with it we look forward to some good MM pics!

[oldekid]

Dave, I'm glad to see you are getting some input and lots of help. There are several good brands of cameras out there, but I will have to admit, I have been a Canon fan for a long time. I have a couple of Canon DSLR camera bodies and several interchangeable lenses. I also have a smaller, easy to carry around Canon G7, that I always carry in the console of my Maruader.

My advice to you, if you are on a budget and prefer something simple is to check out the S5IS model mentioned before. My wife has it, and is really doing some nice stuff. She has a good photographic eye, but has no interest in learning the technical aspects of photography, so she is pretty much a point and shoot kind of person. As mentioned before, it has a great zoom capability, has lots of features, and as Breadfan has already said, if you keep it on the lower ISO settings, it will work well for you.

Anyhow, if you start out with a fixed lens, point and shoot camera and you really get into it, you can always upgrade later to a DSLR.

Good luck, and enjoy whatever you decide to get. Based on what I'm seeing, here, you have a lot of knowledge on this forum to refer to if you should need it.

:beer:

[ckadiddle]

i looked up the cannon s5 on cameraworld.com and it said about 350 wich is right about my price range. and the way tou guys made it sound, it sounds like a good bit of bang for the buck.

http://www.cameraworld.com/product/541161626.htm

thats what i came up with. is that all i will need? or do i need a lens and other stuff? i know i will need a memory card though.
I looked the S5 IS up...very nice...now I want one!!!!! The Z740 was close to that price several years ago when I bought it.

[jdando]

ditto what Oldekid (john) said. Feel free to post or pm any specific questions.

[nomad]

If you want save $80-$100 bucks, pick up a Canon SX100 IS
8MP,10X Optical Zoom, nice,easy to use camera
Here's a comparison:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sideby side&cameras=canon_s5is%2Ccanon_sx1 00is&show=all

[CRUZTAKER]

Point is it's the lens.

The processor within the camera is where it all starts.
I can put a cheap tamaron lens on a Nikon D3 and still shoot low light better than any other camera currently on the market. However the D3 body alone is $5000 street.

Megapixels is SIZE, not neccesarily quality of reproduction and Lens plays a factor once established.

Short story, you have to spend money to get quality.
Quality starts with the cmos sensor size, capabilities, image processing speed, and sensitivity.

A $500 10mp pocket camera will NEVER reproduce like any manufacturers entry level DSLR can for this very reason.

Some entry DSLR's can be just as awefull as a pocket camera as well. Even if they weren't intended to be as a result of user error. Look at some of the latest shots from Kentucky taken with DSLR's. The image quality and contrast is awfull in a whole slew of entries. This is a combination of user error and camera quality. Both can be corrected to an extent.

I have only been interested in photography for 4 years. I only have two certified courses under my belt, and several Nikon courses logged. I have a loooong way to go learning. But what I have learned is what my camera is capable of, and if it does not perform, it is completely my error.

[jabird56]

A friend of mine is the senior AP Photographer at the Whitehouse. When he is away from the office he carries one of these in his shirt pocket.

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/f/finepix_f31fd/index.html

He uses it all the times when we're fishing in upper Northwest Ontario, and says for the money it's one of the best point and shoot digital cameras out there. He has told me that a lot of the different photographers at the Whitehouse carry one of these in their "hip pocket".

I use the Canon listed below, and I love it.

http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/dcc/data/2003-2004/2004_ps-s1is.html?lang=us&categ=srs&page=pss

And I still have a Canon listed below, that I bought in Okinawa Japan back in 1979...

http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/film/data/1976-1985/1978_a1.html?lang=us&categ=srs&page=a

This was and STILL is a GREAT film camera.

[oldekid]

The processor within the camera is where it all starts.
I can put a cheap tamaron lens on a Nikon D3 and still shoot low light better than any other camera currently on the market. However the D3 body alone is $5000 street.I can appreciate the fact that you have a D3 and can shoot low light better than any other camera, but I think Dave indicated that he was on a budget.

My Canon 5D is also good at low light, and has often been compared to the Nikon D3, but is not as pricey, and is a couple years behind in technology. However, I think both of our cameras are out of his price range. Besides that, why would you want to spend $5000 dollars on a camera body and put a "cheap" Tamaron lens on it?

I think Dave is looking for an entry level setup that he won't have to take out a second mortgage to pay for.

[Breadfan]

I think that was just a case in point scenario

But I agree often times when a pic sucks it was my fault. ;)

For entry level dSLR bodies though you cannot go wrong with the Nikon entry level D40/D40x or the Canon XT/XTi both are excellent starters.

One reason I like the S3 (well nowadays the S5) and similar camera's is that they are still point and shoot simplicity but offer features beyond standard pocket cameras.

Why is that important?

Well, it may not be...

However if you are like me you may not have known (or don't know) that you will start to enjoy photography and perhaps develop it into a mini hobby. I always had the not-so great digicam. I had a 2mp HP for ages, and "upgraded" to a basic 4mp Kodak pocket digicam during a clearance sale.

I eventually got tired of taking 50 pictures, thinking I was framing things great, only to get home and find dark, noisy, blurry junk coming off the memory card.

At that time I decided I needed something better to get good shots and bought my Canon S3.

It was at that point that I learned my way around the S3 and began to learn what the more advanced features and terms of photography really meant and by trial and error how they affected the image.

As a result I began to want to photo beyond the limits of the S3 and moved to DSLR. And I'm still pretty new to DSLR only a few months under my belt.

So my perspective is buying a good point and shoot will not only get the basic point-and-shoot person better pics but will also open the doors for those who may want to dig in deeper but didn't know it due to the equipment they had been using.

[CRUZTAKER]

I can appreciate the fact that you have a D3 and can shoot low light better than any other camera....


Ah but I do not. That was just an example.

I have a far lower end unit than that.;)

My point was...why pay $4-$500 for a pocket camera that will just annoy you down the road when for the additional $125 you step away from that awfull 'digital-zoom' and slow motor action and into a nice fixed lens dslr?

[ckadiddle]

Oh yeah, FYI for digital camera newbies. Most cameras that advertise digital and optical zoom usually have an option buried in the menus somewhere to disable the digital zoom. That's the first thing I do after I get my hands on a new camera. Check your manual and disable it and it will cut way down on the grainy photos.

[hot-rauder]

No prob best of luck with it we look forward to some good MM pics!


Dave would have to buy a black one then!!!! :banana2:

jk buddy

[oldekid]

Ah but I do not. That was just an example.

I have a far lower end unit than that.;)

My point was...why pay $4-$500 for a pocket camera that will just annoy you down the road when for the additional $125 you step away from that awfull 'digital-zoom' and slow motor action and into a nice fixed lens dslr?Sorry I misread you CRUZTAKER, I got it now.
:beer:

[oldekid]

Just as an update guys, the Canon S5IS has a 12X optical zoom. There is an additional digital zoom as well, but I would never advise using it, as others have stated here.

[Breadfan]

Just as an update guys, the Canon S5IS has a 12X optical zoom. There is an additional digital zoom as well, but I would never advise using it, as others have stated here.

IIRC there is a bar on the zoom indicator on the screen that lets you know when optical zoom ends and digital zoom starts.

[ImpalaSlayer]

well thanks to your guyses help i went up to circut cirty and picked up the s5 IS

there are many buttons so i will probably have many questions lol

thanks again to all!

[jdando]

Good for you!

Don't forget to post the "duck" picture!

Here is a great Canon site

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/index.php

jeremy

[ImpalaSlayer]

describe said Duck picture.

[jdando]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/1/0/2/potnduck.jpg

Basically on POTN when you get a new lens/camera you take a picture of a duck and post it.

[oldekid]

well thanks to your guyses help i went up to circut cirty and picked up the s5 IS

there are many buttons so i will probably have many questions lol

thanks again to all!Wow, you actually did what we suggested? :banana:Just kidding.

Read through the instructions, and spend some time just playing around. I think you will have fun. There are lots of cool features that you can try out.
I don't want to get too technical right now, but there are some tips that will help you out, once you get used to the fully auto mode.

Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask for help.

[Breadfan]

Good buy! Very versatile point and shoot camera. Enjoy the macro too, and "super macro" :)

[ImpalaSlayer]

will a turkey work?> i dont have a duck lol

[ImpalaSlayer]

beautiful mallard though

[warren]

Ck out the DSC-H50/B Sony9.1 meg.pic., 15X, new HDTV1080P connection. It's theirnewest - due to be out May 1st.399.00Warren