We will take you over.....

[OneBADLsE]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUaY3LhJ-IQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUaY3LhJ-IQ)

The liberals let the cat out of the bag....their true communist colors (as if we didnt know it already)


Mad Maxx...here we come
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[Bluerauder]

Oh yeah ... that will make things SO much better. :rolleyes: How do these people get elected? Nevermind .... I know the answer to that one. :P

[O's Fan Rich]

See the guy and gal to her right hiding their laughter?

Sheesh....

[BruteForce]

Maxine is not the sharpest crayon in the box. I wouldn't take her statements as reflecting the intent of the Democratic Party.

[dohc324ci]

Maxine is not the sharpest crayon in the box. I wouldn't take her statements as reflecting the intent of the Democratic Party.


Maybe so, but many elected democrats think this way. The utopian society that they force on us is far fetched = Socialism Light.

[BruteForce]

Maybe so, but many elected democrats think this way.

What proof do you have of that? I can pull cr@p outta thin air too... like "many elected republicans are child molesters"... Oh wait...

[Todd]

What proof do you have of that? I can pull cr@p outta thin air too... like "many elected republicans are child molesters"... Oh wait...


I wouldnt say a majority would seek nationalization but I promise you more than this azz hat in the video wants it.

I dont think there is a way to see what is in the hearts and minds of men.... But it doesnt take much to speculate. Just look at what they have proposed with socialized health care. They say it isnt being handled well by private businesses so they regulate, then regulate even more, then a little more, and then finally start the push for socialization of health care.

If anyone is nieve enough to think that people who would try to control all Americans health care including proposing making it MANDATORY (ie against the law not to have it) to have health insurance wouldnt try to nationalize oil in this country, they are sadly mistaken.



I wouldnt want the government in control of oil (regardless of party in power) any more than I want them controlling social security, education, or any of the other programs they have managed to f#$@ up.

[OneBADLsE]

What proof do you have of that? I can pull cr@p outta thin air too... like "many elected republicans are child molesters"... Oh wait...

Pulling what out of whos thin air??? What planet are you from again???

[sailsmen]

A few simple facts;
Who owns 67% of the untapped oil below US Land? Answer "Big Gov't"

Who owns 100% of the untapped oil off US Coast? Answer "Big Gov't"

Who refuses to sell this oil? Answer "Big Gov't"

How much is this oil that "Big Gov't" refuses to sell? The same amount of oil we are currently buying from the Middle East.

For every dollar of gasoline "Big Oil" makes 8 cents profit.

For every dollar of gasoline "Big Gov't" makes 15 cents in taxes.

The average price paid for a gallon of gas in March 2008 was 10% lower in todays dollars than March 1982.

Chemical, Non-auto mfg, drug, alchohol and tabacco industries in 2007 were more profitable than "Big Oil" in 2007.

In 2007 the market capialization of "Big Oil" which consist of 184 companies was $1.6 trillion. "Big Gov't" takes $4.5 trillion per year in taxes.

Exxon sells 3.2% of the World Supply and owns .62% of the World's known reserves.

Stop "Blood for Oil" by lifting the ban on US Oil. Made in USA Oil protects USA jobs!

[BruteForce]

Pulling what out of whos thin air??? What planet are you from again???

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Run and hide boys and girls! :eek::rolleyes:

[OneBADLsE]

A few simple facts;
Who owns 67% of the untapped oil below US Land? Answer "Big Gov't"

Who owns 100% of the untapped oil off US Coast? Answer "Big Gov't"

Who refuses to sell this oil? Answer "Big Gov't"

How much is this oil that "Big Gov't" refuses to sell? The same amount of oil we are currently buying from the Middle East.

For every dollar of gasoline "Big Oil" makes 8 cents profit.

For every dollar of gasoline "Big Gov't" makes 15 cents in taxes.

The average price paid for a gallon of gas in March 2008 was 10% lower in todays dollars than March 1982.

Chemical, Non-auto mfg, drug, alchohol and tabacco industries in 2007 were more profitable than "Big Oil" in 2007.

In 2007 the market capialization of "Big Oil" which consist of 184 companies was $1.6 trillion. "Big Gov't" takes $4.5 trillion per year in taxes.

Exxon sells 3.2% of the World Supply and owns .62% of the World's known reserves.

Stop "Blood for Oil" by lifting the ban on US Oil. Made in USA Oil protects USA jobs!

Well said :beer:

[PonyGuy]

Made in USA Oil protects USA jobs!

Yep! USA companies protect USA jobs...

I worked for AMERICAN OIL COMPANY in Corporate Research for 20 years. Then their bigwigs sold out to British Petroleum (and put gazillions into their own pockets) and I was subsequently "retired" at 51 years old, 2 months after my 4th lumbar surgery while I was still unable to walk.
Those peckerheads did a number on me and my family, fore sure.

[dohc324ci]

Your argument is a "Fallacy". My point maybe generalized is Democrates usually are for "Big" government (although Bush has been doing a good job of this).

I for one am not for expansion of government; I work in the healthcare and all I can say is GOV'T KEEP OUT! Coverage for all means no choice, long wait times, poor patient care. Government is just not efficient becuase no one that is accountable "really" suffers the consequences.


Gov't run = Lame - painfully slow


What proof do you have of that? I can pull cr@p outta thin air too... like "many elected republicans are child molesters"... Oh wait...

[dreydin]

/tag bc of firewall

[BruteForce]

Your argument is a "Fallacy".

Your original statement that I responded to was a gross generalization.

I agree that Big Gov doesn't do services well. However, they do pretty good with contracting with private providers to do the services. As someone in the health care field you would know that, right? The big problem with any Gov system is that the next administration is free to cut or eliminate funding.

How about vouchers? Right wingers seem to think that works with education.

[Dr Caleb]

I for one am not for expansion of government; I work in the healthcare and all I can say is GOV'T KEEP OUT! Coverage for all means no choice, long wait times, poor patient care.

As someone who also works in *public* healthcare, you are completely wrong.

Having government as the sole healthcare insurer means less paperwork, and loss of the profit motivation. Doctors still work for themselves, there is always choice; more choice, and better care.

Pay attention to "Jack Bauer". (sorry if this warps anyone mind)

http://www.ndp.ca/node/4335

[OneBADLsE]

^^^^:eek:^^^^

[Cordoba1]

Actually - I didn't watch the video, but read the headline...

I'm in favor of having the governement operate certain pieces of very important infrastructure: Water, Roads, Energy, etc...

I hate the fact that many of our roads are going private. Did you know that they often ask for (and our government grants) no-compete clauses for the new owners of these roads? What this means is that often they will change the timing of the lights on formerly good routes causing traffic to be worse than it used to be.... incenting people to use the toll road!

[sailsmen]

What I do know is my mother was diagnosed w/ Cancer in 1996 and my father in 1998. Both are well and cancer free.

Had we lived in the UK they both would have probably died a long time ago. I know I lived there. My fathers Dr lived there several years.

Gov't needs to give the individual the same benefits it does to employers for purchasing health insurance.

The big problem with big gov't is REGULATION as in who gets an MRI or an operation in lieu of radiation so and so forth. Over 60 and smoke no heart surgery or MRI 8 month wait, check some of these "Progressive National Health Plans". You are required by law to pay but they are not required to treat you in a timely manner or to any standard or allow you to have any input over your treatment or give you back the money they took from you. Hospitals are constantly have fund raisers in some of these countries for basic operating expenses.

There are "Health Brokers" in some of these countires whose job it is to arrange health care in other countries and to then petition your own gov't for reimbursement.

I can pick my Drs, my hospital, my treatment and input over what I am being charged.

"Freedom ain't Free" & "Nothing is for nothing".

[Dr Caleb]

I can pick my Drs, my hospital, my treatment and input over what I am being charged.

"Freedom ain't Free" & "Nothing is for nothing".

We always go here in these discussions.

I can pick my Doctor, my treatment, and I am charged $32 a month. Period. And I'm in the only province that bills health care costs directly. Most others don't even pay the $32 that I do. If I want an MRI, PET or CAT scan - I can have it tomorrow. (and my wallet will be $2000 lighter).

And the guy down the street doesn't have to become homeless because he got some curable form of bone cancer that his insurer doesn't feel like covering.

Freedom ain't free - but the US government still pays more per capita on Health care than any provincial government in Canada. And we have 100% of the population covered.

A little taste of our 'third world' care:

http://www.capitalhealth.ca/NewsAndEvents/NewsReleases/2008/GrandOpeningMazankowskiAlberta HeartInstitute.htm

Right down the street:

http://www.childrenshospital.ab.ca/albertachildrenshospital.html

And what 'Community Health' is like, if it's "for profit":

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/10/04/fundraising-dca.html
http://www.depmed.ualberta.ca/dca/

Did you know Doctors in the UK actually get paid more, if their patients are healthier? What an absurd concept!

[dohc324ci]

Brute,

"However, they do pretty good with contracting with private providers to do the services. As someone in the health care field you would know that, right?"

If you can find a provider to accept these types of patients (their small business owners too). Far more difficult than you would think. The bleeding heart card doesnt always work.

Voucher.....Right Wingers....is that a "gross generalization"? We can nit pick and debate every debacle each side has made but I will only do so if we can record our transcripts compile then send to congress:)

[sailsmen]

Facts are I lived in the UK and my dads Dr lived in the UK. Had my father lived in the UK he would probably be dead.

Had my mother lived in the UK she would be dead.

Neither was saddled w/ onerous medical expenses.

More and more are coming to the USA for treatment because they cannot wait for a test or surgery.

Of the people who want medical insurance over 90% have it.

I have not lived in Canada nor do I wish to. I am not interested in socialized health care. This nation fought the socialists during WWII. We do not need to become socialists.

With freedom comes responsibility, including the right to be stupid.

Some % short films on single payer providers;
http://www.onthefencefilms.com/movies.html

[BruteForce]

This nation fought the socialists during WWII.

Actually they were our allies. But why let facts get in the way?


With freedom comes responsibility, including the right to be stupid.

Which you practice with quite the flourish.

[Dr Caleb]

Facts are I lived in the UK and my dads Dr lived in the UK. Had my father lived in the UK he would probably be dead.

Had my mother lived in the UK she would be dead.


So, can you pick lottery numbers too? Good to hear they are OK though.



Neither was saddled w/ onerous medical expenses.

More and more are coming to the USA for treatment because they cannot wait for a test or surgery.


That's also good to hear. One good thing about the free market - you can get whatever you want, if you have the money. As I said, I can get and MRI or hip replacement immediately - if I'm willing to pay for it.



Of the people who want medical insurance over 90% have it.


As we've seen, that doesn't mean you will get the treatment you need, as it's up to your insurance companies balance sheet or your pocket book. But of the 100% of people who <b>want</b> health insurance, how many can afford it? How many of those could afford $32 a month?

The US government already spends more per capita on healthcare than the Canadian government does - but not everyone is covered in the US. People above say they are OK with government running roads, water, sewer etc. The government is also responsible for our protection, with Police, the courts and the military. Why is is such a big stretch that they should also be responsible for your well being by providing access to basic health care service?



I have not lived in Canada nor do I wish to. I am not interested in socialized health care. This nation fought the socialists during WWII. We do not need to become socialists.


I think you confuse 'fascism' with 'socialism'. They are quite opposite ends of the political spectrum. I see that confusion with 'Communism' and 'Socialism' too. There were no socialists we fought against in WWII. I guess the HMOs like this kind of confusion; it keeps you scared of the better alternatives.

Although Canada is a great place to live, you'll find we don't have socialized health care. That a common misconception, usually the result of websites like you quote below.

In socialized medicine (Sweden, the UK, etc.) Doctors work for the State. In Canada, Doctors (GP's, specialists) work for themselves. Our system is no different than yours, other than the key difference - there is only one Health Insurance company. And having that kind of large volume results in huge savings across the whole system.



With freedom comes responsibility, including the right to be stupid.

Some % short films on single payer providers;
http://www.onthefencefilms.com/movies.html

Now, that site is hilarious. Seriously, people cite Micheal Moore films for their bias, and those films are doubly so. Cherry picking the worst cases, and representing them as systemic problems is the height of absurdity. I guess 'man gets life saving operation on time and without complications' doesn't make for good propaganda.

I guess then that I shouldn't dispel those myths with links like this:

http://www.ahw.gov.ab.ca/waitlist/ Note the bold text - top left corner.
http://www.health.alberta.ca/key/reform_stronger.html

The Alberta model for wait time elimination was implemented country wide, because over the 10 years it was developed it showed it was a huge success. I guess 'on the fence films' didn't get that memo.

[sailsmen]

The Post is about a US Congresswoman "Socializing" the Oil Industry.

We fought Nationalsozialist a/k/a NAZI."National Socialist German Workers’ party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, or NSDAP), also called the Nazi party"

No system is perfect. Large numbers of people are coming to the USA for health care from countires where it is "free".

I wasn't talking about lottery numbers but my parents. Relating real life examples. FYI, the Dr who operated on my father who spent several years in the UK upon my questions advised he did not operate in the UK, only radiation. Why, because there were only 6 Drs in his area of practise to treat 2.5 million people. He would have been operating 24/7 and still unable to treat all who needed treatment.

Anyone who has lived in SE LA for the past 3 years and wants gov't to be in charge of their Health Care is mentally deficient.

In New Orleans there are 17 Free Walk Up Clinics. In LA anyone who earns less than 200% of the poverty level is treated for free at one of several hospitals.

Several hospitals charge a grading scale based on income. I have clients who pay 80% of insuranc and have a very low participation rate because the employees prefer the virtually free hospitals.

The Gov't will decide what Health Care it will and will not pay for and under what circumstances it will pay for.

You say everyone is 100% covered, but covered for wht? As in they don't have to pay money but can't get a test for 8 months so they pay for their life?

No where has anyone mentioned proir to your posts the Canadian Health Care System yet you feel it necessary to defend it, why?

Keep calling me names Brute Force it continues to reveal your character for the benefit of others.

[BruteForce]

Keep calling me names Brute Force it continues to reveal your character for the benefit of others.

I have never called you any names. You stated that people are free to be stupid. In fact you stated it was their right. I merely mentioned that you are pretty good at it.

If you don't want the insult boomerang to come back and smack you, don't throw it in the first place. And I certainly don't need a lesson in character from some hypocritical big oil apologist up to his arm pits in "energy-related" money.

Nazis are not socialists. In fact they are at the polar opposite of the political spectrum. For that boner I will call you a name... twit. Nanny nanny boo boo. Your perspectives are tainted by a slanted, sloppy grasp of history. You listen to too much talk radio I bet. That stuff will rot your brain.

[Aren Jay]

Funny thing is our Conservatives are more left leaning than your Liberals.

Yet our Liberals dropped our taxes to levels below your taxes.

We do have communist health care and farm policies.

Yes our health system is broken. It works when you can get to it, but getting to it is a problem.

Oil is something we like because we keep finding more and more of it. $600 a barrel would be great, for us. Mind you i would be riding an electric three/four wheeled bicycle

[Dr Caleb]

The Post is about a US Congresswoman "Socializing" the Oil Industry.


Yes, it was. A dumb comment by a Clueless Congresscritter. But what fun is that? :)

My original comment was to 'bcastro', when you decided to jump in. It's my nature to speak up when I see someone using the 'Everyone knows that . . .' line of debate. Logical debate states that everything after 'Everyone knows that . . .' is patently false.



No where has anyone mentioned proir to your posts the Canadian Health Care System yet you feel it necessary to defend it, why?


You used the above 'Everyone know that . . .' defence with your 'Had we lived in the UK they both would have probably died a long time ago' which is just a variation. I know the Canadian system, so I use it to show you how you are wrong. You are wrong because unless the mortality rate in the UK is 100% for whatever they had, and the survival rate in the US is also 100% your argument is an 'argument from authority.'

I know Healthcare is a source of pride for many, and I don't mean to seem like I'm stomping on it, but there are facts which must be known. People need to take the blinders off, not just on this subject, but in general.

It's my nature to try to teach. What can I say? We didn't really need another "price of gasoline/Hugo Chavez is evil" thread, did we? ;)

[Haggis]

We didn't really need another "price of gasoline/Hugo Chavez is evil" thread, did we? ;)

And Barak Obama is the anti-christ.

[Dr Caleb]

And Barak Obama is the anti-christ.

See, now I wasn't sure. He looks too good in that suit, so I was suspicious.

The hysteria over Hugo is amusing - considering none of us can vote for him. Like us Canucks weighing in on who should win (Hillary/Obama) - because we can't vote on that one ethier.

[Haggis]

See, now I wasn't sure. He looks too good in that suit, so I was suspicious.

...and he has a Golden Tongue.

[ParkRanger]

Nazis are not socialists. In fact they are at the polar opposite of the political spectrum. For that boner I will call you a name... twit. Nanny nanny boo boo. Your perspectives are tainted by a slanted, sloppy grasp of history. You listen to too much talk radio I bet. That stuff will rot your brain.

Spot on BF. He doesn't know the difference (or very confused) between the two. :lol:

[sailsmen]

The surgery survival rate for my father was in 90%+ and the radiation survival rate was less than 50%, hence my statement probably died. Probably as in more likely than not. 100% is certainty.

“What I do know is my mother was diagnosed w/ Cancer in 1996 and my father in 1998. Both are well and cancer free.

Had we lived in the UK they both would have probably died a long time ago. I know I lived there. My fathers Dr lived there several years.”

“Facts are I lived in the UK and my dads Dr lived in the UK. Had my father lived in the UK he would probably be dead.

Had my mother lived in the UK she would be dead.”

The Cancer my mother was diagnosed with is very rare and difficult to diagnose. Fortunately she was able to send her slides to someone who as it turned out discovered this rare Cancer. Had she followed the standard course of treatment she would be dead.

Those are the facts as given to me by their Doctors.

I find it interesting that you have virtually no knowledge about my parents Cancer or the treatment they received and yet you can tell me I am wrong. 'Everyone know that . . .' defence” I never said anything about “Everyone”. I related what I know to be fact based on my own personal experience, not something I got from another party.

I am curious in that you are charged $32 per month, which I assume you are compelled to pay, and yet if you need a test right away, which most sick people do, you say you will pay $2,000. Please comment so I will understand.

FYI, the times I have visited Canada I enjoyed myself.

Brute Force, Dr. Caleb and Park Ranger - NAZI “German, by shortening & alteration from Nationalsozialist, from national national + Sozialist socialist”
“Nazism, commonly known as National Socialism,[1][2][3][4] (German: Nationalsozialismus), refers primarily to the ideology and practices of the Nazi Party under Adolf Hitler; and the policies adopted by the government of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945, a period also known as the Third Reich.[5][6][7][8] The official name of the party was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei[9] (NSDAP) — “National Socialist German Workers’ Party”.

NAZI were people who were members of the “National Socialist German Worker’s Party”. They preferred to call themselves "National Socialists".
“At the beginning of the 8th year of the National Socialism Revolution” – Adolf Hitler

The “Peoples Car” a/k/a Volkswagen – Adolf Hitler

With your revisionists history apparently you are trying to take “Socialist” out of the “National Socialist German Worker’s Party” a/k/a NAZI. As part of your revisionists history next you will say Stalin, Mao and Castro were/are not Communists.

Brute Force – “"energy-related" money” everything is done with energy, including the post you made. My efforts which I am paid for reduce the cost of energy. Apparently resulting in one case in enough savings that the Chairman of one of the worlds largest corporations thanked us in person at a time when they were bankrupt.

Brute Force and Park Ranger your words towards me say more about you than I can ever say.

[BruteForce]

Brute Force, Dr. Caleb and Park Ranger - NAZI “German, by shortening & alteration from Nationalsozialist, from national national + Sozialist socialist”
“Nazism, commonly known as National Socialism,[1][2][3][4] (German: Nationalsozialismus), refers primarily to the ideology and practices of the Nazi Party under Adolf Hitler; and the policies adopted by the government of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945, a period also known as the Third Reich.[5][6][7][8] The official name of the party was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei[9] (NSDAP) — “National Socialist German Workers’ Party”.

NAZI were people who were members of the “National Socialist German Worker’s Party”. They preferred to call themselves "National Socialists".
“At the beginning of the 8th year of the National Socialism Revolution” – Adolf Hitler

The “Peoples Car” a/k/a Volkswagen – Adolf Hitler

With your revisionists history apparently you are trying to take “Socialist” out of the “National Socialist German Worker’s Party” a/k/a NAZI. As part of your revisionists history next you will say Stalin, Mao and Castro were/are not Communists.


So by your rational, Hitler was a communist? Talk about lunatic fringe.

You are totally clueless. They are not the same nor are they even related. Go read about them instead of getting stuck on the "label." This is like saying "dandelions are carnivores because the word lion is in there".

I see you also conveniently left out the rest of the definition from Wikipedia that blows your "explanation" out of the water.


Nazism is generally considered by scholars to be a form of fascism, and while it incorporated some elements from the political left, it formed its most solid alliances on the political right.
...
Among the key elements of Nazism were anti-parliamentarism, ethnic nationalism, racism, collectivism, eugenics, antisemitism, opposition to economic liberalism and political liberalism, anti-communism, and totalitarianism

How can you be a socialist AND be anti-communist?


Brute Force and Park Ranger your words towards me say more about you than I can ever say.

I find it hard to believe anyone can say more than you about anything all the while still not have said anything coherent. Maybe if you came on the site BEFORE cocktail hour? :shake:

Here's your tip of the day. Learn how to quote properly so we can properly glean your personal pearls of wisdom from within the mass of copy & paste plagiarism.

[sailsmen]

No where did I say Hitler was a communist. How you can ignore what Hitler said and the very name of the NAZI party is National Socialist and that NAZI called themselves Socialist is quite interesting.

From your Wikii that you apparently also ignore;
"The term “National Socialism” derives from this citizen-nation relationship, whereby the term socialism is invoked and is meant to be realized through the common duty of the individuals to the German people; all actions are to be in service of the Reich. The Nazis stated that their goal was to bring forth a nation-state as the locus and embodiment of the people’s collective will, bound by the Volksgemeinschaft, as both an ideal and an operating instrument. In comparison, traditional socialist ideologies oppose the idea of nations."

"The National Socialist party promised cultural renewal based on traditionalism, and it proposed military rearmament in opposition to the Treaty of Versailles; the National Socialist claimed that in the Treaty of Versailles and the liberal democracy of the Weimar Republic, Germany's national pride had been lost.[5]. The Nazis also endorsed the Dolchstoßlegende ("Stab in the back legend") which figured prominently in their propaganda as it did in propaganda of most other nationalist-leaning parties in Germany."

"The Nazis viewed private property rights as conditional upon the mode of use.[75] If the property was not being used to further Nazi goals, it could be nationalized. Government takeovers and threats of takeovers were used to encourage complance with government production plans, even if following these plans cost profits for companies. For example, the owner of the Junkers (aircraft) factory refused to follow the government’s directives, whereupon the Nazis took over the plant, placed the owner Hugo Junkers under house arrest, then compensated him for his loss."

"In place of ordinary profit incentive to guide the economy, investment was guided through regulation to accord to the needs of the State. The profit incentive for business owners was retained, though greatly modified through various profit-fixing schemes: “Fixing of profits, not their suppression, was the official policy of the Nazi party.” However the function of profit in automatically guiding allocation of investment and unconsciously directing the course of the economy was replaced with economic planning by Nazi government agencies.[77] Government financing eventually came to dominate the investment process, which the proportion of private securities issued falling from over half of the total in 1933 and 1934 to approximately 10 percent in 1935–1938. Heavy taxes on business profits limited self-financing of firms. The largest firms were mostly exempt from taxes on profits, however government control of these were extensive enough to leave “only the shell of private ownership.”

How can you ignore historical fact? Or are you saying the above are not Socialist policies or are you saying that the above did not happen. Just like many are now saying Castro is not a Communist. The same that say Stalin and Mao were not Communist.

Brute Force "How can you be a socialist AND be anti-communist?" Go ask many Western European countries, many were members in NATO whose primary purpose was protection from Communist. But if you believe Stalin and Mao were not Communists than you will also dispute this.


Keep saying lies about me since you cannot dispute the facts.

Keep on posting the real you keeps coming out.

[BruteForce]

Or are you saying the above are not Socialist policies or are you saying that the above did not happen. Just like many are now saying Castro is not a Communist. The same that say Stalin and Mao were not Communist.

The above are not exclusively socialist policies. If so then the US (and most ALL political systems) could be classified as a socialist country. Do your flowers eat meat?

Who are these "many" who claim Castro, Stalin and Mao are not communists?


Keep on posting the real you keeps coming out.

Who is the "real me" that keeps coming out? As far as I know I'm the only one who has posted using this user name. Should I post as someone else?

[Haggis]

:popcorn:

Don't stop now this is getting good.

[Dr Caleb]

I find it interesting that you have virtually no knowledge about my parents Cancer or the treatment they received and yet you can tell me I am wrong. 'Everyone know that . . .' defence” I never said anything about “Everyone”. I related what I know to be fact based on my own personal experience, not something I got from another party.


Logic does not require knowledge of your parents condition to know you are employing a logical fallacy.

If someone were to say 'The Mercury Marauder is the best car ever built' you can see it is a logical fallacy. By any measurement of 'best car ever' we know the Marauder is not - it's an opinion that it is the 'best car ever'. But we do know the Marauder is our favourite car ever.

Just as we know, there is no certainty your parents would have died if they had remained in the UK. And you are using facts based on someone else' experience = "Those are the facts as given to me by their Doctors." You might as well be saying 'The used car salesman said it was the best car ever built'.



I am curious in that you are charged $32 per month, which I assume you are compelled to pay, and yet if you need a test right away, which most sick people do, you say you will pay $2,000. Please comment so I will understand.


I am not compelled to pay - I am happy to pay. I will not be denied coverage because I don't pay (because I pay Provincial Income tax, it's illegal to deny me coverage). But - if you come here as a tourist, and don't have your own insurance - you will be sent a bill. A hefty one, at that.

Most other provinces simply take healthcare payments out of you yearly provincial taxes. Alberta bills directly, so you know the cost of your care - and starting next year Alberta will eliminate health care payments too.

Once again, you misinterpret what I say. If I NEED a test right away - I will get it. If I WANT a test right away, I will have to pay for it. For example - I have a prescription for a blood test my Doctor wants (called yesterday, and saw him yesterday). I have no appointment, but I can walk into the (PRIVATELY owned) lab, and get that test within 15 minutes. No cost.

If I WANT to get a baseline full body MRI that can be used for future diagnosis - that is not medically necessary, I will have to pay out of pocket for it. And I can get that done next day - so my 'access' is not an issue that some people seem to want to believe it is.



FYI, the times I have visited Canada I enjoyed myself.


I'm glad. I'm sure we enjoyed having you here. You'll always be welcome to come back.



Brute Force, Dr. Caleb and Park Ranger - NAZI “German, by shortening & alteration from Nationalsozialist, from national national + Sozialist socialist”
“Nazism, commonly known as National Socialism,[1][2][3][4] (German: Nationalsozialismus), refers primarily to the ideology and practices of the Nazi Party under Adolf Hitler;

As others have schooled you - 'Socialist' party was a ruse. They didn't believe in Socialism any more that 'Democrats'/'Republicans' believe in Democracy or the Republic, or the "Conservative Party of Canada" represent conservative values. It's pretty rare to find a political party where the name is representative of the party's belief system.

'Green' and 'Rhino' are two that do come to mind though.

[sailsmen]

The above are not exclusively socialist policies. If so then the US (and most ALL political systems) could be classified as a socialist country. Do your flowers eat meat?

Sailsmen -When your "dandelions" form a group of flowers calling themselves National Socialist, are members of the National Socialist "dandelion" Worker's Party, the leader of this party says they are begining the 8th year of the "National Socialism Revolution" and this party's policies are Socialist let me know because I want to hear and see this.

Who are these "many" who claim Castro, Stalin and Mao are not communists?

Sailsmen -Hollywood Liberals.


Who is the "real me" that keeps coming out? As far as I know I'm the only one who has posted using this user name. Should I post as someone else?

Sailsmen -Keep posting so we can continue finding out who the real you is.


A group of people call themselves National Socialist, are members of the National Socialist German Worker's Party, the leader of this party says they are begining the 8th year of the "National Socialism Revolution" and this party's policies are Socialist and yet you still say they are not Socialist?

What would they need to have to meet Brute Forces definition of Socialist?


The above from Wikii are part of the foundation of the National Socialist German Worker's Party and are also part of the foundation of "Socialism" thats why they are the National Socialist German Worker's Party. It's not hard to understand, it appears to be hard for you to accept.

[sailsmen]

Logic does not require knowledge of your parents condition to know you are employing a logical fallacy.

If someone were to say 'The Mercury Marauder is the best car ever built' you can see it is a logical fallacy. By any measurement of 'best car ever' we know the Marauder is not - it's an opinion that it is the 'best car ever'. But we do know the Marauder is our favourite car ever.

Just as we know, there is no certainty your parents would have died if they had remained in the UK. And you are using facts based on someone else' experience = "Those are the facts as given to me by their Doctors." You might as well be saying 'The used car salesman said it was the best car ever built'.

Sailsmen - I give you a real life example that I am intimately familiar with, facts from experts who treated my parents. Yet you say I am wrong? You must think you are God!


I am not compelled to pay - I am happy to pay. I will not be denied coverage because I don't pay (because I pay Provincial Income tax, it's illegal to deny me coverage). But - if you come here as a tourist, and don't have your own insurance - you will be sent a bill. A hefty one, at that.

Most other provinces simply take healthcare payments out of you yearly provincial taxes. Alberta bills directly, so you know the cost of your care - and starting next year Alberta will eliminate health care payments too.

Sailsmen - What happens if you don't pay this tax? Seems to me you have to pay.

Once again, you misinterpret what I say. If I NEED a test right away - I will get it. If I WANT a test right away, I will have to pay for it. For example - I have a prescription for a blood test my Doctor wants (called yesterday, and saw him yesterday). I have no appointment, but I can walk into the (PRIVATELY owned) lab, and get that test within 15 minutes. No cost.

Sailsmen - Who determines need vs want you or the Govt?

If I WANT to get a baseline full body MRI that can be used for future diagnosis - that is not medically necessary, I will have to pay out of pocket for it. And I can get that done next day - so my 'access' is not an issue that some people seem to want to believe it is.



I'm glad. I'm sure we enjoyed having you here. You'll always be welcome to come back.



As others have schooled you - 'Socialist' party was a ruse. They didn't believe in Socialism any more that 'Democrats'/'Republicans' believe in Democracy or the Republic, or the "Conservative Party of Canada" represent conservative values. It's pretty rare to find a political party where the name is representative of the party's belief system.

'Green' and 'Rhino' are two that do come to mind though.

Sailsmen - I am not being schooled for I have not learned anything from you or Brut Force that is of any value or use.

[BruteForce]

I give up. You're right.

Black is White
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

[Dr Caleb]

Sailsmen - I am not being schooled for I have not learned anything from you or Brut Force that is of any value or use.

Too bad, because you could stand to learn a little bit about debating.

Starting with: Politics is a two dimensional grid, not one dimensional line.

As Bruteforce says, you win. Deny reality, and substitute your own.

[dohc324ci]

How about just agreeing to disagree; everyone is entitled to their own opinions even if "you" think your right.

BTW, your comparing apples and oranges; Canada has a one payer system that is up to par with US as far as quality patient care. But why should the US go that route if quality measures are on par or slightly less. I agree reform to a one payer system is appealing but will be a difficult one to convert to in the US. This only works if everyone is on public health and is ok with higher taxes. Dont agree, as an excersize we could setup a poll to get a sample analysis.

Am I dead wrong to assume that in the "US" public health is "cumbersome" because its run by government. I work in "public health" in the US just speaking from my perspective. BTW, narrow list of hospitals, long wait times, hard to get referrals to a specialist are a common complaint in the county public health system plus more.

[Dr Caleb]

How about just agreeing to disagree; everyone is entitled to their own opinions even if "you" think your right.

Quite correct. But in order to debate, one must consider the opinions of others, even if they don't agree. Not even agreeing on facts, and cherry picking information to suit one's opinion goes against the spirit of debate.



BTW, your comparing apples and oranges; Canada has a one payer system that is up to par with US as far as quality patient care. But why should the US go that route if quality measures are on par or slightly less. I agree reform to a one payer system is appealing but will be a difficult one to convert to in the US. This only works if everyone is on public health and is ok with higher taxes. Dont agree, as an excersize we could setup a poll to get a sample analysis.

Why should the US go that route? Accessibility. In all this, quality of care is one thing I've never mentioned because I know the two systems are both very good on that. It's access to service that is far more important in my opinion.

And since when do you guys not do something because it is difficult? :) Taxes don't have to go higher - the US already spends more per capita on public healthcare than Canada does. All you guys need to do is what we clued into long ago - get better discounts based on volume. Find ways to spend that money smarter.

For example, when a new Cancer drug comes available, but it's $12,000 a month for treatment - all 10 provinces and 3 territories Health boards get together and buy vast quantities of it - that reduces the overall price by as much as half. I'm sure you all hear how Canadian drugs are so much cheaper than yours - one reason is because of volume purchasing.



Am I dead wrong to assume that in the "US" public health is "cumbersome" because its run by government. I work in "public health" in the US just speaking from my perspective. BTW, narrow list of hospitals, long wait times, hard to get referrals to a specialist are a common complaint in the county public health system plus more.

Hence the 'accessibility' above. The list of hospitals we can use goes like "1) All of them". Hospitals are state run. Therefore they are accessible by all.

From a Canadian perspective, seeing advertising for hospitals and drugs on some of the direct feed US stations is a little 'odd'.

As in my links above - wait time can be reduced easily. It's just a matter of prioritizing and redirecting where the wait times are shorter, or learning what causes wait times and eliminating the problem.

That is one of the benefits of a single payer system - it's easy to change directions when needed.

[sailsmen]

Too bad, because you could stand to learn a little bit about debating.

Starting with: Politics is a two dimensional grid, not one dimensional line.

As Bruteforce says, you win. Deny reality, and substitute your own.

It's not debating when someone plays "God" and says you are wrong based on a minimal amount of information w/o disputing the facts. It's playing "God".

Dr Caleb "Once again, you misinterpret what I say. If I NEED a test right away - I will get it. If I WANT a test right away, I will have to pay for it. For example - I have a prescription for a blood test my Doctor wants (called yesterday, and saw him yesterday). I have no appointment, but I can walk into the (PRIVATELY owned) lab, and get that test within 15 minutes. No cost."

Sailsmen - Who determines need vs want you or the Govt?


It appears that some have no knowledge of the NAZI Party, not even what NAZI stands for. ( Sailsmen -"A group of people call themselves National Socialist, are members of the National Socialist German Worker's Party, the leader of this party says they are begining the 8th year of the "National Socialism Revolution" and this party's policies are Socialist and yet you still say they are not Socialist? What would they need to have to meet Brute Forces definition of Socialist?")


No where have Dr Caleb or Brute Force proved the facts I have stated to be incorrect.

Brute Force and Dr. Caleb both say ignore words but only those that they say to ignore. It's easy to play "God".