Blackmobile on Fri. 13th went down for an 8 count!

[Blackmobile]

Well I've got some sad news but not totally surprising. I'd say, due to a tank of bad gas, mileage, and Fords poor cooling engine design, Blackmobile lost cylinder 7 & 8 after 130k miles. It appears the myth about cylinder #8 taking a beating due to heat, is true. I did a compression test and it shows only 80 PSI on 8 and 120 on 7. The result of this I believe is a detonation in piston #8, which caused a crack or hole in the piston.

<B>Here’s how it went down:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/ /><o:p></o:p></B></FONT></FONT></FONT></P><P><FONT color=black><FONT size=3><FONT face=After the meet, I was following another member home on the highway, when he began experiencing issues with his shifting, so I never really got into it. I followed until we got off the highway, where mine started giving me issues at idle. There was no EVENT that happened (Ping, bang, crackle, Nothing) where I could say the problem happened. I stated that I wasn't happy with the gas in the tank because I never pump gas from a station that is getting a delivery at that moment, but the price this one-day was 4.28 for premium and I couldn't pass it up.<o:p></o:p>
The odd thing is the engine runs very smooth with the low compressions and there is no ticking or tapping at all from the engine. But it is pressurizing the crankcase when running and spewing oil past the valve cover gaskets when pressure is built up, which in turn flooded the spark plug chambers with oil. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

All this is speculation until I get to remove the engine and tear it down, YES you heard it right, I am, and probably some friends will be yanking the engine out and tearing it down and see what the deal is. Mad money for the year has already been spent, so it’s time to get down and dirty and do what I have to do to get this baby back up and running. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
This is just some friendly words of advice. If you ever thought about getting the rear engine cooling mod, Get It. If you have over 100K miles without it, keep an eye out for #8. And if you have any misgivings about the tank of gas you have, add some octane booster, just in case.

[magindat]

Ed,
I am both saddenned and excited to hear this. Saddenned to hear your misfortune. Excited to help with another project. Let me know when, where, and how I can help. I'll do all I can to be there!
Good luck!
Rich

I hope this helps a little:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=628376

[Pops]

Ed thats to bad! Hope that it is not a hard repair. Sounds like some internals need to be replaced in the future so you can turn the wick up a little more. Still not bad with that kind of miles on her. I know you drove it just like grandma would have!

[magindat]

I know you drove it just like grandma would have!:rolleyes: Ed's Grandma has a bum right leg. It goes completely stiff every time she sits in a driver's seat! ;)

[Zack]

I found a source that can have a 10.0:1 Aluminator delivered to your door for $4500.

[Blackmobile]

Ed thats to bad! Hope that it is not a hard repair. Sounds like some internals need to be replaced in the future so you can turn the wick up a little more. Still not bad with that kind of miles on her. I know you drove it just like grandma would have!

Yeah, but sh drove a little duce coupe, and she was from Pasadena. LOL

[Blackmobile]

I found a source that can have a 10.0:1 Aluminator delivered to your door for $4500.

Thanks for the info, but the Mad Money funds have dried up for the year. Lean funds dictate a replacement or repair of the affected parts.

[merc]

I still have a O.E.M long block for sale.

[Blackmobile]

I still have a O.E.M long block for sale.

Thanks for the reminder, but the most cost effective route at the moment is to repair what I've got.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Are you at least going to re ring the whole motor, or is it literally going to be replacing only a few pistons and re ringing 2 cylinders? Make sure the new pistons are weight matched to the ones coming out, if that is the case.

[Blackmobile]

Are you at least going to re ring the whole motor, or is it literally going to be replacing only a few pistons and re ringing 2 cylinders? Make sure the new pistons are weight matched to the ones coming out, if that is the case.

It all depends on how the parts look when they come out, but as of now I don't intend to fix what ain't broke.

Here are the results of my compression test: Min / Max

1 - 210/200 5 - 210/220
2 - 210/220 6 - 190/200
3 - 210/220 7 - 120/125
4 - 210/220 8 - 80/80

[merc]

Thanks for the reminder, but the most cost effective route at the moment is to repair what I've got.

Really, that could be true. I was thinking new piston rings, honing, new head gasket,one or two pistons, bolts and stud kit. Not sure about the condition of the heads but you might want new springs and values. That could cost about 2,000 dollars with labor. Hopefully you have friends with skills. :banana:

[Blackmobile]

Really, that could be true. I was thinking new piston rings, honing, new head gasket,one or two pistons, bolts and stud kit. Not sure about the condition of the heads but you might want new springs and values. That could cost about 2,000 dollars with labor. Hopefully you have friends with skills. :banana:

That's what I pretty much expect, other that just 1 piston. But the heads appear to be fine. If it wasn't for all the blowby preassure I'd still be driving it to work, as I did last week ( Boy was there a mess to clean up under the hood after that). The only tapping you hear under the hood is the injectors.
I still have to do a wet compression test to see if it's the rings (which I don't believe it is) or if it's a cracked piston (which I expect to find after tearing it down).

One thing I can say about my last project car was "I have turned every bolt on the car" except for the body bushing, Most rusted out before I could get to them in 13 years of ownership.

[Zack]

If you take a 130k motor out and replace a few pistons, then throw it back together, I will have ZERO respect for you in the future.

Tell you what, empty your wallet and cash your next paycheck...then light it on fire, cause thats what you will be doing.

Park the car until you can do it the RIGHT WAY :up:

[Zack]

Edit on the Aluminator:
$4256 delivered to any location in the lower 48.

Charge it and be done with it!
You can make 800 back on your cylinder heads alone.

[Mike Poore]

What would you have him do, Zack?
The man said he can't afford a costly re-build and wants to keep enjoying the car. His pals are all signed up to help with the wrench, and they'll have a good time doing it.
Ed gets my respect for making do with what he's got, and most of all, sharing what he's gonna learn with the gang.
It's what we do, here. ;)

[Zack]

What would you have him do, Zack?
The man said he can't afford a costly re-build and wants to keep enjoying the car. His pals are all signed up to help with the wrench, and they'll have a good time doing it.
Ed gets my respect for making do with what he's got, and most of all, sharing what he's gonna learn with the gang.
It's what we do, here. ;)

Mike, apparently you have NOT been in the trenches of rebuilding Marauders like I have.

Take it from the KING of things going wrong, Bad Bad move putting a Band-Aid on an engine with 130k.


On a side note, there is a low mile Mach1 Shortblock for sale on Mach1Registry for $500 and I think its on the east coast somewhere.

[RF Overlord]

And if you have any misgivings about the tank of gas you have, add some octane booster, just in case.Sorry to hear of your loss, Ed...

......but it's been demonstrated time after time that OTC octane boost is totally worthless. At best, if you put in 2 full cans, it would have only raised the octane by 1...not enough to be useful.

[Glenn]

Yes, ZACK is completely correct. I have been in similar situations before and you are throwing good money after bad to only repair a 130,000 motor. At least buy a good used short block like the one Zack mentioned for $500 from a Mach 1. You would be FAR better off doing this then repair your old engine particularly if you and your friends can do some of the work. Just my $0.02

:flamer:

Glenn

[Local Boy]

Sorry to hear Ed....

Good luck with the re-build...

ALOHA

[KillJoy]

Yes, ZACK is completely correct. I have been in similar situations before and you are throwing good money after bad to only repair a 130,000 motor. At least buy a good used short block like the one Zack mentioned for $500 from a Mach 1. You would be FAR better off doing this then repair your old engine particularly if you and your friends can do some of the work. Just my $0.02

:flamer:

Glenn

I would agree.... you would probably have $500 in the parts and labor, if not more..... this would make for a "NEW" Shortblock, and if done correctly, could have you back up and running in one weekend!

KillJoy

[Blackmobile]

If you take a 130k motor out and replace a few pistons, then throw it back together, I will have ZERO respect for you in the future.

Tell you what, empty your wallet and cash your next paycheck...then light it on fire, cause thats what you will be doing.

Park the car until you can do it the RIGHT WAY :up:

OK, Now that we are exiting Fantasy Island, and getting back to the reallity of putting a daily driver back together. Nothing in this Marauder makes me think it was anywhere near giving up. So I will examine every option I can think of to get it back on it's feet/wheels, whatever!

Patch the bullit wound.....
Heart surger can be done later let's say at 200,000 miles

[Blackmobile]

Edit on the Aluminator:
$4256 delivered to any location in the lower 48.

Charge it and be done with it!
You can make 800 back on your cylinder heads alone.

Now I'm liking that idea!

[Raudermaster]

Sorry to hear that Ed! Glad to see you'll be doing the work to get her back and running.

[Blackmobile]

Mike, apparently you have NOT been in the trenches of rebuilding Marauders like I have.

Take it from the KING of things going wrong, Bad Bad move putting a Band-Aid on an engine with 130k.

If I thought I couldn't do it - I wouldn't do it

If I didn't think it could take the punishment - I wouldn't do it

If I didn't have the help of my friends - I couldn't do it

And if I had the money to do the right thing - I wouldn't do it

So, I'm not sootin this ole dog just yet


On a side note, there is a low mile Mach1 Shortblock for sale on Mach1Registry for $500 and I think its on the east coast somewhere.

I already have a used block, and I believe it's just in need of a piston...and rings....and gaskets.....and stud bolts.....and oil........and ...............



As for trenches, a whole is only as deep as you want to dig.

[John Nero]

call rick n miami(just an idea) work some thing out with him

[Zack]

OK, Now that we are exiting Fantasy Island, and getting back to the reallity of putting a daily driver back together. Nothing in this Marauder makes me think it was anywhere near giving up. So I will examine every option I can think of to get it back on it's feet/wheels, whatever!

Patch the bullit wound.....
Heart surger can be done later let's say at 200,000 miles

Im gonna tell you this...
Your car went south cause it detonated.

That means you dont know what detonation sounds like.

Now you are gonna put another weak motor in the car and history is gonna repeat itself.

Do yourself a favor and go big or go home! :up:

[STLR FN]

Sorry to hear bout the Blackmobile Ed.

Have you tried KarKraft? They usually have low mileage Marauder engines or short blocks.

http://www.karkraft.com/short_blocks.htm

[TAKEDOWN]

Keep us updated on the process, let us know your decision and the outcome of this big project to tackle...good luck!

[Blackmobile]

Im gonna tell you this...
Your car went south cause it detonated.

That means you dont know what detonation sounds like.

Now you are gonna put another weak motor in the car and history is gonna repeat itself.

Do yourself a favor and go big or go home! :up:


The up side of history repeating itself, you know what's going to happen, and what to do about it.

[Blackmobile]

Sorry to hear bout the Blackmobile Ed.

Have you tried KarKraft? They usually have low mileage Marauder engines or short blocks.

http://www.karkraft.com/short_blocks.htm


I try, but I keep ending up at the big blocks. :burnout:

there is one I like.

[magindat]

I try, but I keep ending up at the big blocks. :burnout:

there is one I like.

I don't envy you, Ed. You have a lot to process. Zack makes some good points (in his own way ;)). If you're gonna have to spend, spend as wisely as you can. John makes a good point, too. Rick may be a resource.

Chin up. Call me if/when you need anything!!!!

Rich

[TooManyFords]

I'm not going to say anyone in this thread is wrong. But if $$ is tight, then I would tear it down first to find out EXACTLY what the problem is. It might be something as simple as needing new rings. 5 minutes with a de-glazing ball and $50 for rings, bearings and gaskets and you're on the road.

Besides, you'll have learned how to R&R the cam timing chains!

:D

[magindat]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=628376

All aboard!!!!

[MarauderTJA]

Now I'm liking that idea!

Ed, we'll put our heads together and see what we can do that is cost effective and best plan for you. I would like to see you go forged and get it over with myself. Also, you have Al Pappitto close by as well as a lot of friends here in Florida and beyond. We'll get you up and running, count on it my friend.

[Blackmobile]

I'm not going to say anyone in this thread is wrong. But if $$ is tight, then I would tear it down first to find out EXACTLY what the problem is. It might be something as simple as needing new rings. 5 minutes with a de-glazing ball and $50 for rings, bearings and gaskets and you're on the road.

Besides, you'll have learned how to R&R the cam timing chains!

:D

Hey, someone See's it as I do. Correct, ever thing is speculative until I open it up.

As for the timing chains, I was talking about that last night. If I can't learn on someone else's car then I have to learn on mine.


I was told many years ago, if you're going to race um, be prepared to blow them up, and know how to fix um.

[magindat]

Ed, we'll put our heads together and see what we can do that is cost effective and best plan for you. I would like to see you go forged and get it over with myself. Also, you have Al Pappitto close by as well as a lot of friends here in Florida and beyond. We'll get you up and running, count on it my friend.

Al's shop is exactly 6 miles from my house. I'd be MORE than happy to help coordinate.

As always, my garage is your garage.

[RoyLPita]

call rick n miami(just an idea) work some thing out with him

That sounds like a good idea.

[Blackmobile]

Ed, we'll put our heads together and see what we can do that is cost effective and best plan for you. I would like to see you go forged and get it over with myself. Also, you have Al Pappitto close by as well as a lot of friends here in Florida and beyond. We'll get you up and running, count on it my friend.

Thanks Tom, I can hardly consentrate on work with this on my mind. At this point in time, I need to get the engine out.

[magindat]

I will have ZERO respect for you in the future... Park the car until you can do it the RIGHT WAY :up:

:cool: Then help...
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=628376

I love peer pressure!!! :D

[Blackmobile]

call rick n miami(just an idea) work some thing out with him

he's still mad at me for giving him those Buckeye Marauder stickers.

Come to think about it. The last thing Rick said to me was

"Don't blow it up now" When we all left dinner and headed towards I75

So that's where the kiss of death came from.

[magindat]

Come to think about it. The last thing Rick said to me was
"Don't blow it up now" When we all left dinner and headed towards I75
So that's where the kiss of death came from.

Then he owes you!!! :laugh:

[captain]

Zack
Last week someone brought up the aluminator and you ragged on it.
Didnt you say it was over priced or too soft or something?
Didnt you say skip that and do.......? What a mach block? Please refresh my memory.

[Zack]

Zack
Last week someone brought up the aluminator and you ragged on it.
Didnt you say it was over priced or too soft or something?
Didnt you say skip that and do.......? What a mach block? Please refresh my memory.


We were discussing the S/C version.

This is the NA version, but is fine for a blower.
100% forged, just high compression.

[sailsmen]

Ever since Katrina there is crappy gas in our area.

My street tune is minus 3*.

I suggest all S/C consider a street tune.

For the first time I am seeing Ethanol stickers on pumps. Considering in LA we have 25% of the nations oil and gas this is strange for me.

[Blackmobile]

Ever since Katrina there is crappy gas in our area.

My street tune is minus 3*.

I suggest all S/C consider a street tune.

For the first time I am seeing Ethanol stickers on pumps. Considering in LA we have 25% of the nations oil and gas this is strange for me.

This is the reason I suspected the gas down here. All you see is the Ethanol stickers on all the pumps, at least all the ones I've seen.

[Blackmobile]

I still have a O.E.M long block for sale.

PM sent!!!

[sconut1]

What is the rear engine cooling mod?

[juno]

Ed,

Sorry to hear about the loss. If you want to rebuild your block, I have a set of forged pistons/rods/crank (flat top pistons .020 over), arp main and head studs. I will email you details They have about 500 miles on them, took them out due to a bad rod bearing. Block work and bearings and you are good to go. I have some other parts also .

Gives you options Dude. Good luck!

Jay

[Blackmobile]

That's over half of my wish list. The .020 over piston concern me. But I'll take it up with the other wrench heads that will be involved. Thanks :up:

[MarauderTJA]

That's over half of my wish list. The .020 over piston concern me. But I'll take it up with the other wrench heads that will be involved. Thanks :up:

Ed, .020 over pistons is common for a re-build and what I did to my motor. No concern there at all. Cleans up the cylinder walls.

[Hotrauder]

Ever since Katrina there is crappy gas in our area.

My street tune is minus 3*.

I suggest all S/C consider a street tune.

For the first time I am seeing Ethanol stickers on pumps. Considering in LA we have 25% of the nations oil and gas this is strange for me.

Billy, Gubmint mandated as part of the misquided and totally stupid program to "Starve the Kids and Feed the Cars." There is nothing so simple that Washington cannot screw it up. We have always believed that when the price of petroleum products reached a high enough point the alternatives would be emerge, we forgot about the X factor...so since the Carter gas lines we have done nothing to develope independency. This is not just a fossil fuel problem it is a matter of national security. The clowns in Washington as so busy covering their collective asses and blaming everyone else that they are light years away from solving the problem. A pox on them all. Dennis...sorry for the rant but we are all going to see a lot more "BAD" gas.

[Blackmobile]

Why do I keep coming back to that thought of getting a tune to burn moonshine?

[MarauderTJA]

Why do I keep coming back to that thought of getting a tune to burn moonshine?

May be able to get another 200 RWHP from it:lol:. :hmmm: I know this guy in eastern Kentucky who........ah never mind.....

[Blackmobile]

Ed, .020 over pistons is common for a re-build and what I did to my motor. No concern there at all. Cleans up the cylinder walls.

Thanks for the reassurance. Next occation....Deinstall party.

[merc]

I am sure most of you with built motors can assist on laying down the blue print for making more power. I just want to remind everyone that we don't live in a perfect motoring world. One of the facts about engine building is time and money. When done right on a basic performance engine you want everything to work smoothly. Let's start by looking at the total package. With the mileage described the Heads, Transmission, and rear end should be considered. Additional cooling on the heads are not the only factor. This project can be extremely costly. Consider the end results. What are you getting for your money? Are you prepare to take a risk? Most on this site will rejoice in victory but fail to explain the pit falls. In reviewing all your options stay focused on your end results. There are many times I wish that I kept my Marauder stock. I have told that to several of my Marauder friends. :beer:

[Pops]

I am sure most of you with built motors can assist on laying down the blue print for making more power. I just want to remind everyone that we don't live in a perfect motoring world. One of the facts about engine building is time and money. When done right on a basic performance engine you want everything to work smoothly. Let's start by looking at the total package. With the mileage described the Heads, Transmission, and rear end should be considered. Additional cooling on the heads are not the only factor. This project can be extremely costly. Consider the end results. What are you getting for your money? Are you prepare to take a risk? Most on this site will rejoice in victory but fail to explain the pit falls. In reviewing all your options stay focused on your end results. There are many times I wish that I kept my Marauder stock. I have told that to several of my Marauder friends. :beer:

Mark this is the best advice put up yet! Slow down and make a plan or the money will get you down later when other parts start failing. It very easy to start a project like this and have the things you did not think about break you. I can tell you from my project on the GM that rebuilding an entire driveline and making it bullet proof as possible is very costly. More power also leads to more broken parts. Merc could fill us in on that. You can not beat a SC car like we have the the NA cars! The extra wear and tear plus heat make things much more fragile. The SC will also find the weak links in the drive line and have a major dinner out of your wallet. I guess what I am trying to say is slow down and have a very good plan in place that is within your budget. I am proud to be able to help with this project and consider Ed a good friend.

John :beer:

[MarauderTJA]

I am sure most of you with built motors can assist on laying down the blue print for making more power. I just want to remind everyone that we don't live in a perfect motoring world. One of the facts about engine building is time and money. When done right on a basic performance engine you want everything to work smoothly. Let's start by looking at the total package. With the mileage described the Heads, Transmission, and rear end should be considered. Additional cooling on the heads are not the only factor. This project can be extremely costly. Consider the end results. What are you getting for your money? Are you prepare to take a risk? Most on this site will rejoice in victory but fail to explain the pit falls. In reviewing all your options stay focused on your end results. There are many times I wish that I kept my Marauder stock. I have told that to several of my Marauder friends. :beer:

Certainly a good point Merc and I agree. It also depends on several other factors.

Who built the engine; how well was the "total package" researched; what are your expectations of the car; is it going to be a street car primarily or a race car.

Having pitfalls can and does occur, just part of messing with a stock combination. I have had several pitfalls along the road with my car over the past few years. But once cured, nothing is more satisfying to accomplish your personal goals. Do I wish I kept my car stock? Absolutely not. I have decided I will not put a roll bar in my car, it is 99% a street driven car with it being raced 1% maybe 2-3 times per year, maybe. If I want a competition race car, I will build one. Not likely to happen anytime soon.

You bring out several good points and certainly worth considering:up:.

[magindat]

He's got a fresh trans <10K in it.

With Juno's parts, Ed I'd say take it all to Al P. cuz he has the machine shop to take care of all the block boring and head decking issues. Also he's a dedicated 5.4/4.6 expert. I asked him if he'd be offended to use donated parts and he said no. He'd put it together RIGHT. I honestly think that witht he money and parts pledged and Al's expert work, that you're right there. He also recommended a .20 over bore if using your block, but if not, he's got a fresh iron block ready to go.

I totally respect and understand you want to do this yourself, but you just can't beat the level of experience that's been offerred to you. Also, I think he'd let you hang out for most of it.

[MarauderTJA]

He's got a fresh trans <10K in it.

With Juno's parts, Ed I'd say take it all to Al P. cuz he has the machine shop to take care of all the block boring and head decking issues. Also he's a dedicated 5.4/4.6 expert. I asked him if he'd be offended to use donated parts and he said no. He'd put it together RIGHT. I honestly think that witht he money and parts pledged and Al's expert work, that you're right there. He also recommended a .20 over bore if using your block, but if not, he's got a fresh iron block ready to go.

I totally respect and understand you want to do this yourself, but you just can't beat the level of experience that's been offerred to you. Also, I think he'd let you hang out for most of it.

I can personally testify to this statement. And my sig represents the quality of his work. If Al builds Ed's motor, I will have to start to sweat him beating me on the time slip page:lol:. But on the other hand, "bring it on Ed;)."

[merc]

He's got a fresh trans <10K in it.

He also recommended a .20 over bore if using your block, but if not, he's got a fresh iron block ready to go.



It doesn't take a genius to recommend a .20 bore. That's the minimum you need to refresh the cylinder walls. You simply can't put new rings in a block without honing the walls. You can also over bore to .30 but Al is not a fan of that diameter bore. Secondly you will not know if everything is done right in the first 30 days. I have seen some crazy stuff. The engine builder blame the tuner for the problem. The turner blames your driving style on a problem and everyone points the finger. The bottom line is who do you believe. Don't get me started. I have a Masters Degree in " Who Shot John".

[magindat]

It doesn't take a genius to recommend a .20 bore. That's the minimum you need to do to refresh the cylinder walls. You simply can't put new rings in a block without honing the walls. You can also over bore to .30 but Al is not a fan of that diameter bore. Secondly you will not know if everything is done right in the first 30 days. I have seen some crazy stuff. The engine builder blame the tuner for the problem. The turner blames your driving style on a problem and everyone points the finger. The bottom line is who do you believe. Don't get me started. I have a Masters Degree in " Who Shot John".

I wasn't saying he's a genius - but he sure seems like one on the 5.4/4.6. I was agreeing with your previous post.

I believe Ed is in a good place with trust. He's got the 'right' people (in many's opinion) lined up to help him out.

I'm sorry to hear you've been through the finger pointing. I know how it works since it's a good 50% of my job to get to the bottom of the finger pointing!!!

[merc]

I wasn't saying he's a genius - but he sure seems like one on the 5.4/4.6. I was agreeing with your previous post.

I believe Ed is in a good place with trust. He's got the 'right' people (in many's opinion) lined up to help him out.

I'm sorry to hear you've been through the finger pointing. I know how it works since it's a good 50% of my job to get to the bottom of the finger pointing!!!

Man, I wish I lived in Florida. You guys have a great deal of expertise and a pretty solid Marauder network. I have been extremely lucky to have Chris & Sherman Vining directly supporting my current project. I have also received tons of useful advice from this site. Building and maintaining these types of relationships are important. Ed, the best of luck with your project.

[magindat]

Man, I wish I lived in Florida. You guys have a great deal of expertise and a pretty solid Marauder network.

Come on down! We'd love to have ya!!

[Pops]

Marc go down for the winter picnic. I had a blast and hope to go again this coming winter. These guys will take good care of you!

[merc]

Marc go down for the winter picnic. I had a blast and hope to go again this coming winter. These guys will take good care of you!


Come on down! We'd love to have ya!!

I just might take you up on the offer. I need to get away from Washington D.C. for a couple of weeks. It really gets hot in these rubber hip boots. :lol:

[MarauderTJA]

Man, I wish I lived in Florida. You guys have a great deal of expertise and a pretty solid Marauder network. I have been extremely lucky to have Chris & Sherman Vining directly supporting my current project. I have also received tons of useful advice from this site. Building and maintaining these types of relationships are important. Ed, the best of luck with your project.

Mark, you could always move down here;). We would love to have you.

[Blackmobile]

As for putting hardened parts into my block reguardless who does it sounds like a winning combination. But on the otherhand, putting an already broken in stock motor sounds like a plan also. More and more, putting in an Aluminator engine sounds like putting in a NAME, and sounds like an option that should be saved for when I ever hit the lottery (this place and people makes me feel like I already have). As for the people who know me well, they know the only time I take it easy in the Marauder is when I'm closing the doors. I'm not trying to build a race car but I do drive it like one :rolleyes: , so the choices that are to be made will have that in mind. everything revolves around the cracking of the egg, so we will know more this weekend.

And what is the deal telling me now, that you can't beat on a SC Marauder like you can a NA Marauder :( ? Is that the reason I can't keep stock tires on this thing?

[Pops]

Sounds like it to me Ed. Just remember to let her cool off a little between blasts!

[MarauderTJA]

Probably removing that 25 lb weighted right shoe when you get in your Marauder would help too:lol:.

[Glenn]

Since your previous post indicates you are going with forged internal parts, I am sending you $100 for the rebuild fund. Good luck on the rebuild.

Glenn :burnout:

[KillJoy]

As for putting hardened parts into my block reguardless who does it sounds like a winning combination. But on the otherhand, putting an already broken in stock motor sounds like a plan also. More and more, putting in an Aluminator engine sounds like putting in a NAME, and sounds like an option that should be saved for when I ever hit the lottery (this place and people makes me feel like I already have). As for the people who know me well, they know the only time I take it easy in the Marauder is when I'm closing the doors. I'm not trying to build a race car but I do drive it like one :rolleyes: , so the choices that are to be made will have that in mind. everything revolves around the cracking of the egg, so we will know more this weekend.

And what is the deal telling me now, that you can't beat on a SC Marauder like you can a NA Marauder :( ? Is that the reason I can't keep stock tires on this thing?

If you decide to install an"already broken in stock motor", I would like my $100 back. The same with installing "new piston and rings".

Sorry.....

Now, if you are going to do it RIGHT, then by all means... it is yours :D

KillJoy

[Blackmobile]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/9/6/9/Photo0010.jpg

It get's worse. :mad2:

[Blackmobile]

THe good news is we got the engine out, with a lot of OOHs and AHHHs.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/9/6/9/DSCN0024.JPG

The bad news is didn't get a chance to take it apart. That will have to wait until Monday.

[John Nero]

THe good news is we got the engine out, with a lot of OOHs and AHHHs.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/9/6/9/DSCN0024.JPG

The bad news is didn't get a chance to take it apart. Thatwill have to wait until Monday.
that's one big door stopper

[RoyLPita]

that's one big door stopper

Or "boat anchor"!!!!!!! :jk: :D

[sailsmen]

There's a reason Dennis and I stopped at 516RWHP.

I drive 20K per year and make 40 passes. I need to get 75K and 120 passes out of it.

6 months or a year from now I might consider upping the RWHP. 580 is easily obtainable.

The question is will the rest hold and how much margin for bad gas or a 100* day?

I suggest unless you can afford to put it back together again or lay it up, tune it for the same HP level or you will end up having to sell a boken car.

[Blackmobile]

There's a reason Dennis and I stopped at 516RWHP.

I drive 20K per year and make 40 passes. I need to get 75K and 120 passes out of it.

6 months or a year from now I might consider upping the RWHP. 580 is easily obtainable.

The question is will the rest hold and how much margin for bad gas or a 100* day?

I suggest unless you can afford to put it back together again or lay it up, tune it for the same HP level or you will end up having to sell a boken car.

If keeping it a stock engine, I would agree, 470 RWHP is quite enough for daily driving but if I put back hardened part, you don't expect it to stay at that Number? My tranny is rated at ~700HP.

[sailsmen]

The following;
Driveshaft
Axels
Control Arms
Ltd Slip
Fuel system - BAP or additional pump
Exhaust
Slicks & Wheels
Brakes.

I got the impression you did not have the money to turn it into an "Extreme Marauder".:confused: ("Lean funds dictate a replacement or repair of the affected parts.")

Good luck.

[Blackmobile]

The following;
Driveshaft
Axels
Control Arms
Ltd Slip
Fuel system - BAP or additional pump
Exhaust
Slicks & Wheels
Brakes.

I got the impression you did not have the money to turn it into an "Extreme Marauder".:confused: ("Lean funds dictate a replacement or repair of the affected parts.")

Good luck.

*Driveshaft - not needed unless I intend to go over 125 all the time. But that's what the DS Loop is for...just in case.
*Axles - I have a spare set when the ones on the MM go south, one already has been replaced though
*Control Arms - I'm quite comfortable with the big car feel, even to put it on 2 when going hog wild. I've done it with a Electra 225, and got chewed out when I got home, some neighbors saw it happen and told my Mom.:depress:
*Ltd Slip - done, when the 4.10's were put in.
*BAP - Done, waiting for the newer model from DR.
*Exhaust - Dr's Cobra exhaust and deleted tips
*Tires - They keep melting off spare set sitting next to me now.
*Brakes - they work but they do need replacing.

And after spending 5k on a air 2 air kit, and $$ on subsequent tune, just since January, you can see how I'm Mod Poor for the rest of the year.

But this is how I got to the #2 spot for NA Marauders on the timeslip page.

[Blackmobile]

Well we finally got the engine apart and here is the reason I had so much blowby.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/9/6/9/Photo0013.jpg

It appears a piece of the piston broke off and went out the exhaust.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/9/6/9/Photo0014.jpg


It also appears to have dammaged the cylinder wall with a nice divit along with some smaller scratches.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/9/6/9/divitincylinderwall.jpg

[Zack]

We ran Macs car like that for a while and still ran 12's :D

[Glenn]

Unreal picture of the broken piston. What again are your feelings on what happening?

Glenn

[Zack]

At least your block is good!

[Zack]

Unreal picture of the broken piston. What again are your feelings on what happening?

Glenn

Only detonation causes that!

[Blackmobile]

Here are the heads

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/9/6/9/1-4inthefront5-8intheback.jpg

and here is the infoamous cylinder 8 valves

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/9/6/9/Cylinder8valves.jpg

Compared to a good one cylinder 1

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/9/6/9/Cylinder1valves.jpg


The rest of the pix are here:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/browseimages.php?c=69

[Blackmobile]

At least your block is good!

Block is probably toast, there is a divit in cylinder 8 that appears to be deeper than .030.

[Blackmobile]

Unreal picture of the broken piston. What again are your feelings on what happening?

Glenn

Bad gas and detination!

[Blackmobile]

There is a very deep divit circled by yellow and the scratches & gouges which are pretty deep in Blue

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/9/6/9/divitincylinderwallcustom.jpg

[magindat]

This is exactly as Al P. described and showed me. The scratches are where the piston ring 'welded' itself to the bore. The scratch is either the chip of piston scratchng or as Al describes, the 1300+ degree 'blow-by' of the detonation torch cuts the wall as it makes a 'divot' as it cuts.

I'll print these and bring them to Al today.

The heads don't look bad at all compared to some he showed me.

[TooManyFords]

Block is probably toast, there is a divit in cylinder 8 that appears to be deeper than .030.

It can be sleeved cheaper than paying for a new block.

[FordNut]

*Driveshaft - not needed unless I intend to go over 125 all the time. But that's what the DS Loop is for...just in case.


Off topic, but that's not really true. With 4.10 gears the stock shaft has been known to cause problems with tailshaft seal leaks and tranny failure with a single high-speed adventure.

[magindat]

It can be sleeved cheaper than paying for a new block.

A freshly honed iron block is only $150.

[magindat]

Off topic, but that's not really true. With 4.10 gears the stock shaft has been known to cause problems with tailshaft seal leaks and tranny failure with a single high-speed adventure.

True. It happened to MillsMarauder (JJ).

[merc]

A freshly honed iron block is only $150.

It's interesting that people throw around numbers like it's the best deal. Not all honed blocks are the same. Measuring the cylinders are very important. Then matching the correct bore diameter with a set of pistons and rings. It is possible to have 6 standard pistons and two over bore pistons in the same block. SVT shipped motors like this all the time. I have 7 grade B pistons and one grade C piston in my motor.

Installation Tips for Light Alloy Cylinders

Light alloy cylinders (e.g. with bearing surfaces made of CROMAL®, NIKASIL®, SILUMAL®) are divided into several grades due to small fitting clearances at standard cylinder diameter. The number of groups, as well as the respective diameter ranges, is tabulated in our catalog.

The example below, showing five diameter grades, illustrates the subdivisions for the standard diameter 39mm:

Cylinder diameter (mm) Piston diameter (mm)
A 38.98 38.96
B 38.99 38.97
C 39.00 38.98
D 39.01 38.99
E 39.02 39.00


The fitting clearance is 0.020mm in each case.

The piston and cylinder must correspond to the same diameter grade before the piston is fitted and the cylinder installed.

[TooManyFords]

A freshly honed iron block is only $150.

and a cylinder sleeve is $75. I'd save the $$ for a good oil pump!

:D

[magindat]

Thank you, sir!!

[magindat]

It's interesting that people throw around numbers like it's the best deal. Not all honed blocks are the same. Measuring the cylinders are very important. Then matching the correct bore diameter with a set of pistons and rings. It is possible to have 6 standard pistons and two over bore pistons in the same block. SVT shipped motors like this all the time. I have 7 grade B pistons and one grade C piston in my motor.

Installation Tips for Light Alloy Cylinders

Light alloy cylinders (e.g. with bearing surfaces made of CROMAL®, NIKASIL®, SILUMAL®) are divided into several grades due to small fitting clearances at standard cylinder diameter. The number of groups, as well as the respective diameter ranges, is tabulated in our catalog.

The example below, showing five diameter grades, illustrates the subdivisions for the standard diameter 39mm:

Cylinder diameter (mm) Piston diameter (mm)
A 38.98 38.96
B 38.99 38.97
C 39.00 38.98
D 39.01 38.99
E 39.02 39.00


The fitting clearance is 0.020mm in each case.

The piston and cylinder must correspond to the same diameter grade before the piston is fitted and the cylinder installed.

Awesome info.

The number I 'threw around' is from the only source I personally would get such a thing from and that's Al Papito. The number was thrown because I was hoping John would reply on cost to re-sleeve so I could help evaluate cost vs value when trying to get the best work and best value for Ed.

[merc]

and a cylinder sleeve is $75. I'd save the $$ for a good oil pump!

:D

I agree. This motor can be rebuild. Oil pump upgrade was number one in my rebuild.

[magindat]

I agree. This motor can be rebuild. Oil pump upgrade was number on in my rebuild.

I think he included it when I visited the first time, but I'll be sure to ask, Thank you.

I'm off to see the wizard. Let ya'll know what I learn when I have a chance!

[Blackmobile]

It can be sleeved cheaper than paying for a new block.


A freshly honed iron block is only $150.


That's music to my ears, and I'd rather stay with the Aluminum stock block, if the cost is relative to purchasing an iron block.

[merc]

Awesome info.

The number I 'threw around' is from the only source I personally would get such a thing from and that's Al Papito. The number was thrown because I was hoping John would reply on cost to re-sleeve so I could help evaluate cost vs value when trying to get the best work and best value for Ed.

John is a great source of information. When he speaks I take notes. I am still thinking about the TH400 he recommended to me last month.

[MarauderTJA]

Awesome info.

The number I 'threw around' is from the only source I personally would get such a thing from and that's Al Papito. The number was thrown because I was hoping John would reply on cost to re-sleeve so I could help evaluate cost vs value when trying to get the best work and best value for Ed.

Rich, you need to take the motor/block and all to Al. Let him decide what needs to be done. Pictures won't cut it..

[TooManyFords]

You just have to check around with local machine shops. Sleeving a cylinder is a common task since all aluminum blocks are sleeved. If there was damage to a complete bank or the crank failure, then I would junk a block. What I've seen so far indicates the simple procedure as probably being the best.

Again, I haven't looked at the rest of the cylinders to see if there is enough damage to warrant a new block. That and the fact that there really isn't too much need to go cast iron from the indications of the potential build. I only threw that out there in case another aluminum block was being selected.

Now, if severe duty is planned and boost+n2o, then I would get an Iron block and send ME the old one! (grin!)

Just trying to help, as always.

Cheers!

John

(remember, Zack says I'm a smart man and should be listened to. he's right!)

[Blackmobile]

Off topic, but that's not really true. With 4.10 gears the stock shaft has been known to cause problems with tailshaft seal leaks and tranny failure with a single high-speed adventure.

I have high speed adventures on a daily basis, no vibration, and tranny tailshaft issues. If it ain't broke it don't get fixed.

[Blackmobile]

You just have to check around with local machine shops. Sleeving a cylinder is a common task since all aluminum blocks are sleeved. If there was damage to a complete bank or the crank failure, then I would junk a block. What I've seen so far indicates the simple procedure as probably being the best.

Again, I haven't looked at the rest of the cylinders to see if there is enough damage to warrant a new block. That and the fact that there really isn't too much need to go cast iron from the indications of the potential build. I only threw that out there in case another aluminum block was being selected.

Now, if severe duty is planned and boost+n2o, then I would get an Iron block and send ME the old one! (grin!)

Just trying to help, as always.

Cheers!

John

(remember, Zack says I'm a smart man and should be listened to. he's right!)



I've shown the pix of cylinder 8 with the damage, but all the other cylinder are totally unmarked. That's why their pictures weren't taken.

I can say the next engine will go through extreme duty, but not severe duty.

[Blackmobile]

Rich, you need to take the motor/block and all to Al. Let him decide what needs to be done. Pictures won't cut it..

We hear ya Tom, but we're just sharing all the information gathered with the masses and to give Al a little heads up to the condition of my engine. I expect to bring the heads and block up to him but it's sure easier to move around when it's in pieces.

[magindat]

Rich, you need to take the motor/block and all to Al. Let him decide what needs to be done. Pictures won't cut it..

I took him the pictures. He's on board with this rebuild and is in the spirit of everyone here. i told him about the fund raiser and his reply was "maybe there's hope after all", referring to decent, kind and generous people.

Pictures helped over and above my initial description. Of course, no promises until he gets the block and heads. Al has been very kind and patient with this. Keep in mind, this guy builds $20K race engines. He is VERY kind to help at this 'grass roots' level and speak with me with an attitude of helping.

I'm working with Ed to get the motor up here.

Tom, I'm thankful of your good relationship with Al. He's a really cool guy, and an obvious expert on these motors.

Thanx all, for your help.

[MarauderTJA]

You just have to check around with local machine shops. Sleeving a cylinder is a common task since all aluminum blocks are sleeved. If there was damage to a complete bank or the crank failure, then I would junk a block. What I've seen so far indicates the simple procedure as probably being the best.

Again, I haven't looked at the rest of the cylinders to see if there is enough damage to warrant a new block. That and the fact that there really isn't too much need to go cast iron from the indications of the potential build. I only threw that out there in case another aluminum block was being selected.

Now, if severe duty is planned and boost+n2o, then I would get an Iron block and send ME the old one! (grin!)


Just trying to help, as always.

Cheers!

John

(remember, Zack says I'm a smart man and should be listened to. he's right!)



I have both John, boost (18 lbs) and N2O (100 shot) and the Aluminum block works out fine. No need for a iron block really.....aluminum blocks work out fine as long as you apply "reasonable boost and N20." Now anything above what I am using may be considered "unreasonable." And I do not consider myself a dummy either...:lol:

[Aren Jay]

I had a dream, I bought a high mileage Marauder Blue and Flint, from in the states and shipped it to Dennis for a new engine refit and SC, and had Dennis give Blackmobile its used engine core.

Then I woke up, to find I still have no money.

:(

[Blackmobile]

I had a dream, I bought a high mileage Marauder Blue and Flint, from in the states and shipped it to Dennis for a new engine refit and SC, and had Dennis give Blackmobile its used engine core.

Then I woke up, to find I still have no money.

:(

Get out of my dreams.:lol: