That annoying 'Dead Spot' with a PI Converter

[Zack]

What prompted me to post this was Cruztaker's insistence on having the fix ...(that was corrected at some point)... rolled over into the new Vortech tune.

It was no problem at all.

Anytime someone tells you they had it corrected in the tune, that translates to the converter is no longer locking up at WOT.

Sure it will cost a few hp, but the problem is fixed.

If anyone knows how to fix it another way, PLEASE tell us! :beer:

[Eric91Z]

Can you elaborate a little more on the TC locked vs. unlocked during WOT and benefits and down sides to each in general. I am looking just to gain an understanding, not to start wars on tuning choices.

I ask just because I have two tunes, for two different cars, from two different tuners - one that locks the TC and one that doesn't. I am just wondering what some of the accepted theories are as to why or why not to do that?

I know gas mileage affect is one, but any others?

[merc]

What prompted me to post this was Cruztaker's insistence on having the fix ...(that was corrected at some point)... rolled over into the new Vortech tune.

It was no problem at all.

Anytime someone tells you they had it corrected in the tune, that translates to the converter is no longer locking up at WOT.

Sure it will cost a few hp, but the problem is fixed.

If anyone knows how to fix it another way, PLEASE tell us! :beer:

You need to call Darrin.

[Zack]

You need to call Darrin.

HIS converter does not do it, just the PI.

Do you know something I dont?

[TooManyFords]

It is in the tune. There are settings in PRP where you can see the trans is telling the engine to reduce the torque during the lock/unlock. Just turn this off.

John

[merc]

Zack you have me on the spot now. I am too old remember all the SCT changes, but it has something to do with calculations in vehicle weight and load. Applied pressure is apart of the equation also.

[OneBADLsE]

Anytime someone tells you they had it corrected in the tune, that translates to the converter is no longer locking up at WOT.

Sure it will cost a few hp, but the problem is fixed.




I'd much rather not have the TC lock up on WOT. Even if what you say is true that you lose some HP, locking up WOT should cut some time off your traps (if im not mistaken).

[Zack]

It is in the tune. There are settings in PRP where you can see the trans is telling the engine to reduce the torque during the lock/unlock. Just turn this off.

John

All SCT tunes do what you just described.

[ctrlraven]

I still have my annoying "dead spot". It happens somewhere between 50-63mph. I'll see where it's at exactly on my way home.

I was using your regular street tune with user option Revs Per Mile corrected and the 255/50-16 drag radials. This is not the RaceONLY tune you sent me with running the drag radials.
PI 3500
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Sp-thPZ3wzA
Sp-thPZ3wzA

[TooManyFords]

I still have my annoying "dead spot". It happens somewhere between 50-63mph. I'll see where it's at exactly on my way home.

I was using your regular street tune with user option Revs Per Mile corrected and the 255/50-16 drag radials. This is not the RaceONLY tune you sent me with running the drag radials.
PI 3500
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Sp-thPZ3wzA
Sp-thPZ3wzA


That looks like more than a simple fix to me. It wasn't during a shift and it certainly didn't sound like the converter tried to lock in second gear. It would have to have a lot of options datalogged to see why it lost power right there. I know mine never did that either.

[shrug]

John

[merc]

Dude you have a ***** load of lights on the panel. What's up with that?

[TooManyFords]

I was going to mention that too! (:))

[CRUZTAKER]

It really was a hassle.

Lidio made adjustments in my SCT and Zack finally saw the changes for himself when he tweaked my tune for a blower.

At this point, I wonder why I went with the Stallion...oh yeah...I got for $600 delivered. :P

Here is another video with better sound.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/misc.php?do=downloadfile&i=13360

[Glenn]

I must admit that my 3000 PI TC runs perfectly. It was installed over 3 years. I do not even know I have a TC it runs so smooth. No feeling of any issues with lock-up. I wonder if the problem is in the unit itself. I know you do not want to remove it, but it may not be a tune issue at all.

I would call PI to ask their opinion: #901-466-0267

Glenn :burnout:

[Blackened300a]

I had that same bog on the dyno like you guys with the PI convertor. Sal at PSP tuned it out and now the TC locks up at around 80mph. Ill try to take a vid tonight 0-90mph

[ctrlraven]

That looks like more than a simple fix to me. It wasn't during a shift and it certainly didn't sound like the converter tried to lock in second gear. It would have to have a lot of options datalogged to see why it lost power right there. I know mine never did that either.

[shrug]

John
When I ran Zack's special tune for my 16" drag radials I didn't notice anything cause it was corrected to 3.90 for effective rear gear. I guess it might have something to do with the stall being 3500, running stock 3.55 gears and larger rear tire for an effective rear gear of 3.50.


Dude you have a ***** load of lights on the panel. What's up with that? Turned Air off, O/D off and BRAKE and ABS came on because I was running a 255/50-16 drag radial with just the speedo correction not actual tune for them.

[Darkside]

I'd much rather not have the TC lock up on WOT. Even if what you say is true that you lose some HP, locking up WOT should cut some time off your traps (if im not mistaken).

At least on my TBSS, having the converter lock up before the finish line INCREASED the trap speed a couple miles per hour.

[OneBADLsE]

I had that same bog on the dyno like you guys with the PI convertor. Sal at PSP tuned it out and now the TC locks up at around 80mph. Ill try to take a vid tonight 0-90mph


You have a video here when you raced me.

If you listen closely you'll hear when it shifts into 3rd gear the TC lockup which is around 80

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GG3y25jhtiw

[Blackened300a]

You have a video here when you raced me.

If you listen closely you'll hear when it shifts into 3rd gear the TC lockup which is around 80

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GG3y25jhtiw

Too many cars out tonight by the park and up at prep so I couldn't safely do a 0-90 run. But that video points it out, it came in at around 80mph so I guess that helps the traps at the right time.

[ctrlraven]

Yep I could hear the slight bog.

[red]

My PI 3500 has the same behavior when locking.

[ts-pa]

My PI 3000 TC does the same thing. Dennis Reinhart adjusted something in the tune & it drives much better than before.

[ctrlraven]

My PI 3500 has the same behavior when locking.

Sad to say good but I'm glad I'm not the only one now lol.

It still does it even with 4.10 gears?

[offroadking208]

my CVPI does the exact same thing but its around 40-45 and REALLY annoying. So a tune can fix it huh.....

[OneBADLsE]

^^^ The Merc does lockup during the 1-2 WOT just as your CVPI. And its sucha sloppy bog too.

[Blackened300a]

my CVPI does the exact same thing but its around 40-45 and REALLY annoying. So a tune can fix it huh.....

It can be tuned out. There is a solution.

[ctrlraven]

So what is it in the tune that fixes it cause I would love for it not to do that with daily driving. Race only tune I could care less about.

[Blackened300a]

So what is it in the tune that fixes it cause I would love for it not to do that with daily driving. Race only tune I could care less about.

The tune I sent you a few months ago has my TC lockup scedule in it. You can open the tune and adjust your tune for the same schedule.

[mpearce]

Interesting thread. Ive had my PI 3000 torque converter in for over a year, and 1000 miles, and I've never had that hesitation, or bog. My Marauder runs smooth, and clean through all the shifts. I have definitely heard it on other Marauders though, and always wondered what it was. When I had my torque converter installed, I had my headers and exhaust work done at the same time. When my Marauder was done, it was immediately dyno tuned at Lidio's, and it never did that on the dyno, and it's never done that on the street, or on the track. So then, is my converter locked, or unlocked?

-Mat

[OneBADLsE]

Here was a drive i did in a bone stock 03 Marauder. It had no tune at all. From what i can tell, there was NO TC lockup at all. It did however lock up through normal driving.

Take a look :

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.indi vidual&VideoID=27230427

[Zack]

Interesting thread. Ive had my PI 3000 torque converter in for over a year, and 1000 miles, and I've never had that hesitation, or bog. My Marauder runs smooth, and clean through all the shifts. I have definitely heard it on other Marauders though, and always wondered what it was. When I had my torque converter installed, I had my headers and exhaust work done at the same time. When my Marauder was done, it was immediately dyno tuned at Lidio's, and it never did that on the dyno, and it's never done that on the street, or on the track. So then, is my converter locked, or unlocked?

-Mat

If Lidio tuned it, I would bet its unlocked

[ctrlraven]

The tune I sent you a few months ago has my TC lockup scedule in it. You can open the tune and adjust your tune for the same schedule.
It wouldn't work for me cause it was coded for your pcm code.


Zack so is there a way to only have the converter lock up in 4th gear?

Mine will lock up under light gas load at 50mph. Could you adjust my tune for it to lock up above 60mph and only in 4th gear?

[Zack]

It wouldn't work for me cause it was coded for your pcm code.


Zack so is there a way to only have the converter lock up in 4th gear?

Mine will lock up under light gas load at 50mph. Could you adjust my tune for it to lock up above 60mph and only in 4th gear?

Im pretty sure it does what you are saying, we are talking about WOT here.

[CKMustangCobra]

I always thought having the TC locked during WOT was the way to go... all the engines power is directly transfered to the input shaft.

Others will argue that the TC can multiply the TQ at a few HP sacrifice and never lock up at WOT.

Both ways will solve this bog problem... and I think having the TC locked during a 1/4 mile run would yield a faster ET and a slightly lower trap speed.

Just my opinion, I'm not a tuner. I actually wish I had $400 to blow on a tuner right now... I'm really sick of the stock shift points.

[High-C]

I actually wish I had $400 to blow on a tuner right now... I'm really sick of the stock shift points.

It's the best $400 bucks that you'll ever spend... hands down. :banana2:

[Bradley G]

I think that is part of the reason Lidios' tune allows the transmission to live a long life at the level of abuse/racing.

[CKMustangCobra]

It's the best $400 bucks that you'll ever spend... hands down. :banana2:
Believe me buddie.... if I had $400 that's what I'd buy.

I've been looking for a used one too.

[Vortech347]

In that video do you realize every possible warning light on your dash is on. You may want to fix a few things. :)

[Zack]

In that video do you realize every possible warning light on your dash is on. You may want to fix a few things. :)

That is what happens when you command Traction Control to be off..... (in the tune)
It shuts down the ABS system, inturn illuminating EVERYTHING!

[Vortech347]

Serious?! wow...

But I think their Air Ride light was on too.

[ctrlraven]

That is what happens when you command Traction Control to be off..... (in the tune)
It shuts down the ABS system, inturn illuminating EVERYTHING!
I wasn't using the RaceOnly tune you made which corrected the RevsPerMile with running the drag radials. I was still using my normal street tune you made so I only made the adjustment to the speedo. The RaceOnly tune you made gave me no warning lights at all since it was correct.


Yeah Nitrous SSC my air suspension light was on cause I always turn it off when I race.