Supercharger Dyno Results

[Zack]

I'm going to keep this short and sweet,
but power numbers and holding on to the wheel for dear life do not lie.... In Michigan or Florida.

438.0 rwhp
390.4 rwtq

Do I really need to say more?

Call me for my testimonial anytime

708-476-2647

[Bigdogjim]

So when you coming to Phila. and do mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Put wheels on that tool box...............

I'll buy you a cheesestake!!!!!!!!!!!!!


All kidding around aside Zack Great job.:D :D

See you in Memphis:beer: :bows: :banana: :banana2:

[TripleTransAm]

Jesus...

550 hp at the crank.

On 4.6 liters.

Through an automatic.

with >20 mpg fuel consumption on the highway.

And all the safety you could possibly ever want or need.

Welcome to the Good Old Days....

[duhtroll]

And not only that but Zack is a great guy who volunteered his time to help a noob like myself with his Stage I MM, as well as others.

I really enjoyed meeting some of the Chicago crew - Zack, Mac were a great help in just talking about stuff so that I could absorb. Wheeler and I were geeting to think we would be the only MMS there until you guys pulled in. As it was we were two of only 4 vehicles all day without SC.

Mine came to 260RWHP for a Stage I (no pullies) and 5600 miles on it at the time of the dyno. Torque came out to 280. I was happy - now I just need to find a calculator for the reverse equation to find flywheel HP - my head says something like 347 but I am a musician for a reason. :lol:

Got some nice pics of the Marauders (and Mustangs). As soon as I can remember how/figure out how to post them I will. Also got some stills with audio of the revving that if the size limits allow I will post them.

Watched a couple 500+ RWHP 'stangs and one monster lightning that had at least 600 - forget the real #. One word: earplugs.

The wedding across the street - I just felt sorry for them!

People don't lie when they say some of the nicest people you will ever meet are on this board. :up:

Thanks,
-A

[SergntMac]

I was there in Rock Island with Zack and Mark[N4Ogl] watching this awesome event unfold. We were all a bit nervous, once a sweet Thunderbird SC trailered from Nebraska broke on the dyno, the stories of breakage ruled the day.

By the time we strapped Zack's prisine MM with his new (less that 24 hours after install completion) Reinhart/Vortech Centrifical supercharger kit on the dyno, we were all sweating.

Amazing. Simply amazing, as this whole past week has been amazing. From the first UPS delivery of a few boxes from Reinhart, to the proof of a DynoJet printout. Bolt on the finest do-it-yourself kit anyone will ever produce for the MM, and build yourself a real competitive street machine.

A while back here, someone coined the phrase "supercharger wars." Well, IMHO, there was never a war between centrifical and roots styles of supercharging. The differences between the two styles are remarkable, and each has earned it's own reputation many years ago. Only someone who doesn't know much about cars, would entertain the concept of a "supercharger war." When you're desktop racing, watch your turns. It's a long drop to the floor.

The "war," as it may, or, may not have existed in your eyes, is now over too. The evidence here is clear and undisputable. If you want to go fast in your MM, and you want to get there quick and cheap, buy the most popular supercharger on the market today, Vortech. And if you are DYI minded, buy the only kit available right now, for your MM. If you need help with the install, Reinhart an help, he's estrablishing local install help. If you're in the Chicagoland region, Zack is your guy.

IMHO, this is another "no-brainer" from Florida.

-30-

End of story.

[martyo]

Zack: Congrats Man!! Congrats!!!!

[gonzo50]

WOW ! :eek: You have some serious numbers there Zack, sure would like to see it tearing up the quarter mile track, can you say "high 11's". :bows:

[Dennis Reinhart]

We will both test our cars with the 18" oem tires, I will do this Wednsday, I also have 18" Nittos, the car will never go 11's on the stock 18" tires at this RWHP range. High to mid 12's, either way the car is so responsive with our new tuning its just ubelievable. I cant wait to finish the new motor and kit with the T Trim, the car will go 10's.

[studio460]

500+ HP at the crank!!!!! OMFG!!!!! Great work, Zack, Dennis!!!

[Dennis Reinhart]

Originally posted by NBC Shooter
500+ HP at the crank!!!!! OMFG!!!!! Great work, Zack, Dennis!!!


No its better 500 to the wheels is like 600 to the crank

[chapel1]

Congrat's to you Zack,very impressive!

[BillyGman]

you're making me drool here just at the thought of all that power. Is there any certain RPM when you begin to feel the difference, or is the increase in power very noticeable right from the off-idle point???? I'm no expert on Superchargers, but I heard someone say one time that many S/Cers do not make more power immediately off the line. I don't know if that's true though........

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by duhtroll
Mine came to 260RWHP for a Stage I (no pullies) and 5600 miles on it at the time of the dyno. Torque came out to 280. I was happy - now I just need to find a calculator for the reverse equation to find flywheel HP - my head says something like 347 but I am a musician for a reason.


With the currently accepted 20% drivetrain losses we seem to experience, you're looking at about 325 at the crank, a nice increase from the ~300 stock output.

Musician, eh? I'm a bit of a music freak myself... stringed electric instruments, mostly, learning keyboard and eventually would like to home in on the drums. Will play anything from ZZtop to Abba to Glenn Miller to Metallica to B52s to ... etc.etc.etc.

[Zack]

Originally posted by BillyGman
you're making me drool here just at the thought of all that power. Is there any certain RPM when you begin to feel the difference, or is the increase in power very noticeable right from the off-idle point???? I'm no expert on Superchargers, but I heard someone say one time that many S/Cers do not make more power immediately off the line. I don't know if that's true though........

I can provide you the answer here.
Many say the only way to increase low end torque or 'the noticeable feel' of increased low end torque is through roots supercharging. Well, unless you drive my car, I cannot disprove this statement for anyone. The invitation to drive my car is open to everyone and I provided my phone # at the beginning of this thread.
When I pulled off the dyno onto the street for the first WOT test drive, the combination of the car going sideways for hundreds of feet along with Marauder and Mustang enthusiasts cheering in disbelief made every penny and minute working on the car worth it, to say the least.
I have driven Marauders fitted with every S/C kit available to date. Nothing next to centrifugal supercharging comes close to the results my car produced. Im not bragging about my car, it is what it is, period. Vortech packs the punch at both the low and high end. It also allows you to drive conservatively to the grocery store and beat up on the ricers in a moments notice. You want a smoky burnout? Floor it, you wont find better results anywhere.
There are members on this site who will only talk about supercharging, and others seriously considering it.
To those making up your mind, please consider this:
What route of supercharging will provide you with multiple tech support lines to call?
What kit has been around for years and constantly proves itself?
Which kit will complement the stroked motor youre gonna put in two years from now?
Which kit can you get parts overnight from if need be?
Which kit has a full time dyno tuner making improvements for the car?
Which supplier has a passion for the car?

I know the answer to all of these questions. What I dont have is a license to be a supercharger consultant.
I have the experience.
Choose wisely

[BillyGman]

for your reply Zack...........I might decide to take you up on that. U DA MAN.......

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by BillyGman
Is there any certain RPM when you begin to feel the difference, or is the increase in power very noticeable right from the off-idle point?

Rock Island was a typical "dyno day." Hurry up and wait. We arrived shortly after noon, and didn't get near the dyno until after 10 PM. Meanwhile, we spent this considerable free time driving each other's cars, giving joy rides to others, and generally running around the Rock. The "performance" you speak of, seems instantly available now, and it is available very early on in WOT acceleration. I know this sounds contradictory to the common experience in roots vs. centrifical, but I haven't a way to explain it better. Better plan on that test drive.


Originally posted by BillyGman
I heard someone say one time that many S/Cers do not make more power immediately off the line. I don't know if that's true though...

Yes, there is a "lag" factor to deal with in the centrifical design, the "spool up" will always be there. Minimizing that time is critical to performance, and I think Zack has it dialed in. It's not a stop-watch issue anymore, best to figure out some electronic timer solution to measure this lag now. From the passenger seat, it's my impression there is more time (against the clocks) lost to wheel spin than spool up. The differences between centrifical and roots style superchargers under WOT, is quite a narrow argument now, now that we can brake torque into the boost and launch with full power.

[Logan]

Logan....needs....super...char ger...now...can't....resist... much...longer...:)

[RF Overlord]

'Splain something to me:

I always thought that the infamous "turbo lag" was caused by the time it took to get the exhaust gas velocity up and to overcome the inertia in the turbine wheel to get it spooled up to where it would begin making significant boost. I further thought that ALL superchargers were immune to this lag due to their being mechanically driven by the crankshaft, so they would make immediate boost...are you saying that the centrifugal types all have some lag vs. the Rootes-type? Why?

[jgc61sr2002]

Originally posted by Logan
Logan....needs....super...char ger...now...can't....resist... much...longer...:) Go for it Logan.:up:

[Dennis Reinhart]

Because roots blowers spool up quicker and develop boost more quickly, and raise IAT this can be a bad thing when you have 10/1 comp and hypertectic pistons that's why you are limited to how much boost can be applied. Now this is also dependent on how eficient the roots blower after cooler is. The same is true with the Vortech, but with the proper set up gears exhaust and tuning this blower has very little lag, while at the same time still being safe, right now this kit is making is making over 30 RWHP with each pound of boost this is amazing while at the same time maintaining an IAT of about 10 degrees over ambient out side air this is also amazing, if the car spooled up any quicker you would have no traction or tires LOL.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
'I further thought that ALL superchargers were immune to this lag due to their being mechanically driven by the crankshaft, so they would make immediate boost...


Boost is supercharger-speed related. So a supercharger spinning at idle is probably not going to be putting out 8 psi. So you're still going to need to spool up the engine to get the supercharger pumping out max psi, but I suspect with the MM's high-stall torque converter, it's much less of an issue than with most other automatic cars. :D

Related-note: does anyone know at what RPM the Vortech is putting out max pressure?

[Zack]

I will look at the boost gauge more closely the next time I drive the car. Right now it is raining in Chicago.
Since it has been so hard to go in a straight line, LOL
I have not paid much attention to the boost.
I heard diapers were going to be standard issue in the kit from now on!
Right Dennis?

[Dennis Reinhart]

I am seeing 6 PSI at 6000 RPM at shift point, and we can add some pads in the kit LOL. Here are the compresor maps.


http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/s-trim_v2_map.gif

[Zack]

Good job Dennis

A pad would cover the 'hole' on that compressor map perfectly.

Wouldnt you say?

[TripleTransAm]

LOL!

[jwheeler]

I would like to personally thank Zack, and Mac for all there help prepping my car at the Rock Island Dyno tune on Saturday. I think you guys have done this a time or two! I would like to thank Mark [N4Ogl] for pointing out where my engine was located by writing in the dirt that covered my engine compartment. (My whole car for that matter! DAILY DRIVER) I would also like to add that I am the proud owner of the official Sgt. Mac thumbprint on my left valve cover. Now I can never wash the engine! It was a great time meeting the Chicago guys and seeing Jerry work has magic on some sweet cars. As for my car, Jerry was able to squeeze 265RWHP and 285RWTQ out of her. The base run netted 238RWHP and 240RWTQ. Resulting in a 27RWHP and a 45RWTQ gain! Jerry is the man! The next time Jerry comes within a state of where you live, get in your car and go see the man! You won't be disappointed! Oh yeah, If any of you are thinking of getting the Vortech kit from Dennis, but are afraid to tackle the install yourself. Just give Zack a call. I can attest to the quality of has work, as I have seen the end result. Zack, when the money comes, you will be getting a call from me!

:banana2: :rock: :bows: :beer: :D

-J

[Mark [N4OGL]]

I'm a little late getting into this thread, so apologies to Dennis, Mac, Zack, Andrew and Jason (and everybody else who may be offended. If you're not offended, save this for later and use it then). I had multiple commitments Sunday and didn't get on to the 'puter until Monday afternoon.

I had the pleasure of watching this incredible horsepower revelation occur in Rock Island a couple of days ago. The sheer fun of watching Zack's eyes light up (I think they actually grew to softball size, but I lacked a camera to document this factoid) made it worth the trip. I know he was agonizing about the results before they revealed themselves, but the wait was worth it. I am so happy that Zack got what he wanted ... and it's obvious he worked for it.

One of the things that I was most impressed with (and results in the most kudos to Dennis and to Zack) was the care and finish of Zack's installation. Of course, none of this would have been possible without Dennis' careful design, but the work Zack did was flawless and, honestly, a thing of beauty. Those who may say that this mechanical stuff isn't 'art' are crazy. The art was evident clearly in the choice of paint (Dennis' components) and the canvas (Zack's car). As the cliche goes, "a thing of beauty is a joy forever."

For those of you who may be wondering whether to trust Zack on a supercharger install on their car, I think that the care and devotion to a perfect job are evident in the work displayed Saturday. In my other life, I have been privileged to work closely with vintage race cars and Trans-Am purpose-built custom racers, where old, unreplaceable parts are hand-fabricated, and almost everything under the skin (and sometimes the skin, too) are bespoke parts. As far as I can tell, after looking over what I saw Saturday, the "Dennis/Zack" combination was at least that good and in most places better.

Actually, Zack showing off his stuff in front of the Mustang guys was quite a treat. Not only did Zack's car make the third or fourth strongest pull of the day, it was great to watch the disbelievers (Mustang folk) express surprise at what they just witnessed. Also, comparing the installation quality in the Mustangs there, I kinda got the impression that these guys just spent money and stuffed hardware into their cars without much regard for the quality of the insertion (but lots of interest in the outcome - this seems paradoxical). The T-Bird referred to above that lunched a rod had the intercooler had exhaust coated with cardboard wrapped in aluminum foil (really!) and the intake pipe cushioned with a tattered kitchen towel. Although this was the most extreme example, several others were just as bad -- loose wires and extraneous connectors (that didn't connect to anything) and so forth. I'd hate to try to do a diagnostic on those cars if I didn't know where each wire/part went.

The drive over was also a hoot - a train of three MM's zipping down I-80 caused quite some concern among the other drivers, and when we stopped at a rest area, it wasn't long before the hoods were up and the gawkers standing around. One opined that we were cops doing 'prisoner transport.' This same train zipping back to Chicago (post-event) at 2-3 AM was identified as "three unmarked cop cars" more than once.

I think that the 'take away' thoughts here, for me, are a few. First, the long-term commitment to the research, product and car are probably paramount in both building confidence with the consumer. For example, being able to replicate a great product over and over again - not just a one-off. And taking time to fully understand what the car needs and how to create the solution, in addition to preplanning the components of the solution. In this echelon I place Dennis' product, along with Kenny Brown. Dennis has demonstrated that he has taken the time to create a total and holistic solution that the consumer can buy, install, and operate with confidence. Of course, so has Kenny Brown, who has created a turnkey solution that his shop prefers to install there. I suspect, based on MAD-3R's car and what I've read, that VT is in the same league. If I were to evaluate choices all over again for my car, I think I would be much more reassured by this approach that by one that, essentially, has developed a solution as a subcontractor and then turns it over to a marketing organization when it moves on to other things.

Second, and at least as important, is the care of the assembly of the final product. Kenny Brown, of course, delivers a turnkey solution. While it comes together great (!), the assembly goes on 'behind the scenes' and it's hard to tell what may arise in the course of that process that inadvertantly gets obfuscated. You folks have read about Zack's trials and tribulations in the install of Dennis unit. Zack's skills are impressive and he is a more than competent mechanic. However, he's not a skilled, trained expert who owns his own shop and develops prototypes based on others parts. The Dennis/Zack combination here tells me that the assembly was well thought out, well executed and well planned. The fit and finish was excellent and any problems that need to be unearthed in the future won't have to go through the cycle of "what does this wire do?" before work resolving issues can start. If there isn't this type of thought going into the final product, no amount of CAD/CAM design work will overcome the portent of disaster.

Third, I am in awe of the knowledge Jerry displays as he works to tune a car's computer. More than anything, a car is a software platform, and it's a pleasure watching a master work. Like a surgeon, Jerry's skills dissecting and repairing the bytes really are a testimony to his knowledge and skill. It's a pleasure to work with him, and I invite you folks to do so if you eve have the opportunity.

Finally, don't go to a dyno where it's more important for the owner to smooze with his friends than it is for the owner to be organized and run a business.

I want to say, personally, how much I enjoyed meeting Jason and Andrew and seeing what other members of our 'club' do for a living and with their cars. I really enjoy the social aspects of what we've got here, and its great to be involved with this.

I also want to thank Mac for the invite to tag along. When I was a Radio Tech for 11 years on the SCCA Trans-Am circuit, I think I learned more about radio through that interaction than I did as a ham radio operator for the prior ten years. This club is like that. Thanks to Mac, Zack, Gary and others I've met, I have expanded my car knowledge more than I have in the past, and in a fun way. And, I got my car's computer refined yet again. I may not be the smartest engine bolt in the crankcase, but I know what I see, and I'm willing to learn (unlike others with fixed, or compensated, opinions).

If you folks go with Dennis's solution, you can't go wrong. And you probably can do it yourself, and learn something to boot. Go for it.

Mark

P.S. Mac says I don't post enough. Does this help?

NOTE: Any similarity between the opinions expressed here and an actual fact existing elsewhere is purely intentional. Or not.

[BillyGman]

interesting post.......

[deerejoe]

It never ceases to amaze me that so much knowledgeable and concise expertise is demonstrated on the care and modification of this sub $35K automobile.

Owners of Rollers, Bentley's, Lambo's and Ferrari's...autos costing a kings ransom, DO NOT give anywhere near this amount of attention to their steeds internals.

Either the MM owner group is a bunch of frustrated "high end" wannabe's or they have "found" an automobile worth the effort to make it the "sleeper" of this millineum.

My excitement with the MM continues to grow each and every day that I read the results of the ongoing pursuit to find the epitome of performance this Mercury is capable of.

Additionally, the dedication of ALL the supporting vendor's on this website to devote so much of their time and incredible talent to fulfilling each members dreams/desires within the parameters of their budgets is without peer.
Imagine, if you will, a scenario based upon leafing through the various after-market catalogs, shopping shade tree speed shops and your local auto parts store shelves in quest of the information AND solutions offered HERE for your perusal and genuine satisfaction.

This site AND its myriad list of owners, contributors and just plain "tire-kickers" has NEVER had it SO GOOD!!

THANKS to ONE AND ALL of you for providing such inspirational enjoyment to those of us who merely bought this automobile as an investment in a UNIQUE, fun to drive (OEM) machine.

The pleasure bar has been elevated to to a level we can all achieve with so little effort and concern.
My Marauder has taken on a whole new meaning and feeling whenever I drive it!!

[Marauder57]

Zack,

Great job! Great numbers....and just to to repeat...."I Told You So"...that SC kit that Dennis put together is the REAL DEAL! Looks great and runs better....When you floor that thing it is almost mind boggling that a car that large can move so darn quick.....anyone who has ever seen it go...(Gainesville Track) just cannot get their mind around a car that big going so fast!

Enjoy the ride Zack and hopefully you will get to install some more.... :D

[2003_MM_FYRE49]

I wish Jerry would have posted the date for Rock Island in his website. I wanted him to retune my car.

Tim :fire: 49

[duhtroll]

I know this doesn't help now - but we saw it posted under "events" in the forums here. I bet he'll be back within driving distance of you somteime - so keep checking.

Sorry you missed it - we could have used another MMnet member there. It was fun despite the wait.

Thanks,
-A

[WolfeBros]

I am getting in late to this tread as well but kudo's and well done to Dennis for the quality and design of the kit and to Zack for his installation skills. More than that......thanks for taking the time to educate the rest of the Marauder crowd that lurks here. I may be one of the s/c wannabe's on here but I do appreciate any and all of the information that you boy's post. I have never seen a site where this much information is spread and posted freely. I look forward to meeting and shaking hands with you all in Ennis.
Congrats again on an awesome job. Those numbers are great. :up:

[Zack]

Im looking forward to it as well. A lot of people will be sold when they drive the blue car Dennis has and my car. I know for a fact Logan cant wait LOL.