got a ticket. So. MO (think deliverance)

[whd507]

I was heading to work yesterday, (60 mpg 2-lane with wide shoulders, heavily traveled, it should be a four lane road for this much traffic) in the county on a state highway, and I came up on a string of three cars tracking together more or less at the limit. that was fine with me, I was a little early, and I tracked in as car four.
a Lincoln Aviator came up on me from behind like we were standing still with HID-style lights on high beam, swerved around behind me for a bit, then passed me, and cut in front of me, causing me to take evasive action. I backed off a bit, and for a mile or so, it was ok, but the Aviator was weaving side to side, and when it was off to the right, it would kick up debris from the shoulder and bumpstrips. it also was varying in speed a bit. I guess I could have just pulled over and waited for the whole group to get far enough ahead to be out of my way, (but thats hindsight)

we came up on a stretch of straight road with more than enough to pass all four cars safely with no driveways or crossroads, and enough line of sight to see no oncoming traffic at all. I passed the four cars, and settled back into my lane and promptly braked and slowed back to 60-65 (the same as before) I had clear road all the way into the next town, and could have gone much faster if I wanted to, like I said I wasn't in a hurry, I stopped in town at my normal coffee stop, and an individual sped into the parking lot, (we thought he had caused damage to his minivan the way he sped through the curb/entrance) he proceeded pull alongside me, and began to cuss me out and first he claimed to be a off-duty police officer, then later just said he worked for the police dept. (the attendant at the coffee shop noticed this too ) I was calm and admitted I passed, but wasn't in any mood to further aggravate this guy who was obviously upset and possibly unstable. he said he was going to report me to the police, and he knew where I worked, and drove off. about an hour later a police officer arrived at my place of work and briefly asked about the event, I didn't say much more than I passed a group of cars. the ticket was already filled out, and I don't know if the officer who gave it to me was the one that signed it or not. one of my employees later told me that the name on the ticket, is either the police chief, or his son who works for the dept, but nobody is sure if he is an officer or not.

further the ticket if for city court, and I'm told that the city judge is either related or otherwise very close with the chief.

so I'm waiting to hear back from an attorney tomorrow. I don't know about Missouri law, in other states I've lived in an off duty officer would have been a legit witness, and out of jurisdiction may or may not be an issue. but wouldn't an offense in the county, should have been ticketed by the county sheriff?


the coffee guy thinks hes just jealous because he was driving a ivy green minivan.

[2003 MIB]

I wish I could find a 60mpg road....:)

[sd8683]

I was under the impression that you can't get ticketed unless your caught in the act??

[TiTo35]

So uh...what was the ticket for?

[Blk Mamba]

Me too, I'd fight it. ^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Aren Jay]

Don't worry about the judge with a lawyer they will act according to the letter of the law or they get in so much trouble they lose everything and know it.

Connected or not, nothing to worry about. Talk to your lawyer.

[larryo340]

I can't see how you could get a ticket after the fact. Fight it and let your lawyer do all the talking, and don't say a word.

[Blackened300a]

I wish I could find a 60mpg road....:)

:lol::lol:


Only 12-18 MPG roads here in NY. :D

Im wondering how they could issue you a ticket without a officer witnessing the act. Plus they never checked your license or registration info. Fight the ticket. According to this reasoning, cops could just hand you a ticket for whatever offence they think of at any given time.
Fight the ticket.

[whd507]

the ticket is for "careless and imprudent driving" the Missouri equivalent to reckless driving.

[justbob]

Even without a lawyer reckless driving usally gets dropped in court, it needs to be more informative on what your actions really were.

[Spectragod]

Good luck proving that in court, plead not guilty in the mayor's court, get it kicked to the county or city.

[MENINBLK]

Gee Pa...
Haven't you written enuf tickets to dem utes about they drivin yet ???

[TiTo35]

I had no idea you could get a ticket thru word of mouth! :lol:

[Spectragod]

If a police officer is the witness, it is possible, it depends on the citation. Reckless Op is kinda hard to prove if the citing officer did not see the violation.

[Mike Poore]

No points, or insurance repercussions?

Depending upon the cost of the attorney vs: the dollar amount of the fine + your time and aggrivation .....it aint right, but it's the cost of doing business. Pay the fine.

I admit though, it's way weird. :shake:

Um, you know who the nitwit in the van is, and where he lives, right? ...20 years is not too long to wait. :rolleyes:

[SILVERSURFER03]

If a police officer is the witness, it is possible, it depends on the citation. Reckless Op is kinda hard to prove if the citing officer did not see the violation.


the ticket is for "careless and imprudent driving" the Missouri equivalent to reckless driving. so who decided it was careless it sounded safe....most of the time the judge will ask you if YOU thougt that it was careless(or reckless) just say no then it's dismissed at least in md iv'e seen it.... and i think you have to be seen by the officer doing the infraction to get a ticket.. and i think getting a lawer was the best thing you could do...( my brother had reckless,going 100 in a 55 fleeing and eludeing,failure to display licence,and an other ticket all in 1 stop lawer got knocked to 1 point and no fine)

[knine]

The whole thing sounds screwy to me.

[Dragcity]

Post removed by author.../

[SILVERSURFER03]

Now i remember........... Cop didn't see it i didn't do it.................lol haha

[whd507]

I'm not sure who the citing officer is, whether its the guy in the van, or the officer who delivered it. the guy in the van did claim to be a police officer (3 witnesses) then claimed to be an employee of the police dept. if the officer who delivered the ticket is the citing officer, he didn't witness anything, it was hearsay. if the guy in the van is the citing officer, then why didn't he deliver it himself?

[Pat]

[quote=whd507;641562 about an hour later a police officer arrived at my place of work and briefly asked about the event, I didn't say much more than I passed a group of cars. the ticket was already filled out, and I don't know if the officer who gave it to me was the one that signed it or not. unquote].

Oops, you admitted to a police officer that you pass a "group" of cars. That's usually not allowed on a two lane road. The fact that it is cited as "reckless" driving is a serious offense in my state requiring a court appearance.

You can explain to the court what prompted you to pass four cars, that is the threat of the SUV, and hope that it will appease the court to reduce the charge to improper passing. I personally don't have much stock in traffic court lawyers, they cost a lot of money (2-3K) and may not be able to do any better if you defended yourself. Your call of course but try and get the count reduced from a reckless driving charge.

Regards,

[Hacklemerc]

I have stopped cars while off duty by calling dispatch and relaying what happened to them. Stopped, with a uniformed officer, signed the ticket and wrote the short report for reckless driving. But that was because I thought the driver was DUI and she almost took out the right side of the MM. TUrns out she was texting while driving....

I have also had witnesses sign (not POLICE OFFICERS) traffic tickets for road rage and reckless driving and issued them after the fact. Don't blame the police officer, blame the "witness." I did not want to write the ticket but my supervisor said write it and let them fight it out in court. I had to write a report as to what i was told by the "reporting party" and then complete the ticket. I think its crap because i didn't see the offense, so how can I be called to testify about it in a court of law. Unfortunately the law in our county allows such things to be done.

I dont think it ever went to court because I never got called to testify about it.

The reason the "officer" in the van didn't issue the ticket is because he was off duty. He relayed the info to the on duty officer and signed the citation "possibly" and then handed it off the the on duty officer. His burden is to now write the report to prove the reckless driving charge. Possiblyb the reason he did noit deliver the citation himself is his wish to remain annonomous (SP?) and not identify himself and his vehicle. Some people hold grudges. Since I have become a police officer I have had my tires slashed twice and the grill of my car kicked in once, while at the back parking lot of the PD.

[Bluerauder]

the ticket is for "careless and imprudent driving" the Missouri equivalent to reckless driving.
Sounds a little fishy to me :fish: especially if the "witness" was just a clerk/admin or something at the police department and NOT an off-duty officer. If so, I think it can be classified as hearsay -- Not proven, Not Guilty.

If they would ticket for "careless and imprudent driving" here in Northern Virginia, we could get 50% of the people off the roads. ;) Too bad we can't add "driving while stupid", too! :rofl:

[Richy04]

If you are found guilty, I would sue the town and the officer who served the ticket. All tickets read " I personally observed..." before the signature along with a penalty listed for signing a summons in which you did not personally witness the violation.

The officer should have crossed this off and initialled it if he did not witness. You can also sue for false imprisonment and the violation of your civil rights as you were detained by an officer who did not personally witness the offense and issued a defective summons based on heresay.

I write summonses quite often and I would never drive my ass to the local diner to issue a summons on the behalf of someone else who said the violation was committed before them. The guy who accused you should have written it and once he lost sight of you and your vehicle, it can no longer be written.

PS, when you go to court, tell the judge that the officer never stopped you at the scene, you dont recognize him, but he did approach you at the Urinal at Joes Java Hut two hours after you got there and you werent driving the vehicle in question. Let him prove you were where he said you were.

[Master]

A lot of good advice here. The only things I wonder about are:
1) Illegal to pass on a two way road. Wow! Divided highways are our major links between cities and provinces, but we can still pass on all of the other two-ways when we have a dashed line, which is a lot of the time (though often not when you really need it).
2) I've had the comment made to me here in the past about cost-vs-time and such, ie. "Just Pay the Ticket". For me, that is never an option when right and wrong are at stake. I'll be going to court later this month for just that reason. No way in heck I would admit anything if I didn't do it. Nor would I take the monetary or driving record hit "just to make it go away". When I screw up, I take the hit. When they screw up, they should take the hit.

[Ms. Denmark]

After reading the thread I too found the whole thing strange, but I was also RELIEVED............ you did say "Think Deliverance" and I did.............the movie!:eek:

[whd507]

"think deliverance" yes the movie, living in the Ozarks can be a bit like the movie at times.

my first thought was with so many "fake" police around here (every other yahoo has a lightbar, and pushbar, and thinks because they are on the roster at the local volunteer fire dept, they are almost a real cop)
is this guy in the minivan a real cop, or a yahoo? no name or badge, so what am I to think?

[rayjay]

Everything written here is conjecture. You will find out for sure when it goes to court. I have written tickets based on a affirmed supporting deposition. Its done quite often on failing to stop for a stopped school bus. In NYS reckless driving is a criminal offense, not a simple traffic violation. It has severe penalties. What level is the ticket you received? Infraction or misdeameanor (crime)?

[whd507]

it says traffic, violation of ordinance 12-10.

[Ms. Denmark]

Was the guy in the minivan ( who tracked you down at the coffee shop and knew where you worked) one of the vehicles you passed?

[whd507]

yes I think it was one of the vehicles I passed.

[pantheroc]

Have your sheriff buddy get a copy of the dispatch tapes/records for the whole time frame. They may disapear if you ask for them. Verify time/date of ticket and tapes/records. Also, validate the ticket numbers before and after yours, look at dates and times. See if there are inconsistancies.