Watch out in Alabama!

[Petrograde]

The cops in Alabama are dressing as construction workers and tagging people with Laser. They look like surveyors, with the Lidar on a tripod!

I don't know if this is only in Alabama, or if other states are this sneaky and underhanded. Be warned!

But, I do have to admit, ... if you are screaming through a construction zone when workers are present, ... you should get a ticket.

[Logan]

Another excellent reason all marauders should have a Blinder M20 on their car. Shuts lidar down everytime. :)

[MI2QWK4U]

Logan, do you have a link or info on the Blinder?

[Marauderman]

OK -- Whats's a Blinder M20 and lidar-- trying to learn what I should already know--but -- your never to young to learn-- Thanks--Tom

[SergntMac]

It's highly questionable, IMHO, that staging such a "speed trap" is legal, or, ethical. I'd be surprised to hear any command level law enforcement official endorse this concept. There have been many decisions from our Supreme Court the redirect law enforcement on exactly how they may, and may not, enforce certain law. Moreover, it's not that simple of a setup, the logistics are expensive, and risky. It would not pay for itself. Therefore, I just cannot see this scenario being true, though the 411 about such a scenario, most likely is true.

"Subterfuge" is an approve law enforcement tool. Hiding in plain sight, and use of "undercover" police officers to monitor areas where criminal activity is anticipated, is an accepted technique. Since it's a holiday weekend, and a long one at that, it's sadeens me to recognize that many lives will be lost and much injury suffered from preventable traffic collisions. Any program that impacts this toll, is good stuff, IMHO, and I can see a command level law enforcement official endorsing "a story." I can even see them staging an "accidential" media event where this news leaks out.

The goal is to save lives, and the game is is to persuade, or, deter the obvious "chance" of fatal collisions. Game on! Where's my hard hat! However, write one ticket, just one, from data collected by on duty cops in such an assignment, and you'll be reading about it (in certain circles) for years. This could be the law journal of the month, I'm glad it's not me running this show...

[Logan]

Lidar is a laser based Speed gun. Kinda like radar only alot quicker making it almost impossible for anyone to slow down in time not to get caught.

It does has it's limitations though. Biggest is that it's light based and as such, you can interfere with the signal legally as light falls under the auspices of the FDA and there are no laws governing the interference of a light signal.

The blinder M20 is a laser jammer, it sends back an erroneous signal to the gun and causes it to error out.

The only drawback is you could potentially be charged with obstruction or interference with the duties of a public official. But the fella has to figure out what you were doing in the first place, which is pretty rare as there are alot of various conditions that can cause a gun to error out consistently.

But, so long as you follow the guidelines, which are to slow down to the limit and turn the blinder off so they can get a good reading, they'll have little cause to stop you, as it can frequently take multiple attempts to get a reading from a lidar gun, especially on dark vehicles.

Now that being said, if you're doing 30 over, he's gonna get you anyway as he'll be able to plainly see that you're speeding. In my mind, it deals with nuisance speeding violations only...

It's saved me from a number of tickets in our lidar happy little corner of the world...

[Patrick]

First I Dont use a radar detector. No need for it it. I get on to MM from time to time but I know where most of my local police sit so I just cruz.

From a trap stand point, I like the idea! I was an MP a few years back. And a contruction site from a SCHOOL ZONE is not much differant!!!!!!!!!!!! I could not live if someting went wrong in either sittuation.

[Bigdogjim]

Pa. and many other state have doubled fines in work areas.
I never understood why people 'blow' through work zone.

There are times and way to speed. Ask any OTR driver. Work zones are not one of them.

[TAF]

Originally posted by SergntMac
It's highly questionable, IMHO, that staging such a "speed trap" is legal, or, ethical.

LEO friends that I have had through the years have always told me....

"When they sit out in plain site...they care about your safety, want to remind you to slow down and that they're watching...and will go after the idiots that STILL speed right past them...

but, when they hide...it's all about revenue"

STILL...there is NEVER any reason to speed in a work or school zone!!!

[Petrograde]

to SergntMac, I see your point of veiw. I saw the news on an AOL webcast, it showed the troopers in civvies with hard hats shooting lidar. They went on to show a couple cars they had pulled over and said they had pulled over 12 cars while the news crew was there. But, ... I'm willing to entertain the idea that it was for show. If it was for show it sure convinced me at the time.

I would say that I'm a responsible speeder. No construction zones when workers are present.

and someone plese explain this to me: a school zone with NO freakin' school in sight! I still slow down, but it bugs the $h!t out of me. ... and I think you should only have the 20 mph in effect when kids are going to school in the morning and coming home in the afternoon. while school is going on there shouldn't be any kids on the street.

I don't need yellow flashing lights to tell me to slow down. If I see people near the road I slow down, I keep an eye them. Especially kids! I guess I have "common sense" or maybe we should call it "uncommon sense"! Because if everyone had it, we wouldn't need traffic laws.:D

Well, I will end this before I start quoting George Carlin! :lol:

[Donny Carlson]

Okay, here's the poop from somebody who lives in Alabama.

Alabama state law >requires< the presence of law enforcement at construction sites on the interstates while workers are present. Alabama also has a law that doubles fines for speeding in a construction area. These areas must be clearly marked and with enough advance notice that the driver has no other reason but defiance to exceed the (temporary) posted speed limit. This means use of signs (including lighted message boards) and the speed limit is reduced by increments. Part of the contractor's bid for the work includes paying for the police car and the officers to man the site. This is to reduce fatalities at construction sites, which were getting out of hand due to workers being struck by speeding cars. Also, if any one of you are familiar with I-20 coming from Atlanta, you'll know that it is a rare day when there isn't some nasty accident somewhere along the corridor.

There has been NO publicity regarding use of police disguised as workers, which local media would most certainly report about if they got wind of it. Also, with staffing as thin as it is with all police departments (including state police) it is very doubtful they have the man power to spare for such a thing. As it is, they target cetain problem areas now, and even use "dummy" offivers in parked patrol units to spread out coverage.

The reason the officer is there is to report a-holes that run through the constuctions zone, calling on other cars to nab the person. I've seen them nab somebody themselves on occasion.
All the units I've seen use hand-held units, and I do think that they are LIDAR units or similar. I have also seen remote units on a tripod while the car was parked off the road a ways. But no way you could mistake the remote for a surveying laser thiodolyte (sp?), and the officers were alway in uniform.

Interestingly, I've been painted by LIDAR a couple of times on I-20, though not by construction zone cars, just normal speed enforcment. Whether it's because my Marauder looks amazingly close to the solid black CVPI's used by the Birmingham police (only a small gold badge on the car by the front door) for speed enforcement, or the fact that I was never going any excessive amount over the limit (10 MPH isn't sexy enough I guess) I have been ignored.

:)

[Petrograde]

I lived in Ohio for the first 19 years of my life. Those troopers always sit on the other side of the hill, not before it or on top of it. They used to like to hide themselves behind other obstructions as well. (I left 10 years ago, and rarely go back, maybe they've changed) IMHO I think it's more about money than safety to them.

[Donny Carlson]

Petrograde -

It's very possible that what you read or saw on AOL is, in fact, true. I just haven't seen it, in the media or in person. This could be some municpality's idea of improving the revenue stream.

Wouldn't be the first time, eh?

[Petrograde]

Originally posted by Donny Carlson


Wouldn't be the first time, eh?

LOL,.. yeah ... unfortunately

[01 Interceptor]

WA State has been this way for some time. People here don't care if it's a school zone or work zone. I am surprised at the amount of people who disobey these laws which are set clearly in the interest to the safety of workers and children, you think they'd know better. Maybe if someone close to them became a victim of such a thing as they commit, they'll realize the error of their ways. I always slow down(as in below the posted limit) in work zones when I see workers out there, mainly as a courtesy and safety issue.

[RCSignals]

I've also heard of the RCMP in BC setting up in this way, "disguised" as road surveyors.

Not that many years ago it was not uncommon for the RCMP to have radar set up, and farther down the Highway (yes highway) a Constable on foot, wearing large reflective cuffs, stepping out and waiving cars over to the side of the road.

[03MERCMARAUDER]

here in wichita the officers sit on the walk ways that pass over the freway and nail people with the radar gun, there is always 6-8 cars on the side of the road that hand out the tickets, last month they were sitting up there in lawn chairs. Every state has a different way of catching speeders, i have seen kansas state troopes act like there car is broke down, hood open and everything and hide behind the hood with the gun in hand, and have another car down the road waiting for the person. I always slow down when going threw construction zones and especially school zones.

[modular46]

Like none of us DESERVE a ticket, eh?

[SergntMac]

After exchanging a few stories and opinions here, we see that cops can get creative. It's a real "cat and mouse" thingy, eh?

Sometimes I must pause to admire the tactics, and on both sides too. But still, there's no excuse for cheating by the police. On that note, just because someone you know somewhere got a ticket somehow, doesn't validate the "cat's" method and manner. Most cases get thrown out at a later time, when the violations of correct proceedure by the police are examined by the court.

Sadly, the people who get caught by unfair practice and get a ticket, come to realize that they were speeding, and opt for the easiest way out, which is usually to pay a fine to the local jurisdiction, and no voolation will be recorded on your state record. While this may be in the mortorists' best interests, it does allow the police to run amok in unfair practice.

This "easy way out" does not expose unethical practice by the police. It does not allow them to run a "true" speed trap, nor, does it deter them from doing so just to earn revenue for their jurisdiction.

Only when citizens fight back, does the Court examine the manner/method of the speed detection and determine "trap" or not. Often, the cases come to be disposed of, no foul..."We see that now, Mr. Smith...Thanks for stopping by."

Like I said before, there are rules, and ethics. This matter has been before the Supreme Court more times than any Capital Punishment case, as a 4th Amd. "search and seizure" question.

The cops lose every time, because while being creative is approved by the Court, being stupid about it is not. (BTW, if you get unfairly stopped and cited, don't argue the issue there and then. Get a mouthpiece, and a new playing field, fight on your turf, the court room.)

Simple rules remain in place, and at least once per Supreme Court session, the rules get a "dyno tune." The police should be following these rules, if they want to enforce the speed limit for the right reasons, public safety. If they're just hunting bucks, eventually they get caught and forced to stop. That takes time, and citizen involvment, both often in short supply.

Police must be in police uniforms, and the enforcement cars must be marked as well (but a roof mounted light bar is not specifically mentioned.) The area where speed will be monitored by devices must be posted as being monitored, and the officer cannot make his observations, or measurements, from anywhere other than a "public way." Therefore, shooting radar/lidar from the police station parking lot is okay. Likewise, from the driveway of an elected public official from the same jurisdiction during his official tenure in his sworn office. Shooting from a Burger King drive through is a big no-no.

Funny how people run stop signs and speed all day long in shopping mall parking lots, and the cops never seem to do anything about it. That's because it's private property and not the public way. Without the property owner's complaint, or, a prior written agreement for contract policing by the local police in place, the police are handcuffed from enforcement.

IMHO...I've always felt that anywhere a standardized traffic control device, or, sign appears, it should be obeyed, and I believe that most of us, as responsible motorists, agree on that and we do obey it.

However, enforcement depends on who owns the property the device or sign is mounted on, and who's paying for the enforcement. Odd, yes? Welcome to America, where everything comes down to money.

This isn't a rant, just some observations collected over time, about who does what.

Cha-ching!

Next?

[Logan]

Well said Mac. The cops around here have been known to shoot lidar from private property, I've had two tickets chucked out like that. I even warned the second cop who wrote it that he was wasting his time, he just put it bluntly, if I get it thrown out, so what. The other 20 folks he'll write up won't know enough to challenge it. I kept my mouth shut at that. Pretty ballsy attitude...

[Petrograde]

However, enforcement depends on who owns the property the device or sign is mounted on, and who's paying for the enforcement.

Thanks for the info Sarge! I gotta get to the mall parking lot now!

[Litsnsirn]

Well, this is nothing new. The Indiana State Police have had completely functional squad cars disguised as INDOT trucks, for as long as I remember. In a construction zone, if you spotted one and you were speeding, it was way too late. Looked like any other DOT F250 extended cab 4x4 only with a few more antennas and blacked out windows. They exist for only one purpose, construction speed zone enforcement.

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by RCSignals
I've also heard of the RCMP in BC setting up in this way, "disguised" as road surveyors.


Confirmed. I've seen them, just this weekend. And not in a construction zone.

Sarge makes some good points, but I'd like to point out that these rules do not apply to my Canucklehead bretheren.

Anyone can make a citizens complaint about a speed violation, only the RCMP have the tools to enforce it. If you can prove, in court, that you knew for certain and demonstrate how you know that someone was speeding through your parking lot, you can charge them. Police can also operate from private property - with permission of the owner. I do know in most cities, you don't own the first meter of your property. I'm not sure if they can do it without permission on this first meter (3 feet), but I doubt it.

LEO's can also operate in plain clothes - there is no concept of 'entrapment' in Canadian law. (They do have to identify themselves upon request though). I know the LEO's in my area operate Corvettes, F150's, Mustangs, Beetles and even Minivans. That one is scary - unmarked minivan - it looks like every other minivan until the light start flashing!! :eek: :nono:

Their primary concern is public safety. So long as they don't stomp on anyones Charter Rights (our Constitution) the courts agree with them. Just this last labour day long weekend, they caught someone on a rice rocket doing 240 in an 80 zone (on the Whitemud Freeway for Logan & TTA). Someone else doing 144 in a 50 zone. 50km/H over the speed limit around here earns you a day in court, and a probable year long suspension from driving. Triple the limit I think is jail time.

Personally - if it makes the streets safer, I'm all for it. :)

[Logan]

Edmonton's Cops are the ultimate pro's in speed traps that's for sure. :)

[gja]

Well, I say a level playing field makes for fair play. The LEO's have their RADAR/LIDAR and, like Logan, I have a V1 and a 4-head Blinder system. They have a sporting chance and so do I. LIDAR is a system thought up more for revenue than anything else. I will not get into an ethical discussion on this. I am basing this on the fact of the basic design of LIDAR. It simply lends itself to money-ticketing.

Trust me, it was designed with such a focused specification and operational method it is obvious they intended it to generate revenue. The courts got sick of getting beat on poorly executed RADAR stops, and wanted a 'fresh-face' that John Q Public was not fimiliar with in the hopes it would put the scales back in their favor.

It worked, but only for a while. And they made a terrible mistake by not using a radio-frequency device as there is no standing federal law governing the use of what is essentialy an infrared light emitter array on a car. They should have stuck to r.f. for protection against LEGAL jamming as the F.C.C. can aide them with well-tread laws.

They have painted thamselves into a bit of a corner there. In their zeal to 'put it over' on the general public they got bitten by the dog they unleashed. Oh well, you make the choice you take your chances.

Tough, take it like a man my dad always says.
"Dems da breaks":D

[JamesHecker]

January 1st of this year brought about a twenty percent increase in traffic fines here in California.

Our local LEO was out in force, filling the coffers right away.

At one location, a greenbelt lined boulevard, LEO were standing next to the road behind trees with radar. Radio cars were waiting down the road.

Although I welcome enforcement for public safety, it was difficult to see in this case where public safety was the issue. The location was well away from residential, with no cross streets.

Oh well, I guess our city needed the money, what with the California budget deficit crisis and all.


I have also seen LEO standing near intersections watching for people to go through lights late. Again, the Radio cars were strategically placed further down the road, waiting for the unwary offenders.This I feel is quite different though as running a red is definatly a hazard that deserves to be enforced.

I give our local LEO high marks for their creativity:D

[rct]

There was recent rumbling about LEO dressing/acting as homeless folks on corners, handing out tickets for red light running and stop sign blowing.

New Jersey has elevated the "Construction Zone" "Slow Down My Mommy Works Here" "Give 'em A Brake" thing to an artform. They just set up the barrels. Miles of them. Nothing in sight at all being worked on, they'll have them up all summer long. Double the fine for the township/county. Nice. Funny, Labor day comes and goes, so do the barrels.

Noticed out west the signs say "Fines Higher", doesn't say doubled. Heh. That can't be good.

[jerrym3]

Drove from Montgomery Al to Atlanta last Saurday morning to catch a plane back home to NJ.

Numerous warnings regarding construction, but not a worker in sight. (Saturday)

Nice smooth roads in Al. Seemed better maintained than Ga.

[AlabamaSS]

I live down in L.A. (lower Alabama) and have not seen that yet.
I would not be surpirsed though as we need the money down here real bad..HA! :)

[TripleG]

This wasn't a speed trap but I got a $166 ticket for weckless driving. I pulled up to a light with a unmarked car next to me (I didn't pay much attention to him) and when the light turned green I started to go and the car stayed with me and I went a little faster and the car stayed with me. So I gave it a little punch and cruised by. Then he was on my tail so I punched it again and then the lights then the siren and he pulled me over.

First thing out of his month was he wasn't mad that I beat him off the line, it was the second punch that got me in trouble. He said I has doing 70 in a 40, I saind why were you on my tail. We went back a forth, I got the ticket anyway. Live and learn.
:alone:

[Logan]

Here in TX, a reckless driving conviction gets your license automagically yanked for a year, no if's and's or but's...

[jgc61sr2002]

Alabama SS - Welcome to the site. The best on the net.:up:

[AlabamaSS]

Thanks!
With all honesty, I test drove the Mauauder down here a few months ago, and while impressed, I must say that I still prefer my SS. With that being said, the Maurauder would be my second choice without a doubt if there was no RWD SS.

I only wished that Ford would have pulled all the stops and made it what it should have been. (with the S/C).

It would have been better (in my opnion) if Ford would have drawn on the Cobra name for the motor and SVT for the other high performance parts. To me, something like that, advertised and displayed on the car and with more punch would have been a better seller. Again that is my 2 cents.

But, just like us Chevy boys, we all have to take what the "big heads" think is best. I will say this, the Marauder has a nicer fit and finish in the inside than ours do.
;)

[woaface]

Originally posted by Petrograde
to SergntMac, I see your point of veiw. I saw the news on an AOL webcast, it showed the troopers in civvies with hard hats shooting lidar. They went on to show a couple cars they had pulled over and said they had pulled over 12 cars while the news crew was there. But, ... I'm willing to entertain the idea that it was for show. If it was for show it sure convinced me at the time.

I would say that I'm a responsible speeder. No construction zones when workers are present.

and someone plese explain this to me: a school zone with NO freakin' school in sight! I still slow down, but it bugs the $h!t out of me. ... and I think you should only have the 20 mph in effect when kids are going to school in the morning and coming home in the afternoon. while school is going on there shouldn't be any kids on the street.

I don't need yellow flashing lights to tell me to slow down. If I see people near the road I slow down, I keep an eye them. Especially kids! I guess I have "common sense" or maybe we should call it "uncommon sense"! Because if everyone had it, we wouldn't need traffic laws.:D

Well, I will end this before I start quoting George Carlin! :lol:



Some of the schools here in SC are getting flashing lights instead of "Between theses hours, you must go 25" and they only turn on when kids are out of the doors, operated by a school offical inside the building I think too, since some schools do different things all the time.

[Crazieboutamerc]

To me I think fines should be quadupled in school zones with a automatic suspension of licence and manatory jail/fines for passing school buses which light flashing. On my way to work I see a sheriff following a school bus about 3-4 days a week. I have seen news stories about cops posing as highway workers. In most every state I have been to fines are doubled. which they should be.

Tim

[marauder307]

I'm late to this party, but I've got a few free-floating thoughts here...

Interesting to see Alabama get mentioned by name. My hometown's Montgomery (when will they EVER fix up I-85?!?). I spend much more time away than I do at home...every time I come back, the effin' Eastern Boulevard's more built up, got MORE stoplights, and seemingly ten times the traffic it had when I left it last. B'ham's no better...Malfunction Junction (Donny, you know where I'm talking about!) has not improved for the passage of time (this is the nickname for the intersection of Interstates 65, 59, and 20, right around the airport, and it's an unmitigated mess!)

What has this got to do with this thread? Well,....prolly not much. LEOs in AL have their hands full, to be fair, and the cruddy condition of AL's roads makes those shifts that much harder, in the form of accidents. Add to that the fact that AL is a retiree-friendly state, loaded with old folks who probably ought to have their licenses pulled but won't because their families just can't bear to do it, and the accident rate goes up even "futhuh".

I've seen LEOs in action in a couple of different states, from a personal perspective. In Rhode Island, there's a 4-lane that runs between Narragansett and Westerly, along the southern coast (right past Misquamicut---home of our own Paul T. Casey---been to Moonstone Beach lately Paul?) Got hammered there with my first speeding ticket in 1995 while on duty with the USCG station at Point Judith. Cop was in a teal '92 model Camaro RS with ordinary license plates and no lights. Blew by him while he was on the side of the road; he caught me about 2 miles later. Had wig-wags behind his hi-beams. Was I righteously gotten? Yeah. I was easily about 20 over; he cut me a break when he saw my CG id and knocked the speed down on the ticket. RI's got a first-time forgiveness policy, I wrote a letter to the judge apologizing for my wild behavior and got the ticket removed. But to this day, I still wonder about the methods used by the RI troopers....

Got hammered twice in Daytona Beach, once during BiketoberFest, once during Bike Week. Both times, was busted in a Mustang (once in my LX 5.0, once in my V-6 coupe); both times busted by motorcycle cops who completely, blatantly, and obviously bypassed the longhairs on their Harleys with open pipes and no helmets popping wheelies and doing burnouts in the street just so they could get at the guy in the Mustang who looked like he had the money for the ticket.

Yeah, I'm p1$$ed about it. But I didn't bother to fight it because I was actually over the limit...by about 7-10 mph. Guess you just can't drive a car in Daytona when the bikers are in town...I was on the mainland side, BTW, not out on the barrier island where the main festivities were.

Was informed at my reserve drill this past weekend, by a guy who's regular job is in STL LE, that my car was a dead ringer for the vehicles driven by the local precinct captains. Hence, I never get stopped up here in STL because the road officers are afraid they'll be nailing "the Chief"...interesting fact to know, as I routinely blow the he11 out of the 60 mph limit on south I-55...

[captJ696]

maraauder307, wow are`nt the St. Louis LEO captains special. Are to saying they get to enjoy our Marauders and get paid at the same time. ....Life is gooooood!