Difference between Stage 1 & 2?

[Petrograde]

OK,.. I've read a bunch of threads here about Dennis' mods, but I'm not exactly clear on the differences. Anyone care to enlighten this mod newbie?

Also, I won't be able to get to FL. for an official install. I know I can do the stat and plugs, but I think the chip is beyond me.

From what I've read on this forum I think Dennis is the man I want to do business with.

Thanks!

[Marauder57]

I don't remember when but in the last 60 days...under Reinharts forum there was a thread on this....if you check there it will show up....covered alot of stuff.....

[Petrograde]

oh,.. I didn't think of that,.. I only checked in the last 30 days I think,.. whatever the default is.

Besides, the search box spits back the number 1 !:rolleyes:

[Petrograde]

okey-dokey, Thanks Marauder57! I found it.

I will re-post Dr. Caleb's wise words.


think the definition for 'Stages' differs from person to person.

I've always though of 'Stage 1' as 'getting the most out of what you've already got', ie: not messing with the motor, trans etc but tuning some of the bottlenecks like the exhaust, to prepare for more horses. Stage 2 would be getting more horses through other means, like forced air. It would also be ways to keep those horses on the ground, such as strengthning the drive line etc. Stage 3 would be the big stuff, engine displacement, nitrous (for those so inclined). Basically making it race ready.

EG:
Stage 1:
-Pulleys
-Headers
-Chip
-Exhaust
-Rear end, driveshaft or drive line mods
-Suspension: brakes, springs, sway bar, traction bar.
-Engine tuning (and/or chip)

Stage 2:
-Fuel system upgrade
-Cooling system upgrades
-Ignition system upgrades
-Forced air - low pressure (8-10 psi) Supercharger/Turbo or Ram Air
-Stronger axels, rear end
-Stronger transmission
-Stronger drive line (Steel driveshaft)
-Balancing/porting/polishing engine

Stage 3:
-Forged engine internals
-Displacement upgrade
-Oxidizer (Nitrous)
-Higher pressure forced air (10-15psi), twin turbos etc.
-Trip to dentist. Must have nice smile!

This is by no means official, correct or complete. Just my own personal preference on what should be done, and sort of in which order to ethier be more effective, or prepare for the next stage.

To me, our cars have little bits of Stage 1 and Stage 2 already built into them. Our exhaust system is pretty good for example, and so is the cooling system.

Thanks Obi-Wan .... er,... Dr. Caleb! :lol:

:lol:

[SergntMac]

Actually, "Stage I" and "Stage II" were phrases I used way back last year when I began modding and dyno testing my first MM, reporting the facts back here, sometimes daily.

Stage I was chip, gears, 180 stat and colder Motorcraft plugs, mods that helped develop more power. Stage II mods were mods that delivered that power, and also served to reduce taxing power losses via parasitic drag (making more power available at the wheels). Underdrive pullies allowed the engine to gain RPM faster, and reduced the drag created by the heavier OEM parts. The 9" Stallion TC is also smaller and lighter than the 11" OEM T/C, and its torque multiplier is much improved over the OEM, by as much as 50-60% The DynoTech drive shaft was included to help deliver that power to the rear end without excessive wear and tear, as well as avoid a driveline vibration issue once concealed by the OEM limiters removed by the chip. Exhaust was on neither list, because back then, there were no option that gained or delivered power. Exhaust was a matter of what you wanted the car to sound like, therefore as cosmetic as pin striping, or, tint.

Once the Denso plugs became available, they replaced the Motorcraft version in the Stage I profile. After that, it all got a bit loose. New products continued to be released day by day, and owners stopped planning their paths, and modded by what they could afford to buy at the time. The lines of distinction between the Stages got blurred.

I believe this rudimentary division is still the best way to look at things. Stage I mods can be anything that helps develop more power. Stage II mods can be any mods that deliver that power to the ground, or, improve durability and safety. It can still be confusing. Now that we have headers, high flow cats and X pipes, exactly where the would fit in is up for opinion. Some say they add power, other say they just imporve delivery. Think about it this way, an owner can progress in either stage preferred, when ever preferred. A blower kit is clearly an advanced Stage I mod, and the sway bar kit, or brake upgrades are clearly Stage II. Stages III and IV? Ummm...okay.

Guess it doesn't really matter anymore, I'm somewhere in Stage X now, adding a fan to my intercooler for improved AIT numbers, and a fan to my trans cooler for improved durability. What ever works for you, I suppose...IMHO.

[Hemlock]

YOU WILL ENJOY THE UPGRADES , THATS ALL THAT MATTERS . CHEERS !!!

[Petrograde]

Thanks Sarge! that makes sense. Out of curiosity, ... with Dennis' chip, plugs,wires, and stat what can I expect from my gas mileage?

I've read ALOT about the performance of these mods, by I haven't heard anyone say what it did to MPG. and of course, I know if you keep your foot in the injectors the mileage will suffer. Just curious about driving around like a good citizen mileage.

Thanks!

[fblumberg]

the chip is easy just gotta realise that dennin instructions dont tell you that after you pull the board on the fire wall that the module is under the dash above the brake pedal thats the easy part!!!!!!!!!
the ***** is the thermostat ...
the bolts are on bottom and its in a
3way hose hook-up
I just paid a garage 75$ to do it ...
the plugs aaaaaaare easy remove the covers.. get a 10 " ratchet extention and gooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!1
burned rubber 1st time...
talk to smokie about the trip he took..
fred

[TAF]

Originally posted by Petrograde
Thanks Sarge! that makes sense. Out of curiosity, ... with Dennis' chip, plugs,wires, and stat what can I expect from my gas mileage?

I've read ALOT about the performance of these mods, by I haven't heard anyone say what it did to MPG. and of course, I know if you keep your foot in the injectors the mileage will suffer. Just curious about driving around like a good citizen mileage.

Thanks!

In similar, everyday driving...your numbers will stay the same but most folks here have seen increases.

[austin-tatious]

Originally posted by Petrograde
Thanks Sarge! that makes sense. Out of curiosity, ... with Dennis' chip, plugs,wires, and stat what can I expect from my gas mileage?



Sarge's 1st MM got 20.8 highway mpg on a recent round trip to AL and back. It has Stage I and who knows where it is besides that. Some claim it is the fastest N/A MM in NA. The trip included about 500 miles of 2 lane with occasional passing. The rest was I-20. Mrs-tatious did a lot of the driving (it is her car, after all). She is fairly "good citizen" but she did get it up to 110 mph passing 3 at once on the way back. (And she didn't even realize it while it was in progress!)

[Dennis Reinhart]

Originally posted by Petrograde
OK,.. I've read a bunch of threads here about Dennis' mods, but I'm not exactly clear on the differences. Anyone care to enlighten this mod newbie?
Thanks!


Well Stage 1 is chip plugs thermostat and gears stage 2 is exhaust Pi converter sawy bar and Underdrive you can do any or all in what ever order you desire, call me any time or come by.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by Petrograde
Thanks Sarge! that makes sense. Out of curiosity, ... with Dennis' chip, plugs,wires, and stat what can I expect from my gas mileage? I've read ALOT about the performance of these mods, by I haven't heard anyone say what it did to MPG. and of course, I know if you keep your foot in the injectors the mileage will suffer. Just curious about driving around like a good citizen mileage. Thanks!

Back in the old days, mods similar to these usually meant your MPG was headed into the single digit figures. However, this MM is a highly sofisticated computer controlled automobile, and you have two schools of thought to balance out here.

The power making mods serve to glean more power from the base car. The power conserving/safety mods will deliver more of that power to the wheels, and help you control this 4200 pound beast. In theory, the car is performing more efficiently, with much less work, and you will get more MPG bang for your buck, no doubt about it. Chasing that bang...well.

Cool your jets in your driving habits, and you will see a gain in MPG, but as Austin has shared with us, the car is now capable of astounding performance over the base car, and in a manner that tends to surprise everyone driving her. 20 some MPG on the highway, after some high powered driving, speak for itself. Lots of fun and giddy-up go, without a serious hit in the MPG pocketbook.

The mods we speak of here were brought to us by Dennis Reinhart. Maybe they are not all his original concepts, but he put the right stuff into our hands. Back last year, when I was building my first MM, the purpose of so many dyno tests, was to prove, or, refute Reinhart's claims. I proved them, independently, and this is why I support Dennis today. If there is something you want to know about the MM, call Dennis. Business aside, he love the MM, and he wants the best for us owners.

Austin's car is 100 percent Reinhart. Everything Dennis ever promised me, came to be true. My last dyno on that car produced 275 RWHP and 301 FTLB torque, and I consider that dyno conservative in it's numbers. The car ran three clean 14.2x runs at the track, on street tires, and against adverse track conditions, the car is much faster that these indexes report, all very drivable on city streets.

And, the last time I measured the MPG, it was 20 some city, 22 some on the highway. Considering the changes in atmospheric conditions between the a hot summer in Texas, and a cool spring in Chicago, and differences in gasoline blends for each territory, there is no valid reason to imagine that overall performance has changed. Austin may see a 14.0 at the track, maybe a 14.5. But, it's the consistency that counts. That car will perform everytime you get into it.

Maybe I digressed a bit here, but the point I am making, is that the mods will improve performance, including MPG. How you drive the b**ch, will also impact MPG. However, as Austin will tell you, that performance is worth the MPG. Pick your mods carefully and the car will love you back.

[Murader03]

Ah! Sarge the prolific! You haven't lost on bit since you got the speed of light car. It's really a pleasure to read your posts! Really looking forward to meeting you at Hersery in October, along with the rest of the gang that will be there.

[martyo]

Originally posted by SergntMac
How you drive the b**ch, will also impact MPG. However, as Austin will tell you, that performance is worth the MPG. Pick your mods carefully and the car will love you back.


Yeah, and the b**ch will cook even better for you....