Veterans chime in, please!

[CBT]

Non-vets, too if you are so inclined.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates is extremely frustrated
> with orders that the White House is contemplating. According
> to sources at the Pentagon, including all branches of the
> armed forces, the Obama Administration may break with a
> centuries-old tradition.
>
>
> A spokesman for General James Cartwright, the Vice Chairman
> of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, states that the Obama
> Administration wants to have soldiers and officers pledge a
> loyalty oath directly to the office of the President, and no
> longer to the Constitution.
>
>
> "The oath to the Constitution is as old as the
> document itself." the spokesman said, "At no time
> in American history, not even in the Civil War, did the oath
> change or the subject of the oath differ. It has always been
> to the Constitution."
>
>
> The back-and-forth between the White House and the Defense
> Department was expected as President George W. Bush left
> office. President Obama has already signed orders to close
> Guantanamo and to pull combat troops from Iraq. But, this,
> say many at the Defense Department, goes to far.
>
>
> "Technically, we can't talk about it before it
> becomes official policy." the spokesman continued.
> "However, the Defense Department, including the
> Secretary, will not take this laying down. Expect a fight
> from the bureaucracy and the brass."
>
>
> Sources at the White House had a different point of view.
> In a circular distributed by White House Press Secretary
> Robert Gibbs, the rationale for the change was made more
> clear.
>
> "The President feels that the military has been too
> indoctrinated by the old harbingers of hate: nationalism,
> racism, and classism. By removing an oath to the American
> society, the soldiers are less likely to commit atrocities
> like those at Abu Ghraib."
>
>
> "We expect a lot of flak over this," the
> classified memo continues. "But those that would be
> most against it are those looking either for attention or
> control."
>
> The time frame for the changes are unknown. However, it is
> more likely that the changes will be made around the July
> 4th holiday, in order to dampen any potential backlash. The
> difference in the oath will actually only be slight. The
> main differences will be the new phrasing. It is expected
> that the oath to the Constitution will be entirely phased
> out within two years.

[bluesfan]

Oath is to God and country. Not one person. Respected as commander in chief as an office. Beauchamp U.S.M.C.

[Bluerauder]

I find this to be rather ironic from the guy who flubbed his first chance at the oath for President and had to ask for a Do Over. :rolleyes:


Non-vets, too if you are so inclined.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates is extremely frustrated
> with orders that the White House is contemplating. According
> to sources at the Pentagon, including all branches of the
> armed forces, the Obama Administration may break with a
> centuries-old tradition.
>
>
> A spokesman for General James Cartwright, the Vice Chairman
> of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, states that the Obama
> Administration wants to have soldiers and officers pledge a
> loyalty oath directly to the office of the President, and no
> longer to the Constitution.
>


Sure seems like the first step toward a Monarchy or a Dictatorship ....

Gates should just make him Senior Rater for all 2.1 Million servicemen and women ..... that oughta keep him busy. ;)

Commissioned Officers execute the following oath at their commissioning ceremony ....

"I, (state your full name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

The Enlistment Oath for the Armed Forces is slightly different and mentions obeying orders of the President and officers ...

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I really don't see what the change will do from a practical point of view. Really. The change is basically unnecessary. Why are they wasting their time on this? And the rationale about executing an oath to "American Society" instead of to the President is a red herring if I ever saw one. Doesn't he believe in the Oath that HE executed in front of millions and millions. I wonder. His oath is basically the same as the Commissioning Oath with the substitution of "Office of the President of the United States" instead of "office on which I am about to enter".

[Pat]

I don't follow the administrations rationale that changing the oath will make a difference in GI's committing atrocities. This is unnecessary.

But, if this President fear's that the Officer Corp's loyality is in doubt then it may make sense. Historically the Loyality of the military has been consistent, what has happened that puts this in question?

[GordonB]

I agree with Sec. Robt. Gates. When I took my oath upon elistment, it was to defend the US Constitution. I think I also did that when I went to work for the US Govt, incl. Ft. Meade as a civilian.

Sorry, Chief (aka Obama) you are off the mark here. OBTW, you must earn my respect. Do not think for one minute that I will auto. give you respect.

My 2 cents worth!
GordonB

[UncleLar]

Hitler did the same thing with the German officers,being mostly good Prussians with a long history of honored service who would never break their word they did and that's one reason the sob didn't get bumped off by the German Army.
It's getting near time for us to start thinking about some radical changes in government.

[finster101]

Hitler did the same thing with the German officers,being mostly good Prussians with a long history of honored service who would never break their word they did and that's one reason the sob didn't get bumped off by the German Army.
It's getting near time for us to start thinking about some radical changes in government.


I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic


At this point in history I fear the destruction from within more that any foreign nation. We are headed down a very bumpy road.

[Dr Caleb]

Veteran, different army. Before you guys get all lock-and-load on us. . .

http://jumpinginpools.blogspot.com/2009/01/military-to-pledge-oath-to-obama-not.html

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackobama/a/loyalty_oath.htm

[Vortex]

This article is complete and utter BS. Not true at all.

[Pat]

Thank you Dr. Caleb, this didn't didn't ring true but not much does these days.

[2,4shofast]

That was about to piss me off..

[CBT]

It's fake? Thank God.

[Haggis]

Good to hear this is BS, for I had nothing constructive to say.

[tjg442]

ITALY, GERMANY, and JAPAN HAD PEOPLE IN POWER WHO WERE ABSOLUTE IDIOTS, :lol: NOW YOU CAN SEE WHAT LOOKS LIKE WE WILL HAVE FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS ? :bows: WAIT ! THIS IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBURG. OVER 200 YEARS, AND HE WANTS US TOO SWEAR, HIM,? AS TO WHAT WE WILL FOLLOW.......NOT THIS GUY !....BABY :flamer:

[GordonB]

Glad to hear it was a HOAX or some other stuff!
GordonB

[CentralMaRobit]

Sure it's satire but it is what many expect from the Head Socialist. Real satire would have been an article on Barry firing Gietner for being a tax cheat...

RobitJ..Former Jarhead/LeJeune, Gitmo Marine Barracks, Fenceline and Comm Shack wayyyyyyyyy back.

[CBT]

Sure it's satire but it is what many expect from the Head Socialist. Real satire would have been an article on Barry firing Gietner for being a tax cheat...

RobitJ..Former Jarhead/LeJeune, Gitmo Marine Barracks, Fenceline and Comm Shack wayyyyyyyyy back.

Lol, I got yelled at for chasing banana rats in Gitmo.

[finster101]

The falsehood of this story aside, we are on the fast track to socialism my friend. The quiet power grab of the census bureau, the beginnings of socialized health care in the stimulus (spending) package. It is happening very quickly and quietly. I respect the office of the President. I have no use for the man currently in it.

[Aren Jay]

Up here we swear allegeance to our Queen, not God, not country.

[Krytin]

I thought the Queen (the hereditary line) was appointed by God and IS the country - sounds the same to me.

[jabird56]

To add a different tangent to this,.... Guess what inauguration ball the President DIDN'T show up at? I'll give you a hint, every President since Eisenhower has made it a MUST attend at the particular Ball. Give up? The military Heroes Ball where there were 20+ Medal of Honor recipients in attendance.........

[Dr Caleb]

I thought the Queen (the hereditary line) was appointed by God and IS the country - sounds the same to me.

Not quite . . . the Crown of Canada is the representative head of state, and when Queen Elizabeth wears it, she is doing so as the Queen of Canada. The Crown of Canada is different than the Imperial Crown of Britain or the Crown of Australia, just as the Queen of Canada is different than the Queen of Great Britain. Same person, different Monarch, if you can see the slight semantic difference. The whole 'royal we' thing; multiple aspects in one person.

The Country of Canada is The Crown of Canada (representing the State), the Government and the Judiciary acting together. Just like the United States, except our head of State is not a 'person' per se, but an appointed person (Governor General) who represents an idea (a Crown, or Monarch wearing it). The Queen has few real powers in Canada anymore, she's more about being a moral compass for us.


And you guys might not realize how you have been conditioned to act, when someone says 'socialism'. You have been taught like it's a bad thing. Most of the G8 countries are 'socialist'.

In Canada, our belief that the people come first means we didn't let people who couldn't afford to buy houses ruin themselves. We tightly regulated the stock markets and banks, so they don't need a bailout.

In the last few months, we've only lost around 250,000 jobs; but our economy is slowing down because our biggest trading partner has put the brakes on buying our stuff.

[BruteForce]

Pretty gullible crowd around here.

[BruteForce]

removed as a courtesy for those offended by an innocent attempt at humor.

[Bluerauder]

NEW ENLISTMENT OATHS
Was this supposed to be a joke. You missed the mark. I think that this ^^^^ post is an affront to every serviceman and woman who has taken such an oath to service in one of the branches of the US Armed Forces. :mad2:

After watching your :bs: for the past 5 years, I am pretty sure that your sorry azz couldn't hack it in any of the services. Probably not in the Peace Corps either. I sense a bit of a snob in your remarks. Crawl back under your rock, Jerkwater. :P

[MERCMAN]

Was this supposed to be a joke. You missed the mark. I think that this ^^^^ post is an affront to every serviceman and woman who has taken such an oath to service in one of the branches of the US Armed Forces. :mad2:

After watching your :bs: for the past 5 years, I am pretty sure that your sorry azz couldn't hack it in any of the services. Probably not in the Peace Corps either. I sense a bit of a snob in your remarks. Crawl back under your rock, Jerkwater. :P


Charlie, I never had the honor of serving, but I find this a personal affront to all those who do. Thanks to all who haved served and continue to do so. I won 't close this thread because I really want the members to read the aforementioned post and comment on its "slap in the face" to our men and women in uniform.

[CentralMaRobit]

Hey CBT, my middle name in Gitmo was Trouble. Mixed drinks were 25 CENTS !!! A case of beer was $3.00. I spent six months yelling insults to the Cuban Guards on the other side and six months in the Comm Shack stringing wire on the Fenceline. Oh boy. The world's hardest telephone poles.

[CBT]

Hey CBT, my middle name in Gitmo was Trouble. Mixed drinks were 25 CENTS !!! A case of beer was $3.00. I spent six months yelling insults to the Cuban Guards on the other side and six months in the Comm Shack stringing wire on the Fenceline. Oh boy. The world's hardest telephone poles.

Dang! Well beer wasn't that cheap when I was there. Everyone remember where they were when O.J. was being chased? I was downing Red Stripe beers in Gitmo, watching it on the bars t.v., lol. A good friend of mine wrecked his motorcycle there and slid under a parked truck. His helmet got lodged under it so tight he had to unstrap it to get his head out, then go knock on the owners door and ask him if he would be so kind as to jack up his truck so he could get it, which he did. Good times.
And for the original post, I didn't realize it was a joke. Having recently retired, I am not "in the loop" on these things anymore, mainly by choice. It was an honor but it is also my past. I don't subscribe to veterans mags or wear navy hats, I don't even display my medals or awards. Maybe someday. :rolleyes:

[Krytin]

Not quite . . . the Crown of Canada is the representative head of state, and when Queen Elizabeth wears it, she is doing so as the Queen of Canada. The Crown of Canada is different than the Imperial Crown of Britain or the Crown of Australia, just as the Queen of Canada is different than the Queen of Great Britain. Same person, different Monarch, if you can see the slight semantic difference. The whole 'royal we' thing; multiple aspects in one person.

The Country of Canada is The Crown of Canada (representing the State), the Government and the Judiciary acting together. Just like the United States, except our head of State is not a 'person' per se, but an appointed person (Governor General) who represents an idea (a Crown, or Monarch wearing it). The Queen has few real powers in Canada anymore, she's more about being a moral compass for us.


And you guys might not realize how you have been conditioned to act, when someone says 'socialism'. You have been taught like it's a bad thing. Most of the G8 countries are 'socialist'.

In Canada, our belief that the people come first means we didn't let people who couldn't afford to buy houses ruin themselves. We tightly regulated the stock markets and banks, so they don't need a bailout.

In the last few months, we've only lost around 250,000 jobs; but our economy is slowing down because our biggest trading partner has put the brakes on buying our stuff.

All well said. I wasn't taking a poke at Canada - I like Canada (they build some nice cars there).

I just felt that Aren's comment that the oath was sworn to the Queen (not the Crown which sounds like an office of government) was in effect an oath to God and Country because of the historical deffinition /status of the Monarchy.

You're also very right about your regulations on the banking industry.
We went bust because greedy people thought it was a great idea to turn a house into a personal ATM machine and suck all the value out of it until they were in a negative equity situation. Then they couldn't even afford to sell their houses to get out of debt!

There are a lot of smaller banks/credit unions on the east end of Long Island that did regulate themselves, made good loans and have remained solvent - no bailout money required. This has helped delay some of the effects but I'm afraid the entire world is in for a bumpy ride because of poor ethics and personal greed.

[B.C. Bake]

Not to vear off subject, But I'm still proud to serve in the US AIR FORCE four many years. What will come in the future I am in, "Big Question"?

I still hope and think my motto is "PEACE THROUGH SUPERIOR FIREPOWER":beer::flamer::coolman:

[Dr Caleb]

All well said. I wasn't taking a poke at Canada - I like Canada (they build some nice cars there).

I just felt that Aren's comment that the oath was sworn to the Queen (not the Crown which sounds like an office of government) was in effect an oath to God and Country because of the historical deffinition /status of the Monarchy.


No, I didn't take it as a poke. Aren I suspect is still very British, as he indicated his upbringing was in Britain. There, the Queen and God are on a first name basis. Here, she's more like our "Mum" than our Monarch. "Mum" is the preferred designation of the Queen to Canadians. ;)

The oath of service here, for example is to 'Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors according to law, forever. So help me God.'

Not actually swearing to 'God' but an oath before God, and including the Governor General.

I do hope the situation in our economies settles down. But I fear it won't. Too many things were piled on on another, and I think Humpty had had a great fall.

[Bluerauder]

removed as a courtesy for those offended by an innocent attempt at humor.
Next time post it in the "Joke of the Day" thread so that your attempt at humor is not viewed as a backhand swipe at everyone who has worn the uniform, has kids that are actively wearing the uniform now, or who are currently serving in the Armed Forces. Some things are funny -- this one wasn't.

[BruteForce]

Next time post it in the "Joke of the Day" thread so that your attempt at humor is not viewed as a backhand swipe at everyone who has worn the uniform, has kids that are actively wearing the uniform now, or who are currently serving in the Armed Forces. Some things are funny -- this one wasn't.

You're welcome.

[ParkRanger]

Was this supposed to be a joke. You missed the mark. I think that this ^^^^ post is an affront to every serviceman and woman who has taken such an oath to service in one of the branches of the US Armed Forces. :mad2:

After watching your :bs: for the past 5 years, I am pretty sure that your sorry azz couldn't hack it in any of the services. Probably not in the Peace Corps either. I sense a bit of a snob in your remarks. Crawl back under your rock, Jerkwater. :P

It wasn't an affront to me and I was an US Army Platoon Sgt. (1969-1970).
BruteForce is right - that would be gullible to believe - 'Changing the serviceman's oath' in the first two weeks?????? Just more rightwing garbage
circulated to undercut the new CinC and you bought into it. You need to learn the difference between patriotism and nationalism. Even at West Point the motto is Duty, Honor, Country -- in that order for a reason.
You don't speak for all servicemen and your response was rude and crass - get on the ground and give me 20 -- ready, DOWN.

[Bluerauder]

It wasn't an affront to me and I was an US Army Platoon Sgt. (1969-1970).
You were a 19-year old E-7? Interesting.

[musclemerc]

Get your free samples of hater aide... Would you like grape,fruit punch, or lemon-lime?

[ParkRanger]

You were a 19-year old E-7? Interesting.


UP ..... E5 (hard 5 under 2) at 20 yrs old ($300/mo plus $65 combat pay) ..... READY - DOWN