CV motor question

[duhtroll]

OK all you CV guys --

I have a 2000 CVPI whose motor just took a major dump and most likely needs replacing. I am looking around at used motors and the CVPI package motors are more $.

Why is this and what is the difference? Since this is a work beater, can I just drop a regular CV motor in it?

Thanks!

[Joe Walsh]

All the CV's got the better 'PI' heads in 2001.
I don't think that there are any internal engine differences between a CV and a CVPI.
The CVPI's also have a nice oil cooler set-up.
Look for a 2001+ engine and you will get the better heads.

[FrankJAG]

According to some on CVN the 04's CVPIs are the best on horsepower. Whenever the CVN forums decide to come back online you might want to check, there was a post about this subject a couple of days ago IIRC.

[Embassy]

All the CV's got the better 'PI' heads in 2001.
I don't think that there are any internal engine differences between a CV and a CVPI.
The CVPI's also have a nice oil cooler set-up.
Look for a 2001+ engine and you will get the better heads.


What he said.

I'll add that in 2001, Panthers started getting the "revised" intakes with the aluminum coolant crossover tube. This intake also has deeper runners, netting more HP. That's why many NPI Panthers swap PI cams and PI intakes. I did this on my '98.

[BigCars4Ever]

I think the 01's had a different knock sensor set up so you may need a 01 EEC too. Look for a web site p71 interceptor. I think he covered what's involved in different motor swaps. The oil cooler is just a different casting on the oil filter mount. Save it from your old block to put on the new block. There's a torque sequence for the bolts that the dealer can look up.

[RoyLPita]

+2 on what Joe Walsh and Embassy said. Of course, you could buy Zack's V10 and have a field day with it.

[offroadking208]

According to some on CVN the 04's CVPIs are the best on horsepower. Whenever the CVN forums decide to come back online you might want to check, there was a post about this subject a couple of days ago IIRC.
the 04's actually have the same horsepower as the 04,05,06, etc etc, it just had a more aggressive tune, and from what i've heard, the 01-02 Vic's did have PI heads, but a different transmission setup, so unless you want to do a tranny swap too, i think your best bet would be to find a junkyard 98-00 and use that. Then swap the computer from a 99 CVPI into it because it had the best tune out of the 98-00. The difference will be night and day. good luck

[gdmjoe]

FrankJAG - According to some on CVN the 04's CVPIs are the best on horsepower.
That's only because the 2004 P71 got the Marauder-like air-box and 80mm MAF; it's like because ... the MAF is integrated with/to the air-box and cannot be detached.
the PCM transfer table values are different.
the Marauder combo' has more potential.http://moldyrabbit.com/liquid/power_chart.jpg
*Courtesy Liquid

Other modern-day variances ... 2003+ - knock sensor.
2005 - drive-by-wire a.k.a. ETC ( Electronic Throttle Control ).Year-to-Year Changes (http://www.moldyrabbit.com/liquid/changes.html) <<<<< -click-
*Courtesy Liquid

[FrankJAG]

That's it! Good stuff, thanks guys.
I am sure the OP will like y'alls info as well.

[duhtroll]

Thanks for the info. It's not important what performance it has right now - I have a Marauder for that. It's probably going to get the motor I find the best deal on right now. It's just a work car and I'm not keeping it very long, but it is in too good a shape to junk it.

[Georges93LX]

Thanks for the info. It's not important what performance it has right now - I have a Marauder for that. It's probably going to get the motor I find the best deal on right now. It's just a work car and I'm not keeping it very long, but it is in too good a shape to junk it.

If that the case then find the cheapest running motor you can find.

[duhtroll]

Yep - those were my instructions to the mechanic doing the swap. :up: I think he'll get a better deal from what I have seen.


If that the case then find the cheapest running motor you can find.

[offroadkarter]

the 04's actually have the same horsepower as the 04,05,06, etc etc, it just had a more aggressive tune, and from what i've heard, the 01-02 Vic's did have PI heads, but a different transmission setup, so unless you want to do a tranny swap too, i think your best bet would be to find a junkyard 98-00 and use that. Then swap the computer from a 99 CVPI into it because it had the best tune out of the 98-00. The difference will be night and day. good luck


you can use the stock trans fine with an 01 motor and EEC.

2004 PI's/05 CIVI and up got a different MAF, i dont think that the old plug will fit the new maf at all.

[Joe Walsh]

Thanks for the info. It's not important what performance it has right now - I have a Marauder for that. It's probably going to get the motor I find the best deal on right now. It's just a work car and I'm not keeping it very long, but it is in too good a shape to junk it.

HUH?

You...you...you...mean that you are going to keep it stock!?...:eek:

;)

Good luck with the install and returning your CV to road-worthy status!

[duhtroll]

Noooooo... definitely not stock.

It got a new stereo head unit, new center console, new cb, new radar detector and laser jammer, new headlights, new tires, new air filter, and new oil every 3-4K miles. Now it's getting a "new" motor.

It also got a MM catalytic converter last fall. Now that's EXTREME CV action!

I need some decals for more HP.


HUH?

You...you...you...mean that you are going to keep it stock!?...:eek:

;)

Good luck with the install and returning your CV to road-worthy status!

[TooManyFords]

Am I the only one to ask what happened?

What happened?

[duhtroll]

No, the CVNet guys were inquisitive, too. Here's the story -

We're really not sure what happened until Eric can pull it apart. I'm just getting "worst case" taken care of.

He ran a small camera inside and said there was some scoring internally, so something came loose and is rattling around - compression is all f'ed up and it knocks pretty hard. I couldn't start it after the "incident."

I was just driving down the main street 30 MPH in the town where I work where I got a BANG and lost all power. Coasted over to the dealership on the corner. Their mechanic said timing chain, (just on listening and top view) but I know that's not it now that we have looked at it. Got home after trailering the car to my mechanic and saw a puddle of oil in the driveway - never noticed it when I left and the oil light never came on. So I think this block's a goner, but there could be a miracle somewhere (not that it would cost much different with labor included to fix something like that).

Thanks again - this car was a detective model not a patrol car. It had only 138K on it and I took good care of it since 118K when I bought it.

I thought it would last at least two more years for sure and at least 180K. Guess not.

[duhtroll]

Oh yeah, and the Marauder is now making some nice rattle noises, too.

Am I lucky or what?

[bigmerc2003]

When it rains it pours! Best of luck to you, I hope the cv is up and running soon and cheap and that the rattle is something minimal in the MM. I hate winter, everything breaks!

[Zack]

+2 on what Joe Walsh and Embassy said. Of course, you could buy Zack's V10 and have a field day with it.

V10 went to its new home yesterday. :beer:

[SC Cheesehead]

V10 went to its new home yesterday. :beer:

What's it going into, truck, car or ????

[duhtroll]

That's the best part. The guy doing the swap did all the legwork and the car should be back in my driveway less than a week after the incident, and for less than I thought it would cost.

I'm hoping the MM sounds are just exhaust, too. But it has to stop :censor: snowing before I can take her back out to the shop.


When it rains it pours! Best of luck to you, I hope the cv is up and running soon and cheap and that the rattle is something minimal in the MM. I hate winter, everything breaks!

[Bradley G]

So he cold spend countless hours and dollars to end up with a morphrodite.
CPVI's are so cheap to buy (around here) I hardly think it's worth it to sink money into it , when you could purchace another car for the same or similar money.
Unless you are doing the work yourself for fun.

+2 on what Joe Walsh and Embassy said. Of course, you could buy Zack's V10 and have a field day with it.

[duhtroll]

So he cold spend countless hours and dollars to end up with a morphrodite.
CPVI's are so cheap to buy (around here) I hardly think it's worth it to sink money into it , when you could purchace another car for the same or similar money.

No, you can't. I've looked. The ones in the under $1000 price range (which is where this repair falls) are beat to hell. This car is in excellent shape, block notwithstanding.

It is almost always cheaper to fix the one you have unless its totaled. This car ain't totaled.

As far as hours, if you count the time waiting for the tow and the time on the phone with the mechanic, AND the time looking up prices, I'm in for about 1.5 hours.

All the naysayers should do an apples to apples comparison first.

[Bradley G]

In the Chicago market CVPI's are incredibly cheap, if you had to pay retail for labor to R&R a used/rebuilt motor, you would be very close to replacement costs.
I'd be lookin' for grammas/grampas old CV/GMQ/TC on the cheap!
Detectives car?:eek: wha????

No, you can't. I've looked. The ones in the under $1000 price range (which is where this repair falls) are beat to hell. This car is in excellent shape, block notwithstanding.

It is almost always cheaper to fix the one you have unless its totaled. This car ain't totaled.

As far as hours, if you count the time waiting for the tow and the time on the phone with the mechanic, AND the time looking up prices, I'm in for about 1.5 hours.

All the naysayers should do an apples to apples comparison first.

[duhtroll]

Yes, detective, meaning "not a patrol car." Patrol cars sit at idle constantly, whereas detective's take home cars are primarily commuter and highway miles. I realize in this case it didn't help me, but it's still a good way to buy. One can trace the car back to the department and ask what it was used for, and in some cases even talk to the driver of the vehicle. In my case the inspection stickers and car # assigned to it were still on the vehicle when I bought it -- still are.

They often don't have all of the cruiser equipment, (like a posi rear end in this case) but have carpet instead of rubber floors, and they don't smell like scent-masked vomit.

Ask me how I know. :)

I'll wager one cannot find one as nice as mine for $1000. I'm pretty safe on that bet. EDIT: And I *am* paying retail for the replacement motor.


In the Chicago market CVPI's are incredibly cheap, if you had to pay retail for labor to R&R a used/rebuilt motor, you would be very close to replacement costs.
I'd be lookin' for grammas/grampas old CV/GMQ/TC on the cheap!
Detectives car?:eek: wha????

[Bradley G]

Well I can say from my own personal experience, that a police car in any form, did not get similar treatment than mom & Pops' Panther.
And now you know first hand from your most recent event.
Throw a motor in it and next a trans!

[duhtroll]

Exactly. It's usually grammas and grandpas car that bails early because they are never driven over 3000 RPMs. I stand by my choice of an ex-police car. They are maintained well and beat on every once in a while so you know they work...

My brother inherited my grandparents' Grand Marq, which was the same year as the one he and I drove in HS. We treated ours as hs kids would -- some easy driving, some hard miles, theirs was driven about 1 mile to church every Sunday, then the market, then home.

Which car do you think lasted longer? 'Mine' got 23 MPG highway and lasted 188K before major repair. Theirs didn't make it to 40,000 and got about 12 MPG.

I've been driving these cars since I was 15 years old. (LTDs, Crown Vics, GMs, Town Cars, and now a MM) and this is the first major repair I have done on any of them. Well, save the time I collided with a... nevermind. So, I've known firsthand for 23+ years now.


Well I can say from my own personal experience, that a police car in any form, did not get similar treatment than mom & Pops' Panther.
And now you know first hand from your most recent event.
Throw a motor in it and next a trans!