Talk me out of putting a manual tranny in my MM

[Black03Marauder]

sorry, I know this general topic has grazed the forum before, but I dont think this angle of it has ever made it on this forum

Months and months ago, I went to an autocross and I got into a conversation with a guy about my car. Then I mentioned how useless the automatic is in autocrossing and about how much better this car would be with a manual. As it turns out the guy I was talking to runs a tuning shop and he tells me that:

His shop has put manuals in Crown Vics before and it was a far simpler task than what some people on this forum had led me to believe(but he might be the one that's wrong, so please dont flame me for that ). Pretty much what they did with those swaps was take out the old one, put in the new one, cut a hole in the firewall for the clutch, make a new center console, and thats it. They didn't have to excavate the tranny tunnel or buy a custom driveshaft or upgrade to a 9 inch and the ECU didn't kick up a light. He also mentioned something about a conversion kit, but he said that was no big deal.

I got his number and I think what Im going to do is post this, get flamed, and talk to him about the arguments made in this thread.

Also if you can think of any info that would be useful to a tranny swap(like whether or not this engine is also used in that Mach 1 mustang from a few years ago)I'd very much appreciate it.

[Pat]

I would refer you to Reinhart automotive forum under thread entitled "6 speed SC MM".

It may contain answers to some of your questions.

Regards,

[O's Fan Rich]

Whatever, it's your car.

[ImpalaSlayer]

id love to but i like to cruz in the mm now. plus i cant bring my selft to cut holes in it.

[Zack]

Dont be an idiot, leave it automatic.

[sd8683]

I think it would be cool for about an hour, then I'd hate driving it, just like any other standard I've driven.

[1stMerc]

You can do it, but if yours is a daily driver and sees a lot of stop and go traffic, you'll wish you hadn't done it.

[Joe Walsh]

I could understand your desire for a manual trans because you autocross...if you drag raced, it'd be foolish to put in a manual.
Post up pictures and details if you decide to go with the manual.

Nothing like bangin' gears in a big 4 door!
Just like Ronny Sox!!!

[hot-rauder]

the size ofd the MM would make it no fun as a manual. I used to wish mine was, until I picked up my Fusion, which has the 5 speed in it, and the mach1, which also has the 5 speed in it.

As a daily driver the fusion is nice, and the manual is really clean. Hardly any clutch is required, which makes it nice for the stop and go..... but it is no where near strong enough for what you would want it for.

The Mach1 however has the workout clutch. Tighter than a bulls ass, and after about 30 minutes of it, it cn get tiring. The tranny is strong, but kinda heavy feeling.... It has that reassuring feeling that it wont break. You wold most likely want to bolt up the Mach trans, since it has the same motor. But if it is at all for a daily driuver, rethink. Use the money you would to make it "fun" and make it faster.

[DEFYANT]

Upgrade your breaks and click off the O/D. There.... no need to swap to manual. Have fun autocrossing. I had fun running with the local Porche club and had a very respectable finish.

[Georges93LX]

I haven't research the Marauder in detail yet but I've done a Crown Vic. A guy on CVN has done an '04 Crown Vic. The "Master" in Nova Scotia has a 6-speed in his Marauder. I don't see it being a problem to do the conversion. With that said I can tell you that any manual car in stop and go traffic is a pain in the ***. If you have two cars and can pick your trips then I can attest to the fact that driving one of these boat size cars is a blast pulling through the gears. But everyday, every trip, I don't think I could handle it.

[hot-rauder]

I haven't research the Marauder in detail yet but I've done a Crown Vic. A guy on CVN has done an '04 Crown Vic. The "Master" in Nova Scotia has a 6-speed in his Marauder. I don't see it being a problem to do the conversion. With that said I can tell you that any manual car in stop and go traffic is a pain in the ***. If you have two cars and can pick your trips then I can attest to the fact that driving one of these boat size cars is a blast pulling through the gears. But everyday, every trip, I don't think I could handle it.


m fusion is not bad in stop and go.... the Mach1 however isnt too fun.

[Marauderjack]

The Marauder was not designed with Auto-Cross in mind.....It is a heavy semi-luxury highway car with modest power!!:beer:

Should you do the conversion I would expect you to have it for life as most buyers will prefer the automatic to a makeshift manual!!:rolleyes:

To each his own....good luck!!

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Bulten Rauder]

It would be such a shame to butcher THE last body on frame large sedan EVER made on earth. These cars are rare and valuable the way they were made.

Go get yourself one of the millions of cheap Mustangs and go autocross your socks off.

[magindat]

I you will learn how to operate the SCT tuning software pro racer package, you; be able to set your shift point vs RPM vs speed vs throttle position so minutely that you don't HAVE to shift, the car will shift FOR you.
It takes a while of trial and error and fine adjustment. Adjustments continue as you improve your driving ability as well.
It's way easier to bring a laptop and change a few values than change to manual.
This is why folks like Defyant, myself, hotrauder, jdando, etc can make VERY respectable runs on closed circuit and autocross type tracks. They all started with a good custom tune from their favorite tuner.

[O's Fan Rich]

I you will learn how to operate the SCT tuning software pro racer package, you; be able to set your shift point vs RPM vs speed vs throttle position so minutely that you don't HAVE to shift, the car will shift FOR you.
It takes a while of trial and error and fine adjustment. Adjustments continue as you improve your driving ability as well.
It's way easier to bring a laptop and change a few values than change to manual.
This is why folks like Defyant, myself, hotrauder, jdando, etc can make VERY respectable runs on closed circuit and autocross type tracks. They all started with a good custom tune from their favorite tuner.

shakes_26.......... he's got video.......
But he bought a prepped SN95 for the track now

It's green I think....

[Vortech347]

I love auto-xing these big cars. Their fun.

A 6-speed would rock! Nothing will ever beat the true drivers experience of a manual tranny.

[Master]

I'm afraid that the assessment given by your CrownVic tuner was an oversimplification of the process. The crossmember must be modified to accommodate the tail shaft if you have any hope of making it fit as well as maintaining driveline geometry. He is correct about the drive shaft. He is incorrect about the computer. If you would like to see your dash light up like a Christmas tree with codes, do the swap. It will take a day for a tuner to get those all cancelled. You will have to modifiy the tunnel for the stick as it does not fit in the stock hole. You will have to find a new home for the computer.

It is not a task you want to start in the driveway under the old oak tree. It is not something you want to give to someone who says "Its easy and there are no problems". They are not living in the real world.

I will say that I did New York/New Jersey in rush hour and it was a RoyalPita. It wasn't that the clutch was hard to push, but that I was doing it to a 4200# car with 340 rwhp. The two are not ideally matched to the rigors of stop and go traffic. You Yanks have the kind of traffic that Nova Scotian's can't even imagine. Up here, rush hour lasts about an hour, tops. A brutal drive home from work is one where my normal five minute drive turns into a 15 minute drive. This is why I don't worry about rowing through gears.

If you autocross, do track days, or are simply after more hp, then I really can't say enough about this swap (approx 18% driveline loss vs about 25% for an auto).
If you want a very unique Marauder that turns heads, then I recommend this swap. If you like tinkering and doing your own wrenching, then I recommend this swap. The reason being that you will likely go through more than the average number of clutches once you start racing. And, if you start adding power, you'll likely be upgrading the rear end and driveshaft before long. You could have the same HP as your auto-shod brethren, but they have an inherent "shock damper" in being automatics. You're mechanicals will have no such salvation. Power will be transmitted instantly and brutally to the rear wheels.

Oh, and If you like smokey, three gear burnouts, without the bennefit of the brakes, even on 305 racing slicks, then the manual is definitely the way to go.
I'm not sure what else I could add here, but if my regular morning ruminations produce any more revelations I'll drop back and post them here. In the meantime look for my original 6-speed swap thread. I posted pictures, updates, etc.

[Glenn]

Auto trans work well in the MM if the car is modded correctly. I have run on Road Atlanta Race course with 427R Roush Mustangs and was nearly bumping the 427R in front of me. I will have to edit and post the tape. My son was screaming through the whole course. What FUN!!!! But, the MM has to be set up properly to do this. If my auto MM can keep up to a 427R Mustang you do not need a manual. Most of it is in the suspension set-up and the largest trans cooler you can find are the keys.

Glenn :beer:

[Vortech347]

I don't think its an arguement of weither its nessisary but an improvement on the driving experience.

[Master]

Road Atlanta is a pretty big course. And, if you were almost on the bumper the 427 then it sounds like a track day and not a timed event.
In an autocross as in racing every tenth counts and the difference between a few hundreds of seconds is all it takes to lose to say an M3, Canada Cup Challenge Corvette, or any number of other cars - all of which end up being in my class.
I've driven the auto on both track days and during events and I have to say, I'd never be a contender if I had to rely on the auto.
When I'm on a short course, the auto, regardless of tune cannot put me in the proper gear at the proper moment. Every corner is different and so too must be every shift.
There is a reason that every car on a road circuit has some form of manual gearbox and a reason that virtually every car at a dragstrip is an auto. Each excels in a different area.
PS
I used to win classes in my V-6 Tempo - I'm looking at the plaques now- and to say that keeping up with a 427 is why you don't need a manual is like me saying you don't need an Acura to win at autocross. You are attributing success to the wrong factor. Both the 427 and the Acura's have drivers and both, apparently, needed much improvement. Put me in the Acura and I could (and did) shave seconds off my lap times and beat the owner's times substantially. Put you in the 427 and, it would seem, you'd be leaving him screaming to get out of the car because he didn't realize the circuit could be driven so fast. This is a compliment to you, by the way, and not the transmission. ;)
I used to do the same thing with motorcycles, by the way. Always the underdog, always surprising people. But, put two equal drivers on the course, and it would be a different story. My greatest success in life, come to think about it, has been choosing my battles wisely. There have been some real stinkers, too, though!

[Krytin]

Thanks Master for your last two posts - very well put!

[Brian H]

Try it on an ole' P71 first, if its as easy as they say and workable as you'd like... sellit, take the profits and do it to yer MM. Lets you see whats involved and doesn't destroy your autocrosser in the process!

[Master]

Agreed. Prudence is advised in all transactions involving Marauders.

[Georges93LX]

Try it on an ole' P71 first, if its as easy as they say and workable as you'd like... sellit, take the profits and do it to yer MM. Lets you see whats involved and doesn't destroy your autocrosser in the process!

You would need to use an '03+ to have everything relative. "FunkRider" on CVN used a '04 and didn't have many problems. This biggest headache so far is the pedal assembly.

[guspech750]

id say leave it and go buy a a crown vic with the sport package and hack that up. even though a manual in a mm would be really cool. i love manuals but my wife cant drive them. duh.lol

[Master]

You married someone who can't drive a manual?
What the heck were you thinking?