Military Personel (Active Service and Prior Service)

[Sir Charles]

So what does everyone do and where have you been stationed at?


Name: Charles A.K.A. Chuck
Rank: TSgt (E-6)
Branch: Air Force
Job: 2A373 F-15E Crewchief
Years of Service: 17+ years


Assignments:
1. Soesterberg AB, The Netherlands July 92 - Nov 93 (Closed the base down)
2. Bitburg AB, Germany Nov 93 - Nov 94 (Closed the base down)
3. Spangdahlem AB, Germany Nov 94 - Aug 98 (Closed down the F-15 53rd FS)
4. Nellis AFB, Nellis Air Command, Las Vegas, NV Sep '98 - Present

After posting this up, we can see how small the Military community is getting. I have ran into several people that I have been stationed and deployed with via this post alone.



The Ten OPSEC Points:

Don't discuss future destinations or ports of call!

Don't discuss future operations or missions!

Don't discuss dates and times of when we will be in port or conducting exercises!

Don't discuss readiness issues and numbers!

Don't discuss specific training equipment!

Don't discuss people's names and billets in conjunction with operations!

Don't speculate about future operations!

Don't spread rumors about operations!

Don't assume the enemy is not trying to collect information on you so he can kill you, he is!

Be smart, use your head, and always think OPSEC when using these forums, email or phone!



OPSEC tips where added because some people like to cry wolf to detour from what the thread is about and what people have posted just to draw a little attention to their negative comments that don't even belong in this thread.

[dislexiclawyer]

Name: Matt
Rank: A1C (E-3)
Branch: Air Force Reserve
Job: 2A732 Nondestructive Inspection
Years of Service: 2 years


Assignments:
1. 442d FW, Whiteman AFB, Missouri, Feb 07 - Present

[Fourth Horseman]

Name: Charles A.K.A. Chuck
Rank: TSgt (E-6)
Branch: Air Force
Job: 2A373 F-15E Crewchief
Years of Service: 17+ years


Strike Eagle crew chief! Right on! :bows:

[TAKEDOWN]

Name: Takedown
Rank: Sgt. (E-5)
Branch: U.S Army
M.O.S: Combat Medic and Infantry
Service: 4 years active & 3 years reserve

[B.C. Bake]

SGT E4 Fourth Combat Comm squadron Clark AFB Philippines,mobile power production, 5 years:coolman:

[airborne_mp84]

SSG Haidara.... U.S. Army.... Military Police Currently at FT Myer VA but I Have orders to FT Bragg North Carolina. Spent time in hohenfels graf and vilseck Germany. Qatar, iraq, kawaitt sorry if i spelled it wrong lol

[finster101]

Sp. 4 James Hardwick. 2d Armored Cavalry Regiment, 19F Tank Driver (last training Co. with that MOS). Bamberg then Nurnberg Germany Feb. 1980 - Oct. 1983.

[Croozer]

USMC
Military Police
Camp Pendleton,CA.

[Hacklemerc]

Sgt Aaron Hackleman
US Army 4yrs
IL National Guard 8 yrs

Tactical Comms and Combat Engineer

Been to Ft. Hood TX, Camp Casey South Korea active.
Worked on the Southwest Border Missions with the Guard, deployed to Iraq during the most current invasion (Camp Anaconda, Abu Ghraib Prison, and a little bit o Baghdad)

[jfclancy]

Name: Joe:beer::beer:
AFSC: 30372 (long range radar maintainer)
after training
Selfridge AFB Mich Apr 66 - Sep 67
Sembach Germany Oct 67- jul 72
Boron Ca Aug 72 sep 73
Sparrevohn alaska Oct 73 oct 74
Montauk NY Nov 74 sep 77
Bremerhaven Germany oct 77 oct 81
Malmstrom MT nov 81 jul 83
Davis monthan AZ Jul 83 Mar 85 RETIRED
moved to DFW area texas Apr 85 to present
Name : Linda :beer::beer:
OCP medic
Jan 66 Jan 86
All over the place
been in DFW since Feb 86 RETIRED

[Bluerauder]

Name: Charles A.K.A. Chally, Charlie
Rank: Major (Retired)
Branch: US Army, Corps of Engineers
Job: 1331 Combat Engineer, 1328 Construction Engineer, 0663 Construction Equipment Maintenance Officer, 21D Engineer
Years of Service: 20 years (1972-1992)


Assignments:
1. 11th Engineer Batallion ("Jungle Cats" -- Black Panthers) 1972-1975
2. 293rd Engineer Battalion (Combat Heavy)/18th Engineer Bde -- 1975-1978
3. Long Island District Recruiting Command -- 1978-1980
4. US Army Corps of Engineer District, Philadelphia -- 1980-1983
5. US Army Engineer School and Center -- 1983-1986
6. HQ US Army Europe, ODCSOPS -- 1986-1989
7. HQ Department of the Army, ODCSOPS, Pentagon -- 1989-1992

[CKMustangCobra]

Name: Christopher Ryan Knight
Rank: Fireman Machinery Technician (E3)
Branch: United States Coast Guard Reserve
Job: Multi-mission. (Law Enforcement, Search and Rescue, NASA Security)
Years of Service: Less than 1 year. Signed for 6, planning on 30.


Assignments:
USCG IADT (Boot Camp), TRACEN Cape May, Cape May, NJ May 13th 2008 - July 3rd 2008
STA Port Canaveral, Cape Canaveral, FL July 17th 2008 - October 15th 2008
USCG Engineering/Weapons Dept Class MK A School, TRACEN Yorktown, Yorktown, VA October 19th 2008 - January 23rd 2009
STA Port Canaveral, Cape Canaveral, FL Feb 7th 2008 - Present

[jabird56]

Name: James A.K.A. Jay
Rank: Retired Limited Duty Officer (prior enlisted)
Branch: US Navy/Naval Reserves
Job: INTEL
Years of Service: 20 years (1974-1994)


Assignments:
1. DC 1995-1977
2. VP-50 (P-3s) Moffett Field, CA (1977-1979)
Deployed to:

Misawa 1978
Kadena 1979
3. DC (1980-1982)
4. Reserves (1982-1994)

Active duty tours at:

Fallon, NV (2 tours with VFP-306, a RF-8 Crusader Squadron)
London, UK (3 tours)
Pensacola, FL (1 tour)
Colorado Springs, CO (1 tour)
Honolulu, HI (3 tours)
El Paso, TX (1 tour)
ChonBuri, Thailand (1 tour)

[Sir Charles]

Strike Eagle crew chief! Right on! :bows:


Yes I have been here for 10 years now.

[Fourth Horseman]

Yes I have been here for 10 years now.

I'd love to pick your brain about the Sniper XR pods and a bunch of Mud Hen related stuff, but I guess a lot of that probably isn't for public consumption. OPSEC and all. ;)

[Speed]

Name: Tony a.k.a. Speed
Rank: SFC
Branch: US Army
Job: Medic
Years of Service: 16 years (4 more to go)


Assignments:
1. Sinai, Egypt
2. FT Riley, KS
3. FT Myer, VA (The Old Guard)
4. FT Bragg, NC
5. Korea (twice)
6. FT Hood, TX (twice)
7. Honduras
8. FT Rucker, AL

Deployed to:
Iraq

[ParkRanger]

Name: Charles A.K.A. Chally, Charlie
Rank: Major (Retired)
Branch: US Army, Corps of Engineers
Job: 1331 Combat Engineer, 1328 Construction Engineer, 0663 Construction Equipment Maintenance Officer, 21D Engineer
Years of Service: 20 years (1972-1992)


Major .. after 20 years ..... Interesting.

[CKMustangCobra]

Major .. after 20 years ..... Interesting.

My father was a Major in the Marine Corps... ret. after 12 years. 14 years enlisted Navy.

[Iowa Rick]

Name: Richard A.K.A. Iowa Rick
Rank: SMSgt (E-8)
Branch: Air Force
Job: Special Agent, Air Force Office if Special Investigation, Technical Services
Years of Service: 20+ years Retired


Assignments:
1. Turner AFB, Georgia
2. Wurtsmith AFB, Michigan
3. Offutt AFB, Nebraska
4. Lakenheath and Mildenhall AB United Kingdom
5. Kadena AFB, Okinawa
6. Blytheville AFB, Arkansas
7. Yokota AFB, Japan
8. Frankfurt AB, Germany
9. Bolling AFB, Washington DC

[Marauder_Santa]

USAF Retired E7
10 years active duty
18 years Reserves
AFSC: 2T271 - Air Transportation

Assignments
Andersen AFB Guam 1976 - 1978
Osan AB Korea 1978 - 1979
Homestead AFB Fl 1979 - 1981
Andersen AB Guam 1981 - 1984
Travis AFB Ca (Active) 1984 - 1985
Travis AFB Ca (Reserves) 1985 - 1986
Andersen AFB Guam (Reserves) 1986 - 1987
Travis AFB Ca (Reserves) 1987 - 1991
Kelly AFB Tx (Reserves) 1991 - 1994
Dobbins ARB Ga. (Reserves) 1994 - 2004

[joedee]

US ARMY 1970 and 71
SP4 served in Okinawa in med depot support for Nam.

The Good old days?

[oldMarauderDrvr]

USMC Sergeant E5
3 years active duty @ Marine Barracks Rota Spain
3 years Reserves, VMA 322 South Weymouth, MA
3 years Army - 2nd Lt - Platoon Leader Mechanized Infantry

[UncleLar]

US ARMY 1970 and 71
SP4 served in Okinawa in med depot support for Nam.

The Good old days?
I remember seeing the black painted B52's take off from Okinawa loaded down with 500 pounders and scads more of them hanging from the wings and seeing the wings sagging.Them things were very impressive and I still remember thinking I wouldn't want to be on the receiving of their loads.They reminded me of giant angry versions of those black mud dauber wasps that get a couple inches long.
US Navy 2/69-12/72
Diesel Engineman
USS Whitfield County LST 1169
USS Holmes County LST 836
USS Hancock CVA 19

[joedee]

That would have been from the air field near Naha. I was stationed at Kadena. (not sure about the spelling anymore) I remember seeing the black spy jet there. That was something to see. Lot of folks spent time in Okinawa. Wonder how many on this site?

[Marauder_Santa]

I was TDY to Kadena several times while stationed on Guam.


That would have been from the air field near Naha. I was stationed at Kadena. (not sure about the spelling anymore) I remember seeing the black spy jet there. That was something to see. Lot of folks spent time in Okinawa. Wonder how many on this site?

[joedee]

I was TDY to Kadena several times while stationed on Guam.

Ever get over to BC street? I think it was in Kosa city. Was a fun time.

Joe:beer:

[Bluerauder]

I was TDY to Kadena several times while stationed on Guam.

My Brother-in-Law (USAF E-9 Retired) was stationed at Kadena AB & Naha, Okinawa and at Andersen AB, Guam during the 1970's. He retired in 1978. He & his family were on Guam when a major Typoon hit the island in '77-'78 and nearly flattened everything. Major recovery effort.

On Christmas Eve '76 or '77 he made a 3-way phonelink through the MARS radio system. He and my sister were in Guam, I was in Germany, and we connected to my parents in Maryland. That was one of my more memorable phone calls ..... Over. :D Talk about long distance.

[pacammer]

Highest Rank: Captain
Branches: MP, Infantry, Eng, MI
Positions: Inf Co. Cmd, Spec Ops Ranger Halo Team Leader,
Cmd. EPW / CI Facility, Op Off. EPW / CI Advisary
Team, Drill Instructor (Cpl), Combat Leader.
Locations: 47 different countries
Service: 23+ years
Reason for Retirement: I was ridden hard and put up wet, one too many times.

[JUST 1BULLITT]

Active Duty Army LTC (O-5) 21 years and counting this May!
Infantry NG Enlisted time; topped @ E-5/went ROTC and have made it to 0-5; long haul but worth it of course! Commissioned an Armor Officer - Desert Storm Veteran w/ 1st Inf. Div. "The Big Red One!" Did a couple tours in Iraq, to include first invasion etc. Have served in MI, ADA officer billets...currently an Action Officer puke at Leavenworth now!
THANKS to all for your service, Past & Present! Way to go & Carry On! :beer:

[pacammer]

To All.

I commend every service member and the families of the service members who support us as we serve our Country.

Cpt. Ski

[DarthMarauder]

Name: Vance
Branch: USMC
Rank: LCpl (E-3) Joined when I was 26 kinda a late bloomer
Job: 0313, 0311 LAV Crewman and Infantry (Currently a gunner on a LAV, I get to shoot the big gun)
Places: Currently stationed at Camp Lejeune, NC
Camp Pendleton, CA
Parris Island, SC
Al Anbar, Iraq
29 Palms, CA
probably another part of the middle east with the next deployment

[Windsor58]

I'm just a civilian, but still want to thank all of you for your service.

Over my 29 years with defense contractors (yeah, I'm one of those slimy contractors), I have worked closely with a lot of military and other government agency folks. You guys rock!

I've been to many places - too many to list and some I can't, all over the world.
All good memories and good folks.

[teamrope]

SFC 26.5 years - Officially retire 30 April 2009
US Army
Infantry, Signal & Recruiter
Ft Hood, Korea, Germany and Ft Lewis.
26.5 years - Officially retire 30 April 2009

[Big House]

William House
Air Guard E-7
6F071 - Finance

Air Force Academy cadet 93-95
Active Guardsman ever since 96 - 5 and a half to retirement

[Joe Walsh]

William House
Air Guard E-7
6F071 - Finance

Air Force Academy cadet 93-95
Active Guardsman ever since 96 - 5 and a half to retirement

William!
How have you been?
Haven't seen you since...probably the CAM meet at Bert's in Southern Md.
How is the little lady and your two sons?
Got to catch up with you this Spring.

Take care,
Joe

BTW: LOVE THE RIMS!!
:2thumbs:

[2,4shofast]

Jason Bearden
Air Force Active Duty
E-5 SSgt
2W071 AMMO
10 years service

Assignments:
Mountain Home AFB, Idaho 1999-2002
Kunsan AB, South Korea 2002-2003
Aviano AB, Italy 2003-2007
Hill AFB, Utah 2007-Present

Many TDY's and deployments all over.

[Marauder_Santa]

I arrived on Guam New Years eve 1976 just after Typhoon Pamela that came directly over the island. Some houses on base were still in rubble and one of the outdoor theaters was also in pieces.

Many were going through withdrawls because all the Bettle Nut on the island was blown out to sea. Bettle Nut grows wild in the jungle and the locals would chew on it like tobacco.

I loved Guam - it is a small island (36 miles x 6 miles at its widest point) in the middle of nowhere, but close to everything.

I remember the MARS phone system "over". Wow the communication system has come a long way in a short period of time.


My Brother-in-Law (USAF E-9 Retired) was stationed at Kadena AB & Naha, Okinawa and at Andersen AB, Guam during the 1970's. He retired in 1978. He & his family were on Guam when a major Typoon hit the island in '77-'78 and nearly flattened everything. Major recovery effort.

On Christmas Eve '76 or '77 he made a 3-way phonelink through the MARS radio system. He and my sister were in Guam, I was in Germany, and we connected to my parents in Maryland. That was one of my more memorable phone calls ..... Over. :D Talk about long distance.

[TJCOX]

NAME: Tom Cox
Drafted: Sept 66-68
Rank: E-4
Basic: Ft Leonard Mo
A.I.T. " " " "
1st Assignment: Ft. Belvoir Va., 41st Engineer Co.(Port Const) Unit movement.
Boat to Okinawa for 3 days and then to Vung Tau, S.Vietnam.
Ben Hoa Air Base to Long Binh. Jan 67-Jan 68.
2nd Assignment: 367th Transportation Co. Ft. Dix, N.J.
3rd Assignment: TDY: West Point Military Academy, N.Y. (3 mos).
Ets: Fort Dix, N.J. Sep 68.
Active Reserve 2 Yrs. Inactive 2 Yrs.
E.D. Reserves worked for I.S.P.

[Bluerauder]

I arrived on Guam New Years eve 1976 just after Typhoon Pamela that came directly over the island. Some houses on base were still in rubble and one of the outdoor theaters was also in pieces.
Might have been the same Typhoon -- same timeframe in my memory. I remember that he sent me pics of the theather that looked like a "drive in". He had 4 feet of water in his quarters and had moved all of the furniture to the 2nd floor. The building itself held up well to the winds and storm surge.

[ParkRanger]

Ben Hoa Air Base to Long Binh. Jan 67-Jan 68.


Used to take prisoners to/from LBJ (Long Binh Jail).
The Mandarin House was the best restaurant.

[Mike Poore]

U.S.Army
NAME: Mike Poore
Draft dodge/Enlisted: May 1962 RA status
ETS May 1965
Rank: SP-5
Basic: Ft Jackson, SC
Clinical Lab training Ft Sam Houston TX
OJT Ft Dix NJ
Assignment 406th Medical General Laboratory, Sagami Ono, Japan Worked in Entomology lab and traveled throughout Japan studying Japanese B Encephalitis, and Snake and Scorpion LD50's and testing/making anti sera(s)
Back home in Dec 1965 to Tobyhanna Army Depot, PA for ETS

Inactive Reserves in Cleveland control group and Shot the National Matches at Camp Perry for my annual 2 wk Army "vacations"

[TJCOX]

Used to take prisoners to/from LBJ (Long Binh Jail).
The Mandarin House was the best restaurant.
What year(s)?
Check out the 20th Engineer Brigade web page.
I do not recall the Mandarin House.

Tom

[ParkRanger]

What year(s)?
Check out the 20th Engineer Brigade web page.
I do not recall the Mandarin House.

Tom

Mostly '70 - In and out with supply convoys to/from Saigon.
Looked at the site - 20th was a distinguished unit! Were you there with Al Gore?
Mostly remember signal corps and transportation units once inside perimeter.

[ik04]

So what does everyone do and where have you been stationed [at]?


Don't assume the enemy is not trying to collect information on you so he can kill you, he is!

Be smart, use your head, and always think OPSEC when using these forums, email or phone!



Army Aviator, 26 years. Retired. Still flying.

I've been to countries whose names begin with A,H,E(3),I(3),K(3),G,N,F,S,P,J and L.

Eveything else is needt-to-know. :)

[TJCOX]

Mostly '70 - In and out with supply convoys to/from Saigon.
Looked at the site - 20th was a distinguished unit! Were you there with Al Gore?
Mostly remember signal corps and transportation units once inside perimeter.

Don't know if Mr. Gore was stationed there or which unit he was assigned.
Do you recall seeing fuel tankers? We referred to it as "Tanker Valley" which
was located next to our Company. We were under the 18th Engr Brigade,prior to being assigned to the 20th.

Tom.

[CKMustangCobra]

Lots of experience on here.

Since I am still new to all this... I LOVE hearing stories... especially about boot camp.

Anyone got any cool stories on what instructors did to recruits and companies?

[Vortex]

Hey, you're 26, sign up like we did and get your own stories!

[MMBLUE]

Lots of experience on here.

Since I am still new to all this... I LOVE hearing stories... especially about boot camp.

Anyone got any cool stories on what instructors did to recruits and companies?

I was a Drill SGT Trust me I got stories. :banana2:

[Mike Poore]

I got some good stories, one of 'em a classic; but if we start, it's gonna hijack this very interesting thread. Should we start another thread about "war stories"?

[Bluerauder]

Hey, you're 26, sign up like we did and get your own stories!
+1 ^^^^^ I find that most of those "funny" stories weren't really funny at the time. ;)

[MMBLUE]

+1 ^^^^^ I find that most of those "funny" stories weren't really funny at the time. ;)


They're not usually funny to the person that it is happening too.:banana2:

[Marauder_Santa]

Has a new thread been started to tell bootcamp stories?


I got some good stories, one of 'em a classic; but if we start, it's gonna hijack this very interesting thread. Should we start another thread about "war stories"?

[Mike Poore]

Has a new thread been started to tell bootcamp stories?

Not yet, far as I know, I was just asking, in case there was interest. Want to start one?

[CKMustangCobra]

Hey, you're 26, sign up like we did and get your own stories!

Ugh... I did. I'm less than a year in.

[Dr Caleb]

Name: Glenn ..... (I don't post the rest on the Web)
Rank: Signalman
Branch: 2 Commando, Canadian Airborne Regiment
Job: Signal OPs, ASST
Years of Service: 5 Years


Assignments:
1) 'Night' tour of CFS Alert
2) Operation Deliverance, Western Sahara Desert
3) UNPROFOR, Pink zone, sector south, Croatia. (with the 2nd PPCLI)

Things I learned on duty:
If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it.
Not allowed to title any report 'Get Over it'.
Not allowed to let sock puppets take command of my post.
Must get a haircut even if it tampers with my 'Sampson like powers'.
Not allowed to sing 'High Speed Dirt' by Megadeth during air jump operations. ('See the earth below/Soon to make a crater/Blue sky, black death/ I'm off to meet my maker')
Camouflage body paint is not a uniform. And they can still see me.
There is no ‘Anti-Mime' campaign in Bosnia.
Crucifixes do not ward off officers, and I should not test that.
A smiley face is not used to mark a minefield.
Claymore mines are not filled with yummy candy, and it is wrong to tell new soldiers that they are.
I may not trade my rifle for any of the following: Cigarettes, booze, sexual favors, Kalishnikovs, Soviet Armored vehicles, small children, or bootleg CD’s.
I should not teach other soldiers to say offensive and crude things in Serbian or Russian, under the guise of teaching them how to say potentially useful phrases.
I am not authorized to sell mineral rights.
When detained by MP's, I do not have a right to a strip search.
I should not confess to crimes that took place before I was born.
There is no such thing as a were-virgin.
Our assault vehicles cannot be assembled into a giant battle-robot.
Not allowed to lead a 'Coup' during training missions.
Not authorized to initiate Jihad.

[DWSTANG67]

Name: Dean W Pae
Rank: TSgt (E-6)
Branch: New Jersey Air National Guard full time AGR
Job: 2A675 pneudraulics and Crew Chief C-32, Kc-135Eand R
Years of Service 20

[Haggis]

Name: Glenn ..... (I don't post the rest on the Web)
Rank: Signalman
Branch: 2 Commando, Canadian Airborne Regiment
Job: Signal OPs, ASST
Years of Service: 5 Years


Assignments:
1) 'Night' tour of CFS Alert
2) Operation Deliverance, Western Sahara Desert
3) UNPROFOR, Pink zone, sector south, Croatia. (with the 2nd PPCLI)

Things I learned on duty:
If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it.
Not allowed to title any report 'Get Over it'.
Not allowed to let sock puppets take command of my post.
Must get a haircut even if it tampers with my 'Sampson like powers'.
Not allowed to sing 'High Speed Dirt' by Megadeth during air jump operations. ('See the earth below/Soon to make a crater/Blue sky, black death/ I'm off to meet my maker')
Camouflage body paint is not a uniform. And they can still see me.
There is no ‘Anti-Mime' campaign in Bosnia.
Crucifixes do not ward off officers, and I should not test that.
A smiley face is not used to mark a minefield.
Claymore mines are not filled with yummy candy, and it is wrong to tell new soldiers that they are.
I may not trade my rifle for any of the following: Cigarettes, booze, sexual favors, Kalishnikovs, Soviet Armored vehicles, small children, or bootleg CD’s.
I should not teach other soldiers to say offensive and crude things in Serbian or Russian, under the guise of teaching them how to say potentially useful phrases.
I am not authorized to sell mineral rights.
When detained by MP's, I do not have a right to a strip search.
I should not confess to crimes that took place before I was born.
There is no such thing as a were-virgin.
Our assault vehicles cannot be assembled into a giant battle-robot.
Not allowed to lead a 'Coup' during training missions.
Not authorized to initiate Jihad.

^^^:laugh:^^^

You and I need to talk.

[Dr Caleb]

^^^:laugh:^^^

You and I need to <strike>talk</strike> drink.

Drink? Drink you say! Be sure Ladyhawke has extra bail money.

6 months of 'dark' (the "night shift") at CFS Alert (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=cfs+alert&jsv=148e&sll=81.873641,-73.125&sspn=21.750162,139.746094&ie=UTF8&ei=ctquSa_sB5W8M9nDpbQB&cd=1&cid=82499444,-62334722,10448133853649650041&li=lmd) makes a guy kind of extra cabin feverish.

[Bluerauder]

FYI. The guy who started this thread made a couple more posts and then disappeared into the woodwork in just 2 days. Hasn't been heard from since. :dunno: Hasn't visited since 22 Feb.

[Dr Caleb]

FYI. The guy who started this thread made a couple more posts and then disappeared into the woodwork in just 2 days. Hasn't been heard from since. :dunno: Hasn't visited since 22 Feb.

It's OK. He can't authorize me to initiate Jihad anyhow.