Ford has no plans for St. Thomas plant after 2011

[mercury_1988]

By NORMAN DE BONO, (ndebono@lfpress.com) LONDON FREE PRESS (http://www.lfpress.com/)

Staggered in recent years by layoffs and slumping sales, the Ford St. Thomas assembly plant has been dealt what may be its final body blow.
In a recent meeting with Ford of Canada, Canadian Auto Workers union officials were told all three vehicles made at the plant will be phased out — and no replacement vehicles are planned after 2011.
"You do not have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. If we do not have a new product they will close the plant," said Scott Smith, chairperson of CAW Local 1520 at the plant.
"There are a lot of people's livelihoods at stake here and it is hard for people to hear what the reality is."
But Ford stopped short of saying it is a plant closure — meaning the CAW will work for two years to bargain with Ford and lobby for provincial and federal government support to retool and try land a new vehicle for the plant, he added.



"The fact of the matter is we have a lot of work to do and we all have to come together to make this happen," said Smith.
While Ford announced after its 2008 agreement there was no product planned for St. Thomas, this announcement goes further in saying there is no chance for an extension, said Dennis DesRosiers, national automotive analyst.
"It is nothing new, but they have not been as firm as this appears to be," said DesRosier. "This plant has been on the bubble for a long time. It does not look good."
The plant Wednesday begins a six-week summer shutdown. It has just over 1,400 hourly employees and less than 100 salaried workers.
The CAW's meeting with Joe Hendricks, vice-president Ford of Canada was held in Windsor Monday afternoon.
The St. Thomas plant assembles the Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, and Lincoln Town Car, all large rear-wheel drive cars, and Ford is already positioning the Taurus to take over its fleet taxi and police-cruiser sales, and has a replacement planned for the Town Car. It will cease production of its slow selling Grand Marquis, said CAW national president Ken Lewenza.
Those vehicles would need a redesign and new technology investment to meet new fuel and safety standards, and Ford made it clear it is focusing on new, fuel-efficient vehicles and not big cars, said Lewenza.
"All of the cars now made in St. Thomas would need significant investment.
They are looking for alternative vehicles," said Lewenza. "They need to make a huge investment, and they will not make it on these products, that was clear," he added.

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Business/2009/07/07/10053486.html

I'm very disappointed :shake: .

[Krytin]

So lets buy all of the tooling and the plant and keep making our own cars!

I know but it;s just a little hard to acept all at once.

[mercury_1988]

This is the first Mercury Marauder was produced on May 16, 2002 in St. Thomas plant.

http://www.autointell.com/News-2002/May-2002/May-2002-2/Mercury-Marauder-2003.jpg

http://www.autointell.com/News-2002/May-2002/May-2002-2/May-16-02-p3.htm

[Wires]

It looks like the politicians are going to force us to drive Wrong Wheel Drive death traps, no matter what we actually want.

Welcome to Amerika.

[FordNut]

It looks like the politicians are going to force us to drive Wrong Wheel Drive death traps, no matter what we actually want.

Welcome to Amerika.

That's what helped drive up imports of BMW and Mercedes the last time they tried it.

[babbage]

It really is sad. I always thought the mileage was very good for such a big car.

[Wires]

What concerns me is that no one considers the amount someone drives.

If I drive 1000 miles a year, in a car that gets 20 MPG, that's 50 gallons of gasoline a year.

Someone who drives a death-trap that gets 50 MPG but drives 2500 miles per year uses the same 50 gallons.

It's perfectly acceptable in this county to live 100 miles from where you work, but if you live 5 miles from where you work and drive a "gas guzzler" you are demonized and criticized mercilessly. Fuel consumption is gallons per mile multiplied by distance driven. No one seems to care about the second term of the equation.

It's better for the environment for folks who don't drive much to drive these cars rather than scrap them and build more cars - even if they are fuel efficient.

That's my biggest problem with environmentalist - they don't look at the big picture or consider that people have needs as well.

My opinion is that the government has no business telling us how many miles per gallon our cars must get. If enough people want a large, rear-drive car, Ford should be allowed to make it and sell it. If no one does, we don't need a government regulation to prevent it.

[Bradley G]

(Quote)Those vehicles would need a redesign and new technology investment to meet new fuel and safety standards, and Ford made it clear it is focusing on new, fuel-efficient vehicles and not big cars, said Lewenza.
"All of the cars now made in St. Thomas would need significant investment.

Since the tooling has been paid for since 1999,
you would think Ford could spend some dough to keep the Icon and gussy her up.
Ford is Not interested in making big cars huh?
Get in the 2010 Taurus or the Lincoln MKS,... "LIARS!!!" :D

[SC Cheesehead]

....That's my biggest problem with environmentalist - they don't look at the big picture or consider that people have needs as well.

My opinion is that the government has no business telling us how many miles per gallon our cars must get. If enough people want a large, rear-drive car, Ford should be allowed to make it and sell it. If no one does, we don't need a government regulation to prevent it.

+1

Welcome to Socialist Amerika

Change you can believe in....:rolleyes:

[Dr Caleb]

+1

Welcome to Socialist Amerika

Change you can believe in....:rolleyes:

Repeat after me; Ca-Na-Da. St. Thomas, Ontario is in Ca-Na-Da.

[vonirkinshtine]

But Ford is H-Q'd in Amerika.

[Wires]

But Ford is H-Q'd in Amerika.

And the aforementioned regulations are for AM-ERR-EE-KA, where these cars, made in CAN-A-DUH for AM ERR EE KA are sold by FORD, an AM-ERR-EE-CAN company.

[Dr Caleb]

In a recent meeting with Ford of Canada, Canadian Auto Workers union officials were told all three vehicles made at the plant will be phased out — and no replacement vehicles are planned after 2011.

I didn't realize Ford Canada LTD. was suddenly nationalized like GM and Chrysler. Apologies for my ignorance.

[Wires]

I didn't realize Ford Canada LTD. was suddenly nationalized like GM and Chrysler. Apologies for my ignorance.

Makes no difference if they are separate or the same.

These cars won't be continued because Ford (USA OR CANADA, doesn't matter) doesn't want to put the money into them to make them meet the FUEL STANDARDS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERIKA passed by the US CONGRESS.


The opposite of PRO is CON.

PROGRESS - moving forward. CONGRESS = ??????

[SC Cheesehead]

Makes no difference if they are separate or the same.

These cars won't be continued because Ford (USA OR CANADA, doesn't matter) doesn't want to put the money into them to make them meet the FUEL STANDARDS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERIKA passed by the US CONGRESS.


The opposite of PRO is CON.

PROGRSS - moving forwared. CONGRESS = ??????

Exactly the point I was making.

It doesn't make any difference where the cars ar produced, we've got the government mandating what kind of cars we are to drive. Rather than allow a market-driven economy to establish what cars the public wants and will or will not buy, the Imperial Government of Amerika has decided they'll make the decision for us.....:shake:

[Wires]

Before long, we'll have to buy at least one car from Government Motors. When the govt. owns a car company, what's to stop them from passing such a law?

[LIGHTNIN1]

I can't wait for the new Fiats to be imported. Maybe I can find a Morris Minor for sale.:puke:

[Dr Caleb]

These cars won't be continued because Ford (USA OR CANADA, doesn't matter) doesn't want to put the money into them to make them meet the FUEL STANDARDS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERIKA passed by the US CONGRESS.



Rather than allow a market-driven economy to establish what cars the public wants and will or will not buy, the Imperial Government of Amerika has decided they'll make the decision for us.....:shake:

Sounds to me like the Government is doing what it is supposed to, by lowing fuel usage and not sending more money than necessary to people using it to try to kill you; it is trying to protect it's citizens from harm. And the free market decided that it's not economical to retool it's product to meet that same standard. I still don't see where the many headed demon 'socialism' enters into it.

I am of course disappointed, because several of my last vehicles came out of that plant. But despite my cursing Ford for making bad choices in my opinion, they have weathered this recession better than most companies. So, they must be doing something right.

[Wires]

Sounds to me like the Government is doing what it is supposed to, by lowing fuel usage and not sending more money than necessary to people using it to try to kill you; it is trying to protect it's citizens from harm. And the free market decided that it's not economical to retool it's product to meet that same standard. I still don't see where the many headed demon 'socialism' enters into it.



I strongly disagree. The govt. has no business telling companies what they can make, or legislating performance characteristics for any product.

What's next? Regulating restaurants? Sorry, you can't serve XXX because it has too many calories. Nevermind that some people are responsible enough to only eat a high calorie food every once in a while. We can't rely on personal responsibility - let the govermment act as our parent.

Sorry, you can't buy YYY because it doesn't work well. Don't consider that I may want it anyway, or am smart enough to use it for my needs, which may differ from the opinion of some goverment bueaurocrat.

Too many people want the government to be a nanny - they want to abdicate freedom so they don't have to be responsible for themselves. Anyone who lives close to work, and can afford the gas for a big RWD car should be able to buy one, not be forced to buy a wrong-wheel drive death trap because our Imperial Federal Government has dictated that one's vehicle must get x miles per gallon. What if I don't drive as much? (sorry, I'm repeating previous posts.) Again, I should be able to make the decision for myself based on my needs and circumstances.

Mindless government regulation is a poor substitute for a free market with personal responsibility. Look how well it worked in the Soviet Union.

Welcome to Amerika.

[Badger]

What tickles me is the new SHO gets the same gas milage as a supercharged MM.
Great progress there. Wanna make a bet that engine will not make it to 100k like the S/C MM DOHC.

[SC Cheesehead]

Sounds to me like the Government is doing what it is supposed to, by lowing fuel usage and not sending more money than necessary to people using it to try to kill you; it is trying to protect it's citizens from harm. And the free market decided that it's not economical to retool it's product to meet that same standard. I still don't see where the many headed demon 'socialism' enters into it.

What the heck kind of convoluted statement is that?

[Dr Caleb]

What the heck kind of convoluted statement is that?

Nouns, adverbs. Punctuation.

[Dr Caleb]

I strongly disagree. The govt. has no business telling companies what they can make, or legislating performance characteristics for any product.


On that we disagree. The Canadian governement heavily regulates the Banking industry for example. In the last few years they were unsuccessfully lobbied by interest groups who wanted to create all sorts of shady 'investment' vehicles and do all sorts of 'mergers'. As a result of this latest crisis, we have had to bail out our banks to the tune of $0.

Sometimes business needs regulations, or bad things happen. The government it there to protect the citizens. Companies are free to make whatever they want, but there is no 'right to make profit' in the Constitution of either of our countries. But there is a right to 'safety and security'.



What's next? Regulating restaurants? Sorry, you can't serve XXX because it has too many calories. Nevermind that some people are responsible enough to only eat a high calorie food every once in a while. We can't rely on personal responsibility - let the govermment act as our parent.

If needed, why not? Some people don't have the self control that others do. They text while driving, drive drunk, ride on the outside of a moving vehicle, eat fatty foods and get no exercise. Sometimes they need a push in a certain direction.

I don't know why some people need to be legislated to stop doing what is bad for them; but they do.




Too many people want the government to be a nanny - they want to abdicate freedom so they don't have to be responsible for themselves. Anyone who lives close to work, and can afford the gas for a big RWD car should be able to buy one, not be forced to buy a wrong-wheel drive death trap because our Imperial Federal Government has dictated that one's vehicle must get x miles per gallon. What if I don't drive as much? (sorry, I'm repeating previous posts.) Again, I should be able to make the decision for myself based on my needs and circumstances.

I quite agree, I am all about personal responsibility. But I can also understand why certain things are required of vehicles. Seat belts, for example. I'd love to rebuild a Leopard tank, and drive it to work, but the damage to the roads that my taxes pay for would be astronomical. I can understand a regulation that prevents me and everyone else from doing that. If I didn't like it, I am free to buy property and build my own road to do as I please.

I can also understand minimum fuel economy standards, when that fuel is itself a danger to the safety and well being of citizens. It's a little pain now, or a lot of pain later.



Mindless government regulation is a poor substitute for a free market with personal responsibility. Look how well it worked in the Soviet Union.

Welcome to Amerika.

I thought we agree, people lack personal responsibility? And what does that have to do with a dictatorship?

[SC Cheesehead]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Caleb http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=780609#post78 0609)
Sounds to me like the Government is doing what it is supposed to, by lowing fuel usage and not sending more money than necessary to people using it to try to kill you; it is trying to protect it's citizens from harm. And the free market decided that it's not economical to retool it's product to meet that same standard. I still don't see where the many headed demon 'socialism' enters into it.

What the heck kind of convoluted statement is that?


Nouns, adverbs. Punctuation.

Yeah, the only thing missing is logic....:rolleyes:

[Dr Caleb]

What the heck kind of convoluted statement is that?

Yeah, the only thing missing is logic....:rolleyes:

Seems pretty straight forward.

You import oil because there is not enough domestic production to meet your needs; some of that oil (the cheapest) comes from the middle east.

http://www.meforum.org/934/does-saudi-arabia-fund-terrorism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Victory-Winning-Terror-Breaking/dp/1591025915/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208199699&sr=1-1
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/DCH109A.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html

So, in order to make citizens safer, you need to use less imported oil.

A -> B -> C

[SC Cheesehead]

What is the function of govermment?

"Government has three purposes:


Provide for the common defense (against external threats)
Provide for the enforcement of contracts
Coin money to support trade

These functions are then expanded by contracts amongst free peoples as exemplified by the US Constitution, which includes the original answer:


The function of government is to protect individual rights.

Simple examples:


Defense - a nation which does not control its borders is not a nation
Enforcing contracts ... ever see how contracts get enforced when the courts do not have jurisdiction? Think gang-shootings and knee-capping.
Coin money ... try taking 400 bushels of $4 corn to the stereo shop"
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_function_of_govern ment

NOTE: Regulating the &*$# out of people's choices, the economy, etc. because "government knows what's best for all of us" is not within the scope of either a republic or a democracy.

The form of government you refer to, ""A political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)" has another name: fascism

[Dr Caleb]

The form of government you refer to, ""A political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)" has another name: fascism

ROFL.

One definition of 'Facism' is when the rights of a Corporation override the rights of a Citizen. Exactly what you are advocating. I'll wait here while you look it up.

Ok, I'll do the work for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Frankli n_D._Roosevelt


“ The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. ”

— Franklin D. Roosevelt, "Message from the President of the United States Transmitting Recommendations Relative to the Strengthening and Enforcement of Anti-trust Laws"

[SC Cheesehead]

You're right Caleb, I give up.

All companies are evil, whose sole pupose is to gather in huge profits at the expense of all else; and I as an individual, am too dumb or undisciplined to be able to think or decide for myself, thus, only government can save, a fact of which I am either unaware or ungrateful.

Maybe I should move to Canada where the "truly enlightened" live. :rolleyes:

[cassidy]

I smell Ph.D. (piled higher and deeper) :confused:

I think someone drank the kool-aid :confused:


(s-o-c-i-a-l-i-s-t)


P.S. Is it true his name is really Barry Soetoro??? :beatnik:
(Do an Internet search...this is serious)


Cassidy :eek:

[Dr Caleb]

You're right Caleb, I give up.

All companies are evil, whose sole pupose is to gather in huge profits at the expense of all else; and I as an individual, am too dumb or undisciplined to be able to think or decide for myself, thus, only government can save, a fact of which I am either unaware or ungrateful.

Maybe I should move to Canada where the "truly enlightened" live. :rolleyes:

Yes, and while you are packing up, I'll try to figure out why you always get pissed off at me when we try to have a rational discussion using things like facts.

[SC Cheesehead]

I smell Ph.D. (piled higher and deeper) :confused:

I think someone drank the kool-aid :confused:


(s-o-c-i-a-l-i-s-t)


P.S. Is it true his name is really Barry Soetoro??? :beatnik:
(Do an Internet search...this is serious)


Cassidy :eek:

No sense trying to rationalize with him Cassidy, we're just two of the "dumb masses" that naively believe capitalism is superior to socialism. Perhaps some day we'll learn.

I just hope it's not in my lifetime. ;)

[Dr Caleb]

Capitalism and socialism aren't opposites. Of the G8 Countries, 7 are 'socialist'.

Why do you resist? ;)

[SC Cheesehead]

Capitalism and socialism aren't opposites. Of the G8 Countries, 7 are 'socialist'.

Why do you resist? ;)

Caleb, you're starting to sound like a Borg....:lol:

[Dr Caleb]

Caleb, you're starting to sound like a Borg....:lol:

We only want to improve the quality of life for everyone!

[SC Cheesehead]

We only want to improve the quality of life for everyone!


Ummmmm, yeah....

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Trap-of-Socialism-and-Communism---Sounds-Good-in-the-Beginning&id=518605

[Dr Caleb]

Ummmmm, yeah....

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Trap-of-Socialism-and-Communism---Sounds-Good-in-the-Beginning&id=518605

Yes, another article to keep you scared. Like I said, of the G-8 (top 8 economic) countries currently meting in Italy, only 1 is not Socialist. That is the USofA.

http://www.g8italia2009.it/G8/G8-G8_Layout_locale-1199882116809_Home.htm

And, my quote was a reference to Picard/Locutus speaking to Worf, in "The best of Both Worlds, Part 2"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeta_Alpha_II

[SC Cheesehead]

Is it possible (probable) that the "1 of 8" is the only country that really has it figured out? :)

And yes, I picked up on the quote, I'm a Trekkie from waaaay back! ;)

[n3fvg]

Boo! Hiss!

[Dr Caleb]

Is it possible (probable) that the "1 of 8" is the only country that really has it figured out? :)

And yes, I picked up on the quote, I'm a Trekkie from waaaay back! ;)

Or, the 'one' just has that memo in their 'inbox' still. ;)

*whew* I was going to ask you to return your pocket protector at the door.

[mercury_1988]

Seems pretty straight forward.

You import oil because there is not enough domestic production to meet your needs; some of that oil (the cheapest) comes from the middle east.

http://www.meforum.org/934/does-saudi-arabia-fund-terrorism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Victory-Winning-Terror-Breaking/dp/1591025915/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208199699&sr=1-1
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/DCH109A.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html

So, in order to make citizens safer, you need to use less imported oil.

A -> B -> C


the 9-11 commission found no persuasive evidence that the government of Saudi Arabia as an institution, or senior officials within the government of Saudi Arabia, knowingly supported al-Qaeda.

According to this link :

http://www.mideastyouth.com/2007/04/14/al-qaeda-cia-egg-chicken/


Applying the same logic to Al-Qaeda & CIA. Al-Qaeda is a brainchild of CIA to help CIA against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Now if the same Al-Qaeda is acting against the interests of CIA and killing innocent people, who should be blamed, Al-Qaeda or CIA. As a matter of fact, they are still doing what CIA trained them to do. Kill people

[SC Cheesehead]

Or, the 'one' just has that memo in their 'inbox' still. ;)

*whew* I was going to ask you to return your pocket protector at the door.


Don't mess with my pocket protector, and leave my red stapler alone. :D

[Motorhead350]

Looks like I will be saving for a 2011 Panther... Last Days. :alone:

[mercury_1988]

The end of an era :( .

[Vortex]

Glad I got my 09 GM when I could.

[Motorhead350]

Even if the Panther Platform was new and improved I don't believe I would like it. It would become closer to the norm of what cars have become.

[JUST 1BULLITT]

Yeah, guess we'd best get our orders IN or buy the LAST of these great cars...I've thought about getting a Town Car for a long time - just always thought it'd be when I was a bit older! lol! I've been concerned the last several months because you hit the Dealerships and they don't even MENTION the venerable 'Town Car' anymore in any of their literature and they don't have ANY Brochures about them...same for the Navigators - UGH! The END of and ERA is right -- hopefully not the END of our Way of Life and the Liberty we've enjoyed too as others have already aptly pointed out! :(

[Aren Jay]

.........................

[cassidy]

Wish you had the money to make it happen...amazing ideas...just remember only the "L" body Panthers...the extra six inches really makes it more comfortable to enter and exit and sit in the back seat...and it bother environmental wackos even more.

[biodole]

I just died a little inside =(