Cash for clunkers. Discuss

[Motorhead350]

I thought we discussed this before, but I didn't find anything in the search. Let's not get political and stick to the subject of the concept.

Here is what I have concludded:

It seems like a good idea to boost sales of new cars and get action going again. People will want to jump on this to get $3,500 for their $1,300 car and get a new one on top of it. Dealerships will have new business and finally be able to get some cars off the lot and bring some business back. Plants will operate more and workers will finally have solid work again.

Now what seems wrong is this isn't doing the earth any favors. The point of cash for clunkers is to get more cars on the road that require less fuel right? Well producing a new car will mean we will have to burn more coal to power autoplant, shipping, exc. When a new part goes wrong it will have to be made and pressed new at the plant, shipped over exc. That is not saving fuel.

The cars being taken off the road... let's think here. They have already been built so there is no need to use a ton of power to make another. The "clunkers" will have reached an age where you can obtain parts at junkyards. What does it take to keep a junkyard going? Pretty much nothing compared to a autoplant. Pretty much all power is in the checkout area and if any actual fuel is being used, it's to power the crushers and equipment to move the cars around. I bet it's not even 1% of what an autoplant uses day for day plant for plant.

My conclusion is cash for clunkers will help sell new cars, but it's taking a step in reverse to reduce pollution.

Your thoughts?

[cassidy]

It is hard not to get political with barry soetoro but the bottom line with cash for clunkers is that it should have been ONLY good for vouchers from vehicles from FORD, GENERAL MOTORS, or CHRYSLER. Why are we stimulating nissan's economy in Japan???

We are just too dumb to buy American!

[UncleLar]

It is hard not to get political with barry soetoro but the bottom line with cash for clunkers is that it should have been ONLY good for vouchers from vehicles from FORD, GENERAL MOTORS, or CHRYSLER. Why are we stimulating nissan's economy in Japan???

We are just too dumb to buy American!

Right Friggin On!

[Phrog_gunner]

It is hard not to get political with barry soetoro but the bottom line with cash for clunkers is that it should have been ONLY good for vouchers from vehicles from FORD, GENERAL MOTORS, or CHRYSLER. Why are we stimulating nissan's economy in Japan???

We are just too dumb to buy American!

Well all of the major Japanese companies have plants in the US now, so it is helping American jobs.

[UncleLar]

Well all of the major Japanese companies have plants in the US now, so it is helping American jobs.
Yeah,but it ain't really doing much for the trade imbalance.

[Aren Jay]

Getting cash for a cluncker is one thing but selling an old car never makes sense when you then buy a new car.

Old car is worth $3500

New car is $20,000

That means it costs you $16,500 for the new car, which you have to pay for.

For $3500 you could have gotten your clunker repaired, very well, and saved $13,000.

Of that $13,000 you will spend it and lose $6000 the first year in depreciation. Another $2000 each successive year until it is worth about a $1000 in 9 or 10 years. After three years $10000 is gone. Also you will have to pay higher car insurance each year as your car now is worth more than the clunker, this will offset any MPG improvement and gas money savings for atleast 6 years. The warranty will be costing you that $10,000 plus any additional costs thus that idea is bad.

It makes much better sense to keep your money, fix up your clunker and drive it, insure it for much less and save your money!

You are still in a recession, you're going to need that money.

[SC Cheesehead]

Getting cash for a cluncker is one thing but selling an old car never makes sense when you then buy a new car.

Old car is worth $3500

New car is $20,000

That means it costs you $16,500 for the new car, which you have to pay for.

For $3500 you could have gotten your clunker repaired, very well, and saved $13,000.

Of that $13,000 you will spend it and lose $6000 the first year in depreciation. Another $2000 each successive year until it is worth about a $1000 in 9 or 10 years. After three years $10000 is gone. Also you will have to pay higher car insurance each year as your car now is worth more than the clunker, this will offset any MPG improvement and gas money savings for atleast 6 years. The warranty will be costing you that $10,000 plus any additional costs thus that idea is bad.

It makes much better sense to keep your money, fix up your clunker and drive it, insure it for much less and save your money!

You are still in a recession, you're going to need that money.

AJ, right on target! :up:

The whole "cash for clunkers" is nothing more than a political mechanism contrived to try an spur the auto industry, and IMO was poorly thought out and will have little or no impact on the current economic slump, and as Dom pointed out sure as heck won't have any signifiicant positive effect on the environment.

I mean, if a person is worried about a layoff or a cut-back in hours, does anyone (e.g. the government) really think they're going to be motivated to go out and take on more debt by trading in their car just to take advantage of a $3,500 to $4,500 incentive....:shake:

Change you can believe in.

[jonroe]

One aspect I don't like about the program is the requirement to destroy parts of the clunker. These parts are or will be very usable for people in the future to restore "classic" cars when some of these clunkers actually become classics. I hate to see perfectly good auto parts destroyed.

[SC Cheesehead]

One aspect I don't like about the program is the requirement to destroy parts of the clunker. These parts are or will be very usable for people in the future to restore "classic" cars when some of these clunkers actually become classics. I hate to see perfectly good auto parts destroyed.


Yup. Stoopid, stoopid, stoopid, no matter how you look at it...

[CBT]

Here in the Communistwealth of Virginia, they tax your vehicle (and everything else come to think of it) based on the bluebook value EVERY year you own it. So on top of losing money by buying a new car, your twice yearly tax on it will also go up.
And since Barry Soetoro came up, part of his oath of office to the Illinois senate included the question "have you ever been known by any other name?" Barrack (who used to be Barry) answered no, which is a lie, which further enforces my personal opinion that all politicians are liars and crooks. Who wants to buy a new car with health care reform looming, a gauranteed raise in our taxes is coming. The "I promise no one who makes less than 250,000 a year will be taxed" statement has already been proved a lie. Federal Tax on smokes went up 156%!! I guess only people who make more than 250,000 a year smoke??
Cash for clunkers is robbery, and I predict a wave of repos just like the wave of foreclosures. Actually, starting a repo business RIGHT NOW would probably be a great idea. Hmm...

[Badger]

starting a repo business RIGHT NOW

I agree. Yer a fwd thinkin kinda guy!

[in2deep]

Getting cash for a cluncker is one thing but selling an old car never makes sense when you then buy a new car.

Old car is worth $3500

New car is $20,000

That means it costs you $16,500 for the new car, which you have to pay for.

For $3500 you could have gotten your clunker repaired, very well, and saved $13,000.

Of that $13,000 you will spend it and lose $6000 the first year in depreciation. Another $2000 each successive year until it is worth about a $1000 in 9 or 10 years. After three years $10000 is gone. Also you will have to pay higher car insurance each year as your car now is worth more than the clunker, this will offset any MPG improvement and gas money savings for atleast 6 years. The warranty will be costing you that $10,000 plus any additional costs thus that idea is bad.

It makes much better sense to keep your money, fix up your clunker and drive it, insure it for much less and save your money!

You are still in a recession, you're going to need that money.

Everything you said makes 1000% sense. It really makes no sense for the average person to buy (or be allowed) to purchase a new car every 2 years, or when their mood changes.

[LIGHTNIN1]

I agree totally with everything AJ and CBT said about this. Its hard to not get political about this since that is all this is about. It is a part,SCAM, of the auto bailout.There is no way I would buy a new GM or Chrysler vehicle from these politicians. That would say I approve of how we have been SCAMMED.:mad2:

[SC Cheesehead]

I agree totally with everything AJ and CBT said about this. Its hard to not get political about this since that is all this is about. It is a part,SCAM, of the auto bailout.There is no way I would buy a new GM or Chrysler vehicle from these politicians. That would say I approve of how we have been SCAMMED.:mad2:

Another

Stupid
Congressional
Attempt at
Managing

[O's Fan Rich]

"Cash for Clunkers" is part of the slippery slope that this country is and has been sliding down into Government control of every aspect of your life and the removal of freedom for hardworking people.

[UncleLar]

We should really get a "We The People" movement going! How do we organize it,I'm all in!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYscnFpEyA

[SC Cheesehead]

We should really get a "We The People" movement going! How do we organize it,I'm all in!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYscnFpEyA

Hey Lar, how 'bout we start with this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyoKelylM1Y

[Haggis]

We should really get a "We The People" movement going! How do we organize it,I'm all in!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYscnFpEyA

Click the pic for 'Campaign for Liberty' in my sig.

[KillJoy]

"Cash for Clunkers" is part of the slippery slope that this country is and has been sliding down into Government control of every aspect of your life and the removal of freedom for hardworking people.


But, you say "Socalism" like it is a bad thing...

:eek:

KillJoy

[Hacklemerc]

"Cash for Clunkers" is part of the slippery slope that this country is and has been sliding down into Government control of every aspect of your life and the removal of freedom for hardworking people.

I agree with you. This Country is going to hell in a hand basket.

[Joe Walsh]

Here in the Communistwealth of Virginia, they tax your vehicle (and everything else come to think of it) based on the bluebook value EVERY year you own it. So on top of losing money by buying a new car, your twice yearly tax on it will also go up.
And since Barry Soetoro came up, part of his oath of office to the Illinois senate included the question "have you ever been known by any other name?" Barrack (who used to be Barry) answered no, which is a lie,
which further enforces my personal opinion that all politicians are liars and crooks. Who wants to buy a new car with health care reform looming, a gauranteed raise in our taxes is coming. The "I promise no one who makes less than 250,000 a year will be taxed" statement has already been proved a lie. Federal Tax on smokes went up 156%!! I guess only people who make more than 250,000 a year smoke??
Cash for clunkers is robbery, and I predict a wave of repos just like the wave of foreclosures. Actually, starting a repo business RIGHT NOW would probably be a great idea. Hmm...

That's not your personal opinion...that is the truth!

[Paul T. Casey]

So who's coming up with the cash in the "Cash for Clunkers" program? Oh yeah, that's right, me, and every other taxpayer in the country. I figure if your AGI is around $18K, you bought yourself a clunker. But that doesn't count all the other crap they make you buy.

[CBT]

That's not your personal opinion...that is the truth!

I was reading in the news that one (gigantic) group of people is particularly happy about the current health care bill they are trying to pass. Illegals. There is no wording in the "Obama health care for all" bill that would exclude them, and they want to keep it that way, and they are lobbying hard for it. So, **** no, I'm not going to buy a new car when I know good and God damn well my taxes will go up when 20 million extra folks (on top of everyone else) are about to duck under the health care umbrella with me. Sorry folks, I'm just amped up on coffee and Lucky Strikes today.

[CBT]

So who's coming up with the cash in the "Cash for Clunkers" program? Oh yeah, that's right, me, and every other taxpayer in the country. I figure if your AGI is around $18K, you bought yourself a clunker. But that doesn't count all the other crap they make you buy.

BINGO. extra letters.

[SC Cheesehead]

I thought we discussed this before, but I didn't find anything in the search. Let's not get political and stick to the subject of the concept....

Your thoughts?

Sorry Dom, but really, what did you expect? :rolleyes:

Oh, and BTW, Cash for Clunkers = another gov't "stimulus" initiative FUBAR.

IBTL

[Phrog_gunner]

Sorry Dom, but really, what did you expect? :rolleyes:

Oh, and BTW, Cash for Clunkers = another gov't "stimulus" initiative FUBAR.

IBTL

I think by stimulus you mean redistribution of wealth??

[SC Cheesehead]

I think by stimulus you mean redistribution of wealth??

Uhhh, you got it pegged, my friend. http://www.vpsingles.com/pics/moon.gif

[DOOM]

IWhy are we stimulating nissan's economy in Japan???

We are just too dumb to buy American!

EXACTLY!!!
I tell people all the time to buy american.

[CBT]

EXACTLY!!!
I tell people all the time to buy american.

Me and Amy went to the exchange on Norfolk Naval Base this weekend. They were having a sale and we were bored so we went. 99% of everything we looked was stamped Made In China. I was shocked, pissed, appalled, irate, you name it. China, a Communist country, dominating the goods being sold on the largest Naval Base in the U.S., makes me sick. I wanted 3 things: A particular shirt, which I did buy, was made in Honduras. A waffle maker, which I didn't buy, because every model there was made in China. A soft bristled brush for cleaning the Marauder seats, no dice, every frickin brush of every frickin size was made in China. I drove the Marauder because I expected to buy enough stuff to fill the trunk. I didn't buy enough to fill the center console. Stimulate the economy? How is that possible when nothing is made here? :censor:GRRRRR:mad2:

[O's Fan Rich]

But, you say "Socalism" like it is a bad thing...

:eek:

KillJoy

Socialism? That'd be NICE...... compared to where we seem to be heading....

[Phrog_gunner]

Me and Amy went to the exchange on Norfolk Naval Base this weekend. They were having a sale and we were bored so we went. 99% of everything we looked was stamped Made In China. I was shocked, pissed, appalled, irate, you name it. China, a Communist country, dominating the goods being sold on the largest Naval Base in the U.S., makes me sick. I wanted 3 things: A particular shirt, which I did buy, was made in Honduras. A waffle maker, which I didn't buy, because every model there was made in China. A soft bristled brush for cleaning the Marauder seats, no dice, every frickin brush of every frickin size was made in China. I drove the Marauder because I expected to buy enough stuff to fill the trunk. I didn't buy enough to fill the center console. Stimulate the economy? How is that possible when nothing is made here? :censor:GRRRRR:mad2:

Well that is one of the side effects of raising minimum wage etc....unskilled labor is unskilled labor...we force our unskilled labor to be paid higher wages...so companies HAVE to outsource overseas or go out of business because the next company will outsource labor and have a much cheaper product.

[Phrog_gunner]

My computer is being ghey...

[CBT]

Well that is one of the side effects of raising minimum wage etc....unskilled labor is unskilled labor...we force our unskilled labor to be paid higher wages...so companies HAVE to outsource overseas or go out of business because the next company will outsource labor and have a much cheaper product.

I feel ashamed that it is difficult to find an American flag that is actually made in America, I feel like I didn't do my part for this great country the whole damn 20 years I was serving it.

[SC Cheesehead]

Well that is one of the side effects of raising minimum wage etc....unskilled labor is unskilled labor...we force our unskilled labor to be paid higher wages...so companies HAVE to outsource overseas or go out of business because the next company will outsource labor and have a much cheaper product.

Wages are one piece of the puzzle, but of even greater significance is the onerous tax structure the US has, which creates a highly competitive imbalance with more "corporate'-friendly" nations:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/23470.html

"Amid rising concerns about the state of the U.S. economy, new data compiled by economists at the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) shows that for the 17th consecutive year the average rate of corporate taxes in non-U.S. countries fell while the U.S. corporate tax rate stayed the same. As a result, the overall U.S. corporate tax rate is now 50 percent higher than the OECD average.
Combined with another new OECD study that calls the corporate income tax the most harmful type of tax for economic growth, the implications for U.S. policy are clear. The long-term prospects of the U.S. economy are at risk as long as our corporate tax rate remains out of step with the rest of the world.
The U.S. continues to have the second-highest combined federal-state corporate tax rate among industrialized countries at 39.3 percent. Only Japan has a higher overall corporate tax rate at 39.5 percent. By contrast, the average corporate tax rate among OECD countries has fallen a full percentage point in the past year, from 27.6 percent to 26.6 percent. Ireland's 12.5 percent corporate tax rate remains the lowest among OECD nations."

So how the heck are we to compete globally when our own government continues to stack the deck against us? :dunno:

[LIGHTNIN1]

I feel ashamed that it is difficult to find an American flag that is actually made in America, I feel like I didn't do my part for this great country the whole damn 20 years I was serving it.


Very sorry you feel that way but none of this is your fault . You and others gave 300% risking everything and are heroes. People like you are what has made this country great. The politicians are the main thing wrong with the country and some are just low life traitors. Don't get me started.:mad2:

[Motorhead350]

Alright now we are off topic. It was nice in the begining.

[guspech750]

its time for another revolution. now thats change.

[SC Cheesehead]

Alright now we are off topic. It was nice in the begining.

Well, what did you expect? You asked opinions on a dumb-azz government program, you got 'em. ;)

[CBT]

Alright now we are off topic. It was nice in the begining.

It is still on topic, you said discuss it, we told our reasons for and against it. Did you just want a Yes or No reply? If so, my bad.

[Phrog_gunner]

It is still on topic, you said discuss it, we told our reasons for and against it. Did you just want a Yes or No reply? If so, my bad.

I actually kind of like it when CBT says NO.....

[Motorhead350]

I guess I didn't completely know what I was asking for. :o

I did learn a lot though. Keep it going!

[CBT]

I actually kind of like it when CBT says NO.....

Really? Cause you look pissed when I say that and smack you across the nose with a rolled up newspaper.:D

[cassidy]

It is hard not to get political with barry soetoro but the bottom line with cash for clunkers is that it should have been ONLY good for vouchers from vehicles from FORD, GENERAL MOTORS, or CHRYSLER. Why are we stimulating nissan's economy in Japan???

We are just too dumb to buy American!


I am sorry but if it was made in America by a Japanese company, the profits go to Japan and the United Auto Workers were probably not involved. See the movie "Gung Ho" about Assan Motors.


:flag::flag::flag::flag::flag: :flag::flag:

[Breadfan]

I'm a bit late to this, but I did read up a bit on the "Cash for Clunkers" program, that offers $3500 to $4500 of gov't subsidized pork for turning in a "gas guzzler" in exchange for a more fuel efficient car. Aside from the expected restrictions and oddities, this stood out:

"Q: What happens to my old vehicle?

A: The trade-in vehicle will be scrapped. Dealers are required to use a government-approved salvage facility for the vehicle disposal. Vehicles need to be shredded or crushed within six months."


So as has already been said in this thread, bye-bye to many future classics, and parts for future classics. They won't even let these cars sit in a salvage yard for parts - they're going to the big tin-can factory in the sky.

The point being, there is no option for what happens to the trade in car. It may run fine, be rust free, and a great car, but it's destined for the shredder. It can't even be dismantled for parts recycling as many good salvage yards would do.

Nope - shred it.

As a car guy, I'm offended. Not so much by the beat up rusty Camry's going here, but I forsee many good cars, future classics, and future parts cars going "bye bye".

I could turn my 5.0 into a $4500 trade in...and buy a Prius. See ya'll later, and wave to my pony as it goes in the shredder!!!!!!


But the thing that makes me laugh, is how people think this is being done because the Statists love us, or are looking out for the "people." This is a farce, and Cash for Clunkers is just another CLEAR indication of the shallow transparencies that somehow people cannot see past.

AJ already brought up the financial aspect of it - you really aren't saving much with this subsidy.

And - like other Gov't subsidies, the subsidizing must be paid for - i.e. your taxes. No free lunch.

But the thing that irks me again is this "must shred" deal. I wonder how many cars in good running order are going to be crushed or shredded. If the gov't was looking out for the people so much, and wanted to "spread the wealth" then how come they aren't taking these older cars that were turned in and reselling them for virtually nothing to a needy family?

Shouldn't they spread the wealth and give these cars to a family who needs it to get to work to pay their bills?

I'm not saying such a thing would be a good option either, but the fact that these trade-ins are being crushed rather than used for other beneficial factors shows this "change" has nothing to do with helping people out.

Finally, this program is yet another example of government intervention and socialism - the whole idea is to force us to buy cars they want us to buy - not what the consumer necessarily wants. The only way to "cash in" is to buy a more fuel efficient car - therefore they are already limiting our free market choices.

Wonder if there is a "czar" for this yet. Never thought I'd hear that term used to define a US Government position...

[Leadfoot281]

This program will end once the funding runs out. How much?

By Obama standards, very little.


Just a measly $1,000,000,000.00 :rolleyes:

[stoney43]

Good morning. Leave it to me to make my first post at 2:30 in the morning.

cash for clunkers 3500-4500 dollars for my old cars, hmmm...

let's see

99 F150 4X4 XLT super cab 5.4 130k miles, runs great, 21mpg with a good tail wind

90 mustang LX coupe 5.0 SSP 297k miles (original motor), on third paint job, needs a new one and a rebuild on the t5od, still runs good and fast, 26mpg @ 80mph

2004 MM TDR 63k miles, driven like an old lady on acid, still a great car, 28mpg @ 80mph

If I put $3k of work into each of these vehicles they would all be like new or better and get decent gas mileage.

Cash for clunkers is just another way for our distinguished representatives in DC to keep us strapped for cash and in debt, under their control, for the rest of our lives.

[Motorhead350]

I wonder if all vehicles will be crushed after all. If they all go to the government for crushing I bet more than one person is going to say "Hey look at this. We can use it!"

Yeah.

[Breadfan]

Don't forget the crushing is to be done by salvage yards "approved" by the gov't - wonder what it takes to get this approval?

[Pat]

If I understand the concept the clunkers are supposed to be recycled (destroyed as a vehicle) because they are polluting the atmosphere more than the new models with a higher gas mileage standard.

It would make no sense to just trade-in these older vehicles then see them back on the road somewhere else. By drying up the source of parts for older vehicles the transformation from old to new standards will be completed. It's a mandated Federal program to speed up cleaning the atmosphere because of the effects of global warming and it's impending doom for all of us.

This of course will take time, look at all the used car lots. I would imagine a future step will be making certain used car sales illegal and a cars for cash buy back program would be enacted. Ah yes, another government bail out.

So, buy holding on to your twenty year old Marauder you could let the government buy it back, hopefully for more cash than a trade in.

Or, you could keep it an drive it forever.

FYI: the latest government figures for gas mileage for a 2004
marauder is 15 MPG City, 21 MPG Hwy, 17 MPG AVG.

Previous figures were 17, 23 and 19 respectively. WWW.fueleconomy.gov

Don't flame me, it's just the way I understand the concept to work.

[Paul T. Casey]

but the bottom line with cash for clunkers is that it should have been ONLY good for vouchers from vehicles from FORD, GENERAL MOTORS, or CHRYSLER.

.


:flag::flag::flag::flag::flag: :flag::flag:

I must respectfully disagree. GM and Chrysler (who incidentally hasn't been American owned for quite some time now) have already got enough of my money thank you. To me anyway, the $3500 to $4500 could be better spent on things like pay for servicemen, traffic flow improvements (which would actually do more for lowering pollution), or even a fund to un-elect most of out representatives.

[jonroe]

I'm a bit late to this, but I did read up a bit on the "Cash for Clunkers" program, that offers $3500 to $4500 of gov't subsidized pork for turning in a "gas guzzler" in exchange for a more fuel efficient car. Aside from the expected restrictions and oddities, this stood out:

"Q: What happens to my old vehicle?

A: The trade-in vehicle will be scrapped. Dealers are required to use a government-approved salvage facility for the vehicle disposal. Vehicles need to be shredded or crushed within six months."


So as has already been said in this thread, bye-bye to many future classics, and parts for future classics. They won't even let these cars sit in a salvage yard for parts - they're going to the big tin-can factory in the sky.

The point being, there is no option for what happens to the trade in car. It may run fine, be rust free, and a great car, but it's destined for the shredder. It can't even be dismantled for parts recycling as many good salvage yards would do.

Nope - shred it.

As a car guy, I'm offended. Not so much by the beat up rusty Camry's going here, but I forsee many good cars, future classics, and future parts cars going "bye bye".

I could turn my 5.0 into a $4500 trade in...and buy a Prius. See ya'll later, and wave to my pony as it goes in the shredder!!!!!!


But the thing that makes me laugh, is how people think this is being done because the Statists love us, or are looking out for the "people." This is a farce, and Cash for Clunkers is just another CLEAR indication of the shallow transparencies that somehow people cannot see past.

AJ already brought up the financial aspect of it - you really aren't saving much with this subsidy.

And - like other Gov't subsidies, the subsidizing must be paid for - i.e. your taxes. No free lunch.

But the thing that irks me again is this "must shred" deal. I wonder how many cars in good running order are going to be crushed or shredded. If the gov't was looking out for the people so much, and wanted to "spread the wealth" then how come they aren't taking these older cars that were turned in and reselling them for virtually nothing to a needy family?

Shouldn't they spread the wealth and give these cars to a family who needs it to get to work to pay their bills?

I'm not saying such a thing would be a good option either, but the fact that these trade-ins are being crushed rather than used for other beneficial factors shows this "change" has nothing to do with helping people out.

Finally, this program is yet another example of government intervention and socialism - the whole idea is to force us to buy cars they want us to buy - not what the consumer necessarily wants. The only way to "cash in" is to buy a more fuel efficient car - therefore they are already limiting our free market choices.

Wonder if there is a "czar" for this yet. Never thought I'd hear that term used to define a US Government position...

Thank you! You said, in great detail, what I was feeling when I started the complaint about trashing the old cars. I am also completely offended by that notion. You take it farther (to an even better place) which is get these cars to people who need them. This is a complete transparent attempt to get you out of cars you like and into cars they want (and will force you) to get in.

[Bluerauder]

Aside from the economic drawback associated with enticing folks to buy cars that they can't afford, I also think that the overall program is ripe for fraud and corruption on both the front and the back ends. Even with "government oversight" the opportunity to seek FREE MONEY is there.

Consider the "Trade In". Dealers have grown accustomed to make $1,000 or $2,000 or even more on any trade in when they resell the vehicle. Their appraiser will tell you that the car is virtually worthless, that he is giving you "top dollar" for your trade, and that he'll be losing money if he goes any higher on your trade. Of course, on many of these vehicles they will be put back on the lot (or one nearby) with a sticker well above what they gave you. I find it unlikely that many dealers will give up that source of profit or revenue without a fight.

"Cash for Clunkers" will actually encourage some of our more upstanding dealers to value your clunker at the maximum $4,500. Then they will tell the customer that it is only worth $3,500 .... $2,500 or some other value. Paperwork will be prepared accordingly and they will pocket the difference. Think that this won't happen, can't happen .... just wait. Greedy crooks are rather ingenious.

On the back end, I suspect that many of the clunkers WILL NOT be crushed. They will be stripped of all useful and saleable parts and the hulk MAY be crushed. The 6 month lag time will assure that ample time is available to strip the car down to the basic body & frame. When it is crushed, paperwork will again be completed to certify that the rules have been met. Greed will also be a motivation in skirting the rules here.

Government oversight will NOT prevent this from happening. Never has ... Never will.

[Breadfan]

Good points Charlie!

Yet another reason things like this are simply inherently flawed.

[SC Cheesehead]

Good points Charlie!

Yet another reason things like this are simply inherently flawed.

Anything government = totally FUBAR

[CBT]

The government bailed out the auto industry (minus Ford) with our tax dollars. What a better way to get "thier" money back than come up with an idea designed to make you think you're actually MAKING money by SPENDING money. I think it's effing brilliant! I'm going to the nearest dealer as soon as I log off! Wow, I'm parched after all this tymping, poour rme a liitle muor koooool-aidd fleese.....

[Dr Caleb]

Sometimes, like these, I think about opening a chain of Torch and Pitchfork supply stores.

[CBT]

Sometimes, like these, I think about opening a chain of Torch and Pitchfork supply stores.

lol, go for it, you might actually make a good profit. i want one of those things the grim reaper carries, is it a scyth or a sickle?

[Phrog_gunner]

lol, go for it, you might actually make a good profit. i want one of those things the grim reaper carries, is it a scyth or a sickle?

Scyth......

[CBT]

Scyth......

Yeah, makes me think of one of my all time favorite movies, Slingblade.

[Phrog_gunner]

Yeah, makes me think of one of my all time favorite movies, Slingblade.

I dont think Ive seen that whole movie, if I did I dont remember it at all.

[Haggis]

Yeah, makes me think of one of my all time favorite movies, Slingblade.

Why did it have transvestites in it?

[SC Cheesehead]

Yeah, makes me think of one of my all time favorite movies, Slingblade.


Karl (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000671/): Some folks call it a sling blade, I call it a kaiser blade.

Doyle (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0948267/): What'cha doin' with that lawn mower blade Karl?
Karl (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000671/): I aim to kill you with it. Mmm.

[CBT]

Why did it have transvestites in it?

No silly, it wasn't a documentary about your ass.

[FordNut]

Anything government = totally FUBAR

The same folks that are going to fix healthcare.

[SC Cheesehead]

No silly, it wasn't a documentary about your ass.

Karl (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000671/): Not funny 'ha-ha', funny queer.

[Haggis]

No silly, it wasn't a documentary about your ass.

That would be 'Whale Wars'; Buttweld.

[Dr Caleb]

That would be 'Whale Wars'; Buttweld.

*cough*

http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/thelens/2009/thethirdsex/

[CBT]

*cough*

http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/thelens/2009/thethirdsex/

Whoa, check out that boxer dude/chick!

[Haggis]

*cough*

http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/thelens/2009/thethirdsex/

That would be Casey's life story.

[Dr Caleb]

Whoa, check out that boxer dude/chick!


That would be Casey's life story.

I think he's in love.

[CBT]

I think he's in love.

No way, but it just goes to show you never know who you are messing with. You could be all drunk at a bar hitting on....her and she takes you out in the alley and you wake up with no wallet, a broken jaw, and a sore ass. Or for Haggis, typical Friday night.:rolleyes:

[Haggis]

No way, but it just goes to show you never know who you are messing with. You could be all drunk at a bar hitting on....her and she takes you out in the alley and you wake up with no wallet, a broken jaw, and a sore ass. Or for Haggis, typical Friday night.:rolleyes:

Yea, why did you hit me? I didn't know that was you in drag, but I should have suspected something when you said your cameltoe was behind you.

[Phrog_gunner]

No way, but it just goes to show you never know who you are messing with. You could be all drunk at a bar hitting on....her and she takes you out in the alley and you wake up with no wallet, a broken jaw, and a sore ass. Or for Haggis, typical Friday night.:rolleyes:

I think you are just taking out your hatred on others because Marines got all the hot chicks and you were left with paying a tranny to satisfy you.....

[johnnyrauder]

not to mention just try to get $4500 for your car i tryed to qualify my 93 vic 193000k 14mpg and they told me i dont because they said the car gets 19mpg .... yea in 1993 they offerd me $750

[LIGHTNIN1]

The news this morning said this Clunker Program may be a clunker itself. The government only allotted so much money for it. At some magical moment money runs out.With so many dealers participating who knows when that moment ends. Some dealers are getting nervous if they will get paid for the clunkers they have already traded for. The clunker money is fronted by dealer to customer.

[SC Cheesehead]

Yup, C.Y.C.B.I.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870362830457445 3280766443704.html

[LIGHTNIN1]

That had to be the effect it would cause and then some. Look at the group of geniuses that thought it up. And it cut into sales and profits for used car dealers and repair shops.

[dakslim]

That had to be the effect it would cause and then some. Look at the group of geniuses that thought it up. And it cut into sales and profits for used car dealers and repair shops.

I read somewhere that they are going to have a cash for old appliances too sometime this month. Even if you don't get one you will be paying for them in part.:argue: