Kook's vs. Reinhart Exhaust

[Ross]

I have read both of the excellent reports from Logan and Sarge about the Kook's headers and Dennis' new exhaust system. I am about convinced that a new exhaust will be my next mod, and that I should be able to accomplish either one of these systems for around 2K. The reports look like each will give comparable results in terms of HP and torque. Dennis' system looks very much like OEM and might escape the scrutiny of someone trying to void the warranty at the dealer's shop, but since I only have about 1/3 of my warranty left (and that will be gone by next summer at the latest), warranty isn't my major concern. Other than that, what do y'all see as the major pros and cons of each system? Please, no flames toward either, just an honest discussion of the ups and downs either way. In systems such as these, I'm sure that there have to be some good and not so good points to each when they are compared side by side. Thanks.

[Constable]

Kooks pro: headers and x-pipe have proven 50hp at 6000rpm and 35lb-ft at 5200rpm. Peak numbers were respectable (29hp, 15lb-ft). This is all at the wheels... power actually getting to the ground.

Kooks con: The install will take FOREVER. Expect to pay $600-700 for the header install only. That doesn't include hooking them up to the rest of the exhaust system.

I don't know too much about Dennis' package yet. I have heard of the easy install, though. I'll let someone else tackle his parts.

[Ross]

That's the kind of start I was hoping for!

[martyo]

Hey Ross: I have Dennis exhaust "package" and although I do not have dyno numbers yet, I do have timeslips to back up the value of the system. Dennis is now offering a p&P'd exhaust manifold that looks super stock-like and Mac got fantastic results from that as well. A nice combo might be the p&p'd manifold backed up by the balance of Dennis's exhaust "package."

On another note I like the sound I am getting out of my car better than the Kook's equipped cars. BUT, as you know, this is a very subjective issue.

[Ross]

It was Sarge's report that made me stop and consider Dennis' package to begin with. I was very impressed with Logan's Kook's setup at Ennis, and especially his dyno numbers. I was ready to roll with Kook's. But then with the introduction of Dennis' kit, I had another good option to consider, and knowing Dennis' quality stuff, I wanted to make sure I had as much input as possible before I made a choice between two obviously good systems.

[BillyGman]

that I haven't purchased either one yet, however I plan to very shortly. So the following is merely my opinion. I'd never claim to be an expert in these matters, but I've been around hi-perf car stuff for a long time. The guys like Dennis Reinhart, as well as the owners of Kook's Headers are the experts.
I think that any time you install a full length header(or "mid-length") then it will give you more power than an exhaust manifold or what "shorty" or "block hugger" headers will give, since the long tube headers are less restrictive. That isn't the only factor to a performing exhaust, however it's one of them. But yes, there are pros and cons to both sides. The con is that the long tube or traditional headers like KOOK's headers will require more labor to install than shorty headers or exhaust manifolds will. Personaly, I think they're worth the extra trouble on most V8 cars, but again, that's my opinion. So I'm merely offering you what you have asked for(my opinion). That's not to bash Dennis's exhaust set up, but it's just a matter of preference for the individual buyer, and what's a priority for you(convenience, or power). But note that if you were to open up the exhaust too much on any given car, by going too large w/the header primary tube diameter, or w/the exhaust pipe diameter, then it would sacrifice low RPM power even though it would increase hi-RPM power. However I don't believe that's the case w/the Kook's system because I've asked a Marauder owner who has the Kook's system on his Marauder, and he flat out told me that it has also increased his off the line acceleration also. I hope this helps you.

[MERCMAN]

A quick note on warranty. At the roundup in Columbus, I brought up the question of modifying the exhaust. The L/M service manager answered my question about exhaust mods voiding warranties. His answer was that the only warranty that would be voided would be the one on the exhaust system. PERIOD!!!
They can't void it on anything else. So unless you have a great fear of voiding the exhaust warranty,, GO FOR IT.
BTW, I have seen and heard Mac's car with the DR exhaust. VERY impressive. KB took a long hard look at it as well, I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't going to be part of the Marauder S package in the near future

[darebren]

I don't know if I could decide until I hear both systems side by side. sound first, power second, cost third in my priority list for exhaust.

[Marauder57]

I have the Reinhart manifolds in my MM and exhaust....might have been the first....but Dennis and Co. put them in.....first off look great!....the biggie for me was I wanted the performance....but I did not want the earth to rumble when I came down the street.

I feel like I got he performance I wanted....with an increase in throaty sound.....but the sound is more "Hey he has probably done some mods....wonder what" as opposed to.."Damn that thing is a monster.."

I have not heard or driven a "Kookie" car....I take Logans word as law and if he supports them...good for me....

I have done all my mods with Dennis.....and am more than 110% satisfied...and confident in workmanship....

No matter who you choose....they will make a big difference....in the "pants" and "street"....

I will say though the only draw back with Dennis is the little bugger keeps coming up with new stuff for the MM...and I can't stop from buying it.....Was that a draw back???? :confused:

[sailsmen]

How do the manifodls and exhaust look different than stock, polished or painted?

Did you replace the upper/lower intake manifold and exhast manifolds with ones that were ported and polished?

[Ross]

How long was the install time for the dennis setup? Have you done any dyno pulls?

[Marauder57]

Figures you guys would have to ask questions now.....Danggit!

First I want to apologize to Dennis in case my mechanical ineptness show through.....

The manifolds to not have all the fancy looking "Tubes" like the kooks headers...they look more OEM. But they are ceramic coated in silver like.....look cool looking down onto the engine....The exhaust picks up from the manifolds and then ends at the stock pipes.....all bolt on...no welds...and could be returned back to stock if you ever wanted to.....

Has a nice deeper sound....but not that glass vibrating stuff on some others....you can hear the throatyness inside the cabin.

The seat of the pants is really good.....and this will sound kind of crazy....but it is not the full on explosion I felt from the chip and 4.10's......rather it feels like the whole car is "moving" forward together....rather that the torque from the gears it self....it will still neck snap...don't get me wrong....

The biggest fell upgrade is that the car when doing 80+ feels like it is just sucking through the air....it wants to go faster and just go......80 to 100 is very smooth....and solidly aggressive.

As for install took about 4 hours I guess. And that should be about average.......I think.....Again if you have real specific questions call Dennis.....Whopps almost forgot...no dyno pulls yet...will probably do my first later this month when Dennis gets his in.....

Hope this was not too egnirent..... :D

[Ross]

not too egnerent for me!

[Marauder57]

Originally posted by Ross
not too egnerent for me!

Oh that is how you spell it..... :D

[Ross]

i have the redneck spell check on my cornputer

[Marauder57]

Damn man you have all the latest ticknologie.....Lucky dawg!

[Constable]

I plan on modding my car endlessly. You should decide now what the extent of your mods will be and where you want to stop, then buy your parts based upon that. You don't want to be buying another exhaust system in a few years.

[Ross]

Good advice, Constable. Due to budgetary constraints, I think whichever system I put on will last me a long time. If I am ever able to go SC, that won't be until years in the future, so I am planning on this system being with me awhile.

[the fat bastid]

2 questions:

i thought the kooks where mid-length and not full length headers? but i see them refered to either way.

anyone have any info on shm's headers?
i was looking at them because they where full length.

[Ross]

Bastid, this could be waaayyy wrong, but here is my understanding of the difference between whether Kook's is mid or full length. The headers themselves are as long as full length, but the collector is shorter, thereby making them mid length. OK, everyone, how far off am I? I, too, looked at SHM headers, but for a comparable result I think they are noticeably more expensive. Anyone have any dyno tests or ET's with SHM headers to compare to?

[Logan]

No, the headers are actually shorter, the tubes are a full length tube into a truncated collector. SHM make a full-length header but it's a bit more expensive.

Exhaust is a decision that folks have to make with their long term goals in mind. My long-term goals are a combination of style/functionality and jaw dropping "oooo's and aaaaaaahhhh's"...

To that end the Kook's system fits my attitude and my performance goals better than a shortie or P&P manifold type setup.

That being said, I think it can be summed up like this.

If you want balls to the wall performance, go full custom exhaust with Kook's.

If you want factory looking, kick butt performance and want an easier install go with the Reinhart ported and coated exhaust manifolds.

Either way you go, go that way because it's what you wanna do. My biggest problem is having too much selection to choose from!!! If you can call that a problem!!

[TAF]

I thought long and hard, which one I was going to do. Spoke with Nick at Kooks for a long time one day (VERY nice guy, BTW) and had a long talk with Dennis. I decided on the SVO shorties from Dennis. Chose those over the p&p manifolds (mostly for the asthetics IMHO). Update to come...

[Constable]

My biggest problem is having too much selection to choose from!!! If you can call that a problem!!

Funny, it seems like just a few months ago that's exactly what the problem was: Selection. There wasn't any!

[Ross]

That's my problem, too. If there was only one of everything available, we wouldn't have so many decisions to make. Of course, it wouldn't be nearly as interesting or as much fun!:burnout: