Gubmit suspends Cash for clunkers

[wchain]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-07-30-cash-for-clunkers-program-suspended_N.htm



The government is suspending the explosively popular 'cash for clunkers' program fearing it would go broke before it could parcel out what it still owes dealers for a huge backlog of sales.
The pending suspension was confirmed by Bailey Wood, legislative director for the National Automobile Dealers Association (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/Organizations/Non-profits,+Activist+Groups/National+Automobile+Dealers+As sociation) (NADA), which had been called Thursday night by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which administers the program. Rep. Candice Miller, R-Mich., confirmed as well, saying she had been told by congressional leaders.
"Obviously the program has been an immense success in stimulating automotive sales," Wood said.
"The thing has exploded. It has exceeded everyone's expectations," said Miller, who was involved in writing the original legislation, known as CARS, for Car Allowance Rebate System. "Throughout our history, it has been auto sales that have pulled us out of recession. People are more likely to buy cars than houses. Not to be too Pollyannaish, but we're gettin' our mojo back. This could be the pivot" that begins an economic recovery.

FIASCO: Suspension of 'cash for clunkers' program couldn't come at a worse time (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2009/07/68495819/1)
As of late Thursday, the government had committed nearly all of the program's $1 billion, according to calculations by NADA and various congressional offices. It's unclear whether and how the CARS program could be restarted.
FIND MORE STORIES IN: New York (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/Places,+Geography/States,+Territories,+Provinces ,+Islands/New+York) | General Motors (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/Organizations/Companies/Manufacturing,+Construction/General+Motors) | National Automobile Dealers Association (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/Organizations/Non-profits,+Activist+Groups/National+Automobile+Dealers+As sociation)
"We're in a full-court press trying to get more cash for 'cash-for-clunkers'," Miller told USA TODAY Thursday night — pointing out she wanted $4 billion for the program, not the $1 billion that was appropriated.
Rep. Betty Sutton, D-Ohio, also a co-sponsor of CARS who wanted $4 billion, got the news from DOT Secretary Ray LaHood Thursday night, according to Sutton's chief of staff Nichole Francis Reynolds. Reynolds said, "The program's spent $150 million and has another $800 million to $850 million in (pending) obligations… This is one of those programs you can really see working." She says CARS has "overwhelming support" and Sutton was pressing to free more money to continue the program.
DOT could not be reached for comment Thursday night.
Wood said dealers were amazed at how many shoppers visited their showrooms this week. The program has been in effect since July 1, but the details were finalized only a week ago.
The $1 billion was to provide rebates of $3,500 or $4,500 for people who traded in older cars rated 18 miles per gallon or less for new ones rated 22 mpg or more. The old cars are scrapped.
Dealers loved the extra sales, but some were already getting cold feet about the deals because of the difficulty in processing them.
One dealer was going to suspend anyway. Another says he's having to haul clunkers back to his lot that he already shipped to the junkyard just to disable them. Others say deals are being held up by red tape.
But rules governing the program totaled 135 pages. They required dealers to register and many started off the week just trying to get answers on a government-jammed website. The rules are "very confusing," says Pete Greiner, who has a Ford dealership that bears his name in Casper, Wyo. "The administration of the program is extremely tough."
Some dealers said demand has been so brisk, they feared the program could go broke in days or weeks.
One Honda and General Motors dealer in Fort Worth says he has 50 clunker deals that were being held up by paperwork. "We're going back to our second and third round with customers to have things signed," said Will Churchill, owner of Frank Kent Motor. "They keep coming up with new forms to sign," Churchill said.
Now the dealership is in a Catch-22 situation: he must destroy the engines of clunker trade-ins to be eligible for the program. But if the paperwork falls through, he could be stuck with junked, rather than still running, cars.
As a result, Churchill says he is thinking of holding up more clunker deals.
In the Queens borough of New York (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/Places,+Geography/States,+Territories,+Provinces ,+Islands/New+York), Paragon Honda has its own problem. It already hauled away nearly 60 clunkers to a junkyard before it found the rules require them to be disabled on the auto lot. Now they have to be brought back, have their engines destroyed and hauled back.
"Killing cars is not something that I'm used to doing," says Brian Benstock, the dealership's general manager.
Sharon Silke Carty contriobuted to the report.

[Ken]

And how many of these now disabled cars, could have been sold as good used cars for the people that can't afford a new car. Ex. my daughter needs a decent car, not too expensive, for transportation to school. That segment of the market just got leaner!

Off my :soap: box.

Ken

[CBT]

And how many of these now disabled cars, could have been sold as good used cars for the people that can't afford a new car. Ex. my daughter needs a decent car, not too expensive, for transportation to school. That segment of the market just got leaner!

Off my :soap: box.

Ken

A good Dad would loan her his Marauder. (Glad I'm not one!)

[Ken]

A good Dad would loan her his Marauder. (Glad I'm not one!)That good Dad let her drive it just once, earlier this year, the night before her 18th birthday. We were out at a banquet and Dad was throwing back shots, felt OK to drive, but decided to make a lesson of it. Long story short, threw her the keys, (she was shocked!) and told her to keep her foot out of it. She damn near did a burnout in the driveway! Needless to say, the next month, when I saw Lidio for the torque converter install, I had him add a valet tune, just for these occassions!

Ken

[RoyLPita]

From what I see here, some of the people who took advantage of the deal have turned in vehicles of both extremes. Some that need to the salvage yards and creampuffs that could be spared for a second chance at life on the road.

[Paul T. Casey]

Stop the Madness!!! We plowed through a billion in what? A week or so? And for what? So people who can't afford new cars can default on their new loans? Or maybe we haven't borrowed enough from the Chi-coms yet? How we going to pay them back? Trade missile defense technology (to an enemy) for payments on a note? This all puzzles me. :confused:

[LIGHTNIN1]

Stop the Madness!!! We plowed through a billion in what? A week or so? And for what? So people who can't afford new cars can default on their new loans? Or maybe we haven't borrowed enough from the Chi-coms yet? How we going to pay them back? Trade missile defense technology (to an enemy) for payments on a note? This all puzzles me. :confused:
Good thoughts. The government could not run a 1 billion dollar program and they are wanting to run a multi TRILLION dollar healthcare program.

[Black Dynamite]

I'm glad it's over. Not for any particular political reason, but only because it's a real friggin mess to deal with if you work at a dealership....

[Glenn]

Did you see the good condition of a lot of these cars. I mean GOOD condition and even late model cars - not very old looking to me. Crazy program - we are destroying many good cars that could have been used by lower income people or students, etc. PC gone crazy.

I just wonder what kind of deal these people were really getting. I bet none of them got ANY additional kind of discounts on their cars from the salesmen. So, if they would sell their cars or even trade them in and then get some of the great discounts they would have been better off without the program. Anyone know this for certain?

Glenn :burnout:

[RR|Suki]

Did you see the good condition of a lot of these cars. I mean GOOD condition and even late model cars - not very old looking to me. Crazy program - we are destroying many good cars that could have been used by lower income people or students, etc. PC gone crazy.

I just wonder what kind of deal these people were really getting. I bet none of them got ANY additional kind of discounts on their cars from the salesmen. So, if they would sell their cars or even trade them in and then get some of the great discounts they would have been better off without the program. Anyone know this for certain?

Glenn :burnout:

well seeing as I know guys who got brand new cars for 6K after incentives and the cash for clunkers thing for turning in old pos guzzlers worth less than $500. People were comin out pretty well :beer:

[rayjay]

good thoughts. The government could not run a 1 billion dollar program and they are wanting to run a multi trillion dollar healthcare program.

+1, exactly!!!!!!!!!!

[Bluerauder]

I'm glad it's over. Not for any particular political reason, but only because it's a real friggin mess to deal with if you work at a dealership....
Not sure that it is over yet. Congress was voting today on extending the program and adding another $3.5 Billion. That'll add another 10 days or so to this ill-conceived and ill-executed program. So far the Dems are about 55 to 1 for it. Reps are just under even against it. Damn the Torpedoes --- Full Speed Ahead.

Look for bigger increases in gas taxes, alcohol taxes, cigarette taxes, and income taxes coming to your house soon. And, lets not forget those "Fees" 'cause they ain't really taxes are they. :P

[Glenn]

BUT, NO - we were constantly told - NO Tax increases if you make under $250,000. Of course the state run media did not brother to ask if he meant any kind of taxes or just Federal taxes. You all got the change you were asking for -------------!!!!!!!! :eek:

Glenn :argue:

[FastMerc]

That does not supprise me,It was a stupid plan......

[LIGHTNIN1]

Now these nutjobs are wanting to throw billions more into this plan to save us from ourselves. This is all I need ,Uncle Sam coming to help me out.:help:

[FordNut]

Supposed to prop up the American Automobile Industry, but around here the Toyota and Honda dealerships have made at least 10x the deals of American dealerships. Bunch of crap, spending our tax money to prop up the Japanese auto industry.

[glassman99]

Wait until the dumb sob's take over healthcare! Brian...ar10

[glassman99]

Stop the Madness!!! We plowed through a billion in what? A week or so? And for what? So people who can't afford new cars can default on their new loans? Or maybe we haven't borrowed enough from the Chi-coms yet? How we going to pay them back? Trade missile defense technology (to an enemy) for payments on a note? This all puzzles me. :confused:

Damn Paul..you hit it on the head. We are so deep in it now it won't be paid back in our lifetime. vote democrat

[Leadfoot281]

Did you see the good condition of a lot of these cars. I mean GOOD condition and even late model cars - not very old looking to me. Crazy program - we are destroying many good cars that could have been used by lower income people or students, etc. PC gone crazy.

I just wonder what kind of deal these people were really getting. I bet none of them got ANY additional kind of discounts on their cars from the salesmen. So, if they would sell their cars or even trade them in and then get some of the great discounts they would have been better off without the program. Anyone know this for certain?

Glenn :burnout:

Here a good one! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo This is how the Obama administration is spending YOUR money. Can you say 'Government waste'? Adiós $4,500 tax dollars!

I don't think anyone is getting really great deals. No one has done their homework on this. You've got millions of people running to the local Toyota dealerships after hearing what a great idea this was on the local news.

My friend went looking for base model F150's two months ago. There were several available for $22,500. Yesterday he went to the SAME dealership. Guess what, $22,000 AFTER clunker discount. (Sugar Loaf Ford- Lincoln-Mercury. Winona Minn.)

This might be an OK deal for the 52% of Americans that don't pay any income taxes. For the rest of us that actually do pay taxes, just look at the video again. YOU PAID FOR THAT.

Enjoy the video. Hope you got your moneys worth.

[Bradley G]

There will be so much rife from this, before it's over........
Global market now, nameplates don't matter as much, since the employment is here.
Twenty year Ford seller here :
You ain't seen nothin' yet! Buy Ford stock!:cool4:

[Bluerauder]

Here a good one! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo This is how the Obama administration is spending YOUR money. Can you say 'Government waste'? Adiós $4,500 tax dollars!
How sad and disturbing ... not a damn thing wrong with that Volvo. Stupid. :mad: And I am sure that is an EPA approved disposal method. :rolleyes:

Just wait until the new health care program kicks in and they start doing something similar to old people when they are judged to be clunkers. :(

[RedMerc04]

Just wait until the new health care program kicks in and they start doing something similar to old people when they are judged to be clunkers. :(
Yes! Isn't it great! People who are your age who have paid taxes their whole lives and probably even served in the military will be simply "discarded" because someone 20 years old who does not work, has a problem w/ drugs, and is sexually active with random partners needs the resources allocated to him for his needs. After all, the bureaucrat is going to base allocation of resources on potential future contributions to the system. Our society is going to become so "efficeint" that euthinization will become commonplace and done in the name of "compassion". Wait until illegal aliens get treatment instead of hardworking, taxpaying citizens. Abraham Lincoln was right when he said "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

[rayjay]

Uhmmm, Medicaid is a nightmare. What on earth makes anyone think the government can administer a much larger program? Sure, they will eventually force most of us into it. All the doctors will HAVE to accept it. BUT who is going to want to spend 8 years in school, plus countless hours as a intern and resident, when in the end you are making the same money as a cashier at Walmart??? Down the road the pool of doctors will shrink to point where there is a real problem in obtaining health care. It will take a number of years to have this effect, but IMHO, it will happen. I could go on and on about NYS running their own health care insurance company for it's employees, but thats for another day... :shake:

[Crown Vicman]

Doesnt affect me one bit I told you guys before their planning to kill off the dollar for their so called new world order plan. When they kill off the dollar we will be screwed.

[rayjay]

Doesnt affect me one bit I told you guys before their planning to kill off the dollar for their so called new world order plan. When they kill off the dollar we will be screwed.


We're screwed already, most people just don't realize it yet. They're banking on that... damn USComms. :mad2:

[Mike Poore]

Stop the Madness!!! We plowed through a billion in what? A week or so? And for what? So people who can't afford new cars can default on their new loans? :confused:

Exactly, Paul. The very same people who defaulted on those crazy home loans and nearly caused the world economy to collapse are gonna actually pay for these cars? They were driving older cars because they bought them cheaply and could afford them. (read couldn't afford new ones) Along with the car payment there's gonna be increased insurance rates and title fees and taxes. Who's gonna eat the paper when they park and walk away from the one they can't afford, now?:banghead:

[rayjay]

Exactly, Paul. The very same people who defaulted on those crazy home loans and nearly caused the world economy to collapse are gonna actually pay for these cars? They were driving older cars because they bought them cheaply and could afford them. (read couldn't afford new ones) Along with the car payment there's gonna be increased insurance rates and title fees and taxes. Who's gonna eat the paper when they park and walk away from the one they can't afford, now?:banghead:

Now just stop it! According to a local radio show host we are all crying because a CommSocialDemoRat program is actually working. :lol:

[Mike Poore]

Now just stop it! According to a local radio show host we are all crying because a CommSocialDemoRat program is actually working. :lol:

Is not! :neener:

[Leadfoot281]

This program is working?

That is wonderfull news! The environment has been saved! Those cute 'n cuddly polar bears won't drown due to the melting ice caps (caused by those evil Republicans with their awefull factories and jobs)! Awesome!

Y'know what this means? I can finally put my Jeep in 4wd-low and idle around town again! I can also run outside and burn that huge pile of tractor tires that have been accumulating behind the barn. Cool!

I think we can all fully expect gas prices to plummet since all these evil gas hogs have been destroyed. Maybe I'll even under-inflate my tires again. (The Jeep rides sooo much better with 5psi in the tires.)

Before I get started, this was designed to fix the environment, right? :confused:

Oh happy days! I can't wait for universal health care! I'll be able to eat whatever I want! Glazed donuts for breakfast! Maple syrup and Captain Crunch for dinner! Chaining Camel lights all day long! And excercise? Who needs it! Fedzilla will take care of me.

[Mike Poore]

This program is working?

Oh happy days! I can't wait for universal health care! I'll be able to eat whatever I want! Glazed donuts for breakfast! Maple syrup and Captain Crunch for dinner! Chaining Camel lights all day long! And excercise? Who needs it! Fedzilla will take care of me.


But, wait, there's more! They're (again) talking about a NATIONAL 55 speed limit! Just think about the savings in fuel, and lives; not to mention what it's gonna do for the polar bears. (who, BTW are becoming so overpopulated the folks in they're cozy villages worry about becoming snack food for the cute little critters) :eek:

[SC Cheesehead]

Interesting article on the Rueters site this morning:

http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2009/08/03/cash-for-clunkers-is-obamanomics-in-microcosm/

An analysis by Macroeconomic Advisers forecasts that the program will affect only the timing of car sales, not total sales: “In particular, we expect that roughly half of the 250,000 in new sales would have occurred in the months following the conclusion of the program, and the other half would have occurred during the program period anyway. Therefore, we do not expect a boost to industry-wide production (or GDP) in response to this program."...

It picks and promotes a particular industry in a sort of small-scale industrial policy. It also places an emphasis on consumer spending as a route to renewed prosperity over greater investment — and isn’t that how the American economy got in trouble in the first place?...

And for those reasons, cash for clunkers isn’t just a whimsically named government program that helps automakers clear out some inventory and generate a bit of quick cash flow, while also making average Americans feel they’re finally getting their bailout.


Change You Can Believe In :shake:

[MXSG]

Do you guys just repost FOX news talking points?

You're all free to :censor: all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the program was wildly successful and Congress has already approved more money to keep the program going. It will save money and resources in the long run and you would know that if you bothered to look at the larger economic picture.

This topic is filled with weary, fearful and aging Republicans who know their Party is on the edge of collapse. You can make all of the "polar bear" jokes you want, but the majority of the younger generation does not share your simple values. That's why we were able to mobilized the youth vote and get Obama into office (and we'll do it again next election). After eight years of Bush, the war in Iraq, the economic collapse and Sarah Palin, I would be embarrassed to be associated with the right.

And just to be clear, I am not a liberal. I'm a gun toting, Marauder owning independent. I don't agree with everything the Democrats are doing and Obama is not perfect. But if you people expect to even put up a fight next election you better come up with real solutions and stop making fools of yourselves with ignorant "witty" comments about the ice caps, and polar bears and :censor:.

Also, I can't wait to get health care!:D

[SC Cheesehead]

You're all free to :censor: all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the program was wildly successful and Congress has already approved more money to keep the program going. It will save money and resources in the long run and you would know that if you bothered to look at the larger economic picture.

Uhhh, yeah, I guess I must be mis-informed:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/05/our-view-on-vehicle-vouchers-put-the-brakes-on-cash-for-clunkers.html

http://www.radioiowa.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=E65A5428-5056-B82A-371E810741228F38

http://reason.org/blog/show/cash-for-clunkers-has-a-strang

http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2009/20090710140210.aspx

http://www.egmcartech.com/2009/07/15/36780/

:rolleyes:

BTW, "Congress" hasn't already approved more money to keep the program going. The House of Representitives has passed a bill to extend another $2 BILLION dollars to fund this program. The Senate hasn't, so it's not a done deal yet.


A wise man from California once observed:

"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."

and

"You don't tax and spend your way to prosperity."

Sorry if that doesn't make any sense to you, must be 'cause I'm an "old guy" that it's clear as a bell....:cool:

[CBT]

Also, I can't wait to get health care!:D
First off, good points. Second, after 20 years of free Government health care I can say it is okay when you are near a doctor and there is no line. Other than that, it is run like any other government org, it has it's highs and lows.

[MXSG]

BTW, "Congress" hasn't already approved more money to keep the program going. The House of Representitives has passed a bill to extend another $2 BILLION dollars to fund this program. The Senate hasn't, so it's not a done deal yet.

I stand corrected.

I maintain my position on all other points though. I think we found the problem though- you're getting your information from places like the Reason Foundation, a libertarian think tank! Besides, it's easy to find articles rebutting any position on just about any subject these days. It seems to me most of those articles were complaining because it didn't help so and so or was designed to only help the auto industry under the guise of protecting the environment. So what if it does both? Win and win as far as I'm concerned.

Of course it's not perfect, NOTHING from the government ever will be, but the private sector royally screwed up this past year and we're just going to have to deal with a bit more government on our backs for a while. Try and make the best of it, keep them on their toes, and ask questions, but don't blindly hate.

Oh, and they still teach Reagan in school. ;)

[rayjay]

I think I will celebrate by getting naked and dancing around a bonfire tonight. The global warming ALgore sent is great, coldest July in recorded history. Crops withering in the fields from too much rain. Global warming is so great our illustrious governor declared 13 counties around here agricultural disaster areas... Oh, did I forget to mention the poor polar bears, who are at record numbers? Maybe they are starving because they are running out of baby seals to eat because there are too many of them.

While the rest of world laughs its behind off at us we will be stuck with cap & trade, and I'll be freezing my behind off because the Demoratcommsocialists made the heating oil I need so exspensive I can't afford to heat my home this coming winter. Thank you so much Algore for the myth of global warming....

[SC Cheesehead]

I merely pulled up a couple of sources for reference, but there are a couple items that concern me about CfC that are just basic common sense:

1. It's NOT about the environment, especially if you're looking at a delta increase in mileage of less than 25%, "clunker" to new vehicle. How much energy is going to be required to destroy the clunkers being replaced by the new "eco-vehicles?" This whole deal makes about as much sense as burning ethanol, a fuel that takes more energy to produce than it yields.

2. Where are these billions of dollars coming from? Last I checked we weren't exactly flush with bucks, and the government has never been real big on spending cuts to other programs, so what does that leave? Increased taxes, which will eventually be levied across the board. regardless of what PrezBO says. Just what I need, higher taxes so some doofus can upgrade from a 18 mpg SUV to one that gets 22 mpg.

3. Even if Congress is stupid enough to increase the funding for this legislative abortion, $3 billion at $4,500 per vehicle = about 667K vehicles, this equates to about 6% of the average annual production volume of cars manufactured in the US. Kick in the volume of imports and that's going to drop to closer to 1% - 3%. So, where's the big environmental, or for that matter, the substantial economic impact? Yeah, I don't need to "[get my] information from places like the Reason Foundation, a libertarian think tank" to convince me that the whole "Cash for Clunkers" in just another typcial government SNAFU.

Like that wise old Californian said, "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

[SC Cheesehead]

I think I will celebrate by getting naked and dancing around a bonfire tonight. The global warming ALgore sent is great, coldest July in recorded history. Crops withering in the fields from too much rain. Global warming is so great our illustrious governor declared 13 counties around here agricultural disaster areas... Oh, did I forget to mention the poor polar bears, who are at record numbers? Maybe they are starving because they are running out of baby seals to eat because there are too many of them.

While the rest of world laughs its behind off at us we will be stuck with cap & trade, and I'll be freezing my behind off because the Demoratcommsocialists made the heating oil I need so exspensive I can't afford to heat my home this coming winter. Thank you so much Algore for the myth of global warming....

Now Ray, don't be talking like this, you'll just further alienate "the majority of the younger generation [who] does not share your simple values." :rolleyes:

But not to worry, as you and I know: Old age and treachery always overcome youth and skill. :D

[offroadkarter]

And just to be clear, I am not a liberal. I'm a gun toting, Marauder owning independent. I don't agree with everything the Democrats are doing and Obama is not perfect. But if you people expect to even put up a fight next election you better come up with real solutions and stop making fools of yourselves with ignorant "witty" comments about the ice caps, and polar bears and :censor:.

Also, I can't wait to get health care!:D

You know damn well this is the only reason obama was elected


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

Obama gun pay my mortgage and child support! Free watermelons for all!



OH yes, the young people vote? Well young voters are stupid and ignorant, and follow what everyone else is doing... "He's voting for the young cool black guy? Hell I guess I will to!"




http://regmedia.co.uk/2007/06/27/usb_panic_1.png

[MrBluGruv]

OH yes, the young people vote? Well young voters are stupid and ignorant, and follow what everyone else is doing... "He's voting for the young cool black guy? Hell I guess I will to!"

I honestly think it's less about fitting in for my generation and more about the promises of free money. Although the stupid and ignorant part still apply in spades, can't count how many fellow college students didn't think even 5 minutes into the future to consider that their "free money" now will be paid back later to a new generation of even lazier people out of their own pockets.

I can't think of much positive things that've happened in this man's presidency, but I can think of a myriad of foot-placed-in-mouth situations though. I don't understand how with as much flak as Bush used to get, people let the screw-ups of this president and administration go by a lot easier. Bush and his administration may have been unproductive at best, but at least they were predictable...

[rayjay]

I honestly think it's less about fitting in for my generation and more about the promises of free money. Although the stupid and ignorant part still apply in spades, can't count how many fellow college students didn't think even 5 minutes into the future to consider that their "free money" now will be paid back later to a new generation of even lazier people out of their own pockets.

I can't think of much positive things that've happened in this man's presidency, but I can think of a myriad of foot-placed-in-mouth situations though. I don't understand how with as much flak as Bush used to get, people let the screw-ups of this president and administration go by a lot easier. Bush and his administration may have been unproductive at best, but at least they were predictable...

Its called he is pushing and realizing their agenda for them. By the time people realize whats actually going on we will be living the People's Republik of Amerika, B. H. Obama, Chairman.

[CBT]

You know damn well this is the only reason obama was elected
Obama gun pay my mortgage and child support! Free watermelons for all!


Seriously? I'm all about some free speech, but if this comment gets your ass kicked I will probably just watch.

[SC Cheesehead]

Originally Posted by offroadkarter http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=791681#post79 1681)
You know damn well this is the only reason obama was elected
Obama gun pay my mortgage and child support! Free watermelons for all!


Seriously? I'm all about some free speech, but if this comment gets your ass kicked I will probably just watch.

You mean we gotta pay for the melons? :dunno:

[RedMerc04]

but the majority of the younger generation does not share your simple values. That's why we were able to mobilized the youth vote and get Obama into office (and we'll do it again next election). After eight years of Bush, the war in Iraq, the economic collapse and Sarah Palin, I would be embarrassed to be associated with the right.

It seems as if you, my friend, are reiterating MSNBC talking points. 95 percent of those who voted for Obama probably could not even name their Congressman or both of their senators for that matter. Its unfortunate that uninformend masses can have such influence. I understand that people hate George W. Bush and to be honest with you I absolutely hated when he injected money into Bear Stearns in March 2008 and I was furious with TARP. On other issues, I give him credit for having the balls to do what he thought correct despite public opinion. The problem today is that modern day republicans are not true conservatives (this includes Bush's handling of the economy). Yes, they may have strong conservative opinions on some key issues but they are only the ones that they feel will get them votes. What is needed is a figurehead who believes in the following things: A strict interpertation of the US constitution and that government must only opeate within its specified parameters (BTW where does the document specify a right to healthcare?), individual liberty, strong borders, no amnesty for illegal aliens, the miracle of TRUE free market economics, strong national defense, less regulation on businesses, increased VA benefits, incentives to allow those on social programs to make something of themselves rather than turn into paupers, and last but not least federalism and state sovereignty. Basically Ronald Reagan 2. As for your other point reguarding embarassment by association I would much rather be on the side of Sarah Palin (who was treated so unfairly by the media its not even funny) then that of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Chris Dodd, Charlie Rangel, Barney Frank and Ted Kennedy. Just to name a few.

[SC Cheesehead]

Spot on RedMerc! :2thumbs:

Wadda ya know, a young guy that gets it!! :smile:

[LIGHTNIN1]

I never make a decision without asking, "What would Pres. Obama Or Mr Barney Frank do in this situation?" I know I am not capable of making a decision myself. I need Uncle Sam to send me some free money. I am waiting by the mail box.:dunno:

[RedMerc04]

Spot on RedMerc! :2thumbs:

Wadda ya know, a young guy that gets it!! :smile:
Thanks, all I can say is that I know I am one of a very small percentage of those my age. Its really a shame that most of us youngsters have such a shallow understanding of politics. What is even worse is that they perceive themselves as intellectuals because they believe everything their professors drone about. I get labeled as a small minded and uncompassionate for actually looking at how things work outside of the classroom. Its really tough, especiallly up here in New York.

[CBT]

Thanks, all I can say is that I know I am one of a very small percentage of those my age. Its really a shame that most of us youngsters have such a shallow understanding of politics. What is even worse is that they perceive themselves as intellectuals because they believe everything their professors drone about. I get labeled as a small minded and uncompassionate for actually looking at how things work outside of the classroom.

My 21 year old co-worker was an Obama supporter. I asked her to name one good thing he did. "He's charismatic." I said "So was Charles Manson, and I can't think of one good thing he did either."

[Joe Walsh]

I stand corrected.

I maintain my position on all other points though. I think we found the problem though- you're getting your information from places like the Reason Foundation, a libertarian think tank! Besides, it's easy to find articles rebutting any position on just about any subject these days. It seems to me most of those articles were complaining because it didn't help so and so or was designed to only help the auto industry under the guise of protecting the environment. So what if it does both? Win and win as far as I'm concerned.

Of course it's not perfect, NOTHING from the government ever will be, but the private sector royally screwed up this past year and we're just going to have to deal with a bit more government on our backs for a while. Try and make the best of it, keep them on their toes, and ask questions, but don't blindly hate.

Oh, and they still teach Reagan in school. ;)

OOPS!!! Sorry, You just shot your own argument to hell!

Please define;
"a bit more"
"for a while"

Please tell of a government department, program or agency that was reduced in size and scope under the Democrat's rule???

Here...I'll give you one: The Military
It is the only one that the Democrats will reduce in size.

Do you really think that they will lessen their control of any aspect of our lives once government has 'gotten their foot in the door'?

You probably are a firm believer in the Social Security program.

BTW: That is an incredible waste of vehicles that are in good shape.
How much air pollution is generated by this engine destroying techinique?
How much fuel is used to manufacture a new Toyota?
I'm glad that they allowed the Cash for Clunkers program to be used for purchasing foreign made vehicles...
Weren't we trying to help revive the US Auto industry ???
Oh! That's right! The Government now owns most of the US Auto industry....so I guess it doesn't matter.
UFB!

[MXSG]

Obama gun pay my mortgage and child support! Free watermelons for all!

Wow, between the racism and ignorance on display in this thread I'm probably more ashamed to be associated with Marauder owners than I would be if I was part of the far right... I guess someone should have asked to see my Party registration before letting me purchase the car. :lol:



OOPS!!! Sorry, You just shot your own argument to hell!

Please define;
"a bit more"
"for a while"

It seems you crushed my entire argument by quoting a few common everyday phrases I used, so I'm defeated it would seem? Next time I'll be sure to use specific numbers and time frames, even though that would require looking into the future. I'll leave that to you since based on your following comments you have such a gift...


Please tell of a government department, program or agency that was reduced in size and scope under the Democrat's rule???

Here...I'll give you one: The Military
It is the only one that the Democrats will reduce in size.

Do you really think that they will lessen their control of any aspect of our lives once government has 'gotten their foot in the door'?


You probably are a firm believer in the Social Security program.

Didn't W use up most of it for his war?!


BTW: That is an incredible waste of vehicles that are in good shape.
How much air pollution is generated by this engine destroying techinique?
How much fuel is used to manufacture a new Toyota?
I'm glad that they allowed the Cash for Clunkers program to be used for purchasing foreign made vehicles...
Weren't we trying to help revive the US Auto industry ???
Oh! That's right! The Government now owns most of the US Auto industry....so I guess it doesn't matter.
UFB!

You're once again looking at things from a narrow-minded perspective. This whole "US Automakers/Foreign Automakers" argument is hardly applicable these days. But I'm sure they didn't teach much on World economics back in your day.

And if you want to provide some research on your theory about the resources needed to destroy a car versus the potential saving over the lifespan of a new more efficient vehicle then feel free.

[SC Cheesehead]

My 21 year old co-worker was an Obama supporter. I asked her to name one good thing he did. "He's charismatic." I said "So was Charles Manson, and I can't think of one good thing he did either."


Hmmmm, that reminds me, there was a guy a few years back; German fellow, the name escapes me right now. He was considered very charismatic as well...

[LIGHTNIN1]

Charasmatic, didn't they use that word to describe John Gotti?

[SC Cheesehead]

Charasmatic, didn't they use that word to describe John Gotti?

Yeah, forgot about him. Charismatic must be a good thing, huh? :rolleyes:

[Joe Walsh]

Wow, between the racism and ignorance on display in this thread I'm probably more ashamed to be associated with Marauder owners than I would be if I was part of the far right... I guess someone should have asked to see my Party registration before letting me purchase the car. :lol:




It seems you crushed my entire argument by quoting a few common everyday phrases I used, so I'm defeated it would seem? Next time I'll be sure to use specific numbers and time frames, even though that would require looking into the future. I'll leave that to you since based on your following comments you have such a gift...





Didn't W use up most of it for his war?!



You're once again looking at things from a narrow-minded perspective. This whole "US Automakers/Foreign Automakers" argument is hardly applicable these days. But I'm sure they didn't teach much on World economics back in your day.

And if you want to provide some research on your theory about the resources needed to destroy a car versus the potential saving over the lifespan of a new more efficient vehicle then feel free.

Being such an 'old fart' as you imply, I am glad of one thing....
I will be long gone while you will be saddled with some incredible taxes as you enjoy your government dictated lifestyle.
I might even get some Social Security payments along the way....you, being young,....ahhhh...well keep paying your S.S. taxes!

BTW: Why did you buy such a large, heavy, fuel guzzling domestic car like the Marauder?
Shouldn't you be driving a hybird and posting on the Prius forums?

[rayjay]

Hmmmm, that reminds me, there was a guy a few years back; German fellow, the name escapes me right now. He was considered very charismatic as well...

I think it was Uncle Adolf, ???

MXSG, there is a reason ammunition is flying off the shelves as fast as it hits the stores... Hang on to your behind folks...

- AND - where the hell is you're messiah's birth certificate. Why can't Barry Satoro produce it? I have a certified copy of mine in the house. Interesting.

[SC Cheesehead]

Joe,

Our friend's comments remind me of the story line from a 60's-era movie: Wild in the Streets (well before his time, so obviously it's an old-guy thing).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e8/Wild_in_the_streets_dvd_cover. jpg/200px-Wild_in_the_streets_dvd_cover. jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wild_in_the_streets_dvd_c over.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g17OT7_YzLM

Face it, we're old, we're history. Replaced by the "truly enlightened." :(----------->:rolleyes:

[rayjay]

Joe,

Our friend's comments remind me of the story line from a 60's-era movie: Wild in the Streets (well before his time, so obviously it's an old-guy thing).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e8/Wild_in_the_streets_dvd_cover. jpg/200px-Wild_in_the_streets_dvd_cover. jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wild_in_the_streets_dvd_c over.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g17OT7_YzLM

Face it, we're old, we're history. Replaced by the "truly enlightened." :(----------->:rolleyes:

Don't ya just love sheepeople? I wonder how they taste as that maybe all thats left to eat in the future.

[Joe Walsh]

I don't know why I am upset or worried...the Government will take care of me!

(But first; I'll have to quit my job, quit paying taxes, max out all my credit cards, make stupid decisions, and then whine until the Government helps me out....:hmmm:.....Maybe I can I become an illegal alien....:dunno:?)

[SC Cheesehead]

Don't ya just love sheepeople? I wonder how they taste as that maybe all thats left to eat in the future.

Soylent Green....

http://www.spleenworld.com/heston/wav/soylent.au

[Joe Walsh]

Hey Guys....we are all good-to-go!

Obama is going to "Unleash Prosperity for Everybody"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32283931/ns/us_news-the_elkhart_project/?GT1=43001

Sorry for the thread Hijack...back to the discussion on the government's awesome multi-BILLION dollar 'Cash for Clunkers' program!

[omarauder]

Thinking of starting my own "Cash for Old Italian Sports Car Clunkers" program. Would work like this: I give you $4500 for your older gas gusselling Ferrari, Lambo, etc, and the environment, polar bears, etc, will be so happy.....
Think there'll be any takers?

[SC Cheesehead]

Hey Guys....we are all good-to-go!

Obama is going to "Unleash Prosperity for Everybody"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32283931/ns/us_news-the_elkhart_project/?GT1=43001

Sorry for the thread Hijack...back to the discussion on the government's awesome multi-BILLION dollar 'Cash for Clunkers' program!

Hey, give the man credit....
http://new.wavlist.com/movies/322/tbb-bull.wav

[SC Cheesehead]

Thinking of starting my own "Cash for Old Italian Sports Car Clunkers" program. Would work like this: I give you $4500 for your older gas gusselling Ferrari, Lambo, etc, and the environment, polar bears, etc, will be so happy.....
Think there'll be any takers?


A truly entrepreneurial concept! http://www.vpsingles.com/pics/super.gif

[LIGHTNIN1]

Breaking news!!! The government has just announced their new Cash For Toilets program where they give you a voucher to trade in your old inefficient toilet for one that uses only one gallon. I know it did not work last time but believe me this time it will be different.

[RedMerc04]

My 21 year old co-worker was an Obama supporter. I asked her to name one good thing he did. "He's charismatic." I said "So was Charles Manson, and I can't think of one good thing he did either."
Its funny that you mention him. Maybe you are on to something, maybe the "beer summit" was intended to cover up the begining of Helter Skelter? Just kidding... But Im sure that you got quite a look when you mentioned Charles Manson.

[Leadfoot281]

I have a serious question. I have not watched TV since Nov 5th so I really don't know what all is currently going on.

What was the purpose of this program? What was it designed to do?

If this was designed to fix the environment, how can we tell if it's working? Is the Earth cooling off?

If it was designed to "stimulate" the economy, why are there so many semi-loads of new Toyotas and Kia's rolling through town? Did the car manufactures still need more money after the umpteen billions we already gave them?

If he wanted to fix the environment, wouldn't a few new nuclear power plants been a better choice instead? Why not tear down and old, drafty, energy inefficient city like Chicago and re-build it using "green" energy saving methods?

If this was designed to "stimulate" the economy, why didn't he just send me $1,000,000,000 instead? I would have flown to Vegas and REALLY stimulated the hell outta the economy! And I could have done it without sending any money to Japan or Korea. As a bonus, my videos would be much more fun to watch.

So, exactly what was the goal of this program? Environment or economy? :confused:

[Joe Walsh]

So, exactly what was the goal with this program? Environment or economy? :confused:

The goal was to act as if they were doing something and they did what the government always does:

Throw our money at a perceived problem and hope that it somehow fixes something.

Typical government 'wonk' when asked the same question:----> :dunno:

Hey, In Wash. DC, they are paying kids in the woeful public school system....to get good grades!
Why expect and require kids to do something that they are there for in the first place, when you can just pay them to do it!

[CBT]

What was the purpose of this program? What was it designed to do?
:confused:

Allow myself to quote...myself. Government bails out auto companies (minus Ford). Government comes up with C for C's program to recoup money by making you think you are saving money when you actually just took on more debt than you had. All this makes the Federal Reserve, which is not even a part of the government by the way, very happy.

[LIGHTNIN1]

Allow myself to quote...myself. Government bails out auto companies (minus Ford). Government comes up with C for C's program to recoup money by making you think you are saving money when you actually just took on more debt than you had. All this makes the Federal Reserve, which is not even a part of the government by the way, very happy.

Plain english.Couldn't have been stated clearer.

[glassman99]

The problem is...they think it is successful and will repeat it in the near future.

[FordNut]

I think James Gregory described it best...

The government bribing people with their own money to buy something they can't afford or don't need because if they really needed or could afford it they would have already bought it.

Sheep...

[timfromme]

Is the Government making some money back on this deal? Didn't the government now own more than half of General Motors stock to help them with their bankruptcy? That is the reason for the Government Motors joke. Government Motors has the most percentage of selling new vehicles under the CARS program at the moment.

[rayjay]

Is the Government making some money back on this deal?

Yea, they will eventually raise your taxes to pay for this program and all the defaulted loans it creates.

[Bluerauder]

Government Motors has the most percentage of selling new vehicles under the CARS program at the moment.
Not true according to the numbers that I have seen. More than half are buying imports brands ...

60% - Toyota, Honda, Nissan .....
20% - Ford, Lincoln, Mercury
10% - Chevy, GM
10% - Dodge, Chrysler

[Joe Walsh]

I just read an article about the recycling/scrap yards opinion on this 'great' program.
They are pissed, think that it is a really stupid program, and many yards are refusing to buy the Cash for Clunkers cars.

Here's why:

1: Engine is destroyed....50-60% of the scrap value in a vehicle is the engine and it's parts.
2: They can't start the engine to test the transmission for it's condition.
3: It complicates the disassembly...Ever try to seperate a transmission from a seized engine? Think about it.
4: The amount of extra paperwork required is burdensome...(Imagine that! A government program with lots of paperwork. :rolleyes:)
It is not worth their effort for what they get.
5: Vehicles cannot be resold to anyone else...even another scrap yard.
6: Vehicles must be crushed/shredded within 6 months. The scrapyards can't leave them on their yard for people to continue to buy parts off of them.

Bravo!...Another well thought out government program!

[SC Cheesehead]

I just read an article about the recycling/scrap yards opinion on this 'great' program.
They are pissed, think that it is a really stupid program, and many yards are refusing to buy the Cash for Clunkers cars.

Here's why:

1: Engine is destroyed....50-60% of the scrap value in a vehicle is the engine and it's parts.
2: They can't start the engine to test the transmission for it's condition.
3: It complicates the disassembly...Ever try to seperate a transmission from a seized engine? Think about it.
4: The amount of extra paperwork required is burdensome...(Imagine that! A government program with lots of paperwork. :rolleyes:)
It is not worth their effort for what they get.
5: Vehicles cannot be resold to anyone else...even another scrap yard.
6: Vehicles must be crushed/shredded within 6 months. The scrapyards can't leave them on their yard for people to continue to buy parts off of them.

Bravo!...Another well thought out government program!

Yes Joe, but doing this will SAVE the environment. :rolleyes:

CYCBI....:shake: