Got to drive someone elses Marauder and compare to mine. Wow my brake pedal is hard.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I have owned my Marauder from 23k miles to current 40k miles. The car had its original front and rear brakes and pads when I got it, which I immediately changed out. My car has always had a hard brake pedal and the brakes were never grabby. The effort was much higher than I expected for a newer car but I figured thats just the way it was. I have tried several brake pads including OE and now I am using some premium ceramic pads. Pads were not the problem

I got to drive another marauder w/ stock type brakes tonight and the pedal grabbed much higher than mine and felt very boosted by the power assist - very little effort required to apply the brakes, like any other new car

So now I get to figure out why my brake pedal has been so hard the whole time, but not gotten any worse over time either. I am going to pull a vacuum on the booster tomorrow and see if it holds. I am also going to pull the calipers and check for any stuck pistons. The car doesn't pull at all braking though and I would think that if any one piston were stuck that it would pull.

Any other ideas? I would think a bad master would have gotten worse or failed over almost 20k miles.

[sd8683]

I have cryo treated power slot rotors, Napa adaptive1 ceramic pads and stainless steel brake lines, and I am not very happy with my cars braking ability, the pedal is pretty mushy and stopping performance isn't that great, I will be looking into other options next time around.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I am pretty sure it is not my brake combo, I have had a couple sets of different pads and rotors on this car. Even w/ the original OE pads and rotors, which were not in horrible shape but I tend to throw brakes out when they begin to look scored even though most people would put a lot more mileage on them, the pedal was very hard. From the get go when I bought this car I thought, wow the brakes suck, must just be a heavy car. There has gotta be something wrong with something, when I drove the other MM tonight that has about the same mileage as mine I couldn't believe how light the pedal pressure was, how much higher the pedal grabbed than mine, and how grabby the brakes were on t'other car.

[NATEHAWK]

Sounds like a brake booster if its not enough power for the brakes or clogged line maybe...have you tried vacumn bleeding the brakes?

[Blackened300a]

My brakes suck too, I changed all 4 rotors and new pads, new master and all new fluid. My car still stops like crap.

[GAMike]

No substitute for increased brake swept area..... Going from 11+" up front to 14"(Front brakes do the lion share of the work in our cars) was by far the best mod, I ever did to my black Marauder, & second best add on on the Banshee (Trilogy SC being #1).

Changers how you can drive the car completly around.:burnout:

[Jim_Rockford]

Only thing that would cause a hard pedal would be a booster issue. he has a hard pedal so there is no air in the lines.

[Blackmobile]

You to add a little info, the brake booster has a little adjuster on the end of the shaft. I noticed it when I pulled my booster off. It may need to be adjusted out a tad.

Ed

[ImpalaSlayer]

baer brakes ftw!

[ctrlraven]

You to add a little info, the brake booster has a little adjuster on the end of the shaft. I noticed it when I pulled my booster off. It may need to be adjusted out a tad.

Ed
Where is this adjuster? Mine don't start to really grab until 50% down on the pedal. I have EBC rotors, napa pads and kvr brake SS lines. I've bleed the brake system twice and still feels the same. I'm going to probably go back to stock rotors and pads on the front and have my friend flush and bleed the system.

[Blackmobile]

Where is this adjuster? Mine don't start to really grab until 50% down on the pedal. I have EBC rotors, napa pads and kvr brake SS lines. I've bleed the brake system twice and still feels the same. I'm going to probably go back to stock rotors and pads on the front and have my friend flush and bleed the system.

Before you do all that, separate the MC from the brake booster and you'll see the adjustment on the end of the shaft that goes into the MC. My suggestion is to do little adjustments at a time, but mark the original position of the adjuster. I'll see about getting a pix of the booster I removed from my MM.

[offroadkarter]

man do i love my good brakes! :D

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Yeah not having 11" brakes is not the problem. Ryan (karter) above drove my car and compared to his, back to back. He can vouch for how there is definitely something wrong with my brakes stock for stock compared to his.

[Blackmobile]

Here's a pix of the MM brake Booster and as you can see there is an adjustment on the end of the shaft.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/556/Brake_Booster_adjustment_close-up.jpg (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/16189)

[in2deep]

Try new brake fluid first. Afterall its 6 years old.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

flush and bleed will be my first course of action, that is a good idea and for $10 or less worth of fluid it can't hurt.

The pedal push rod adjuster I would think, from working on older cars w/ adjustable pedal push rods, would give you slack in the pedal if it was too short. You'd have some free travel with zero resistance before the pedal started pushing against the master. I don't have that, just a very hard pedal. I will take a look at the FSM tonight to see what it says about the adjuster.

[Marauderjack]

For a short period I ran ceramic pads and the pedal pressure was DOUBLE the OEM pads.....I noticed it IMMEDIATELY and wondered what I did wrong??:eek:

Got a refund for the ceramics....ordered OEM's from FORD and all is well!!:beer:

My $.02.....:cool:

[offroadkarter]

For a short period I ran ceramic pads and the pedal pressure was DOUBLE the OEM pads.....I noticed it IMMEDIATELY and wondered what I did wrong??:eek:

Got a refund for the ceramics....ordered OEM's from FORD and all is well!!:beer:

My $.02.....:cool:



this definitely isnt the pads, its like the pads arent making contact with the rotor til you are half way to the floor

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I think the Faggio scooter has better brakes than my car

[ctrlraven]

this definitely isnt the pads, its like the pads arent making contact with the rotor til you are half way to the floor
That's exactly how mine is.

[offroadkarter]

I think the Faggio scooter has better brakes than my car

Front? Yes, rear, no!

Couldn't even do a wheelie :(


That's exactly how mine is.


I can tap my brakes and my car starts to slow.... I think your car has VEB syndrome, might want to sell it cause its not perfect! :D

[lifespeed]

flush and bleed will be my first course of action, that is a good idea and for $10 or less worth of fluid it can't hurt.

The pedal push rod adjuster I would think, from working on older cars w/ adjustable pedal push rods, would give you slack in the pedal if it was too short. You'd have some free travel with zero resistance before the pedal started pushing against the master. I don't have that, just a very hard pedal. I will take a look at the FSM tonight to see what it says about the adjuster.

I have always had a hard pedal, got the car at 33K, now at 54K.

I put new command automotive rotors on, Hawk ferro-carbon pads, and bled the brakes. The pedal is very soft now. Stops OK, can't tell for sure until the pads break in a bit more.

[03mmmonroe]

You will find it is normal for a 300A mine was the same way. I swap all barke parts over the first 12k on mine no change. What did help with peddle travel was when I installed my KVR front calipers. I think what it comes down to is the pad travel at the front calipers. I also worked on a police car at one of my dealers with same concern and new oem calipers repaired the travel concern with that car. With mine the stock calipers I had no change but that was back in 2003. Hope this help. There is not a porblem. the brakes with always stop your car just has more peddle travel. Enjoy the car.

[Spectragod]

Mine too, had the same problem, lots -O- travel and didn't feel like you would stop, I changed out the brakes front/rear, Wilwoods from TCE.

My car has 18K on it, and while the stock brakes worked, they just didn't feel like they were grabbing. They definatley do now.

I drove it after just the front change, that made a huge difference. The rears in my mind were simply for the aesthetics, but also made a difference.

I am using Adaptive One ceramics and NAPA's cross drilled/slotted rotors (hey, they were free), on my LX Sport, much better than OEM IMO.

The Vic had pedal travel issues when I got it, it took some arguing, but I got the dealer to replace my master cylinder due to an internal leak, but that's a soft pedal, not a hard one. I would most definatly look at a vacuum leak on the booster, or maybe a bad booster, had that happen once as well.

[lifespeed]

You will find it is normal for a 300A mine was the same way.

You're not saying the early model of Marauder has brakes that are different somehow, are you?

AFAIK, the brakes are all the same: Marauder, Crown Vic, Gran Marquis, etc.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I think the guys w/ the 300A's think all the problems w/ their cars are normal. J/K.

[CBT]

I think the guys w/ the 300A's think all the problems w/ their cars are normal. J/K.

LMMFAO! The love, I can feel it.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I FIXED MY SPONGEY BRAKES, if anyone is interested.

I bled about a pint of fluid through the system (total from all 4 corners) and my brakes are now high and grab great. I had never bled the brakes but I didn't think a 40k mile car would need it. The only thing I can think of is that when I initially installed new brake pads @ 23k miles when I first got the car (and I did open the bleeder because you are not supposed to force fluid back upstream in an ABS car by compressing the pads w/ the bleeders closed) that I introduced air into the system because I had a slightly tough time compressing the dual piston setup without a proper pad spreader.

I have driven this car from 2007 to current and hated the brakes (I have so many other projects going on the Marauder does not get any attention) and finally they work properly.

Big brake kit nor stainless lines, not required.

Steve

[justbob]

I FIXED MY SPONGEY BRAKES, if anyone is interested.

I bled about a pint of fluid through the system (total from all 4 corners) and my brakes are now high and grab great. I had never bled the brakes but I didn't think a 40k mile car would need it. The only thing I can think of is that when I initially installed new brake pads @ 23k miles when I first got the car (and I did open the bleeder because you are not supposed to force fluid back upstream in an ABS car by compressing the pads w/ the bleeders closed) that I introduced air into the system because I had a slightly tough time compressing the dual piston setup without a proper pad spreader.

I have driven this car from 2007 to current and hated the brakes (I have so many other projects going on the Marauder does not get any attention) and finally they work properly.

Big brake kit nor stainless lines, not required.

Steve
Interesting, I have never heard of this. I have done hundreds of brake jobs on ABS cars, if not more, and never had an issue. What kind of problems are people having?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

You are not supposed to backflush fluid through the system because supposedly you can contaminate the valves in the abs controller.

[justbob]

:dunno:Its a sealed system though?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Look at the color of fluid that comes out, it was brown on my 40k mile car, it has contaminants in it from something

[Phrog_gunner]

Interesting, I have never heard of this. I have done hundreds of brake jobs on ABS cars, if not more, and never had an issue. What kind of problems are people having?

The way I was taught, is that the way the ABS system works is like a series of CBTs.....I mean check valves. So if you force the fluid back up the system instead of bleeding it out, then you can ruin the ABS module. You are correct justbob, it doesn't happen everytime you do that to the brakes, but it only takes once before you realize its not worth the cost of an ABS module.

[justbob]

Now that I have heard of.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

That's what I said.

[justbob]

Backpressure on the solenoids I have heard of, but very very rare. The shop I worked at for six years never once opened a bleeder to compress and never once encountered an issue.

But I have never heard of opening a bleeder to compress calipers because of dirty fluid is all. No arguments here, just news to me.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I think from now on I'll leave them closed, I think the spongey brakes were from my well-wishing efforts to open the bleeders and not holding both pistons down. Just gotta make sure I exercise the bleeders so they don't get stuck and break off like so many other things I"ve worked on.

[Phrog_gunner]

I think from now on I'll leave them closed, I think the spongey brakes were from my well-wishing efforts to open the bleeders and not holding both pistons down.

That doesn't always work either. I had Maybellene's brakes apart to turn the rotors because of a slight pulsing. I reused the same pads and the rotor was now thinner, but the piston on the caliper must have crept out slightly because it still wouldn't go back together. Since it was only a tiny amount, I moved the piston back in a hair, just enough to get the brakes back together. I could immediately feel the air in the line with the mushy pedal, so the brakes had to be bled anyways. This is my first car with ABS, so all of my other brake jobs I have just pushed the piston back in and never had this happen. Maybe I'm just unlucky?? :confused:

[ctrlraven]

I still haven't bled mine yet, I'll do that Wednesday I hope and see how that feels and if still the same then I'll get the system flushed by my friend who works at a Ford dealership this upcoming weekend.