Good Bye Everyone

[Menace]

I will no longer be a member of this site because I have been told by Logan that I am no longer allowed to give my opinion. I hope the same doesn't happen to any of you. Oh well it was fun while it lasted. So long everyone and good luck with your Marauders. ( I doubt that many of you will see this as it will probably be deleted.) Rick :P


GO AHEAD BIG MAN PULL THE PLUG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Logan]

No, actually it won't. You want to behave like a kid who got spanked, go right ahead.

For the record, you weren't told you can't post your opinion, you were told:



Logan wrote on 10-16-2003 05:47 PM:
Your post was deleted and the thread was closed because your comments would've inevitably turned the conversation into a mud slinging battle as it has numerous times in the past regarding trilogy vs reinhart discussions. It certainly wasn't personal. I was TRYING to head off a friggin disaster. Everytime a thread heats up, I spend days placating everyone involved.

You go and post a thread like that, calling me out on the forums again and your account will be closed permanently. You could've easily sent me a PM and I'd of HAPPILY explained what the problem was in great detail.

Instead, you chose to be antagonistic with me. You've been around long enough to know I won't put up with childish bull****. I simply close accounts.

Last warning, stop being a pain in my ass.

If you don't like the website or how it's run, please, for god's sakes, go elsewhere.


You were also told:



Logan wrote on 10-16-2003 05:49 PM:
...Feel free to continue to ***** at me via PM's or email, but believe me when I say, if you take your griping back to the forums, your account will be immediately terminated without recourse.


I could also post the countless complaints I've received about you and derogatory PM's you've sent to numerous people on this site, but I think I've made my point.

That being said, See ya, your decision. No skin off my bones my man. :rolleyes:

As for this thread, I'm leaving it open to comment.

Do you, as a general populace WANT me to loosen up and let the forum turn into a free for all? Or do you want me to maintain a sense of decorum and decency? I don't know that opinions will change how I do things, but I'm open to thoughts on the matter.

My whole philosophy revolves around people being able to enjoy the site and not to let an individual cause undo or unwarranted stress or raise the blood pressure of others.

Some folks "get" that, some just want to be asses and behave like children. (Not directed at menace in particular...) To each his own.

Bottom line, I'm getting sick and tired of people going off on ME because of their own damn actions. Be accountable, play nice, and for god's sakes if you can't say somthing nice....Be prepared to have your account closed.

[paheff]

Being new to this site, one of the first things that I noticed (and whats kept me coming back) was that there is a real sense of community here. Everyone seems to conduct themselves in, for lack of a better word, an adult manner. Even disagreement is expressed in a respectful manner and I , for one, think you run this board rather well.

[usgecko]

Keep doing what you are doing moderating a forum requires that you keep a pretty tight rein on things.
This is a great forum where I have already had a lot of helpful advice.

Thanks guys

[sailsmen]

Logan, keep doing what your'e doing.

If only Mercury knew how much passion this car instills!:) :) :)

[merc406]

Menace, good-bye, was glad I got to meet you and your future bride this last summer and to see your Marauder. Sometimes our excitement of our rides get the best of us, but we are all guests here as well as members, and I think you'd agree their has to be rules of sorts determined by the web site owner.
Hope you can work something out with Logan, you won't find a better Marauder site or group of guy's and gal's.

[Smokie]

Logan I want to be a part of a forum where all are welcome and we agree and disagree with respect and courtesy toward each other. Every now and then there is an individual that crosses the line and in doing so diminishes the enjoyment that we all get out of this forum, please continue to do the fine job that you are doing as referee or babysitter in some cases. You have my gratitude and full support.

[TAF]

My honest opinion, Logan. I think the thread in question here should have been pulled. I saw his post (let me clarify, I saw a post from Menace...maybe not the one edited) in that thread that wasn't all that "out-of-spirit" with the nature of what the thread was allowed to be.

Now, I have not always agreed with Menace, or liked all of his posts, and feel several were deleted for good reason. This one in my opinion, could have been handled by removal of the thread which I knew could have easily gotten out of hand.

I don't agree with Menace starting this "good-bye, kiss my :censor:" post, either though.

Frankly, there was much more inflamatory stuff going on this afternoon from a vendor here, that had me ticked off.

But, there... you have an honest opinion from me.

[Petrograde]

I never really looked at forums of any kind before MM.net. I've recently start checking a few others out. All I can say is .. Jeez! :rolleyes: they are pretty nasty sometimes! Not the kind of environment where you'd want to ask any questions or just bounce some ideas around.

I like the feeling of community here, the camaraderie. Our own little society, .. for any society to run smoothly and effectively you gotta have rules! We are all adults here.

Thank you Logan and LML for providing us a useful forum.

Tom

[the fat bastid]

i belive almost all of the so called 'bad blood' between certain groups of people was all menace's fault because of his insesent badgering regarding certain subjects. good riddance...but in person hes a nice guy. eh, the net is funny like that.

and logan, please continue to rule us with an iron fist and don't let this place degrade into the cess pool that other forums become.

[kirk]

I agree with the general drift here. I have visited other forums for information only to waste time reading nothing but mud slinging. It's nice to be nice.

[Long Live #3]

Geeze Menace! Why do you have to be such an ass to Logan? He's the best guy to even come up with the idea of this site and your just kicking him in the teeth! I don't want this site to be another LS1.com. I come back to this site every day because I know that I will be treated with respect, and I give the same respect back to the forum. But when I see people like you treating another forum member like s**t, you don't even want to know what I want to do. I don't want to ever see something like that again.

[Marauder57]

Logan, I appreciate the MM.net forum....hell I might not have my MM if it were not for the group here....

You da boss....and that has good and bad aspects.....I think I speak for a lot of us.....I like being here...and enjoy this board being a part of my day....Life is too short for petty stuff from anyone I would prefer we all enjoy our rides....and each other....

Thanks again Logan....

[the fat bastid]

I don't want this site to be another LS1.com.

hahahhahahhahaha...ok....hahah ahhaha.
hahaha awh man...thats funny because its true...hahahhaa..yeah...

[Long Live #3]

I used to be a member on LS1.com. I got so fed up with all the crap that was going on, by that I mean constant dissing and burning, that I decided to come here on account of my friend. He said that the MM.net guys were really nice to everyone and that everyone treated each other with R-E-S-P-E-C-T. I even had my LS1.com S/N, Long Live #3, deleated from their directory.

[JerseyVics]

Menace (Rick) please don't leave. Obviously you disagree with what was said and done but thats the way these forums work and I actualy appreciate teh way Logan is carrying on drawing from great expierience on f150online.com and the Lightning forums.

I don't think you should leave because even if you dissagree on this issue there are and will be a number of others where you will want to get people's opinions and share experiences on many others. You leaving will be your loss and the loss of the board because you're a valuable member.


Dispite the fact that others have jumped on a bandwagon of bashing you those are just opinions and they may not be right considering you have met these people and they have met you. But like I said before its a community and dissagreement is a healthy part of its development.


Tuner wars are no fun and posts comparing tuners are what spark the controversy. If you or any other tuner supporters and essentialy owners of the tuner products wish to write a review stating an opinion on the quality of the product feel free to write an article with pictures and send them to me JerseyVics@aol.com to post on my web site: www.jerseyvics.com I have an information site that is not subject to tuner wars because of the lack of open discussion. All articles are backed up by timeslips or photos and are based on opinons of owners of the mods on their personal vehicles. Anyone is welcome to use my site if you desire to state your opinion on a product. The thread that got you all ecited and wanting to leave shouldn't have been posted and if it slipped throu the cracks should have been locked immediately because its violating the rules of this forum.



Now its just a matter of time before you and Logan "kiss and make up" so to speak and continue contributing valuable info to this community.



than again this is just my view on this....

--Russ

[valleyman]

What paheff and Smokie said. This site is, without a doubt, a sterling example of what the web can be at its best. Keep up the good work.

[deerejoe]

Individual integrity is mandatory when discussing issues.
Have the facts...not just opinions.
Respect the opinion of others, especially if its their issue.

This website hosts a Forum among other features.
It is maintained in a professional and courteous manner and is openly offered to ALL who seek a commonality of interests.

In my observations and participation to date, I have felt welcome
and comfortable within the group.
Much can be learned just through observation.
No one has to feel inferior due to a lack of knowledge regarding the topics being discussed.
Those who wish to participate, do so...while most are content with observing and picking out whatever tidbit of information that has relevance.

These 'forum' type websites can attract both the good and the bad of surfers.
We have all seen the sorry state the internet CHAT rooms have become...even with so called monitors, etc., the garbage still prevails.

Logan has chosen (wisely) to manage this site with a high level of personal decorum and ALL who wish to participate must adhere to those parameters. I applaud him for it.

Personally, I do not find it in my best interest having to scroll though volumes of diatribes in search of substance.
With a world of other sites and information...I came here AND have stayed here for one purpose...Marauder news and technical information.

I'm sure that I'm NOT alone in that mission.

[martyo]

I am in Hershey with the friends I met here. This is the third (second for me) large scale meet in 30 days. What does that tell you?

Can I offer anyone of you guys some Chocolate?

[Zack]

Well in a nutshell, everyone has a right to buy, promote and support the vendor of their choice. But when you bash a vendor and his past years worth of hard work, it is like your best friend just screwed your wife. So with that said, he's got a sore d*ck because because 99% of us are married to Dennis in some fashion.

[Long Live #3]

Originally posted by Zack
So with that said, he's got a sore d*ck because because 99% of us are married to Dennis in some fashion.

I'm in the 1% group there.

[Directedby]

He'll be back. Maybe under a different name, but he'll be back.

Funny, here is how the dictionary defines 'menace' - nuisance, pain the the neck, troublemaker, pest and annoyance.

Hmmmmmm....?

Maybe he will return as member #1242 under the name "delightful".

[LincMercLover]

Originally posted by Zack
But when you bash a vendor and his past years worth of hard work, it is like your best friend just screwed your wife. So with that said, he's got a sore d*ck because because 99% of us are married to Dennis in some fashion.

Wow... Umm... Yah, I suppose you could look at it that way... LOL! http://66.113.138.44/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wtf.gif

[Bigdogjim]

Well Logan you would not make a good judge!

You let the guy off too too easy!

You shoud have let George work on him for a while!

Punishment must fit the crime!

menace: Next time around learn the "house rules".

I will "miss" you in some form.

I did not always agree with your style of writing.

Post and let post!

Now quick send in George! :)

[LincMercLover]

Just cause George likes you best... Geez...

[Bigdogjim]

Logan: I have had a request from a few members to leave this thread open due the fact that some are traveling this weekend.

Thanks

[Bigdogjim]

Originally posted by LincMercLover
Just cause George likes you best... Geez...


George is my hero!!!!!!!!

He is MY BUDDY!!!!!:) :D :coolman:

[Long Live #3]

George is really wierd. No offence or anything, but he is weird. He thinks that he's a robot or something.

[Donald]

Logan,

For us folks that grew up online via CompuServe, where forums were moderated and people were bounced for crossing a well known and published line, the Internet and newsgroups were a descent into hell. When CompuServe opened the forums to the Internet one could see the quality of messages and social intercourse drop like the Iraqi dinar post Saddam.

It was a breath of fresh air to find a web based forum that was civil.

This is your sandbox and your rules. If people don't like the rules or your actions they can leave and start their own site that has no rules.

[vegasmarauder]

One of the things I was very impressed with and enjoyed at Ennis was the fact the various vendors would sometimes be within 5 feet of each other and remained respectfull and friendly. I saw that amoung all the people attending who had stuff from a boatload of aftermarket sources. Everyone looked, listened and enjoyed without animoisity. I felt a part of the club immediately even though I never met a one of you before.
The same thing goes on here (for the most part). I like that, I support that, and I want it to continue. That requires someone to hold the switch. Logan does a great job of that.

[Ken]

Originally posted by deerejoe
Individual integrity is mandatory when discussing issues.
Have the facts...not just opinions.
Respect the opinion of others, especially if its their issue.

This website hosts a Forum among other features.
It is maintained in a professional and courteous manner and is openly offered to ALL who seek a commonality of interests.

In my observations and participation to date, I have felt welcome
and comfortable within the group.
Much can be learned just through observation.
No one has to feel inferior due to a lack of knowledge regarding the topics being discussed.
Those who wish to participate, do so...while most are content with observing and picking out whatever tidbit of information that has relevance.

These 'forum' type websites can attract both the good and the bad of surfers.
We have all seen the sorry state the internet CHAT rooms have become...even with so called monitors, etc., the garbage still prevails.

Logan has chosen (wisely) to manage this site with a high level of personal decorum and ALL who wish to participate must adhere to those parameters. I applaud him for it.

Personally, I do not find it in my best interest having to scroll though volumes of diatribes in search of substance.
With a world of other sites and information...I came here AND have stayed here for one purpose...Marauder news and technical information.

I'm sure that I'm NOT alone in that mission.
:up:

[Long Live #3]

Logan kicks arse! Thank you for starting MM.net!

[Bigdogjim]

Originally posted by Long Live #3
George is really wierd. No offence or anything, but he is weird. He thinks that he's a robot or something.

Hey lets not pick on my buddy! :lol:

[Long Live #3]

Originally posted by Bigdogjim
Hey lets not pick on my buddy! :lol:

I'm not kiddin! He does act like he's a robot or something!

[BillyGman]

are on the net:
I'm a Moderator of another board, and even though I don't know what happened w/that other thread concerning menace, and LOGAN, all I can say is that being a MOD myself has reminded me that some people simply have a BIG problem w/any authority whatsoever, and a moderator or administrator of any internet board like this one is an authority figure since he does have a certain degree of authority just as LOGAN does, and RIGHTLY SO. People have to reailize that if you allow members to have 100% freedom of speech on a board like this, then sooner or later it becomes chaotic because some individuals will abuse that freedom, instead of using it responsibly.
So LOGAN, I'm w/ya Brutha! And you'll always have my support. My theory is that Moderators, and Administrators are like referees in a ball game. If a player pushes another player, then he gets a warning. But if that player pushes the ref, then he's gone. And that's the way it needs to be on the interenet regarding those in charge of boards like this. It's fine for anyone to voice their disagreement w/another member, just as long as he/she voices their opposing opinion w/out flaming or bashing the other member in question. And it's as simple as that. otherwise boards like this will become a constant flamefest.

[Long Live #3]

Nicely put BillyGman! I couldn't have said it better myself!

[BillyGman]

Thanks BRO......

[bigslim]

Well it was nice meeting you Menace when you came to Detroit. Sorry to see you feel the way you do. I have to say that I have met quite a few good people due to this site. I hope it continues to be a first class site. Thanks to Logan.

[looking97233]

I missed "the thread" that started this. I have never met Logan or Mennace. I do know one thing though...

You do not accept an invation at a friends house only to show up and insult his other guests. It's just not acceptable. Especially guests that are paying the rent.

[Murader03]

LOGAN: Just keep doing what your doing. Not only is it your board to run as you see fit, but as a moderator, it's your responsibility to maintain the board as civil as possible. I left BON and CVN for just that reason. Everyone said and did as they pleased with little or no fear of action being taken against them. I enjoy this board immensely and contribute when I can.
If I were a problem "child" so to speak, I'd expect to he treated that way and told to clean up my act or else. The lack of responsibility in todays culture is running rampant.

Both you and LML due a tremendous job on this board, keep it up!

[studio460]

Well, I must've missed a few posts . . .

I dunno what all the fuss was about, but Logan DOES run a GREAT board! My other car friends (from real life) even commented how "civil" MM.net is compared to the others. But darn it, I'm going to miss Menace! Again, I DID NOT see any of the offending posts, so please don't flame me if Menace really was out of line (and apparently he must've been to get Logan that fired up!), but I even miss his now-expired supercharger countdown! Menace, stay or go, of course it's your choice (and Logan has left the door still half-open)--I'd like to see you work things out!

[Paul T. Casey]

Good natured ribbing is cool, to me anyway. (i.e. TAF's nephew, Logan exposed, Martyo's cookie recipe). Flaming is not. If you need to get beat up, without mentioning colors, shapes, or news, there are other sites to go to. After checking others, this is the place I go just for these reasons. Good job Logan, if someone doesn't like it here, just leave.

[Mad1]

Here's my well-thought out, carefully crafted position.

If I wanted to listen to people throwing what is basically opinion-driven venom back and forth, I'd simply spend more time with my GF's FOUR teenagers, who sometimes forget that civil behaviour makes it possible for people to tolerate each other in close proximity even if you disagree on certain subjects.

The forums here have always been a source of respectful commentary, even if it hasn't always been easy for those involved to hold a civil tounge. I appreciate being able to hear individual experiences and their respective opinions on certain aspects of the MM or its aftermarket potential.

A discussion of the relative pros and cons of certain systems versus another approach is certainly going to be a lightning rod that tempts some to cross the line between civil discourse and ideological diatribe. If the moderator feels a subject will bring undo strife to the boards because of a topic, it is certainly their right to step in.

There is no such thing as unfettered free speech, unless you own the press. (I know from a decade-plus of experience as a working journalist.) In other words, you have to put your money where your mouth is if you want to be in charge. Even I can't just put whatever I want into the public record, on my publisher's dime, without his ultimate approval or I'd be gone in a heartbeat.

I'll keep reading and asking for help here, as long as it reflects the kind of community that I want to be associated with. (That's another wonderful right we have in this country.)

Jeremy
Mad1

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Long Live #3
George is really wierd. No offence or anything, but he is weird. He thinks that he's a robot or something.


Now now. I don't want to fight George's battles, but until he has the chance to log on and answer this himself, I want to point out that George is really a great guy once you get to know him.

I met him on one of my business trips in the US a few months ago. He is kind of opinionated, very curious about things that's for sure. Always asking questions, and he won't take simple one sentence responses to any of his questions. No sir, he's definitely an inquisitive type, but that's what makes him who he is... that's what makes him George.

I didn't get to see his Marauder but the guy does have a varied range of interests. He's also a great drinking buddy. Lots of laughs once we've had a few.

Which reminds me, George if you're reading this, don't forget you're buying the next round.

[Macon Marauder]

Who's Menace?

Logan,
Rock on!

[Ross]

A board like this requires a moderator (and hopefully all of the participants) to walk a very fine line. On one hand, we want a free expression of facts, and even pure opinions. We know that one person's opinion, or his interpretation of facts, will be different from someone else's. That difference of opinion will sometime lead to personal animosity. Why should it? If , for example, I get a SC from Dennis and you get a SC from Trilogy, we should be happy that we each got what we wanted and are thrilled with our new toys. We should be free to openly discuss why I chose one and you chose the other, but what business do we have flamimg each other for our choices? A good example of what a board should be like is my recent thread asking for facts and opinions on competing exhaust systems. I received some replies with facts, some with opinions, and some with both. BUT, each reply was courteous and no one flamed anyone's product, nor anyone else's opinion. Logan didn't have to stay up late deleting posts or closing the thread because everyone did exactly what we all want to see here. Logan has a tough job deciding when someone has crossed the line. I haven't volunteered to take over his job for him, so as far as I'm concerned, he should keep doing exactly what he's been doing all along. Thanks for the board, Logan.

[ParkRanger]

Menace - suck it up and apologize like a man.
Logan - Accept it and continue your great job
Now, what were we all talking about?

PR

[AlabamaSS]

Originally posted by paheff
Being new to this site, one of the first things that I noticed (and whats kept me coming back) was that there is a real sense of community here. Everyone seems to conduct themselves in, for lack of a better word, an adult manner. Even disagreement is expressed in a respectful manner and I , for one, think you run this board rather well.


I agree 100% even if I am an outsider..HA! ;)

[dwasson]

Logan, I run a mailing list for another of my interests and I support you totally. As one of the readers who was alarmed (and messaged you about my alarm) I think that the utility of the Forum is diminished by the flaming and e-terrorism.

It's your ball Logan, you make the rules.

[#1MarauderFan]

Logan do not worry u r doing a great job with this place. I agree with everybody else when they say u have a hard job keeping this place a very pleasant site to come back everyday and it is the best place, by far, to find info on our cars. Everybody is great and nice. They all help everybody out when in need of some info. It's like a big family but unfortunately every big family has a few bad apples and there has to be somebody to take care of those bad apples before they stink up the place. Logan thanks for this great site. Sometimes those of us that do not understand stuff about motors, gears, etc. get caught up in the middle of a joke ( I should know about that one) but we r all adults and we have to understand or compromise before we do or say something stu#$d. Logan again keep up the good work and for those of u who deserve to be kicked off by Logan it must have been a very good reason!

[BillyGman]

took the words right off my keyboard! I was thinking that same thing about that thread that was about him asking for opinions about the two exhaust packages available for our cars(Kook's, and Reinhart's). Everyone gave their opinions and viewpoints in that thread, and many of us had opposing opinions. However, nobody flamed anyone or got cocky w/one another, nor did anyone of us write anything that was disrespectful to either one of the two vendors in question. Therefore LOGAN didn't have to delete or edit anyone's post. So if he has to edit or delete another post or thread, then I'm sure that he had good reason for doing so.

[Dr Caleb]

Sorry Menace, I like you, but you were dead wrong.

I saw those threads before they were resigned to the bit bucket. You most likely didn't mean to, but I could see them going south faster than a "what type of oil to use" thread. The only difference was they would have polarized some people towards one vendor or another.

Our vendors support the community through brow and skull sweat. We should support them with civility and our pocketbooks. Those threads would have unfairly compared some great, hardworking people. If you had wanted to compare technologies rather than comparing sponsors, I think the treads would have been cut anyway, as which supercharger is best has been done to death. ET slips have been posted, peoples opinions on install, fit and finish, overall seat of the pants feel, etc have all been posted for all to peruse. Now it's time for the pocketbook phase.

Do your research here, and decide with your wallet. My wallet decides for me. :)

I participate on several other boards. Some are great for information, some are great for discussion. One used to be great for both, but when the admin decided to let the community moderate themselves - pardon the expression - it turned into a crapfest.

I'm glad Logan keeps such a tight reign here. It makes the discussions friendly. It keeps the posting informative. It's what makes MM.net a 'community' rather than just another message board.

Free speech, as it is granted in the US Constitution and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms has limits. First and foremost is your speech cannot be hurtful towards others. Yelling "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater is not free speech. Second, while you have the right to your opinions and the right to express those opinions, you do not have the right to be heard.

This is Logans board. It isn't a Democracy, or a Constitutional Monarchy, or a Democratic Republic. It's a dictatorship. Our participation is at his sufferance. He could walk over to the server and hit the big red button, and all this would be gone.

Sorry Menace, I hope you stay around here. Like the old addage, "Do not pick a fight with a man who buys paper by the roll and ink by the barrell", don't tick off the guy with the "banned" button and the power switch.

And thank you Logan for this community you've built.

[MAD-3R]

Yeah!

[2003 MIB]

I hate to see anyone leave. I think this is a place to discuss and compare. It's also a community and Logan's property. I wouldn't visit his house and pee on the rug, yell at his kids or bring an attitude. I'm visiting here. I may pay my $20.00 a year to participate but I'm a guest- it's about manners.

[Marauderer]

I guess I missed the posts as well that are referred to at the beginning of this chain and cannot comment on what happened, so I won’t even try. But, I do want to say that this is a good board and it is seemingly very civil compared to some other boards which I have frequented. However, that is not to say that it doesn't have a couple things I personally wish were different.

One, while beneficial for obvious reasons, the editing of posts does not always inspire a warm and fuzzy, especially when you personally feel that the "edits" were either biased, unfair, or just plain did not take your side into consideration. People are people and anyone that has the power to edit posts on this site are not always going to do so in a perfectly fair and just manner, especially if they are a vendor and ultimately have their own interests in mind (even if they think they are doing so). In a way, it might just be better to delete the entire thread then to go back and try to rewrite it by cutting out key portions and then having somone’s lacky post a follow up that quotes just one paragraph of yours and proceeds to make you look like an ass. Believe me, have this done once to you personally and see how happy you are about it. Especially when there are a perceived few around here that seem to get away with things endlessly and the first time you break protocol you get an expulsion warning or told that you can just "Change the Channel" if you don't like it.

Two, I wish that many members on this site would rely a little more on themselves and their own abilities to conduct research then to devolve into mere idol worshipers. I don't care who or what it is but just because you like it or what they do doesn't make it or them a god or that every single thing they say is intelligent or correct. After all we are all human and no one is perfect. And yes, I think that there is one in particular dominating crowd here that is about the worst I have ever seen in this regard and unfortunately are among the most affluent posters on this site, but I have to say that it runs the gamut.

While there is nothing wrong with promoting something you believe in, members here do take it to a disgustingly mushy and spiritual extreme. I have to say as well that I belong to other boards where some of these same vendors post and they are none set atop pedestals the way they are here. I think it has something to do with the crowd in general. I haven’t nailed it down exactly, but it seems as though many on this site bought a car (namely the Marauder) to be the Hot Rod that they always wanted or to replace the one they had when they were younger without having to do any work to get it (it was just placed in our laps BTW – all we had to have was a good credit report). I think we also tend as a group to maybe in general have a little more cash, a little less time, and a little less hands on then maybe some of the other Ford product owners that I have seen. Maybe that is why so many people here are so easy to just plain follow then they are to reach out on their own and take the good things from all and come up with their own plan. If you think I am off base or just dead wrong, I ask you to go surf Crownvic.net or any other Panther platform site. You’ll see what I mean (there is a difference between “bought” performance and “built” performance. The guys on these sites tend to be a little more hands on, a little more experienced as far as working on cars go, a little more diverse, and a little more independent thinkers. It might also have to do with the all around newness of our cars and motor, but that has yet to be seen.

Third, and it goes hand in hand with point #2 is that I wish some people on this board would learn to leave well enough alone. There are some things that should be said in private and not in a public forum. Not everyone cares to hear your most intimate thoughts and opinions about anything and everything or to be preached to on a regular basis (I don’t feel my current post fits in this category as I am responding in kind to others’ comments and posts on a relevant subject). More importantly however, no one on this board has been elected the official “Guardian” or a member of the “Guardian Squadron” for any other person or vendor on this board. Now I have recently made these same comments to someone in private and know that I am not talking about you in this instance, this is just a general statement of behavior that I have seen countless times. What happens in this respect is that someone gets on here and makes a comment or asks a question and the “Knights in Shining Armor of the Paranoid Order” come out of the woodwork to defend something or someone that does not need defending! I for one have experienced this several times due to my fact finding nature and it is not pretty. No one wants to get on here and tap the minds at work on this site to be rerouted, put off, or pissed on because someone thinks their question is leading or baiting in some way. Experience this one the first time and then say something in return and see how you get treated (posts edited, talked about, baited in other forums, trounced upon or jabbed at, at every opportunity, then say something back (in public or in private) and get kicked off the site…..

In closing, I think Logan does a good job and probably has to deal with a ton of **** on a daily basis and makes his decisions using the information he has in front of him at the moment. It does not always however lend to a perceived fair and “perfect world” scenario for “everyone” involved, especially considering some of the personalities that are involved. Personally I would appreciate that sort of reasoning or explanation for some of the things that are done around here instead of the “change the channel” bit, but I’m not in the position of running the show here, all I can do is voice my opinion.

Like I said in the beginning of this post, this is a great site, but everyone should remember that the members, the car, and the obvious domain name are the major players involved in attracting people to this site in droves. Not taking anything away from Logan cause he has done a great job in setting this place up, funding it himself in its startup phase, and has put lots of useful and well thought out tools here for us to use, not to mention many, many hours of hard work, but like anything, all goods things come to and end if the proper balance is not maintained. My point here is that one man cannot do it himself and it is up to the good people on this site to help. You can’t misbehave and blame logan. You can’t get on here consistently and start trouble and blame logan. You can’t expect Logan to do the perfect and right thing (in your eyes) every single time. Just as well, you can’t get on here and act as “captain paranoid”, get away with it, and not expect it to catch up with you or with what you hold dear. You can’t get on here and post like a robot then disagree with any detractors based on feelings and not facts and not have it cause problems. You can’t get on here with too big an attitude in general because other people and personalities are involved (you are not the only one who matters). Nor can you participate in image tweaking, post editing, or revisionism and not expect people to hold it against you or your cause.

I just wish that more people would get on here and post items that inspire independent thought, debate, and knowledge sharing instead of the same ole crowd disguising their opinions as facts and collectively steering conversations and topics in the direction of their own personal agenda (or in the direction of their marching orders due to a complete lack of their own agenda or thoughts) as well as practice what they preach when they are telling everyone else what they should or shouldn’t do. I sincerely hope that people read this and can see another side to some of the things that happen here and not be so quick to jump on others that you “think” are behaving badly. Not everything is as it seems and there are ALWAYS two sides to every story.. There is also the cumulative affect of frustration and stress that takes a toll on an individual and causes them to do or say things they wouldn’t under normal circumstances, believe me, been there, done that. All anyone can really do is apologize and try to put it behind them and hope that the effort is reciprocated.

I’m not trying to preach to any of you. I just have relevant experience and thoughts that I wanted to share. Please don’t flame, if you want to take me to task for something I said, chat, or debate, feel free to call me anytime at 952.334.5096.

- Bill

[2003 MIB]

Wow Bill- I wish I'd said that. Very insightful. Thanks.

[studio460]

Oh yeah, Marauderer? Why don'tcha tell us what you REALLY think!

Boy, that was one heck of a post! Well written, honest, and even funny. Actually very funny. I especially like the "Knights in Shining Armor of the Paranoid Order" comment. Caleb's post was pretty funny too!

I agree with many of your points as well. When I first joined, I was full of questions. Now, I do try to make a conscious effort to contribute some new information when I can find it, or at least try to post something of benefit once in awhile as a donation in-kind for all the help I've received from the board.

But anyway . . . I mean what a great board . . . what other board on the PLANET would have a discussion thread THIS LONG, and THIS THOUGHT-PROVOKING about someone LEAVING the site?

[Dr Caleb]

Well put Bill!

One thing i wanted to add to my post, that you touch on:

This is a forum of the written word. It's tough to gauge a person's mood or meaning for several different reasons. The person may not be able articulate in words well enough to communicate to the reader the authors intentions and context. Some writers are better at communicating thoughts, ideas and emotions better than others. As well, the reader may not be able to draw out the meaning the author intended.

I've seen some of the activity you refer to, but never experienced it myself. I've even read over some of the threads and been totally confused as to where hostility and 'group think' has crept into this forum. Perhaps it's because the afformentioned threads had ethier dissappeared, or the posts' meanings had been changed due to editing. I know some people such as Bill or Menace have felt opressed because of this, but I personally have never experienced this.

I like to believe that everyone here has the same goals - to better the Mercury Marauder to fit into our ideal mold of what we want from this car. Going foreward, I'd like to suggest to everyone that people are by nature individuals without malice. No one seeks out confrontation on purpose. To assume that someone here is intending to be confrontational would be wrong. I believe some people have strong opinions on certain subjects. I also believe that everyone has that right. I'll decide what's best for me in the long run, and then we can all just have a beer.

[NickLee]

Great board, love the site, visit it everyday, keep up the great job Logan.

[gonzo50]

Originally posted by Petrograde
I never really looked at forums of any kind before MM.net.

I like the feeling of community here, the camaraderie. Our own little society, .. for any society to run smoothly and effectively you gotta have rules! We are all adults here.

Thank you Logan and LML for providing us a useful forum.

Tom
Logan is running and maintaining an outstanding site here and it's very simple, if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.

I agree with Logan 110%, this is his house and you must comply with the rules he establishes or else.... he shouldn't have to tolerate anyone who doesn't care about the rules on this forum/site Period.

Continue doing what you do best Logan and thats Moderate. Thanks for an awesome site. :up:

[Jerry Barnes]

Wow, I must have really missed out on something.

I do not have time to give you all of my thoughts at this time, but I want to make some very brief comments and when I have time I will give you my 2 cents!

Logan, you are doing a great job, please keep up the good work! I am sure none of us want your job! Or for that matter, none of us could do it as well! I personnaly spoke to Logan about this topic in Texas and asked him to keep up the good work. I have felt at times like I was on the receiving end of some bashing and did not understand, why? Logan has always been professional in keeping us all together, it's a very tough job.

Menace, you are a great friend and customer! Please do not let a disagreement or misunderstanding cause you to leave. We enjoy your comments AND opinions. There are several ways to express a strong opinion, let's explore those options.

As for Dennis Reinhart and Kenny Brown, they are great competitors and I have a hugh amount of respect for what they have accomplished. I am privileged to be in their company. Dennis has always treated me fairly and with friendship. He has a great product and has done a great deal for the Marauder owners. All of us should remember competition is healthy!

This will always be my home site and I really enjoy the people that I have met. It's a tough thing keeping this many people together in a constructive manner and we all have a responsibility to work to make it happen. I say we keep working hard at it!

Oh, and Logan, can we have spell checker?

Have a good one!

[Dr Caleb]

Just as a little background, and without getting into details about the beginning to this whole thing, for everyone's benefit:

A thread was started wondering who had the best 'vision' towards horsepower for the Marauder.

Now, when I read it, it appeared to be worded like as if it were "Marauder vs Impala" or a "5w20 vs 5w30 synthetic vs Warranty" thread. I don't think it was intended that way, more along the lines of a general information thread, like the Kooks exhaust thread, but because it was short, the intention may not be clear to some and I could tell it would only lead to polarization in the thread. The bad part was it was asking for direct comparisons between two of the sites vendors.

This could only lead to vendor bashing. Not good. I gave it 10 minutes before Logan deleted it. And it took about that long.

The thread was posted again an hour or two later, but this time with a few extra comments directed at our glorious benefactor :bows:, and not clairifying the intent of the original thread. Again, not good.

Perhaps Menace didn't intend to have those threads appear the way they did. As I said above, I don't assume anyone has malicious intentions. But the long and short of it was, the way the threads were worded (especially the second) they were a troll.

Sorry Menace, but they were.

[tetsu]

Online you always run into people who give into the temptation to just let their thoughts spill out onto the keyboard. It's too bad that Rick doesn't see that that is a failing on his part and not Logan's and just apologize. I personally prefer a small amount of flaming to be acceptable on a board, but I understand the desire to have none of it.

I, for one, had my doubts when Logan started this site. He has shown me wrong and nurtured this into a truly stupendous resource for us....esspecially given the severely small population that we MM enthusiasts actually are.

I think it's great that there are so many cool vendors here. I look forward to the elapse of my warranty so that I can partake fully of one or more of them! :)

Have a great weekend everyone...Rick too. :)

Johnny

[Petrograde]

Wow! 63 posts and over 1800 hits in less than 24 hours!

[drobin]

Logan,

Without your loyal support and dedication to this site, driving our MM's wouldn't be the same. Great car and a great site for the privileged who respect the dignity of others. As long as your here, I'm here!

Donald
"drobin"

[MMManic]

Logan, you're on the right track with this forum. I don't talk much here but I enjoy reading all the threads and learning so much about the best car on the road. Keep doing what you're doing and THANKS!

[BigMerc]

Well I initially I didn't agree with the strict moderation, I agree with it now, the reason is, go look at BlueOvalNews there is a poster "sheriff" there and he ruins the whole board, he insults everyone and just makes it a bad place to look for information and a bad place to be.(he is p74vic here) he just does not try any crap here.
I was there one day and saw what it was and left, have not been back since. So be thankful we have an active moderator. RCsignals can tell you how bad it is over there. I get useful information here and would not trade it. Besides Logan will give you some shutup messages before he gets angry, just try to keep it to 3 shut ups every6-8 months or so.

[Bigdogjim]

Originally posted by Jerry Barnes
Wow, I must have really missed out on something.


Oh, and Logan, can we have spell checker?

Have a good one!


Well Logan can I hijack the thread now:) :help:

[mad man]

get over it. Bye

[Billatpro]

Wow, Bill did you get a few finger cramps on that post? I can't even write that many words much less typ'em.

There does seem to be a lot of "Clicks" here but then again that always happens among a large group but does tend to "chill" the desire to post. I have largely kept my opinions to my self in fear of offending the " knights of the realm"

It would seem that if one is not in a central/southeren/eastern area then your not part of the larger group and should your opinion stray from larger group "hold on to your nickers" now remember this all "Perception" and it's my perception, which lead to MY opinion.

I have come here less and less often and if I were "Booted" believe me I could learn to live without it but I like this place most of the time and the owner does a good job and deserves much credit for the sites creation and maintenance, sure wish he would get a darn speel checker though!

[merc406]

Interesting Billatpro, I wondered where you were, how was the racing season for you all?

[O's Fan Rich]

told me to read this. I did. I cannot add a thing.

[Logan]

There's waaaaaaaaaaay to much stuff for me to reply to on this thread, but in summary, thanks for your support.

I needed to make sure I wasn't missing some grand consensus that folks didn't want the level of moderation being applied.

Part of the reason the forum continues to grow and get new features added is because I genuinely enjoy the work. The reason I'm quick to eliminate folks who cause me grief with my button is that they take ALL the enjoyment out of the work and replace it with utter misery. I just don't put up with childish crap unless you're paying me my $175/hr to do it.

I figure there are more than enough un-moderated forums on the next for folks to flame each other at, I personally don't want this to be one of them.

Again, thanks for the support.

As for Menace, like I said, it's not personal, I just don't have time for bull. If he was to re-register under another name/email address, with a new attitude, that's fine by me. I'm not on a witch hunt, I just want bliss and harmony to reign supreme.

Note, this thread has been spell-checked by your friendly neighborhood spell checker

[Billatpro]

Originally posted by merc406
Interesting Billatpro, I wondered where you were, how was the racing season for you all?

Well, the season is not over yet, running next week at Vegas and then the world finals, may have big news for our team by then.

Thanks for asking

This reply spell checked "it's so cool"

[Slowpoke]

this is Logan's playground and he gets to make the rules.

period.

I have crossed the INVISIBLE LINE OF CIVILITY on occasion and he has taken quick and fair action by closing a thread or by sending me an PM.

I expect that the next time [YOU CAN BET THERE WILL BE A NEXT TIME FOR ME] I cross the "invisible line of civility" Logan will stop me in my tracks,

[studio460]

LOGAN!!! A NEW spell checker!?!?!? You are THE MAN!!! THANKS LOGAN!!!

[kurly]

I'm for civility and decorum!

This is my favorite website and the best part of my day, and I enjoy the good natured caMARAUDERie and exchange of ideas.

Thanks Logan! You duh MAN! :)

[Long Live #3]

Hey Logan, Isn't it nice to be loved by everyone here on the forum?

[BigMerc]

Hey Logan, Isn't it nice to be loved by everyone here on the forum?


__________________
well.................. except for menace

[piglet]

Ladies and Gents,

I can't believe I wasted the past 15 minutes reading this thread. Life is entirely to short to waste both brain cells and bandwidth on that douche. Logan is the boss man, any more questions?

A little display of good order and discipline every now and then is good for the sole. Thanks to Logan for our latest dose.

Pig

PS

I kept my Marauder and have a whopping 8K on the clock in the past year, although half of that year I was on extended vacation visiting with Saddam and the boys................

I am back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Petrograde]

Welcome Back Piglet!!! I got back from Kuwait in June. That place truly sucks!!!! Glad your home!!

[Logan]

Welcome back piglet! It's been too long!!

[vaderv]

I find personally that the owner of this site applies one set of rules for certain people and quite another for others. This is what makes some people lash out. In other words a certain opinion from one person is ok the same opinion from someone else is not. When the latter give said "unwanted" opinion he or she is met with what I would consider a childish scolding that sometimes borders on "fighting words". These admonishments I know would never be said by the administrators and owner to anyones face. But that's the internet, the great shield. My honest opinion. But then I personally like debate...

[kurly]

I kept my Marauder and have a whopping 8K on the clock in the past year, although half of that year I was on extended vacation visiting with Saddam and the boys................

I am back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/B][/QUOTE]
______________________________ _____________________

Hey Piglet and Petrograde,

I don't know if this is the right thread to do this (Logan's moment!) . . . but, as an old veteran of 26 months in Vietnam, I am very proud of your service, as well as all the other young men and women who fought for our country's liberty, safety and security in Afghanistan and Iraq. No politics - just a heartfelt thanks!

[Logan]

Vader, It's often the tone or intent that someone delivers their opinion with that determines my response. Yes, I treat some people differently than others, some get favored, absolutely. Why? Because I know and trust their opinions.

As well as if I personally agree with a particular scorching sentiment, I'm alot less likely to edit or remove it. So my personal agenda is often weighed in as well. That's the honest truth. People don't have to like it, but that's the way it is.

On the other hand, sometimes I just plain miss a thread or comment altogether and get blamed for it.

As for my admonishments, I have absolutely NO problems repeating anything I say online to you, menace or anyone else in person or on the phone, and have done just that with a few folks who got turfed wanted to get on the phone with me.

Ultimately, it boils down to this. If ya don't like it, change the channel. Some people just leave quietly, some leave like drama queens, most end up apologizing or slip back onto the site with a new username and a different attitude.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't, so I usually choose not to give a crap if an individual isn't all that happy with how I run things.

As for this thread, I think it's run it's course.

See? Another wunderbar, I always get the last word... How unfair is that?! :P