Promlem # 3 - Wierd stuff

[wrc7732]

Okay, so I'm still working on getting this thing going with the Cobra Eaton Swap. She runs now, but I still haven't driven it due to the issues stated below.

The alternator still seems to be an issue but it seems to be generating voltage, so I think it's more of a 'how to fix the dummy light' issue and not so much a driveablilty issue. So I'll worry about that when we get it going.

It's doing some funky things though. It fires no problem, but then proceeds to rev to about 4,000 rpm for about 3 - 4 seconds before dropping back down to idle, and it does this when you rev it back up from idle also. Also, I'm getting an incredible amount of suction from the port on the back of the supercharger. So much so, that it's actually imploding the PCV hose that runs off of it and into the drivers side valve cover. There is also and odd humming noise that I can't seems to pinpoint, along with a hissing that sounds like a vaccuum leak that I can't find either. The humming starts as the car warms up a little more and sounds like one of those neon colored, corrugated, plastic pipes that kids twirl around their heads. Know what I'm talking about??? When I turn the car off it changes in tone and stops after a few seconds, and sounds like the pressure is being let out of the system.

I'm wondering if all the vaccuum lines are hooked up like they are supposed to be or if we have the wrong ones going to the wrong places on the boost bypass and whatever else is on the side of the supercharger.

Anyone have any theories, or suggestions of what to look at next.

Thanks,

Will

[MM_BKK]

Do you have a tune installed for your new set up?

You now have different size injectors and MAF (if they're from the Cobra donor) so that will throw your stock tune way off.
Also double check all your vacuum lines routing. The vacuum routing on the side of stock Cobra blower (a.k.a. Rat's nest) is a nightmare to trace and figure out. Just do away with it. You only need to worry about the boost bypass valve by itself which will need vacuum/boost for reference. Also, what did you do with the EGR set up?

Need to post up some pictures and videos so we know what you're talking about.

[Glenn]

Based on my experience with the Trilogy SC and my K&N CAI PVC hose location experience, I would say most of your issues are PVC plumbing. Try using PVC search for details. But, the location of your PVC hose on the CAI is critical and will cause several of your problems. What type of CAI are you using?

Glenn :burnout:

[wrc7732]

The tune is a chip that is set up for a stock Marauder but with a higher RPM lockup for the torque converter and adjusted for the 4:10 gears. I just need to get it driving well enough that I can take it to the dyno shop for a custom tune.

I hear you about the rats nest. I'll look into removing most of it if possible.

The EGR is not there at all. The guy who sold us the Cobra stuff had a block off plate on the back of the supercharger so I just left it and plugged the end of the pipe coming from the exhaust. See any issues with doing this?? Do I need to find a Cobra EGR and wire harness and exhaust pipe for it??


I have the PVC set up the same as on my 03 Cobra. out of the bottom of the intake and into the back of the supercharger with a T hose going to the Drivers side PCV (this is the hose that is imploding). The passenger side one goes from the valve cover directly into the stock Cobra intake. The only mod to the intake is a large cone filter in place of the Cobra air box.

I'll check out the vacuum lines for leaks. Any thoughts on where to start?? Which port on the supercharger do I use for the Boost/Vaccum reference for the Boost Bypass Solenoid and the Fuel Pressure Regulator and also a boost/vacuum guage?? There seems to be 3 ports on the back of the supercharger. 1 large one connected to the bottom of the intake and the driverside PCV, 1 lower one with 2 red hoses coming out of it, and 1 upper one with 2 red hoses coming out of it.

[MM_BKK]

If you have the new PCV valve on the driver side plus the stock one on the pass. side, you won't have crankcase ventilation and that's why your hose collapsed.
You need to remove the pass. side PCV valve and just have straight breather going to the cold air tube before the throttleblade.

Any vacuum ports on the blower discharge plate will have vacuum/boost reference.

You won't need to do anything else with the EGR since it plugged off, but you will need to have your tuner disable it in the tune.

[wrc7732]

So can I just switch the PCV fittings over?? Passenger to driver and driver to passenger?? This should correct the flow, correct?? I just have the stock Marauder fittings in place. That makes sense what you said though. Sounds like I'm attempting to pull through a valve that is designed to only go one way. Makes perfect sense why the hose collapsed. I guess I shouldv'e paid closer attention to how it was ran on the stock Marauder intake.

What do you mean by 'blower discharge plate'?? Does that mean both ports on the back of the blower will have vacuum/boost reference??

I'll definately be sure to ask the tuner to turn of the EGR. Do you have any suggestions as to how I would go about removing the hard exhaust line that runs out of the manifold and up to where the stock EGR was?? It's very much in my way, not plugged particularly well, and I would like to remove it altogether. It seems as though the steering shaft is in the way and I haven't been able to get a wrench on it. Do I have to remove the manifold from head and h-pipe to get on it??

[martyo]

Trailer the car to MPH in Cartersville. Speak to my brother Jeff (Shankin here) and he will sort it out for you and tune it while he is at it.

[MM_BKK]

I would take the advice from martyo, otherwise we could be going back and forth here for the next 2 weeks with Problem #20 - You name it.

[in2deep]

The only 3 things that need boost/vacuum are:
FRPS
Boost Gauge
Bypass valve.

Scrap everything else.

Put breathers on the valve covers and eliminate all your issues.

[wrc7732]

As nice as it would be to just drop it off with someone and say "here you go, fix it", I'm afraid that is missing the whole point of the exercise. If we wanted to do that we could've just dropped $6000 on a trilogy kit and paid someone an arm and a leg to install it. As it stands today we're looking at $4,000 in parts and $500 to get it tuned once it's up and running like it should. We chose this route for multiple reasons. Cost is obviously one of them. It's a challenge to make it work on your own without all the custom (said expensive) parts that make so that everything bolts right up, and we like to work on our own cars. There's a snse of pride that you have when you can say that I did it myself, and I didn't have to take it to someone who did it for me. That's why there's so many folks around these days, stuck between a rock and a hard place because they need things done, can't afford to pay someone (without putting it on a credit card), and don't know how to do it or figure out how to do it by themselves.

I very much appreciate all of your suggestions, posts, comments, links, advice, etc. And that's why I love these sites. It's a place where we car nuts can join forces and take down one crazy car project at a time. If I'm still on here 2 weeks from now posting problem #20 then so be it, and if no one wants to help anymore then so be it. But I'll figure it out. I always do, eventually. And it's always a learning experience. Sometimes it ends up costing more in time or broken stuff than it would've to done to have taken it somewhere, but at the end of the day it was my accomplishment, my blood sweat and tears, that got the job done. And that's something that I am always proud of.

I'll admit that this is probably one of the more challenging projects that I've taken on, mainly because of all the computer stuff, sensors, etc. But she fired first time and that's a lot more than I can say for some of the less complex tasks I have taken on.

Sorry for jumping up on the soap box. It's just that everytime I post anything these days, with my newly acquired Cobra especially, everyone says that I need to take it to a shop and have them look at it. First off, I don't have the kind of funds to lay down $100+ an hour to throw it on a dyno and check the tune every 5 minutes, and I can't imagine that many people really do. Secondly this is my hobby. It's what I enjoy. If I wanted to drop it off at the shop everytime something went wrong, I'd have to get a 2nd boring job just to pay for it. And that wouldn't be any fun at all.

Thanks again for all of your help. I'll be sure to post up some pictures and some numbers as soon as I get her tuned/cleaned up, and we can all be happy knowing that it was just a regular jo and family (MM.net folks included here) that made it all happen. And we can all be proud together.

Well that's my .02 cents. I'm sure something else will come up, so I'll talk to you all again soon.

Will

[wrc7732]

The only 3 things that need boost/vacuum are:
FRPS
Boost Gauge
Bypass valve.

Scrap everything else.

Put breathers on the valve covers and eliminate all your issues.

Thanks. I'll look at that. If I do choose to go the breather route and scrap the PCV stuff, what do I do with the hose running from the bottom of the intake?? Just run it directly inot the back of the supercharger, or just cap off the hose and the port??

[martyo]

As nice as it would be to just drop it off with someone and say "here you go, fix it", I'm afraid that is missing the whole point of the exercise. If we wanted to do that we could've just dropped $6000 on a trilogy kit and paid someone an arm and a leg to install it. As it stands today we're looking at $4,000 in parts and $500 to get it tuned once it's up and running like it should. We chose this route for multiple reasons. Cost is obviously one of them. It's a challenge to make it work on your own without all the custom (said expensive) parts that make so that everything bolts right up, and we like to work on our own cars. There's a snse of pride that you have when you can say that I did it myself, and I didn't have to take it to someone who did it for me. That's why there's so many folks around these days, stuck between a rock and a hard place because they need things done, can't afford to pay someone (without putting it on a credit card), and don't know how to do it or figure out how to do it by themselves.

I very much appreciate all of your suggestions, posts, comments, links, advice, etc. And that's why I love these sites. It's a place where we car nuts can join forces and take down one crazy car project at a time. If I'm still on here 2 weeks from now posting problem #20 then so be it, and if no one wants to help anymore then so be it. But I'll figure it out. I always do, eventually. And it's always a learning experience. Sometimes it ends up costing more in time or broken stuff than it would've to done to have taken it somewhere, but at the end of the day it was my accomplishment, my blood sweat and tears, that got the job done. And that's something that I am always proud of.

I'll admit that this is probably one of the more challenging projects that I've taken on, mainly because of all the computer stuff, sensors, etc. But she fired first time and that's a lot more than I can say for some of the less complex tasks I have taken on.

Sorry for jumping up on the soap box. It's just that everytime I post anything these days, with my newly acquired Cobra especially, everyone says that I need to take it to a shop and have them look at it. First off, I don't have the kind of funds to lay down $100+ an hour to throw it on a dyno and check the tune every 5 minutes, and I can't imagine that many people really do. Secondly this is my hobby. It's what I enjoy. If I wanted to drop it off at the shop everytime something went wrong, I'd have to get a 2nd boring job just to pay for it. And that wouldn't be any fun at all.

Thanks again for all of your help. I'll be sure to post up some pictures and some numbers as soon as I get her tuned/cleaned up, and we can all be happy knowing that it was just a regular jo and family (MM.net folks included here) that made it all happen. And we can all be proud together.

Well that's my .02 cents. I'm sure something else will come up, so I'll talk to you all again soon.

Will

I understand what you are saying but it is not like you are dealing with an out of the box carb'd Target motor or something. So if you have to spend 500 or 600 bucks to keep from bruning up a motor, I say DO IT.

In the end you are going to have it tubed anyway, no?

[in2deep]

Thanks. I'll look at that. If I do choose to go the breather route and scrap the PCV stuff, what do I do with the hose running from the bottom of the intake?? Just run it directly inot the back of the supercharger, or just cap off the hose and the port??

That hose is like a vacuum cleaner for oil to be sucked into the intake. LOSE IT!

You need the plenum vacuum for brakes and interior stuff.
You need the boost port (bottom passenger side) for FRPS, Boost gauge and bypass valve.
The upper vacuum port on the Bypass valve is not used, but dont cap it off. Let it just be as-is. The bottom port on the bypass needs the vacuum/boost hook up.

[Marauderjack]

I would keep your PCV system intact unless you plan to change you oil monthly!!!:shake:

Simply "gut" the OEM PCV valve....easily done (PM me if you can't figger it out) and that will become the air inlet to the crank case!!:beer: Connect the hose to it to any filtered air connection that won't be pressurized.....mine is after the MAF and in front of the blower!!;)

Now get yourself an EV-111 Ford PVC valve that is set up to close completely when it sees pressure to prevent pressurizing the CC......and run the hose around to where the OEM PCV hooked up at the intake and you'll be good to go!!:D

Your PCV system serves a vital function in keeping the oil clean of harmful "TOXINS" and should never be eliminated in a street car!!:shake:

Good Luck!!:beer:

[wrc7732]

I understand what you are saying but it is not like you are dealing with an out of the box carb'd Target motor or something. So if you have to spend 500 or 600 bucks to keep from bruning up a motor, I say DO IT.

In the end you are going to have it tubed anyway, no?

By "tubed" I'm guessing you mean cut up the trunk floor so some monster slicks will fit back there right?? Not so sure about that one, althought now you've got me thinking about wider tires. hhmmmmm.....:burnout:

[MM_BKK]

Your PCV system serves a vital function in keeping the oil clean of harmful "TOXINS" and should never be eliminated in a street car!!

+1!

I would never run "breather" on a street car. If your engine has ANY blow-by (most engine have some) when you're using your HVAC other than MAX function, you'll be sucking in that blow-by from the engine compartment into the car's interior and it doesn't smell like roses. Already been there, done that.

[in2deep]

+1!

I would never run "breather" on a street car. If your engine has ANY blow-by (most engine have some) when you're using your HVAC other than MAX function, you'll be sucking in that blow-by from the engine compartment into the car's interior and it doesn't smell like roses. Already been there, done that.

I dont know about you, but the smell of toxins puts a smile on my face. :beer:

[wrc7732]

I've ordered the EV-111 PCV valve from Tousley Ford this evening. Hopefully it'll be here by the weekend. For now, I've swapped the PCV fittings from one side to the other. This has seems to have fixed my collapsing hose issue and also the howling and hissing is gone. Amazing what trouble these PCV systems are capable of causing in these newer cars. In my old vette, it doesn't seem to care which side you put it on, nor does it care what type of fitting you use. It'll still leak oil out form around the fittings. On the MM they are all o-ring sealed and screwed down and everything. Very schnazzy.

All seems to be well for now. Still have to see if it'll drive. Although as MM_BBK stated in one of my other threads, the alternator seems to remain a problem. I'm not sure that it's engaging and charging the battery.

On a different note. Anyone have a good idea for what switched ignition source to use for the Intercooler pump relay?? Is there one that is only live when the engine is actually running?? Or would you recommend that I use one that is live whenever the key is on?? What have you all done for this?? I have everything for the IC system mounted and plumbed, now I just need to juice it up.

[martyo]

By "tubed" I'm guessing you mean cut up the trunk floor so some monster slicks will fit back there right?? Not so sure about that one, althought now you've got me thinking about wider tires. hhmmmmm.....:burnout:

I meant to say "tuned" -- reread the post with that word and see what you think.

Sorry for the confusion!

[wrc7732]

Yes of course I'll be getting a tune. Just don't want to get on the dyno until everything is working like it should. Dyno hours are expensive and it is no place to be diagnosing silly issues that should have been fixed prior to arriving at the shop. Been burned like this before with stuff not working right when I arrive. Once you're strapped to the dyno it's too late.

[MM_BKK]

I dont know about you, but the smell of toxins puts a smile on my face. :beer:

Rightttt, you like the smell of roses, don't you? ;)

[justbob]

To remove the egr tube you will need a small bottle of mapp gas, carefull hands, wd40, and a 1 1/8 cut down wrench with a cheater bar through the drivers side wheel well. Have fun.

My I/C is ran off the key, my relay is mounted right near the battery and tapped into the fuse block. Do you need a relay #? Pm me and i'll look it up.

[wrc7732]

To remove the egr tube you will need a small bottle of mapp gas, carefull hands, wd40, and a 1 1/8 cut down wrench with a cheater bar through the drivers side wheel well. Have fun.

My I/C is ran off the key, my relay is mounted right near the battery and tapped into the fuse block. Do you need a relay #? Pm me and i'll look it up.

Boy that sounds like fun. Is it easier just to remove the manifold. Certainly sounds like it, although I haven't looked that closely at what may be in the way.

I already have a Bosch relay that came with from the guy we bought the Eaton setup from.

When you say that you ran it off the key, where did you tap into it. Is there a wire under the hood?? Did you run a wire directly off the key signal wire on the starter??

What size fuse and gauge wire should I use for the main feed for the I/C pump?? I was thinking a 30 amp and 14 or 16 gauge wire.

Thoughts??

[justbob]

Give me a minute, i'll check.

[justbob]

The egr tube is mor of a patience thing, or you could cut it off and just use a socket.

The relay (in the relay/fuse box) that you need to tap into is #301 (access from the bottom)

the wire from your fuse holder t-taps into the brown/orange wire
the wire from your relay t-taps into the white/purple wire

My car is actually sitting outside at the neighbors house because I had a new driveway installed today. I will check in the daylight tomorrow for you on the correct size fuse and wire guage. Hope this helps.

[wrc7732]

The egr tube is mor of a patience thing, or you could cut it off and just use a socket.

The relay (in the relay/fuse box) that you need to tap into is #301 (access from the bottom)

the wire from your fuse holder t-taps into the brown/orange wire
the wire from your relay t-taps into the white/purple wire

My car is actually sitting outside at the neighbors house because I had a new driveway installed today. I will check in the daylight tomorrow for you on the correct size fuse and wire guage. Hope this helps.


Helps a bunch, thanks.

I like the just cut it off and use a socket idea. Sounds much easier to me. Assuming I can get a socket on there.

When you say that my fuse holder should tap into the brown/orange wire, is that to actually feed power to the relay to run the pump?? Should I not just runa wire right off the lug at the front of the fuse box?? Of is the feed from the wire you mentioned sufficient??

I'm guessing the white/purple wire is my ignition on wire??

[MM_BKK]

You need to soak that EGR nut with liquid wrench for at least a day before to even attempt to tackle it. Taking off the steering wheel shaft linkage is very easy, you will be surprise. It might even be easier to take the front wheel off and go through the fenderwell.

As for the switch 12V source, if I remember correctly, there was a wire on the old EGR harness that provided switched 12V power. I think it was one of the thicker wire on that harness but I don't remember the color and I'm at work now and the car is home.

[wrc7732]

You need to soak that EGR nut with liquid wrench for at least a day before to even attempt to tackle it. Taking off the steering wheel shaft linkage is very easy, you will be surprise. It might even be easier to take the front wheel off and go through the fenderwell.

As for the switch 12V source, if I remember correctly, there was a wire on the old EGR harness that provided switched 12V power. I think it was one of the thicker wire on that harness but I don't remember the color and I'm at work now and the car is home.

I'll try the steering shaft route first. If I have to take the wheel off I can try that too. And I'll definatley be hitting it with some spray before I take a wrench to it. Rounded off one too many frozen exhaust fittings in my lifetime.

I was thinking that the EGR ought to have some kind of switched poer going to it also. No need to look for me, I'll stick a voltmeter on itr and figure it out later. Although, if the idea from one of the earlier posts is correct about which one to tap into in the fuse panel, this will save me having to run any more wire across the back of the engine compartment.

[justbob]

Helps a bunch, thanks.

I like the just cut it off and use a socket idea. Sounds much easier to me. Assuming I can get a socket on there.

When you say that my fuse holder should tap into the brown/orange wire, is that to actually feed power to the relay to run the pump?? Should I not just runa wire right off the lug at the front of the fuse box?? Of is the feed from the wire you mentioned sufficient??
Yes, the br/orange wire feeds the fuse, then out of the fuse to the relay(leg 30), and then to the I/C. Going in thru the bottom of the fuse box is the cleanest way to run it and its quite easy.
I'm guessing the white/purple wire is my ignition on wire??
Yes again, wh/purp, goes to the relay for power up (leg 86).
Leg 85 - ground
leg 87 - to the I/C


The two wires going into the fuse box are only 14 - 16 guage (looks to be 16) and the fuse is only a 10.

[wrc7732]

Decided to go with the 301 relay for a swithced source for the relay and ran te direct feed line right off the power input to the fuse panel. I'm going to run an inline fuse on this so that I'm not potentially overloading any of the exsisting circuits.

I had alot of fun getting the EGR tube off, but it came off in the end. My dad actually helped out by breaking it loose while I was working on the I/C pump wiring. I then just spent about 30 minutes with an 8" adjustable wrench about 1/16th of a turn at a time. Anyway, it's off and capped. So all in all a pretty successful evening.

Now just waiting on my new regulator and pigtail for the alternator and Then she should be ready for tuning.

Getting excited now. Almost time to see how well the 4.10's light em up with the added assistance. On the bright side, the tires are on the way out anyway so there won't be any reservations about roasting them.