Thinking of New Tires

[Ross]

I have 22K on my MM, and I will need tires in another few thousand miles. I could go with OEM, but I would like to consider my options. I will not be racing at the track, except maybe once or twice a year (if I'm lucky). The car is my daily driver, a lot of city driving and a lot of road trips in Texas. I don't normally corner aggressively, but I'd like good grip when I have to occassionally. I don't go WOT all the time, but I sometimes have some fun so I need something speed rated. I've heard talk of "soft" tires vs. "hard" tires. How do I know which is which? Is there something which tells you the degree of hardness in a tire? What are the advantages/disadvantages of both? I'd like tires which tend to last awhile, since I put a lot of miles on this car. Oh, yeah, call me an old redneck, but I'd prefer American made. The choice of tires used to be a lot easier before I had my first muscle car!

[Ray Snyder]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ross
[B]I have 22K on my MM, and I will need tires in another few thousand miles.

Just bought rears for mine. Discount tire on 1960, just west of 249, have a couple of extra rears in stock as they ordered 4 instead of the 2, I needed. They charged $109 ea. Now I need the fronts done, 16,000 miles and the inside edge is shot. I don't know how you made yours last so long....

[LincMercLover]

Tire hardness is usually related to the treadwear number. The higher the number, the longer they last.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by LincMercLover
Tire hardness is usually related to the treadwear number. The higher the number, the longer they last.

I agree, a "soft" compound will wear sooner, but it will provide more road grip. "Harder" tires live longer, but do not stick as well in cornering, rain, or aggressive starts.

I've owned both, the BFGs that come OEM, and the Pirellis that come OEM from Kenny Brown. I will be replacing them after the turn of the year because they have met their 50% use rate, something y'all should think about. Don't drive ANY tire past it's 50% wear mark, IMHO.

I've driven the Priellis under conditions I would never try with the OEM BFGs, no matter how new they are. The Pirellis are also very pricey (in comparasion), but I love the way they ride and grip. Just my preferrence here, I know it seems a waste of money to many of y'all, but you have to drive them to know what I'm speaking about. Expensive, yes. Wear fast, yes. Drive safe? Better than any other tire out here.

Y'all have to find your own balance between cost and performance, and I may be at the extreme end here, but I'll be driving on Pirellis from now on. Anytime we get together face to face, just ask me for a test drive, you'll get it...Just my .02c.

[Murader03]

Drats! I could'a tested them at Hershey.......

[Petrograde]

Thanks Sarge! What kind of Pirelli's? so I can do some pricing..

Tom

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by Petrograde
What kind of Pirelli's? so I can do some pricing. Tom

Pirelli P-Zero Assymetrico

Front: 255/45/ZR18
Rear: 255/50/ZR18

Different tire sizes keep the OEM rake in place, but the car is lower to the ground. Front fender lip is 28" off the ground, rear is 281/2".

Pirelli says ideal PSI is 36 pounds, for premium wear. Kenny Brown says ideal PSI is 32 pounds, for premium stick. I run 40 PSI all four corners for highway driving, and bring the rears down to 25 PSI for the 1320.

I'm getting the same wear patttern on the inside front as I did with the BFGs, the inside tread wears sooner. I don't know for sure, but it occurs to me that our 50mm wheel offset may cause this wear. I've given up trying to reason it out, seems to be just the way it is with this car. Rears are wearing evenly, but are soon to be at the dangerous level for good grip in the corners. Slicks anyone?

Slicks...BTW, if anyone is considering racing on bias ply slicks (ike the MT ET Streets in 28X11.50X17)...Don't. Not unless you have a lot of nerve, (or stupidity--same, yes?) and can handle 4200 pounds on jello at trap speeds of 110 MPH...

WhooWhee, baby, what a ride! Take my word on this, just don't.

[tomd]

some info on how to read tires

http://www.handymanusa.com/articles/tire.html

[John F. Russo]

SergntMac
"I will be replacing them after the turn of the year because they have met their 50% use rate, something y'all should think about. Don't drive ANY tire past it's 50% wear mark, IMHO."


I have from 4/32 to 7/32 in. tread depth left on the same tires that you have. I don't know what they were when they were new. What would you do?

______________________________ _____________
2003 Blue 300B (Canadian) (reversed traction control, mini spare, trunked
6 disc CD changer,clock-in-the-radio, heated front seats, hood light)
-Born 12/10/02
-12,000 miles
-18 mpg at a steady speed of 80 mph
-Stock transmission (upgraded with Performance Automatic
clutches and band after stock tranny failed in 8,800 miles)
-Wheel locks (Ford)
-Badgeless front grille by “Zach”
Kenny Brown: 6th “signature series” conversion (450 hp) Born 3/28/03
-Dead pedal
-Baer front brakes 14 in. two piston, vented rotors
-MMX Driveshaft
-4.10 gears
-Vortech supercharger (7 to 8 psig boost)
-Pirelli P-Zero Asymmetric (front 255/45ZR18 99Y;rear 255/50ZR18 102Y)
-FordChip
-One coil of each front stock spring removed to produce the “same” effect
as an Eibach spring
-Ground clearance: 5 in.
______________________________ ________________
1961 Ford Galaxie, 2 dr. Club Victoria, 390CID, 375hp, 4 barrel

[Ross]

I talked to a guy at tirerack.com. He said that the OEM tires are the ONLY ones available in stock size. I mentioned that I might want to go to the rear tire size all around, and he said that it would mess up the anti lock brake sensors. Two questions:
1. are there other tires besides the OEM that come in 245/55RZ18 97W M+S?
2. Will going to the same size all around interfere with the ABS?

[TAF]

I just bought a new set of "shoes' for mine...I like the BFG's...over 20K on the originals...yeah, theres tread left and I had good wear...but for the price...I'll do these every 20K and smile.

$400 from TireRack, delivered to my install place, $15 each for mounting/balance (road-force-high speed)...$460 is a DEAL in my book.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by John F. Russo
SergntMac, I have from 4/32 to 7/32 in. tread depth left on the same tires that you have. I don't know what they were when they were new. What would you do?

I could be wrong on this, it's been a few years since I "learned my numbers" about tires, but let's peek anyway? The short read here is buy new tires, John. The long read explains why.

It's my understanding that "new" passenger car tires are 11-12/32 deep, depending on manfacturer. RV, SUV, and light truck tires are 14-15/32 new, again generally speaking. Presuming this to be correct, 6/32 of tread depth would indicate 50% wear, yes? Your 4/32 depth, John, is just above the legal threshold that defines a "bald" tire.

3/32 is the legal limit for a safe tire. Below 3/32, the tire will hydroplane through standing water of likewise depth under hard braking. My concern is for safety, and legal liability. Should one get involved in a serious collision, and the "Major Accident Dudes" decide to autopsy the car, 3/32 tread depth could lead to changing the responsible party, and possibly be grounds for criminal charges.

I've heard judges say stuff like "Well, Mr. Smith, Mr. Johnson may have been drunk behind the wheel, but that's another matter. You, sir, operated an unsafe vehicle and these circumstances could have been avoided had you maintained your vehicle properly." And that really hurts, when it's a member of your family that suffers the serious, or, fatal injury. I'm funny about this stuff, I'd rather throw out a half good tire, than have this kind of doubt haunt me.

On the way back from Hershey, Cruztaker and I drove through a bloddy mess on the highway, a fresh deer collision, and we were at speed. I mentioned to him that my back end felt a bit mushy in the curve, and I checked my MMs tires today.

My back tires are at 3/32, but even across the tread, no high or low spots. Just plain worn out I suppose, but I had a lot of fun wearing them out.

My front tires are at 1/32 to 4/32, depending on where you measure. The inside treads are about gone, but the rest of the tire seems okay. Looks like a serious case of "pidgeon toe" that's also part of Kenny Brown's own front suspension alignment settings. The excessive toe in has it's driving advantages, but that also contributes to premature tire wear. Handling vs. longevity, could be our next "oil thread."

BTW, John, our tires are "assymetrical" and cannot be turned around as I thought earlier. I read the instructions on the tire itself, indicating "this side out." I'm not sure when these tires went on the car, but Kenny said they were the third set, so, I'm guessing 15-17K miles by now.

Hope this helps y'all decide what's safe and what's not. IMHO, damn the few coins involved, I'd rather have the safe grip. It's a big heavy car that we love when it goes fast, but it needs all that to stop and corner safely. Tires give us that control, but it's not free...Just my .02c

[Mikeenh]

My father used to say that "good tires are your cheapest insurance policy". Being in sales I've lived on the road for many years putting on MANY thousands of miles. When I take my tires off, others have taken them and put them on their car. I'm with Sarge, change them early. Most of us have a $500 deductable on their insurance. I'd rather spend that on good tires than body shop bills or defendining yourself in a lawsuit.


Damn, I like this spell check. Thanks Logan :D

[2003Marauder]

I'm waiting for the g-Force 2nd generation tires that are coming out. Check out information on the New Tread design. Knowing that they're the only ones currently OEM tire sizes, hopefully they will make a set for the Marauder.
Note the last sentence about new sizes coming out later. Question is WHEN?

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/assets/pdf/gforce_ta_kdw.pdf
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=g-Force+T%2FA+KDW+2&vehicleSearch=false&partnum=555VR8GFTAKDW2RF&fromCompare1=yes


The BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW-2
("KDW" for Key feature: Dry and Wet traction, the “2” is our addition identifying that this is the second generation g-Force T/A KDW is the Ultra High Performance summer tire that was developed to provide blend a dramatic-looking, ultra high performance tread design with superior dry and wet road performance. The BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW-2 is available in sizes for drivers of the world's hottest sports cars, coupes, sedans and light trucks.

The g-Force T/A KDW-2 features large tread blocks to enhance dry road stability, handling and wear under high torque loads, while rounded shoulder profiles help provide feedback for the driver communicating the tire's progressive and predictable characteristics as they reach their limits of adhesion. A silica-reinforced tread compound with wide circumferential and lateral grooves form a directional tread design to speed water evacuation, improve wet traction and reduce the risk of hydroplaning. This basic tread design technology is shared with the g-Force T/A radial racing rain tires used in the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) Trans Am Series. Internally, the twin steel belts are reinforced by BFGoodrich's ETEC (Equal TEnsion Containment) System which uses spirally-wound nylon strips to provide excellent strength, consistent footprint pressure and maximum contact area under Y-speed rated conditions while it reduces weight and helps provide more uniform ride quality. The g-Force T/A KDW-2 tires feature g-Control sidewall inserts to resist deflection and generate cornering force while rim protector ribs help protect alloy wheels from curb damage.

The g-Force T/A KDW-2 tires feature subtle black letter styling and will initially be available in selected sizes.

Sizes will expand throughout the year to include 60-, 55-, 50-, 45-, 40- and 35-series, V- and Z-speed rated sizes for 17" to 24" wheel diameters.

[studio460]

Ross:

I've been wanting to change my tires too. I really want to lower my CG so I think I'm gonna go with lower-series Nitto 555s as soon as my BFGs wear out. Here's the details:

NT-555 EXTREME ZR
Ultra High Performance Radial
UTQG: Treadwear 300, Traction A, Temperature A
Z Performance Rated

Case B: Nitto NT-555s:
Front: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Rear:
245/40 ZR18 25.67" . . . . . 255/45 ZR18 26.97"

Unfortunately, Nitto doesn't make a set which matches the Pirelli P-Zeros (front: 255/45/ZR18; rear: 255/50/ZR18), otherwise, I would get those sizes instead. For me, the P-Zeros are just too expensive. The Nittos are very affordable AND cool-looking too.

Maybe you already read the whole thread where I make a number of posts regarding the Nittos vs. the stock BFG sizes--anyway, if you haven't, it's here. (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5581)

[Ross]

Sarge, did I read your post correctly that our tires are asymmetrical and have to be mounted only one way? Does that mean no rotation? Doesn't the owner's manual call for rotation? Or are you referring to a different brand of tires than the OEM?

[MM03MOK]

In rotating the tires from right to left side, the outside of the tire remains on the outside. What you can't do is reverse or flip over the tire on the rim itself.

From the owner's manual:

Tire rotation
Because your vehicle’s tires are styled with unique larger tires on the rear wheels, you can only replace tires side to side. Must not rotate tires in a criss cross pattern or front to rear. If you notice that the tires wear unevenly, have them checked.
² Tire rotation

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by Ross
Sarge, did I read your post correctly that our tires are asymmetrical and have to be mounted only one way? Does that mean no rotation? Doesn't the owner's manual call for rotation? Or are you referring to a different brand of tires than the OEM?

Ross, I was speaking of the Pirelli tires as being assymetrical, and mounted in only one way. Sorry I didn't clarify this for y'all, I was answering John's question. He and I have the Pirelli tires as part of the Maraider S package from KB.

The OEM BFGs are not assymetrical and can be rotated, as well as "flipped over" to abate the wear on the inside treads of the front tires. I see no reason to flip the rears on either brand. Please read the side of your tires for more 411.

Thanks for the clarification, Bunny.

[2003Marauder]

According to :
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=BFGoodrich&model=g-Force+T%2FA+KDWS

Our original tread depth is 10/32s on the FRONT and Just 9/32s on the REAR. so 5/32 would be less than 50% wear.

I currently have almost 20,000 miles and tread depth is 7/32s. on the rear--possibly 6/32s but no less.

I did not check them when purchased. Maybe someone with just a few miles can verify new tread depth.

Side note: The Firestone Firehawks on my 350hp 96 Tbird show original tread depth at 10/32 and with just 9,000 miles they are also at 7/32s but they are really, really good for the Tbird.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by 2003Marauder
Our original tread depth is 10/32s on the FRONT and Just 9/32s on the REAR. so 5/32 would be less than 50% wear. I currently have almost 20,000 miles and tread depth is 7/32s. on the rear--possibly 6/32s but no less. I did not check them when purchased. Maybe someone with just a few miles can verify new tread depth.

The link you provided, 2003, timed out before I got to read it, so, I have to ask a few questions about these TireRack stats you mention.

I'm told that the best measurement of tread depth is taken after the tire is mounted on the wheel, inflated to recommended PSI, mounted on the car, and placed on the pavement to support the car's full driving weight. Measuring any tire off the delivery truck would give much different (and misleading) readings than one in the driveway, yes?

Thanks for your 411 on this, 2003, I didn't have any MM OEM tires available to measure before I posted. Nonetheless, I did stroll through a local tire store, and took some measurements of my own. I also asked the owner why I was getting so many different readings from apparently similar tires. His response started with one word..."molds." Mold? "No...Molds..."

"Tires are molded...Hot rubber 'n stuff filling a form, or, cast if youwill, a lot like cake batter in a springform pan? Every tire is the same, but different, just like Hostess cup cakes are likewise the same and different." He went on to explain how to accurately measure tread depth.

In a nutshell, the best guide anyone can ask for, is a measurement of a new tire, inflated and supporting the weight of the car before road use. That seems impossible for us right now, I agree, perhaps some new owners will check in us with mileage and tread depth numbers we can backward calculate and chart? That way, this 411 may help us out further down the road.

Based on my discoveries from inspecting real tires in a local store, my "11-12/32 new, depending on manfacturer" seems generous, but not a bad place to start after the fact, eh?

If you own a tire gauge and really do check your tire pressure, a tread depth gauge should be keeping it company in your tool kit. It's a 3 buck tool @ most Auto Zones, not a glamorus tool mind you. If you count quarts of oil and winshield washer stuff for an expense account, a tread depth gauges seems a necessary tool here too.

Nonetheless, in my home state, "3/32" treadwear equals bald. This is a point where tread wear and standing water meet face to face, and standing water wins. Any tire of 3/32 tread depth or less, will hydroplane through that water under hard braking, and once you lose control, you lose.

That's something to think about, and that was my point.

[CRUZTAKER]

Originally posted by Ross
........ Two questions:
1. are there other tires besides the OEM that come in 245/55RZ18 97W M+S?
2. Will going to the same size all around interfere with the ABS?

I am not sure if anyone answered question two: Many of us run same size tires thru the winter months up north. I, in particular, do something likely no one else on the board has done...and that is to utilize four of the exact same size tires on all corners. 225-60-16's

I don't do this out of some special secret, or knowledge, or lack there of.....I did it 'cause it was all I had at the time, and had no other choice as I was broke as one could get after shelling out a 15k down payment on hot rod in the dead of winter. The tires/wheels were sitting in the corner of the garage and the MM spoke up and said Get under my belly!..., so I threw them on....test drove it, and drove the remainer of the winter some 700 miles or so without ANY problems with brakes or handling. An inaccurate speedo, but that was all.

The northern solution is to have a dual program chip from our man Dennis set up for summer and winter wheels....it's almost November, change the wheels...flick the switch...and tear up some ice with Kelly Wintermark steel studded tires!

-Barry

[2003Marauder]

Sarge, thanks for the reminder about checking tread depth. I had not checked tread depth with a gauge since I bought the MM last year. I do check my tires, with my finger, every time I check the tire pressure and every time I wash my cars. Been doing it so long that I know when tires are getting worn down and need replacing. I also have the habit of sticking my finger in the tread on other peoples tires and can't count the number of times I have told someone that their tires need replacing. Took a stroll around our company parking lot yesterday at lunch and could not believe some of the BALD tires that people I work with are driving on. Mentioned this to the HR lady and she agreed to contact the employee with the really bad tires about this.

From now on, it's a good idea to check tread depth as soon as you get new tires mounted.

Regarding the link to www.tirerack.com , looks like it needs the info from a cookie to work. I just clicked on shop for tires, selected the 2003 MM, then clicked on 'best sellers, then clicked on the specs link when the BFG tires were displayed.

[nslatin]

I just checked my tread depth. Only 1400 miles on them, and the car.The fronts had 8/32's, the rear 9/32's. These measurements were consistent across the tire, and from side to side.