649hp & 532lb torque on pump gas

[Mongoose]

The Beast finally made it on the dyno today. Backed out of the pull at 6500rpm due to belt slippage at only 7lbs of boost. Will be switching to 8-rib pulleys next along with some 80# injectors. Didn't bother trying with the water methanol injection because of the slippage. Still a lot more timing available once all upgrades installed. Special thanks to Lonnie/BlueOvalChips, Mark, and Chad!:banana2:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/medium/dynoOCT27_09.jpg

[MM03MOK]

Holy Smoke, Charlie!! :eek: :eek: !!! :2thumbs:

[DOOM]

:awe: :awe: :awe:

[dohc324ci]

YIKES! 7lbs! What do you have under that hood?

[RR|Suki]

That's wild

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

650hp...oh jebus!

[ImpalaSlayer]

holy crap! ive been waiting to see what you had going on!

[breeze]

well dam...

[Bigdogjim]

Nice to hear it's starting to come together! :up:
Cant wait for a another update!

[justbob]

Man there be some quick Rauders lately!

[Drewstang]

Nice numbers Charlie. I will need to get with you soon. My car is down with a knocking rod, and I need some tips on pulling the engine and setting timing on a 4 valve.

[-Matt-]

Congrats man! I was actually talking to lonnie while your car was on the dyno, between pulls. lol

[SC Cheesehead]

Sweet!

You gonna be at SSHS9?

[Mongoose]

Sweet!

You gonna be at SSHS9?
I had hoped to have it ready by then. Since I haven't taken it to the strip yet, I have no idea how it will launch and didn't want to spend all my time working on suspension settings. Would have to adjust the set-up again once the estimated max 725+rwhp after mods is reached. Those of you who know me know that it's going to be done right or not done at all. So for right now, it looks like I've got ~4 months to get it ready for 2010 events.:depress:

[Mr. Man]

What would 725rwhp translate to (approx) at the crankshaft?

[MrBluGruv]

gat dayum, that's a lot of guts.
I'm feeling like quite the minority with only a few tens of HP over stock, tops. :(

[Bradley G]

NOiCE :bows:

[Mongoose]

What would 725rwhp translate to (approx) at the crankshaft?

Roughly 885-905hp at the crank depending on what factor you use. Ultimately looking for 925hp at the crank but like to be conservative.

[ntd]

Ultimately looking for 925hp at the crank but like to be conservative.

:eek:conservative:eek: I would love to hear some details
engine,blower,fuel system, suspension if you don't mind sharing some of your info :bows:

[justbob]

He could fill a whole album with pics!, the car is awesome!

[MM2004]

I will say this about Charlie's Beast,..

Nothing has been overlooked and everything researched at least twice.

He has one helluva MM and can't wait until completion.

Great numbers Charlie!

:bows::bows:

I'll make it over to your place soon to hoist some beers with ya'.

Mike.

[Motorhead350]

What would 725rwhp translate to (approx) at the crankshaft?

725 x 1.2 = 870

or we can try 725 x 1.18 = 855.5

So he will be between 855.5 and 870 Horsepower.

Maybe more???

[ckadiddle]

Can you spare the rest of us a few horses? ;)

[offroadkarter]

725 x 1.2 = 870

or we can try 725 x 1.18 = 855.5

So he will be between 855.5 and 870 Horsepower.

Maybe more???


where is 1.2 or the 1.18 coming from?

Power loss thru an automatic is about 18 to 20 percent.

[ImpalaSlayer]

where is 1.2 or the 1.18 coming from?

Power loss thru an automatic is about 18 to 20 percent.

you fail lmao

i failed math every year in HS and can even figure this out!

:rofl:

[Mongoose]

725 x 1.2 = 870

or we can try 725 x 1.18 = 855.5

so he will be between 855.5 and 870 horsepower.

Maybe more???

725 / .82 = 884
725 / .80 = 906

[RR|Suki]

725 / .82 = 884
725 / .80 = 906

truth when you do just num x 1.whatever it never comes out right

[ImpalaSlayer]

ok well it turns out i still suck at math LOL

[Dennis Reinhart]

What would 725rwhp translate to (approx) at the crankshaft?


860 HP to the flywheel

[1stMerc]

He could fill a whole album with pics!, the car is awesome!

Tru dat. saw his car in person and awesome doesn't even begin to discribe it. Never get tired of looking at that bad boy.

[Mr. Man]

That is very impressive and on pump to boot:2thumbs:

[burt ragio]

Big numbers. So what's in the build ?

[O's Fan Rich]

After seeing these numbers, I just went out to the shop and slapped my Marauder.......

[Embassy]

Those of you who know me know that it's going to be done right or not done at all.


That's for sure. As I replied in my text the other night, congrats! You've put a ton of time and money into this and it's great to seeing it finally coming to fruition.

[Lonnie@BOC]

It is a beast alright. Can't wait for him to bring it back to finish it up and then tune it for the track.

[FordNut]

Big numbers. So what's in the build ?

Yeah, I'm wondering that too.

Took me well over 12 psi on my BB/S to make those kind of numbers.

[MarauderTJA]

Great numbers:up:. Fully understand what it takes to get there. Good luck with the car. You will get it all together:beer:.

[martyo]

Yeah, I'm wondering that too.

Took me well over 12 psi on my BB/S to make those kind of numbers.

I am dying to know how he made that much power on only 7#'s.

That is a lot of power from a (very) small motor.

[RR|Suki]

Same here, 7# and that power is siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick... what has peaked my interest as well is the belt slip at 7psi

[Bradley G]

MMM,... let's see,.. Six hundred Fity RWHP,..@7 PSI,..on a puny 6 rib pulley set up,..no timing,.. no meth,.. no Lonnie massage?

[Mongoose]

Same here, 7# and that power is siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick... what has peaked my interest as well is the belt slip at 7psi
We had some issues with the dyno mainly the O2 sensor filter plugging. That in turn voided several pulls. As we were ramping up the tune, not too much attention was paid to boost gauge but to the A/F ratio. Three times after taking the motor to 7000rpm, the belt would jump a rib when the throttle body slammed shut while we were trying to figure out dyno issue. You got to remember this is a Vortech JT trim set-up with the smallest pulley capable of building 22lbs of boost. After jumping a rib several times, the belt was starting to show some wear. Being it was late in the day and we were approaching the duty cycle limit of the injectors, we made one last pull and backed off early when slippage was detected (boost was at 7# at that point) and deemed it best to stop until bigger injectors could be installed. Even with slippage, we were probably closer to 10# at 7000rpm. That limited the time for Lonnie to do some massaging. Spraying the H20/methanol at that time wouldn't have helped the numbers that much without building more boost.
According to the builder, this "engine is good for 8500rpm" and that "basically I have a NASCAR motor." Since the pump in the tranny will start to cavitate at 7000, the tune needs to reflect that. So even though the motor is capable of building more hp and higher rpms, the tune is restricted by the tranny. And now that I know where I am at hp wise, I may even go up a couple of sizes on the S/C pulley to further help any slip issues. And no, I'm not going to put a manual 6-speed in.;)

[martyo]

How come you have not answered the combo questions?

Also, how were you measuring boost?

[Mongoose]

How come you have not answered the combo questions?
My garage, and yours?
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/vbgarage.php?do=view&id=1125


Also, how were you measuring boost?
I was going by the Autometer gauge in the car.

[O's Fan Rich]

The belt was starting to slip at 7#'s... I don't tghink it was a total of 7.

[ntd]

are you still using returnless or a return fuel system?

[martyo]

My garage, and yours?
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/vbgarage.php?do=view&id=1125


I was going by the Autometer gauge in the car.

I am running the same basic combo as yours, except my motor is built by Walker Performance here in Hiram, Georgia.

I am running about 17#s of boost.

In all honestly I have no idea of my rwhp because we have not spun it on the dyno in forever.

[Mongoose]

are you still using returnless or a return fuel system?
Returnless and using individual FPDMs on the GT pumps.


Originally Posted by Martyo
In all honestly I have no idea of my rwhp because we have not spun it on the dyno in forever.
I can understand that with you making so many mods. I'm not so worried about the exact ammount of boost as making sure that it is consistant. You know as well as I do that the true key to horsepower is in the heads and the tune. But no matter what ammount of horsepower you build, it doesn't do you any good unless you can get it to the pavement. I saw the pics of your wheels/slicks. They look nice!!! Specs?

[Lonnie@BOC]

The belt slippage issue and fuel was my biggest concern. I knew the belt would start slipping before any real boost would be develop since he had the smallest pulley they make installed. I even stepped up to one of my Thump RRR billet tensioners but with a 6 rib setup it didn’t help a lot. Boost was observed by two sources, installed gauge and for testing a temp gauge, both mechanical. While Charlie was running an errand for me I did a pull without boost and it made over 350 rwhp at 4200 rpms when I let out of it. I didn't get a chance to see what compression it has but with those numbers and the custom cams it isn't a low compression setup.

I was hoping that the belt slippage would be the limiting factor for this round and not the injectors. It was and why the a/f is not a nice flat line. It is basically following the belt slip. Once we finally got the air leaks fixed (PVC system) and replaced the wide band filter I had 2 back to back pulls with the exact same results and that was as far I was going. No use trying to chase the a/f while the belt is slipping. As the belt cooled or heated up the slippage would be different and I would be basically chasing my tail.

The fuel system is still returnless with dual GT pumps and my dual FPDM setup.

[Mr. Man]

I am making an assumption that these belts have liner grooves. Is it possible to get a belt that is more of a cog design? I'm sure you guys have checked into this already but sometimes out of the mouths of the innocent...:)

[magindat]

Either there's a 1 missing in front of that 7 or it's 12:1 compression!

BTW, I've seen Al's 17:1 Carbuerated 5.4 in person....

Either way, nice work!

[ntd]

there are numerous guys on the mach 1 forums changing there pulleys out for a 8 rib setup http://www.slugbitchracing.com/8.rib.conversion.htm forgive my stupidity but would this not work for a Marauder. I am working on a v1 t-trim setup but my main concern is belt slip, what are people doing to correct this problem? lonnie or mongoose how far are you expecting the fuel system to go power wise?

[dohc324ci]

there are numerous guys on the mach 1 forums changing there pulleys out for a 8 rib setup http://www.slugbitchracing.com/8.rib.conversion.htm forgive my stupidity but would this not work for a Marauder. I am working on a v1 t-trim setup but my main concern is belt slip, what are people doing to correct this problem? lonnie or mongoose how far are you expecting the fuel system to go power wise?


So there 8 rib setup wont work with Marauders? oh boy...I am looking at a DR S-Trim next year and looking into the 8 Rib pulley $$ but worth it I think.

[ntd]

So there 8 rib setup wont work with Marauders? oh boy...I am looking at a DR S-Trim next year and looking into the 8 Rib pulley $$ but worth it I think.

I don't know:dunno: I would love to hear from some of the big hitters using centrifugal. What are you guys doing to combat belt slip:confused:

[dohc324ci]

Hey start a new thread; dont want to hijack this one...lol

[RR|Suki]

a number of guys out there running 8 rib, different timing covers as well so they can run different tensioners.

[Mongoose]

Either there's a 1 missing in front of that 7 or it's 12:1 compression!

BTW, I've seen Al's 17:1 Carbuerated 5.4 in person....

Either way, nice work!
Compression worked out to be 8.6:1
Remember this pic?
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/1/1/2/5/FoxLakeshortblock1a.jpg

[martyo]

I don't know:dunno: I would love to hear from some of the big hitters using centrifugal. What are you guys doing to combat belt slip:confused:

Get a Reichart Racing (not to be confused with Rheinhart Automotive) pulley and work out a better tensioner.

Belt slip in these set ups can be a bear.

[martyo]

I am making an assumption that these belts have liner grooves. Is it possible to get a belt that is more of a cog design? I'm sure you guys have checked into this already but sometimes out of the mouths of the innocent...:)

Cogs are street cars do not work out well. Plus, a cog set up is not readily available and would need to be a custom $$$etup.

[martyo]

I saw the pics of your wheels/slicks. They look nice!!! Specs?

They are MT slicks on Bogart wheels with bead locks.

Rich Bogart worked with us on getting those wheels set up and they look soooooo good in person.

We were spinning the slicks on the wheels (not an uncommon problem) and needed to step up to the bead locks.

[MarauderTJA]

My guess that it was more like 17# boost. Boost on dynos can be off. That would make sense. An 8 rib set-up will reduce belt slippage. I had issues with that happening as well. The 8 rib and a Ford racing steel tensioner on a 98 Cobra front timing cover (thanks to Fordnut) cured the problem. I am running 18# boost with my D1SC.

[Mongoose]

They are MT slicks on Bogart wheels with bead locks.

Rich Bogart worked with us on getting those wheels set up and they look soooooo good in person.

We were spinning the slicks on the wheels (not an uncommon problem) and needed to step up to the bead locks.

I found some 15"x10 wheels w/7.5" backspacing. Mounted 29x10 Goodyear Eagle Dragway Specials on them. Still need to screw the beads. Had to move shock mounts up 5/8" and inboard 1/4" to accommodate. No problem clearing the brake calipers.

[MarauderTJA]

Just passed though Louisville this afternoon. Would have loved to have seen your car.

[magindat]

Compression worked out to be 8.6:1
Remember this pic?
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/1/1/2/5/FoxLakeshortblock1a.jpg

CP 2.2 CC dish? Gotta be 17 PSI.
Beautiful honing work!

[martyo]

I found some 15"x10 wheels w/7.5" backspacing. Mounted 29x10 Goodyear Eagle Dragway Specials on them. Still need to screw the beads. Had to move shock mounts up 5/8" and inboard 1/4" to accommodate. No problem clearing the brake calipers.

Yep, my shocks had to be relocated too.

I am running Wildoods in the rear.

[Lonnie@BOC]

Not that much concerned at what the boost is right now. Like I said the fueling and slippage was the main thing this time. We will know for sure what the boost level is next time, I'll setup a standalone 3 bar MAP that can be data logged. As for what the fuel system will support, with some minor changes to the hat that I've talked with Charlie about it should be good for at least 900. The way it is right now the injectors are too small.

[dohc324ci]

Not that much concerned at what the boost is right now. Like I said the fueling and slippage was the main thing this time. We will know for sure what the boost level is next time, I'll setup a standalone 3 bar MAP that can be data logged. As for what the fuel system will support, with some minor changes to the hat that I've talked with Charlie about it should be good for at least 900. The way it is right now the injectors are too small.


Hey Lonnie, nice chatting with you this morning bud. Good info on this setup! BTW, I'll let you know on that flex plate today.

Brian

[SILVERSURFER03]

wow shinny and thats MAD POWER COSMIC awsome

[Lonnie@BOC]

Hey Lonnie, nice chatting with you this morning bud. Good info on this setup! BTW, I'll let you know on that flex plate today.

Brian

Back at you,

[dohc324ci]

Back at you,


Your a life saver!

[Mongoose]

New 80lb injectors installed. Upsized the S/C pulley one size and bead blasted the grooves (per Vortech), remachined S/C mounting bracket to more precisely align S/C, increased stock idler diameter 1/4" by making new dual bearing pulley (stock is single bearing), increased S/C idler diameter by 1/4" by sleeving, and installed new Thump RRR tensioner with a spring in it that's so strong it took three men and a boy to get the belt on. Oversize pulleys will give more belt wrap on the S/C pulley and with the stronger tensioner and using the same length belt, slippage will hopefully be eliminated. Dual bearings in the idler pulley should keep it running truer and eliminate belt walk as the bearings wear. As soon as Lonnie and I tweak some other minor issues by data logging, we'll be back on the dyno. I think 750-775RWPH@7000rpm is within the realm of possibility.

[Zack]

A belt that tight will run the risk of nuking the upper portion of the #1 main bearing.
Tread wisely.

Im gonna assume there is no idler between the Alternator and the PS pulley, which is the ENTIRE reason behind the belt slippage.

Its quite simple to remedy:

[hotford]

My guess that it was more like 17# boost. Boost on dynos can be off. That would make sense. An 8 rib set-up will reduce belt slippage. I had issues with that happening as well. The 8 rib and a Ford racing steel tensioner on a 98 Cobra front timing cover (thanks to Fordnut) cured the problem. I am running 18# boost with my D1SC.

Very impressive but I have to agree with ^^^^ it must have been more than 7 psi with number like that.

I have a modfox with a JT trim on here last year untill i steped up to a YSI and my number at the rear were right inline with yours but at 20psi, plus my Modfox has a 8 rib conversion with a ATI damper, I have no belt slippage at 7500 rpm plus.

[Drewstang]

Damn, just when I think I'm getting close to the beast power levels he goes and turns it up a notch.

[LANDY]

Any updates on this beast?

[RacerX]

Good question! After reading this, I think Lonnie's estimate of an actual close to 10psi is correct. Sounds like there's a lot of magic in the way she breathes. In between the lines, it's heads, valves, cams and intake.

[Zack]

10psi? Um no.

[RacerX]

8.5:1 is pretty low... Gauges off, air leak???

[thathotrodlincn]

What would 725rwhp translate to (approx) at the crankshaft?

GIVE OR TAKE, 900 FLYWHEEL HP:awe::awe:

[sailsmen]

The Power Train Parasitic Drag is a constant ~60RWHP.
Think about it, do the rotating power train parts change their resistance based on the HP the engine is making?

[MarauderTJA]

Yeah, I'm wondering that too.

Took me well over 12 psi on my BB/S to make those kind of numbers.

Hope he can make SSHS9. Great numbers, but doubtful it was 7Lbs boost really.

[Mongoose]

Getting ready to relocate air-ride compressor and washer bottle to trunk to make room for new air-box. Once completed, back to the dyno.

[Dennis Reinhart]

The Beast finally made it on the dyno today. Backed out of the pull at 6500rpm due to belt slippage at only 7lbs of boost. Will be switching to 8-rib pulleys next along with some 80# injectors. Didn't bother trying with the water methanol injection because of the slippage. Still a lot more timing available once all upgrades installed. Special thanks to Lonnie/BlueOvalChips, Mark, and Chad!:banana2:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/medium/dynoOCT27_09.jpg


Great numbers Charlie mine made 646 and 583 but I hit it with a 75 shot.