MMR Big Bore Stroker NA numbers in.

[dohc324ci]

Hey all,

Numbers are in: 315rwhp/357rwtq translates to 384HP/436TQ at the crank. The initial numbers were 295rwhp/301rwtq after initial tuning. They had Eric Brooks of brooksspeed.com remote tune the car after letting them hear my concerns and netted an additional 20rwhp/56rwtq . They are claiming my stock exhaust/cams as the culprit here for holding the motor back.

Torque looks great but HP eh...Looks like Long Tubes, 2.5" exhaust is in my future to help her breath...LOL Not overly excited about the numbers somewhat disappointed but with the right CAM and exhaust rwhp would be much higher. I buckled when I went to Ford GT cams and you see the results. I cant even tell I have aftermarket cams they are very mild a very slight lope when cold and if you listen on idle. Will be blown in the future with DR Vortech S-Trim 12lbs (only CARB approved SC in Cali).

Cheers!

[offroadkarter]

OMG I can see why you were so dissapointed, thats horriffic!

You can get those numbers with boltons, eek!

[Got_1]

congrats man. those are still pretty decent nmbers, especialy torque. numbers aside, how does it FEEL compared to stock?

[ImpalaSlayer]

they doo seem low but the tq is pretty good looking!

[dohc324ci]

congrats man. those are still pretty decent nmbers, especialy torque. numbers aside, how does it FEEL compared to stock?

Well torque is really fun. I can spin the rears "easily" on the initial tune. I dont have the car back yet with the new tune I am sure I will notice another 56rwtq...LOL. I will be sure to report back.

[bob6364]

"They are claiming my stock exhaust/cams as the culprit here for holding the motor back."

110% correct You can have all the bore and stroke in the world,but with out some way for the air to get out your losing tons of HP I bet you see 350+hp with LT and a free flowing exhaust. Mach1's see 350 to 370hp with your mods and an exhaust.

[ntd]

Don't know how this stands up compared to other 5.3L but I'm sure a good exhaust and a blower will more than make you happy

[bob6364]

Giver some SQEeeeze.... :D

[bob6364]

actually I'm way off...I didn't read your sig with those mods and cams,exhaust and boost a pump I would guess you would hit 400rwhp without much problem.

[Glenn]

Something is just not right with all the mods you did to the engine. :confused: Don't let anyone kid you - it's not the cams.

I would go to the best modular tuner within 500 miles and get this straightened-out. I ran 298 RWHP NA with just UDPs, FRPP shorty headers, hi-flow X-pipe, with OEM mufflers and tail pipes, CAI and a SCT tune - that's it. Plus, I had 4:10s which reduce your dyno HP. This combo ran low 13.9s.

Perhaps your cams are not indexed properly, but a good tuner should be able to discover what is wrong. Something is not running right.

Glenn Ford

[FordNut]

Pretty decent for a remote tune... I keep forgetting about the stock exhaust, necessary for CARB since none of the upgrades are approved. The TQ feels good, don't it!?

[FordNut]

My BB/S with virtually every bolt-on, cams, Kooks made 360 NA. I'd say the exhaust is at least 35-40 hp so it's pretty close to what I would expect.

[ImpalaSlayer]

how do 4.10s make your dyno hp lower?

[bob6364]

My BB/S with virtually every bolt-on, cams, Kooks made 360 NA. I'd say the exhaust is at least 35-40 hp so it's pretty close to what I would expect.

Was that a 4.6 or a 5.3 like he has?

[FordNut]

My BB/S with virtually every bolt-on, cams, Kooks made 360 NA. I'd say the exhaust is at least 35-40 hp so it's pretty close to what I would expect.


Was that a 4.6 or a 5.3 like he has?

Big Bore / Stroker. 5.3

[ImpalaSlayer]

just as refrence, i made 306hp/289tq with every bolt on and a leaky naz intake and horrible air fuel beacuse of it.

im with Brian on this, those numbers seem to be pretty accurate. im sure if you open it up more it will make tons more power.

just my .02

[dohc324ci]

My BB/S with virtually every bolt-on, cams, Kooks made 360 NA. I'd say the exhaust is at least 35-40 hp so it's pretty close to what I would expect.

Hey Brian, I do remember you saying 360NA...LOL

I just got of the phone with MMR and they said the tuner could run it a little leaner to squeeze a few more ponies...now they say to run it until it pings (thats how you find where the ceiling is) and back it down. They say it wont hurt and NA motor; SC different story.

They are standing by 340-350rwhp even with stock exhaust. I think overall with a remote tune its ok. I'll re tune when the exhaust gets done.

Cheers!

[dohc324ci]

Pretty decent for a remote tune... I keep forgetting about the stock exhaust, necessary for CARB since none of the upgrades are approved. The TQ feels good, don't it!?

When I first ordered the motor I had ordered the Comp Stage II Blower Cams; then I said I am in Cali then Rick said it wont pass...arg Maybe stage Is plus some cam adjusters and some other workaround but the price was starting to climb! knowing a SC is in my future I settle for the Ford GT cams.

And even with the initial tune the TQ is AWESOME! To think I almost moved to Apex North Carolina in 06......I wouldn't have to worry.about the CARB..crap LOL. You guys are lucky you dont have to deal with Kalifornia CARB regulations...

[RR|Suki]

OMG I can see why you were so dissapointed, thats horriffic!

You can get those numbers with boltons, eek!

yeah? you know of a 4.6 marauder with boltons running 315whp and 357rwtq?

[RR|Suki]

When I first ordered the motor I had ordered the Comp Stage II Blower Cams; then I said I am in Cali then Rick said it wont pass...arg Maybe stage Is plus some cam adjusters and some other workaround but the price was starting to climb! knowing a SC is in my future I settle for the Ford GT cams.

And even with the initial tune the TQ is AWESOME! To think I almost moved to Apex North Carolina in 06......I wouldn't have to worry.about the CARB..crap LOL. You guys are lucky you dont have to deal with Kalifornia CARB regulations...

nice numbers man, if you are getting a blower you'll have more power than you'll need anyway :burnout:

[ImpalaSlayer]

nice numbers man, if you are getting a blower you'll have more power than you'll need anyway :burnout:

yeah i wouldnt worry, once you go FI, n/a is sucky lol

[Glenn]

This post needs a reality check. Read the engine mods in detail - this is a super built 5.3 Boss 302 Engine. It should make 380+ HP easily. Read the article below on a 4.6 build NA motor with FRPP shorty headers making 400 HP.

OK - let'er rip :flamer:

Glenn Ford


http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/medium/FRPP_Shorty_Dyno_p1.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

[FordNut]

I'd go ahead and get some widened rear wheels...

[bob6364]

Go race tune with 100 octane....or have you done that already...

[FordNut]

Glenn,
My build is about as radical as you can get. I made 360 rwhp with long tube headers and high flow exhaust system along with every bolt-on you could imagine. I had it tuned by one of the best in the country and it made 360 rwhp. Yes, that's a bit over 400 at the crank. I believe Brian (bcastro/dohc324ci) has stock exhaust manifolds and cats. We've seen many times over that upgraded exhaust gains 30-40 rwhp, so I would expect his setup to be 320 rwhp or so.


This post needs a reality check. Read the engine mods in detail - this is a super built 5.3 Boss 302 Engine. It should make 380+ HP easily. Read the article below on a 4.6 build NA motor with FRPP shorty headers making 400 HP.

OK - let'er rip :flamer:

Glenn Ford


[]

[RR|Suki]

This post needs a reality check. Read the engine mods in detail - this is a super built 5.3 Boss 302 Engine. It should make 380+ HP easily. Read the article below on a 4.6 build NA motor with FRPP shorty headers making 400 HP.

OK - let'er rip :flamer:

Glenn Ford


http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/medium/FRPP_Shorty_Dyno_p1.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

you do realize you are quoting engine dyno numbers, on motors with upgraded cams, and comparing them to his whp numbers with mild S/C cams...

[ImpalaSlayer]

Glenn,
My build is about as radical as you can get. I made 360 rwhp with long tube headers and high flow exhaust system along with every bolt-on you could imagine. I had it tuned by one of the best in the country and it made 360 rwhp. Yes, that's a bit over 400 at the crank. I believe Brian (bcastro/dohc324ci) has stock exhaust manifolds and cats. We've seen many times over that upgraded exhaust gains 30-40 rwhp, so I would expect his setup to be 320 rwhp or so.


it because he dosent have cobra shortys!!!!!!!!!!!

[bob6364]

it because he dosent have cobra shortys!!!!!!!!!!!

Shhhh....Your giving away all our secrets!

[Phrog_gunner]

it because he dosent have cobra shortys!!!!!!!!!!!

i think the ss brake hoses added some rwhp to the dyno numbers too!!!!

[Joe Walsh]

Nice engine! and dyno numbers;
Torque looks about right, HP is a little low, but that is the exhaust flow (or lack of flow due to OEM exhaust) at high rpm killing you.

Just for comparison:

My forged BB (5.0) with just about every bolt-on available makes 324 RWHP/340 RWTQ.

That is all I am going to get on the stock fuel pump....
I wanted to run it to 6,500 rpm, but my tuner said that the fuel pump was at 100% duty cycle at 6,200 rpm.

[dohc324ci]

Nice engine! and dyno numbers;
Torque looks about right, HP is a little low, but that is the exhaust flow (or lack of flow due to OEM exhaust) at high rpm killing you.

Just for comparison:

My forged BB (5.0) with just about every bolt-on available makes 324 RWHP/340 RWTQ.

That is all I am going to get on the stock fuel pump....
I wanted to run it to 6,500 rpm, but my tuner said that the fuel pump was at 100% duty cycle at 6,200 rpm.

Thanks Joe! Looks like the first order of business are some shorties and a full 2.5" exhaust...BTW, the tuners says Zacks trans tune rocks!

[Windsor58]

...moved, so as not to hijack this thread...

[LANDY]

Thanks Joe! Looks like the first order of business are some shorties and a full 2.5" exhaust...BTW, the tuners says Zacks trans tune rocks!
LONG TUBES.. all the way:burnout:

[dohc324ci]

congrats man. those are still pretty decent nmbers, especialy torque. numbers aside, how does it FEEL compared to stock?

On the break in tune torque is abundant and she really really pulls out on the open road. I can burn rubber easily...prior to that I had to hold the ole break pedal and mash the skinny peddle...now I mash the skinny peddle and bye bye tread...As I said earlier I really am hooked on the low end grunt makes for more enjoyable ride for sure. The tuner used Zacks trans tune values and he said from a roll I can now roast em...hehehehe Will report back with the final tune.

[FordNut]

Thanks Joe! Looks like the first order of business are some shorties and a full 2.5" exhaust...BTW, the tuners says Zacks trans tune rocks!

Can you pass emissions with shorties? I don't believe they are CARB approved for the MM even though they are approved for the 'stang. If you go with shorties you have to do something with the cats/H-pipe too and it will probably get flagged in a visual check. I remember you recently got inspected and passed, but you gotta do it again in a couple of years (or move to another state!).

Upgrade the mufflers and intermediate pipes after the H-pipe to 2.5" and see if that helps. Funny thing about the tuner(s) now having a COPY of Zack's trans tune... Ironic.

[SC Cheesehead]

Can you pass emissions with shorties? I don't believe they are CARB approved for the MM even though they are approved for the 'stang. If you go with shorties you have to do something with the cats/H-pipe too and it will probably get flagged in a visual check. I remember you recently got inspected and passed, but you gotta do it again in a couple of years (or move to another state!).

Upgrade the mufflers and intermediate pipes after the H-pipe to 2.5" and see if that helps. Funny thing about the tuner(s) now having a COPY of Zack's trans tune... Ironic.

+1 Brian. Thought the same thing myself.

[burt ragio]

Nice numbers. What is your stall speed & type converter are you running ?
Why would 4:10 gears change hp # ?

[Glenn]

315 HP for all this work ===

Built by Modular Mustang Racing
MMR 5.0 STROKER Street Mod 850
FRPP Boss 302 Iron Block 5.3L 324ci 10:1cr:burnout:
Forged Internals (ARP/Manley)
MMR Stage 3 P&P Heads/SS Valves
FRPP Ford GT Cams/Comp Cam Valve Springs
MMR Ported Intake w/PHP Spacer
FRPP 39LB Injectors & GT-40 Fuel Pump
MMR Racing Oil Pump & Windage Tray
SCT 3000 MAF & XCAL 3 Custom Tune
JLT CAI, Flowmaster

The 4.6 mod motor in the previous article turned 400 HP had MILD cams also. Hopefully the LT and exhaust work will bring this engine up to 350 HP.

But, this engine had to cost somewhere over $8,000 including any LT exhaust work. Would it have been more reasonable to put this money into a simple forged 4.6 with a SC?

I honestly wish you the best with this engine and hope you arrive at the HP you paid for. But, I will not be doing any business with MMR in my lifetime.

Glenn Ford

[RR|Suki]

315 HP for all this work ===

Built by Modular Mustang Racing
MMR 5.0 STROKER Street Mod 850
FRPP Boss 302 Iron Block 5.3L 324ci 10:1cr:burnout:
Forged Internals (ARP/Manley)
MMR Stage 3 P&P Heads/SS Valves
FRPP Ford GT Cams/Comp Cam Valve Springs
MMR Ported Intake w/PHP Spacer
FRPP 39LB Injectors & GT-40 Fuel Pump
MMR Racing Oil Pump & Windage Tray
SCT 3000 MAF & XCAL 3 Custom Tune
JLT CAI, Flowmaster

The 4.6 mod motor in the previous article turned 400 HP had MILD cams also. Hopefully the LT and exhaust work will bring this engine up to 350 HP.

But, this engine had to cost somewhere over $8,000 including any LT exhaust work. Would it have been more reasonable to put this money into a simple forged 4.6 with a SC?

I honestly wish you the best with this engine and hope you arrive at the HP you paid for. But, I will not be doing any business with MMR in my lifetime.

Glenn Ford

You are still missing the point that you are comparing crank hp numbers to wheel hp numbers :shake:

[Glenn]

Yes, I should have been clearer on the stated HP numbers. Any HP number which does not include RWHP next to it is understood to be a pure dyno number. Any dyno HP number with RWHP next to it is measured from the rear wheels. My 400 number for the forged 4.6 comparision engine did not have RWHP next to it and is therefore a pure dyno engine number (i.e. engine only no drive train). I shoud have explained the difference to avoid misunderstanding. But, also keep in mind this is a 4.6 and not a 5.3 engine. I did not include RWHP next to the 5.3 engine's 315 in my post so I can understand the confusion - my bad.

The real point in all of this discussion, is that a good member has paid good money for super built engine of questionable performance. Some thing is just not right with the engine and I sincerely hope it can be resolved. I had hoped this discussion would promote more posts around what happened to produce 315 RWHP. Perhaps it is just a tune issue and it can easily be resolved.

OK, hope that get's us back on the right track.

Glenn

[dohc324ci]

Yes, I should have been clearer on the stated HP numbers. Any HP number which does not include RWHP next to it is understood to be a pure dyno number. Any dyno HP number with RWHP next to it is measured from the rear wheels. My 400 number for the forged 4.6 comparision engine did not have RWHP next to it and is therefore a pure dyno engine number (i.e. engine only no drive train). I shoud have explained the difference to avoid misunderstanding. But, also keep in mind this is a 4.6 and not a 5.3 engine. I did not include RWHP next to the 5.3 engine's 315 in my post so I can understand the confusion - my bad.

The real point in all of this discussion, is that a good member has paid good money for super built engine of questionable performance. Some thing is just not right with the engine and I sincerely hope it can be resolved. I had hoped this discussion would promote more posts around what happened to produce 315 RWHP. Perhaps it is just a tune issue and it can easily be resolved.

OK, hope that get's us back on the right track.

Glenn

Hey Glenn just for comparison sake, if we translate my rwhp/rwtq to engine numbers at .22 it would be 384HP/436TQ.

The rwhp/rwtq numbers are with all the OEM exhaust manifolds, pipes and weld in flowmasters. This motor was never intended to be an NA BEAST. It was intended to be very stout NA with full intentions of being blown. Thats the sacrifice I made. If I had decided to go NA I would have chose the FR500 Cams, raised the CR to 11.5:1 heck even 12.1:1.

Also, this motor is designed to be able to hold 850rwhp or 1000hp at the crank. In other words built with boost in mind. With me being in Cali and dealing with CARB Paxton 1200SL /Vortech S-Trim are my only choice for blowers. Those blowers only support up to 775rwhp.

The search now begins for freeing up more HP held back by my stock exhaust manifolds and exhaust. I think I can do FRPP shorty headers, Magnaflow catted x-pipe and 2.5" pipes with muffler of choice. From what I know as long as all cats are in place it will pass visuals. I just have to find a reputable shop.

[babbage]

^^ Agree. A built engine with a LOW compression ratio isn't going to make as much HP as a High compression ratio engine. Also Glenn did your massaged engine on the engine dyno have 15 plus feet of full factory exhaust or *only* shorties? I think it's a poor comparison to use for anything really.

Bcastro: congrats on the new engine. It sounds very good to me, having all of that torque must really make her lurch now. Free up your exhaust and get your blower and you'll have plenty.

[merc]

Hey Glenn just for comparison sake, if we translate my rwhp/rwtq to engine numbers at .22 it would be 384HP/436TQ.

If I had decided to go NA I would have chose the FR500 Cams, raised the CR to 11.5:1 heck even 12.1:1.



With 50 cc heads and flat pistons you would max out a 10.5.1

[dohc324ci]

With 50 cc heads and flat pistons you would max out a 10.5.1

Are you sure? Modular Performance has built 5.3 BBS motors with 11:5.1 and 12:1cr. I'll have to check but corral.net has a list of HP/TQ SAE numbers with members mods, cr etc. The one that comes to mind is one of our previous vendors here Carlos Nazty Performance had a Cobra all NA making 537rwhp on a MP big bore FR500 H/C/Nazty Intake with 11.7:1cr I think (dyno, vid provided). Look up stang32v on corral.net for reference.

[Glenn]

DOHC:

You have handled these posts very well and in a most civil manner. I wish you the best with your engine. Keep us informed on how you are doing.

Good Luck,

Glenn Ford

[offroadkarter]

yeah? you know of a 4.6 marauder with boltons running 315whp and 357rwtq?


I know of plenty on this site with 300rwhp and a stock long block... If your going to make a big **** over 15rwhp have fun.

I'm sorry but those numbers are way unacceptable for a 5.3L 32v... Even with stock cams and exhaust manifolds.



I hope once the motor is broken in, it shows better numbers...

[Pops]

I had the HP in my old motor but never found that kind of torque. Something is working right! Bet it could lay down a pretty good number at the track if it will hook up!:)

[dohc324ci]

DOHC:

You have handled these posts very well and in a most civil manner. I wish you the best with your engine. Keep us informed on how you are doing.

Good Luck,

Glenn Ford

Hey Glenn thanks for you input man.

Am I disappointed in the number yeah 315rwhp bites. But 357rwtq is good. I will go for low hanging fruit (exhaust) to free up some HP. Stay NA then blown down the road (wife will kill me if too soon LOL).

Would I recommend a member to go this route...depends...if motor is good my 2 cents:



400-450 - Stay stock internals add blower of choice



If members are looking for 500-600rwhp or less then no. Better to get a stroker assembly with forged internals of your choice then add blower of choice.You can even get a built stroker short block for under 3k



Or do what another member (Rich) did and get yourself a Aluminator NA longblock (supports 700 at the crank) and power adder of choice.



I would only suggest this route if you are planning big power 650rwhp+ or if you have a sickness like me and want to over engineer stuff...

With that said if I had a chance to do it over; built stroker shortblock 850 5.0 re use existing heads no head work, no cam, no intake work and DR Vortech I would be in the high 400s to low to mid 500s and be at the same price point or little more and blown today...LOL

Remember we are all playing a risk reward game here...I just wont see my fruits full potential until blown....12lbs:D

[RacerX]

What was the A/F ratio for the dyno? She's still tight too. You need to loosen that engine up a little more! ;) You have all four cats/totally stock exhaust too?

[RR|Suki]

I know of plenty on this site with 300rwhp and a stock long block... If your going to make a big **** over 15rwhp have fun.

I'm sorry but those numbers are way unacceptable for a 5.3L 32v... Even with stock cams and exhaust manifolds.



I hope once the motor is broken in, it shows better numbers...

That's the problem with saying things but not actually knowing anything... did you see the tq numbers? I dunno how you know what's acceptable for a built motor with stock exhaust, especially with an increase in displacement... you don't even know how the alt. works

[dohc324ci]

What was the A/F ratio for the dyno? She's still tight too. You need to loosen that engine up a little more! ;) You have all four cats/totally stock exhaust too?

12.8 a/f and all cats stock everything except weld in Flowmaster 2 chambers.

[offroadkarter]

That's the problem with saying things but not actually knowing anything... did you see the tq numbers? I dunno how you know what's acceptable for a built motor with stock exhaust, especially with an increase in displacement... you don't even know how the alt. works


Yes i saw the torque numbers, I would hope a 5.3 stroker could put out some torque...



The alternator goes woo woo, i know how it works...:rolleyes:

[RacerX]

You're using kerosene right? :D You use 91 octane, is the tune for 91? 39lb injs... try leaning it out like someone already said... Was that a new SCT BA3000? I wonder what the xfer funtion on that is like..

[dohc324ci]

Yes i saw the torque numbers, I would hope a 5.3 stroker could put out some torque...



The alternator goes woo woo, i know how it works...:rolleyes:

Easy fellas...it aint that deep...LOL Offroad I hear you man believe me. But do any of those NA 300+ 4.6 motors support 1000hp? She was built for boost and not an NA Monster. I believe when I have some miles on her and exhaust setup and re tuned I should be around 340-350rwhp/370-380rwtq.


You're using kerosene right? :D You use 91 octane, is the tune for 91? 39lb inj... try leaning it out like someone already said...

yeah 91. was leaned out until she pinged and was backed down.

[RacerX]

yeah 91. was leaned out until she pinged and was backed down.
CRAP! :( You're just going to have to beat the piss outa her then. :D

[FordNut]

NA, stock exhaust, and 91 octane. I think it's doing pretty good.

[offroadkarter]

Easy fellas...it aint that deep...LOL Offroad I hear you man believe me. But do any of those NA 300+ 4.6 motors support 1000hp? She was built for boost and not an NA Monster. I believe when I have some miles on her and exhaust setup and re tuned I should be around 340-350rwhp/370-380rwtq.




I give you full credit for dropping in a 5.3L, I'm just agreeing with your thread on SVTP that maybe the numbers are alittle low... But, once its broken in im sure it will be abit more satisfying... I'm sure the heavier rotating assembly isnt helping while its N/A either...


Just drop a whipple 4.0L on it already and put that 1000hp capable motor to good use :D

http://www.lethalperformance.com/images/medium/WK-200240B_MED.jpg

[dohc324ci]

I give you full credit for dropping in a 5.3L, I'm just agreeing with your thread on SVTP that maybe the numbers are alittle low... But, once its broken in im sure it will be abit more satisfying... I'm sure the heavier rotating assembly isnt helping while its N/A either...


Just drop a whipple 4.0L on it already and put that 1000hp capable motor to good use :D

http://www.lethalperformance.com/images/medium/WK-200240B_MED.jpg

OMG BECKY....LOL I think I will leave that one up to FORDNUT....time to turn in the ole 3.4??? I'll have to be satisfied with around 580-600rwhp...:D

[FordNut]

No need here. On the 3.4L I have a standard 3.5" blower pulley and 6.55" underdrive crank pulley on mine right now. Running at the very low end of the operating range, only 16-18 lb boost. It's capable of around 30 lb.

[ludwigvan968]

I think people are missing the point on your build dohc324ci. No worries, I think you know what you are doing, if others don't understand they will when you are putting down some serious rwhp when you go blown.

With my car I am in the opposite situation. I have a built block waiting to be put together and a turbo system ready for 650rwhp running on a non-pi motor with 178,000 miles. I am making 300rwhp and 400ftlbs at 7psi. So it sounds like we are in a similar situation.

Hey when we aren't made out of money one has to come before the other, you chose the motor I chose the turbo and we make around the same power, until we do the other upgrade others will talk about how we can make so much more power then we are making. People will tell me to turn up the boost, people will tell you to run a higher compression, race gas, funny gas and more fuel.

BTW, you shouldn't be able to be peel out with that much power if you have a serious enough suspension. My car has just started spinning heavily now that my tires are at their wear bars.

I wish you luck with your long term build, I know how it goes... :)

[dohc324ci]

Hey Lud that build sounds like the ultimate sleeper; now one will ever know what hit em eh? What cams are you going with? So your running a non PI intake? That's where the HP restriction is swap that (lots of aftermarket intakes out there) and puts some turbo cams in...ah only if we were made of money...LOL

I am just now talking to shops about my exhaust and a few shop I spoke to have said the state is cracking down big time. One shop reported video cameras installed for the cats (now have to have EO#) and one for the tailpipe before testing! So even if I use my buddy I dont know for how long with all of these new regulations in this state. So I am going with the FRPP Shorties, Magnaflow Catted x pipe and 2.5" to the tailpipe. I may just do some off road pipes now and have my cats setup to bolt in for smog...heck even thinking about electric cut outs. Still flushing out stuff....bites.

BTW, I found a tuner in Santa Rosa CA, (dynotuning.com) that has done a Trilogy first and second gen; built motors and trannys for them. Big deal you say...NorCal has very few shops that have worked on Marauders and knowing how to tune these cars is the most important aspect of getting your desired power levels safely.

Yeah this is a long term project due to funds and my new Mustang she needs mods too:)

Cheers!

[Glenn]

Nice update on your MM. The exhaust system you described will be good for your limitations in CA. But, 2 1/2" pipes after the mufflers will not gain you that much for the price. I would do the shorties with the Magnaflow Cobra hi-flow X-pipes (rear CATS deleted) with your choice of mufflers and get a good tune. Your numbers should jump significantly.

Many members do not realize what a good 2 1/2" X-pipe this Cobra unit is. The rears CAT deleted with the hi-flow front CATS make for a hi-flow total unit. Also, the X-pipe contributes to a nice low rumble exhaust tone even with the OEM mufflers, tail pipes and tips.

Glenn :burnout:

[dohc324ci]

Nice update on your MM. The exhaust system you described will be good for your limitations in CA. But, 2 1/2" pipes after the mufflers will not gain you that much for the price. I would do the shorties and Cobra hi-flow X-pipes (rear CATS deleted) with your choice of mufflers and get a good tune. Your numbers should jump significantly.

Glenn :burnout:

Hey Glenn thats what I thought too; one shop said yes gains the other said not until after 500hp...so debatable. Depends on price. The shop I am going to use is recommending I re use my Flowmasters (opening the inlets to 2.5") and meg pipes (same) to save on dollars. Keep you all in the loop.

Before I do all that I am going to put this on the dyno to get real baseline numbers; the shop that did the install has never sent me the dyno (no response from email and phone call) so I done with them.

Cheers!

[FordNut]

2-1/2" pipes after the mufflers is a waste of $$$.

[dohc324ci]

2-1/2" pipes after the mufflers is a waste of $$$.

Brian good call.

Went ahead and got the Magnaflow X Pipe installed on the Marauder. Sounds deeper; I like the tone. Quieter on idle imo $100 for Magnaflow X pipe and install. I also got the FRPP X Pipe/GTA Axleback installed on the Mustang GT. Overall a good day...LOL

[dohc324ci]

[quote=dohc324ci;840498]Brian good call.

Went ahead and got the Magnaflow X Pipe installed on the Marauder. Sounds deeper; I like the tone. Quieter on idle imo $100 for Magnaflow X pipe and install. I also got the FRPP X Pipe/GTA Axleback installed on the Mustang GT. Overall a good day...I need to go back to work I keep spending money when I have time on my hands...LOL

Marauder Magnaflow X Pipe:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=78&pictureid=597

2006 Mustang GT FRPP X Pipe:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=88&pictureid=598

[Glenn]

Is that the Magnaflow #93335 Cobra X-pipe you have in the picture. It looks like you fabed an X-pipe together from pieces. So you did install the FRPP shorty headers - cermanic?

When will you go for a retune? :confused:

Direct Fit Catalytic Converter
FORD MUSTANG Direct Fit Catalytic Converter
http://images.magnaflow.com/02product/parts/93335.jpg
http://www.magnaflow.com/images/enlarge.jpg (http://images.magnaflow.com/02product/parts/93335_lg.jpg)

PART #:


93335
DESCRIPTION:


V8 4.6L GAS; Off Road Use Only, w/o Conv.


Crossover Pipe;2.5 in. Tubing; Tru-X Assembly with Converters
CHECK INVENTORY:


Check Availability (http://javascript<b></b>:launchCheckInventoryPopup('93 335','');)

Glenn Ford :burnout:

[bawazir]

big stroker would do fine

[dohc324ci]

Is that the Magnaflow #93335 Cobra X-pipe you have in the picture. It looks like you fabed an X-pipe together from pieces. So you did install the FRPP shorty headers - cermanic?

When will you go for a retune? :confused:

Direct Fit Catalytic Converter
FORD MUSTANG Direct Fit Catalytic Converter
http://images.magnaflow.com/02product/parts/93335.jpg
http://www.magnaflow.com/images/enlarge.jpg (http://images.magnaflow.com/02product/parts/93335_lg.jpg)

PART #:


93335
DESCRIPTION:


V8 4.6L GAS; Off Road Use Only, w/o Conv.


Crossover Pipe;2.5 in. Tubing; Tru-X Assembly with Converters
CHECK INVENTORY:


Check Availability (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:launchCheckInventoryPopup %28%2793335%27,%27%27%29;)

Glenn Ford :burnout:

Hey Glenn its Magnaflows universal 2.5" X Pipe. The off road catted version would fail the visual. California now requires all aftermarket/oem replacement cats to have an EO# (passed in 09 now being enforced). When I get the Shortie headers I am going to have them re pipe 2.5" (they have to anyway because the angles are different so i am told) after the cats to the mufflers then leave the stock setup.

[na svt]

Something is just not right with all the mods you did to the engine. :confused: Don't let anyone kid you - it's not the cams.The GT cams have only 10 degrees more duration than the stock marauder cams, but the engine has 42 ci more than the the stock. With that, the engine is under cammed greatly, even for FI. I don't recommend the GT cams for any 4.6s, let alone the larger 5.3s.


yeah? you know of a 4.6 marauder with boltons running 315whp and 357rwtq?This isn't a a bolt on 4.6.


With 50 cc heads and flat pistons you would max out a 10.5.1 a flat top piston'd 4.6 comes out to 10.5 to 1 comp, a bb/stroker is in the low 12s with flat tops.


Are you sure? Modular Performance has built 5.3 BBS motors with 11:5.1 and 12:1cr. I'll have to check but corral.net has a list of HP/TQ SAE numbers with members mods, cr etc. The one that comes to mind is one of our previous vendors here Carlos Nazty Performance had a Cobra all NA making 537rwhp on a MP big bore FR500 H/C/Nazty Intake with 11.7:1cr I think (dyno, vid provided).
Carlos's 537rwhp engine had Livernois heads, a FR500 intake ported by a Ford GT race team, compression in the high 12s, a Sullivan intake, and Bullet custom grinds (spec'd by John T.) His mid 450 rwhp BB/Stroker had lower compression, owner ported heads, sullivan intake and Hitech Motorsport cams. He also had a BB FR500 HCI engine tha made 459rwhp but the dyno was not a dynojet and it was tuned on 96 octane.

I think people are missing the point on your build dohc324ci. No worries, I think you know what you are doing, if others don't understand they will when you are putting down some serious rwhp when you go blown.
Bolting on FI won't fix the problem of low power...if it exists. This combo as it sits will make good pre-boost power/tq and make for a great driver. However, the combo should be maximized in it's current form before bolting on FI.

We have an automatic cobra at 334rwhp/3331rwtq on 93 octane. It's a flat top piston'd 4.6 with a ported stock runner length intake, FR500 cams (212deg int dur), ported heads, and long tubes. So, with 43 CIs less, similar intake manifold, heads, compression and 16 degrees more intake duration this engine made 15 more hp.

So, what's causing the 5.3s power to be at 315? Is it the 91 octane fuel, stock exhaust components or very mild cams? IMO it's all of the above. The fuel cannot be changed, some of the exhaust components can be swapped out and the cams, well they can be changed but at a cost.

A BB/Stroker with longer than stock duration cams can and will pass CA emissions, it's larger cubes allow it to happen.

[Glenn]

There are issues holding back the full potential of this stroker engine. I am sure they will be sorted out in the near future. It probably is mainly the tune and poor gas, but could be other things. The cams are not holding back this engine unless they are not indexed properly. Could better cams add more HP, sure they could, but the current cams are not the issue here resulting in 315 HP.

Glenn Ford

[LANDY]

remember, you are comparing the rwhp of a mustang against a marauder, the drivetrain on both cars suck different amounts of hp from the crank to the wheels

[FordNut]

I really think it's making about the power it should be making. If it's that low, then mine was really low too when it was NA.

His: 91 octane, stock exhaust, GT cams, 10:1 cr, ported heads, 315 hp
Mine: 93 octane, Kooks headers & full 2.5" exhaust, Comp 258 cams (custom indexed), 9.5:1 cr, ported heads AND oversize valves, 360 hp

His cams are a little milder than mine but neither are really aggressive. I believe the lower octane/max usable timing and stock exhaust would easily eat up 30-40 hp and the different cams another 10 or so as well as 10 or more from the standard size valves vs my oversize ones.

[ImpalaSlayer]

There are issues holding back the full potential of this stroker engine. I am sure they will be sorted out in the near future. It probably is mainly the tune and poor gas, but could be other things. The cams are not holding back this engine unless they are not indexed properly. Could better cams add more HP, sure they could, but the current cams are not the issue here resulting in 315 HP.

Glenn Ford


i know what it is! it doesnt have cobra shorties!!!!


see bcastro, thats all you need is a pair of shorties and then you will make huge power!

[FordNut]

i know what it is! it doesnt have cobra shorties!!!!


see bcastro, thats all you need is a pair of shorties and then you will make huge power!

Actually they would probably help a bit. They're certainly better than the stock manifolds.

[ImpalaSlayer]

Actually they would probably help a bit. They're certainly better than the stock manifolds.


no doubt there, just busting Glenns balls

[na svt]

There are issues holding back the full potential of this stroker engine. I am sure they will be sorted out in the near future. It probably is mainly the tune and poor gas, but could be other things. The cams are not holding back this engine unless they are not indexed properly. Could better cams add more HP, sure they could, but the current cams are not the issue here resulting in 315 HP.Glenn Ford
I agree, it should make 315 with stock cams. I recommended he do a compression check to ensure the cams are at least at the same LC on each bank.

remember, you are comparing the rwhp of a mustang against a marauder, the drivetrain on both cars suck different amounts of hp from the crank to the wheels
The mustang has an automatic trans from a maruader therefore the comparison is valid.

I really think it's making about the power it should be making. If it's that low, then mine was really low too when it was NA.

His: 91 octane, stock exhaust, GT cams, 10:1 cr, ported heads, 315 hp
Mine: 93 octane, Kooks headers & full 2.5" exhaust, Comp 258 cams (custom indexed), 9.5:1 cr, ported heads AND oversize valves, 360 hp

His cams are a little milder than mine but neither are really aggressive. I believe the lower octane/max usable timing and stock exhaust would easily eat up 30-40 hp and the different cams another 10 or so as well as 10 or more from the standard size valves vs my oversize ones.
His cams are very mild (the word aggressive and GT cams can't even be used in the same sentence); they have less duration than 99/01 and 96-98 cobra cams and 28 degrees less duration than the cams you had. In comparison, the lowest duration Comps have 24 degrees more duration.

Oversize valves are worth very little power with very low duration cams. In this case they are worth very little, especially with a stock intake manifold that will killing power at 6200 regardless of the duration of the cams.

I have to admit that I'm not that familiar with the stock Marauder exhaust, but my friends car was used by StainlessWorks to develop their headers and full exhaust and it didn't pick up close to even 30rwhp. I can see a gain of 30rwhp if the car was untuned before the headers, but not if it was tuned prior. Then again, the added airflow requirements of the extra cubes may result in a larger gain once headers are added.

With the increased airflow requirement of the larger engine his intake cams should be at an LC no higher than 110 for FI and 108 for n/a. I've seen hp/tq gains on larger cube engines to be as high as 20/20 by lowering the intake LC drastically. A lot of builders are scared to do this, but the racers are not and know the benefits of doing so.

I would love to see a dyno sheet for this engine.

[FordNut]

Just sayin' if he had better cams, headers, better flowing exhaust, 93 octane gas he could pick up about 50 more hp. That would be about the same setup I had and about the same power I was making when I was NA. So it's about the right power output considering his setup.

[na svt]

Just sayin' if he had better cams, headers, better flowing exhaust, 93 octane gas he could pick up about 50 more hp. That would be about the same setup I had and about the same power I was making when I was NA. So it's about the right power output considering his setup.

I agree. The only thing I'm not sold on is long tubes and off-road X providing a 30-40rwhp gain.

Was yours a 5.3?

[RR|Suki]

I agree. The only thing I'm not sold on is long tubes and off-road X providing a 30-40rwhp gain.

Was yours a 5.3?

I hear that so much, yet I gained tons of power with LTs, go figure.

[dohc324ci]

I agree, it should make 315 with stock cams. I recommended he do a compression check to ensure the cams are at least at the same LC on each bank.

The mustang has an automatic trans from a maruader therefore the comparison is valid.

His cams are very mild (the word aggressive and GT cams can't even be used in the same sentence); they have less duration than 99/01 and 96-98 cobra cams and 28 degrees less duration than the cams you had. In comparison, the lowest duration Comps have 24 degrees more duration.

Oversize valves are worth very little power with very low duration cams. In this case they are worth very little, especially with a stock intake manifold that will killing power at 6200 regardless of the duration of the cams.

I have to admit that I'm not that familiar with the stock Marauder exhaust, but my friends car was used by StainlessWorks to develop their headers and full exhaust and it didn't pick up close to even 30rwhp. I can see a gain of 30rwhp if the car was untuned before the headers, but not if it was tuned prior. Then again, the added airflow requirements of the extra cubes may result in a larger gain once headers are added.

With the increased airflow requirement of the larger engine his intake cams should be at an LC no higher than 110 for FI and 108 for n/a. I've seen hp/tq gains on larger cube engines to be as high as 20/20 by lowering the intake LC drastically. A lot of builders are scared to do this, but the racers are not and know the benefits of doing so.

I would love to see a dyno sheet for this engine.

What's going on Todd! Man you need to help me pay for swapping out the GT40 CAMs LOL. I am still trying to decide which shop I am taking her to next to sort the tune. Only 2 reputable shops in NorCal and both over 2 hrs away from me. I am planning on Shorties, then having it re tuned.

[na svt]

What's going on Todd! Man you need to help me pay for swapping out the GT40 CAMs LOL. I am still trying to decide which shop I am taking her to next to sort the tune. Only 2 reputable shops in NorCal and both over 2 hrs away from me. I am planning on Shorties, then having it re tuned.
Bring to Ohio and I'll hook ya up. I have a dyno three miles from the house and another , Mod Depot, about 50 miles away.

So, about that compression check.

[dohc324ci]

Bring to Ohio and I'll hook ya up. I have a dyno three miles from the house and another , Mod Depot, about 50 miles away.

So, about that compression check.

When I take it for a tune I'll have them do the cr check. I am still trying to determine which shop. On the plus side one of them (http://dynotuning.com) has already done a couple Marauders (built engine, built trans, tune and Trilogy SC). On another note are you offering the PSRI still? Carlos was a vendor here look up the threads (yikes). Some may be interested on the board on your opinion on the PSRI on the Marauders.

[FordNut]

What's going on Todd! Man you need to help me pay for swapping out the GT40 CAMs LOL. I am still trying to decide which shop I am taking her to next to sort the tune. Only 2 reputable shops in NorCal and both over 2 hrs away from me. I am planning on Shorties, then having it re tuned.

I'm considering a cam upgrade, my old ones would be considerably better than what you've got now.

[na svt]

When I take it for a tune I'll have them do the cr check. I am still trying to determine which shop. On the plus side one of them (http://dynotuning.com) has already done a couple Marauders (built engine, built trans, tune and Trilogy SC). On another note are you offering the PSRI still? Carlos was a vendor here look up the threads (yikes). Some may be interested on the board on your opinion on the PSRI on the Marauders.
I'm still making short runners and the regular ported intakes. There's a thread over on SVTP about one of his intakes. The bottom has been removed and it's not pretty inside.

[Roy]

With stock exhaust and cams and thru an auto 315 really aint too bad. Cams are HUGE with these motors.

[Glenn]

This thread has offically been hi-jacked === :argue:

One more comment on Shorties and I will not comment on them further (unless asked). :eek:

When a LT SC owner runs better then 11.80 versus my very mildly modded MM with shorties, I will then consider their comments valid. Until then, LT just don't cut it for my 443 HP range engine. Track results in my book are what count - the real world not dyno HP numbers. I get more torque off the line with shorties and that's where I get my times. 11.80 says it all, no further discussion is needed.

OK, http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/gatlin.gif

Glenn Ford :burnout:

[FordNut]

This thread has offically been hi-jacked === :argue:

One more comment on Shorties and I will not comment on them further (unless asked). :eek:

When a LT SC owner runs better then 11.80 versus my very mildly modded MM with shorties, I will then consider their comments valid. Until then, LT just don't cut it for my 443 HP range engine. Track results in my book are what count - the real world not dyno HP numbers. I get more torque off the line with shorties and that's where I get my times. 11.80 says it all, no further discussion is needed.

OK, http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/gatlin.gif

Glenn Ford :burnout:

Glenn, the harder you try to push them the more most people will resist. The big push by BillyGMan turned me off to the Trilogy kit for a long, long time.

[RR|Suki]

This thread has offically been hi-jacked === :argue:

One more comment on Shorties and I will not comment on them further (unless asked). :eek:

When a LT SC owner runs better then 11.80 versus my very mildly modded MM with shorties, I will then consider their comments valid. Until then, LT just don't cut it for my 443 HP range engine. Track results in my book are what count - the real world not dyno HP numbers. I get more torque off the line with shorties and that's where I get my times. 11.80 says it all, no further discussion is needed.

OK, http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/gatlin.gif

Glenn Ford :burnout:

So your position is that you ran 11.8@117 with the same tune and mods that you made 443hp with...

[RR|Suki]

No comment? You talk a lot about not needing LTs but you know, something tells me your times have more to do with running a race gas tune and a 2-step more than anything else... So really, trying to pass off that you are making your times on 440whp is pretty inaccurate... but I suppose that's about par for your posts. Maybe if you had LTs you wouldn't need the race gas tune to go fast ;)

[offroadkarter]

Glenn are you aware that cheeseheadbobs car with kooks LT's and a full exhaust ran an 11.7?

that's faster than yours, and with LT's...


Just putting it out there

[RR|Suki]

Glenn are you aware that cheeseheadbobs car with kooks LT's and a full exhaust ran an 11.7?

that's faster than yours, and with LT's...


Just putting it out there

Every car ahead of him on the page runs LTs either way

[offroadkarter]

Every car ahead of him on the page runs LTs either way



But if they ran shorties, they'd be even farther ahead... right?

[burt ragio]

Help me out what does mean LC I would check the LC on the heads right & left side ?

[Glenn]

Glenn, the harder you try to push them the more most people will resist. The big push by BillyGMan turned me off to the Trilogy kit for a long, long time.


I am not pushing shorties - I have repeatedly evaluated the pros and cons of both systems in many posts including professional dynos. Shorties are an option - but many people consider LTs as the only possible header for a MM without discussing the merits of both systems. What really is funny are people with SCs running LTs and run mid to high 12s and insist the shorties have no merit.

Glenn Ford :argue:

[Joe Walsh]

I am not pushing shorties - I have repeatedly evaluated the pros and cons of both systems in many posts including professional dynos. Shorties are an option - but many people consider LTs as the only possible header for a MM without discussing the merits of both systems. What really is funny are people with SCs running LTs and run mid to high 12s and insist the shorties have no merit.

Glenn Ford :argue:

I'm running LTs and I run high 12s....N/A.

Just felt like braggin'.....:D

Bang for the buck, shorties are probably a better value.
I like to do everything overkill so LTs were my only choice!

[ImpalaSlayer]

I am not pushing shorties - I have repeatedly evaluated the pros and cons of both systems in many posts including professional dynos. Shorties are an option - but many people consider LTs as the only possible header for a MM without discussing the merits of both systems. What really is funny are people with SCs running LTs and run mid to high 12s and insist the shorties have no merit.

Glenn Ford :argue:

wow your funny. ive had my car blown for what 3 months? i ran it on street tires with a 2.4 60 foot. id say my times are pretty good. give me a set of sticky tires and ill be knockin on your door. i think your just worried for the day when i sit higher in the timeslips page then you and i can say LTs ARE faster. i dont recall ever saying shorties have no merit. they are indeed a better option over stock manifolds by any means, im sure they are also easier to install and also im sure its easyer to put the starter in with them. but the fact is you WILL be leaving some hp on the table with shorties.

[RR|Suki]

wow your funny. ive had my car blown for what 3 months? i ran it on street tires with a 2.4 60 foot. id say my times are pretty good. give me a set of sticky tires and ill be knockin on your door. i think your just worried for the day when i sit higher in the timeslips page then you and i can say LTs ARE faster. i dont recall ever saying shorties have no merit. they are indeed a better option over stock manifolds by any means, im sure they are also easier to install and also im sure its easyer to put the starter in with them. but the fact is you WILL be leaving some hp on the table with shorties.

Don't even bother, he's full of it. He runs a race gas tune and a 2-step and prob more pulley than you too and compares the two times, it's simply silly.

[RacerX]

Hey Brian! What oil pressure are you running at between idle and WOT with the upgraded MMR oil pump?

[FordNut]

Hey Brian! What oil pressure are you running at between idle and WOT with the upgraded MMR oil pump?

I got rid of the MMR pump last rebuild, using a Melling which came with billet gears. Runs about the same pressure as the MMR did though.

Hot weather, warm engine idles about 15 psi. WOT gets close to 100 psi. I think, not sure because I can't watch the gauges when I open it up 'cause the stripes turn solid really quick, gotta watch the road.

Cold weather, cold engine, fast idle is about 70 psi.

[Phrog_gunner]

I'm running LTs and I run high 12s....N/A.

Just felt like braggin'.....:D

I thought 12's N/A was never going to happen??

[Joe Walsh]

I thought 12's N/A was never going to happen??

That 'contest' is for an internally stock 4.6 liter engine.

[Pops]

That 'contest' is for an internally stock 4.6 liter engine.

:D:D:D:bows::bows::bows::lol:

[FordNut]

I thought 12's N/A was never going to happen??


That 'contest' is for an internally stock 4.6 liter engine.

Yeah, I've been there too. But it doesn't count with my 5.3 L

[Phrog_gunner]

That 'contest' is for an internally stock 4.6 liter engine.

A S/C is approx $6k......If you bought every bolt on in the book would it even come close to that amount??

[FordNut]

A S/C is approx $6k......If you bought every bolt on in the book would it even come close to that amount??

Close, but it still wouldn't get into the 12's.

[Phrog_gunner]

Close, but it still wouldn't get into the 12's.

I def agree, it just seemed kind of rigged to me so noone has to pay out. I mean if its going to be a contest, of blown vs N/A, why can't someone spend the same amount on internals or bolt-ons. It's like saying "I'll drag race you straight up, but only if your 3 legged golden retriever is driving".

So apparently I've been lying all this time saying my small block is N/A, when it has an aftermarket cam in it.

[Glenn]

You know it is really funny how people who can't run decent SC times have got to put down people who take the sport serious and run some good times on a limited budget with stock internal engines. When you run 11.7s your comments will not be taken as pure :bs:. That day will never come.

Glenn Ford :burnout:

PS: Merc ran his times on Shorties.

[Joe Walsh]

I def agree, it just seemed kind of rigged to me so noone has to pay out. I mean if its going to be a contest, of blown vs N/A, why can't someone spend the same amount on internals or bolt-ons. It's like saying "I'll drag race you straight up, but only if your 3 legged golden retriever is driving".

So apparently I've been lying all this time saying my small block is N/A, when it has an aftermarket cam in it.

You can have an aftermarket cam and any other host of mods and still be N/A.
It just can't have a "power adder".....S/C or Nitrous.

The 12 second N/A "bet it can't be done" threads on this board were in regards to a stock internal, stock cam, stock displacement DOHC engine in a Marauder going 12s. Any other bolt-ons/mods were acceptable for the 'contest'.
It might be possible, but it is going to take a lot of rear gear and a LOT of rpm...which you can't get with the stock cams.

[Phrog_gunner]

You can have an aftermarket cam and any other host of mods and still be N/A.
It just can't have a "power adder".....S/C or Nitrous.

That was my point, I was just curious to the purpose of a contest that seems to be rigged to be impossible by making the only means of its accomplishment off limits.

Apparently I was just distracted by the misnomer of "N/A" in the contest. :confused:

[Pops]

I think that changing cams would help but the lower end would not hold up. You would need to twist the motor above 7 grand and have a lot of gear in the car. The end result would be another Microsoft Block!

[RR|Suki]

You know it is really funny how people who can't run decent SC times have got to put down people who take the sport serious and run some good times on a limited budget with stock internal engines. When you run 11.7s your comments will not be taken as pure :bs:. That day will never come.

Glenn Ford :burnout:

PS: Merc ran his times on Shorties.

When you run even an 11.99999 without a race gas tune and a 2-step your comments will taken as something other than pure :bs:. That day will never come. ;)

[Phrog_gunner]

I think that changing cams would help but the lower end would not hold up. You would need to twist the motor above 7 grand and have a lot of gear in the car. The end result would be another Microsoft Block!

So what you are trying to say is I need a Chevy if I want to make any respectable N/A power? :hide:

[Joe Walsh]

That was my point, I was just curious to the purpose of a contest that seems to be rigged to be impossible by making the only means of its accomplishment off limits.

Apparently I was just distracted by the misnomer of "N/A" in the contest. :confused:

It wasn't really rigged, those were the guidelines that developed and everyone agreed to.
Lots of (still N/A) guys wanted to see if they could run 12s "without going into the motor"....just bolt-on mods and a tune.

Prior to the 'contest' developing, Barry/Cruztaker actually got pretty close with a 13.2 on a stock engine with lots of bolt-on mods.

[Joe Walsh]

You can make some really good power with an N/A Ford 4.6 DOHC.
But in an automatic transmission Marauder, it is hauling 4,400 lbs down the track.....:(

[Phrog_gunner]

Congrats to him. I'm gonna guess that he blew the bottom out trying to get that last .3? That's too close to just stop?

[Pops]

So what you are trying to say is I need a Chevy if I want to make any respectable N/A power? :hide:

Depends on what you call respectable. My Grand Marquis went 13.51 on a Marauder motor NA on 93 octane. It was like hitting a brick wall trying to get it faster than that. Barrys car had a high octane tune in it and that did make a big difference for him. I spent way to much for the gain. Should have SC it then and would have been way faster. My suggestion is to find a comfortable ET and make it consistent as hell and go bracket racing. Now it goes 11.26 and needs more tire to make it go faster. Its still on the 93 octane tune. More power than the tires can handle so when do you quit! Thw wallet or the wife will stop it sooner or later!:eek:

[Pops]

Congrats to him. I'm gonna guess that he blew the bottom out trying to get that last .3? That's too close to just stop?

I think the spray Barry was using helped that! With the spray he was deep into the 12s.;)

[FordNut]

It wasn't really rigged, those were the guidelines that developed and everyone agreed to.
Lots of (still N/A) guys wanted to see if they could run 12s "without going into the motor"....just bolt-on mods and a tune.

Yep, it was a N/A Bolt-on contest.



Prior to the 'contest' developing, Barry/Cruztaker actually got pretty close with a 13.2 on a stock engine with lots of bolt-on mods.

I also got mine down to 13.3


Congrats to him. I'm gonna guess that he blew the bottom out trying to get that last .3? That's too close to just stop?

You run up against a brick wall there. Can't get it any faster without adding a blower or going inside the engine.

[Phrog_gunner]

You run up against a brick wall there. Can't get it any faster without adding a blower or going inside the engine.

But that was before the Naz intake. ;)

[Joe Walsh]

I also got mine down to 13.3



My bad....I always think of your Marauder as having a built S/C engine...obviously you ran the 5.3 in N/A trim for some time.

[FordNut]

I also got mine down to 13.3



My bad....I always think of your Marauder as having a built S/C engine...obviously you ran the 5.3 in N/A trim for some time.

That was before I went with the blower on the stock engine... Barry & me were neck & neck for a little while, then he went with spray and I went with the ProCharger. We both hit the 12's then.

When I put the 5.3 in for the first time it had the ProCharger but when the head gaskets started having problems I took the blower off and ran it N/A for awhile. It ran in the mid-12's N/A then.

[FordNut]

But that was before the Naz intake. ;)

That's been really impressive...

[Pops]

But that was before the Naz intake. ;)

Some were using polished and extruded honed intakes allready so i don't think Naz would have helped!

[Phrog_gunner]

Some were using polished and extruded honed intakes allready so i don't think Naz would have helped!

I was being facetious....;)

[FordNut]

Me too :rolleyes:

[dohc324ci]

Finally recieved my dyno sheet. Dyno Sheet is listed with SAE numbers. Somethings defiantly up with my tune/COP. Going to replace the COP with some Accels and resolve my P0190 issue by having another tuner write a completely new tune then have it re dyno 'ed.

Well even with a questionable tune I posted 9.01 @ 81.3 in the 8th mile.

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/dohc324ci/dynobbs.jpg?t=1263535754

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/dohc324ci/Sacramento%20Raceway%20New%20Y ears%20Day%202010/01022010.jpg?t=1263536562

[na svt]

Have you made any progress in finding the cause of your low power?

[Glenn]

I do not mean to be a wet blanket, but something is not right with your engine. I ran 289 HP NA with a tune, shorties, UDP and CAI - that's it and I had 4:10s. I realize this is an old post - hopefully you have uncovered the problem. If it was the COPs the dyno tuner would have been able to tell you. My feeling is that it is mechanically. I would contact Zack and get his opinion.

Glenn Ford

[dohc324ci]

Glenn sorry ran out of $$$ I have a paypal account you could help donate to the cause though.

Ive talked to Zack and he did send me a fix for my P0190 DTC and it appears to be my tune. I swapped the FP module out but after around 300+ miles and spirited driving the DTC code came back. Also, I haven't been able to put it on the dyno after the COPs but the SOTP on the throttle response and top end is much improved.

I am actually going to go to another tuner AED in Sacramento they are hosting a tune day for Tony Gonyon of HP Performance from Florida March 20th. He is flying to NorCal for the weekend. Anybody use him for tunes? I may have him or the AED boys do my next tune. The tuner I used when the motor was installed is "really" green. The dyno numbers are shown in SAE not STD. As for it being mechanical that may very well be the issue but until I resolve the DTC with a new tune I wont know.

[FordNut]

I agree, the issues are in the tune.

Who was it that did the current tune?

[Glenn]

This engine will scream when you get it all sorted out! It definately has 40-50 more HP in it.

Glenn Ford :beer:

[dohc324ci]

I agree, the issues are in the tune.

Who was it that did the current tune?

http://www.tpsmotorsports.com/

They are an authorized Kenne Bell/Saleen/MMR dealer installer so ??? Mechanically the are competent but SCT tuning their pretty new (couple years for the tuner). 0 experience on this platform (Marauder).

They did the install and the base tune...if you all recall I tried to pull out of there after the install and use my Lidio tune so I didnt have to pay for there inexperience but Injectors, MAF, FP so I went ahead and had them do the base tune. They are slow to respond to my concerns and my dyno sheet was retrieved by a guy (on corral.net who knows the tuner) who helps them tune when they get in a jam:mad2:3 months later. I probably could take it back but dont want to deal with them the owner offered...but ehh had enough. If you look at the dyno sheet there are obvious peaks and valleys that IMO should have been questioned but they released to me anyway. AED out of Sacramento is the most respected tuner in the area and comes highly recommended by everyone in the Mustang crowd. About the only one that has Marauder experience is dynotuning.com in Santa Rosa 2.5 hours away:mad2: He even done a couple of Trilogy installs and a couple built transmission and motors for Marauders...

[musclemerc]

Good luck with the MM B Castro, did you get to do any of the exhaust work yet?

[69428SCJ]

You know Brian, I love Shaun and Drew at AED. I do want to make you aware though that in some of my email conversations with Shaun I asked him about my MM. His response, "I've never even seen one" We'll show him if he's there for dyno day ;)

[dohc324ci]

Hey Loren, I know. One of the reasons I didn't go to them initially was they never worked on one before and there bid was twice as much as the TPS bid. In the end however they were right on point price wise....LOL live and learn! What is known is they are highly respected for their SCT tuning and engine building capabilities. Quality work is hard to find. But then again NO ONE in this area has worked on these beasts LOL. Only one Ive found is dynotunning.com in Santa Rosa but he wants me to leave with them for a week! I might even give Billy at Vendicated tuning a shot since we've been communicating back and forth about my tune and he's been pretty spot on with the diagnosis so far. Problem is he works full time at Ford Motor Co. and his shop is slammed right now.

All I can say is C R A P O L A!

[69428SCJ]

It's crazy Brian, because of the rarity of our cars it's hard to find a shop that's worked on them. Even back in Cincinnati there are three shops that do mustangs, and I've already a poor review on here about them so I don't even know what to do when it's time for mine to go to the shop!

[ImpalaSlayer]

It's crazy Brian, because of the rarity of our cars it's hard to find a shop that's worked on them. Even back in Cincinnati there are three shops that do mustangs, and I've already a poor review on here about them so I don't even know what to do when it's time for mine to go to the shop!

the guy that did mine never tuned one before mine and he knew exactly what he was doing. my tuner rocks!

[Kennyrauder]

This whole argument reminds me of the Atlas ...Delta Rocket program... Needed the Atlas C5 heavy lift Rocket for the moon. As much as we try, 4.6 & any combination thereof will not replace tomorrows new power.The new FOMOCO 5.0 will take over so I guess we should be looking to new horizons. Ain't this fun??????

[69428SCJ]

Well that's refreshing to hear Dave. I would think that a mod motor is a mod motor is a mod motor but I know they "aren't" because they have different brains...

[ImpalaSlayer]

Well that's refreshing to hear Dave. I would think that a mod motor is a mod motor is a mod motor but I know they "aren't" because they have different brains...

just as long as he takes into account the added weight of the mm you should be fine. IE not as much timing as a mustang

[dohc324ci]

Loren, our best bet is AED. I might give Billy Vendicated Tuning a shot as well. You going to hooters sunday?

[Glenn]

This whole argument reminds me of the Atlas ...Delta Rocket program... Needed the Atlas C5 heavy lift Rocket for the moon. As much as we try, 4.6 & any combination thereof will not replace tomorrows new power.The new FOMOCO 5.0 will take over so I guess we should be looking to new horizons. Ain't this fun??????

Replacing the 4.6 with the new 5.0 wil be very difficult including replacing the PCM and most of the engine wiring harness. Not as easy as it may sounds.

Glenn

[69428SCJ]

Indeed Brian, with Cobra in tow as usual

[RacerX]

Brian, it's a stroked 302 with ported heads, intake, bigger injectors, yada, yada. If aed is good, they won't see it as a marauder, but as a group of high end parts that need to all work together in harmony. I bet you see a big difference if he's as good as he sounds. GLTY! Let us know how it goes, I'll fill in what I end up with too! Woohoo!

[na svt]

Have you done anymore troubleshooting?


It's crazy Brian, because of the rarity of our cars it's hard to find a shop that's worked on them. Even back in Cincinnati there are three shops that do mustangs, and I've already a poor review on here about them so I don't even know what to do when it's time for mine to go to the shop!
You can't go wrong with Mod Depot.

This whole argument reminds me of the Atlas ...Delta Rocket program... Needed the Atlas C5 heavy lift Rocket for the moon. As much as we try, 4.6 & any combination thereof will not replace tomorrows new power.The new FOMOCO 5.0 will take over so I guess we should be looking to new horizons. Ain't this fun??????
The new 4v makes great power but IMO, the 3v is the best engien for the marauder as it provide more torque and doesn;t need to be revved to the moon to maek good n/a power. Small cube, high RPM engines and heavy automatic trans cars have never been combined in a performance package that worked well.

[musclemerc]

Have you done anymore troubleshooting?


You can't go wrong with Mod Depot.

The new 4v makes great power but IMO, the 3v is the best engien for the marauder as it provide more torque and doesn;t need to be revved to the moon to maek good n/a power. Small cube, high RPM engines and heavy automatic trans cars have never been combined in a performance package that worked well.

Welcome to MM.net NASVT!! Another legend has joined our ranks. Thanks for the info you gave me this past week and you will hear from me real soon. ;)

[dohc324ci]

Have you done anymore troubleshooting?

Hey Todd havent been able to as of yet. just the cops and fp module. I am scheduling something real soon though with Billy at vendicated to do a new tune.

The new 4v makes great power but IMO, the 3v is the best engien for the marauder as it provide more torque and doesn;t need to be revved to the moon to maek good n/a power. Small cube, high RPM engines and heavy automatic trans cars have never been combined in a performance package that worked well.

Hey Todd you need to pick up a Marauder up an do the 4.6 3v swap! I wonder if this has been done before?

Nice to hear from you bud.

Cheers!

[Glenn]

The 4.6 3Vs are mainly DBW - a great deal of work including needing the 3V PCM and wiring harness. Better off putting the extra money into a stroked 5.3.

Glenn

[69428SCJ]

You can't go wrong with Mod Depot.


I posed the question over on stangbangerz and nobody recommended them. Craig from Cincy Speed actually made one post here, and of course everyone over on sbz said they could do it. SORRY FOR HIJACKING YOUR THREAD BRIAN!!!!!

[na svt]

Actually the 6.2 2v would be the best option but I'm not sure it would be an easy install.


The 4.6 3Vs are mainly DBW - a great deal of work including needing the 3V PCM and wiring harness. Better off putting the extra money into a stroked 5.3.Glenn
Use a Marauder TB, do away with the variable cams timing and use the marauder computer and harness. I've ridden in some auto mustangs and was damn impressed with their performance. I realize the marauder is heavier, but the additional torque of the 3v would defintely help.

A 5.3 because of the added cubic inches is the easiest route to take and it's not uncommon to see make 400/400 with a stock intake in Cobra. Even if power was down to 375/375 in a Marauder it would make for an excellent driver and a quick trip down the quarter.


I posed the question over on stangbangerz and nobody recommended them. Craig from Cincy Speed actually made one post here, and of course everyone over on sbz said they could do it. SORRY FOR HIJACKING YOUR THREAD BRIAN!!!!!
Mod depot by far has the most experience in that area and have tuned pretty much everything that is powered by a mod motor.

There's a good tuner up here in Dayton if you don't mind traveling. If your car has the normal mods or is stock, a Lidio mail order tune would be a great option.

[na svt]

Any progress made yet?

[dohc324ci]

Update:

Argh.....developed a tick on the right side head (3 weeks ago or so) so took her in to Vendicated Tuning to have her checked out. Found out why my power out put was low. Upon inspection of the head:


Found this:

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/dohc324ci/IMG_0118.jpg?t=1273813501

The plug never protruded into the cylinder and should look like this:

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/dohc324ci/IMG_0119.jpg?t=1273813625

In addition to this they found a couple loose followers and a collapsed lash adjuster causing the valve train noise:bigcry: Not happy to say the least and currently working with the original installer to cover my repairs (steel insert) due to error:mad2: wrong heli coil used according to the machine shop. It could have been worse; if it weren't for the collapsed lash adjuster....:eek:

Well the good news. I sold my GT40 cams for a set of FR500 camshaft kit -w/o springs for a great price (Thanks NASVT). Going to replace all the lash adjusters, SS valves, followers (both heads) should have done this when it went out to MMR but just opted for the P&P and SS valves on heads that had 115k:o

When its all together the FR500 Cams should really go well with the ported heads/intake and net me some nice gains with the full shorty exhaust setup I am going with; not to mention the cylinder #4 firing properly! Another couple weeks away for everything to come together.

[juno]

Ouch!

Good luck with it and thankfully the damage was not worse!!!

[FordNut]

Update:

Argh.....developed a tick on the right side head (3 weeks ago or so) so took her in to Vendicated Tuning to have her checked out. Found out why my power out put was low. Upon inspection of the head:


In addition to this they found a couple loose followers and a collapsed lash adjuster causing the valve train noise:bigcry: Not happy to say the least and currently working with the original installer to cover my repairs (steel insert) due to error:mad2: wrong heli coil used according to the machine shop. It could have been worse; if it weren't for the collapsed lash adjuster....:eek:

Well the good news. I sold my GT40 cams for a set of FR500 camshaft kit -w/o springs for a great price (Thanks NASVT). Going to replace all the lash adjusters, SS valves, followers (both heads) should have done this when it went out to MMR but just opted for the P&P and SS valves on heads that had 115k:o

When its all together the FR500 Cams should really go well with the ported heads/intake and net me some nice gains with the full shorty exhaust setup I am going with; not to mention the cylinder #4 firing properly! Another couple weeks away for everything to come together.

Appears they used a regular helicoil instead of the inserts that you drive some little tabs into the threads after installation to keep them from backing out.

Curious about the porting, when I had my port job done they worked the combustion chambers and smoothed them out. They did away with the hump between the exhaust ports (see attached).

Advice: Go with OEM Ford lash adjusters. I went with supposedly better ones on my first buildup and they fell apart, so I ended up getting a new set of OEM ones.

[dohc324ci]

The FRPP FR500 camshaft kit comes with 32 int/ext ferrea ss valves & 32 followers. The lash adjusters are also Ford Oem Vendicated can get for $5 per while the machine shop quoted $10. Interesting I wonder if smoothing out that little hump would make a diffrence? Will ping the MS while it's out.

[ImpalaSlayer]

really wanting to know what your new numbers will be,

[dohc324ci]

Dave tell me about it; Ive been doing some math and without the #4 cylinder firing properly I was still able to produce 315. If you divide by 7 it works about 45hp per cylinder. So at the very least I am looking at 350-360rwhp. The full exhaust w/shorties should be good for 10-15 or so. I am also expecting gains from the FR500 cams over the GT40s maybe 10 (better na cam). I would be happy with 370-380rwhp we shall see how it all comes down.

[Joe Walsh]

Wow!
Talk about a shrouded spark plug!
Sorry to hear about the lifters, but I'm glad to see that you found the sparkplug/lame cylinder problem.
What noise was made by the lifters/followers?
I'm curious because I have some serious valvetrain clatter at 2,200 -> 3,000 rpm and I'm wondering if I dropped off a roller follower or have bad lash adjusters...:dunno:

BTW: That picture of your sparkplug is exactly why I would never use those Bosch +4 Platinum plugs.
How are you supposed to 'keep the fire lit' at 6,500 rpm with all those electrodes in the way???

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae326/JoeJWalsh/Bosch4plugs.jpg

[Glenn]

I told you it wasn't the cams, but something else mechanical or the tune. 315 HP for your engine just was not normal. I ran 298 with just a few bolt on mods. I am glad you found out what it was - good job. In my opinion, I have heard too many issues with MMR engines.

Now - finish your engine work and let's get some REAL HP numbers on this beast. It should be 370-380+ HP like you said.

Glenn

[dohc324ci]

I had a couple of loose followers and a bad lash adjuster causing this noise at all RPMs: http://s920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/dohc324ci/?action=view&current=IMG_0072.flv&newest=1 (http://s920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/dohc324ci/?action=view&current=IMG_0072.flv&newest=1)

Luckily I didnt send back to MMR because I would have been out shipping charges. I chose to keep local so I could verify myself exactly what the problems are. MMR only did the valves and P&P/valve job. The Heli coil was done at another shop that installed the motor so they would not have warrantied. BTW, some of the MMR SS over sized valves were scared and cant reuse due to poor quality or damaged by the loose followers. I am going with a matched set of FRPP FR500 cams set of followers and valves so I dont have to worry about it again.

[FordNut]

Luckily I didnt send back to MMR because I would have been out shipping charges. I chose to keep local so I could verify myself exactly what the problems are. MMR only did the valves and P&P/valve job. The Heli coil was done at another shop that installed the motor so they would not have warrantied. BTW, some of the MMR SS over sized valves were scared and cant reuse due to poor quality or damaged by the loose followers. I am going with a matched set of FRPP FR500 cams set of followers and valves so I dont have to worry about it again.

The MMR valves are crapola. I tried...

[dohc324ci]

I told you it wasn't the cams, but something else mechanical or the tune. 315 HP for your engine just was not normal. I ran 298 with just a few bolt on mods. I am glad you found out what it was - good job. In my opinion, I have heard too many issues with MMR engines.

Now - finish your engine work and let's get some REAL HP numbers on this beast. It should be 370-380+ HP like you said.

Glenn

You deserve 3 points! Because the tuner is a newb that was a "logical" assumption but the dyno chart indicated "Problems" that pointed to mechanical being one of them.

As far as MMR yes lets be clear they are a high volume engine assembler not an precision engine builder. I would recommend that if folks purchase from them have a reputable shop inspect and verify "everything". Better yet dont have them assemble and get a local builder/MS to build for you.

Their problem is quality control. They have been through 3 sales managers since I purchase and known spitting out engine builders as well. Its hit and miss with them because of this and for the amount of money your better off finding someone local to build the engine. Sure they use quality components for the most part but its the "PRECISION" part of engine building that will cost you hp/money if it isnt done right. You live and learn.

I had Vendicated Tuning pull the motor and inspect/verify and re-torque everything so I dont have to go on faith. Trust but verify. So far everything I ordered has been verified. I will know in a week or two about the rest of the motor.

[dohc324ci]

The MMR valves are crapola. I tried...

Lessoned learned.

[jdenning002]

I can't wait to take a ride in that thing...

[FordNut]

Dave tell me about it; Ive been doing some math and without the #4 cylinder firing properly I was still able to produce 315. If you divide by 7 it works about 45hp per cylinder. So at the very least I am looking at 350-360rwhp. The full exhaust w/shorties should be good for 10-15 or so. I am also expecting gains from the FR500 cams over the GT40s maybe 10 (better na cam). I would be happy with 370-380rwhp we shall see how it all comes down.


I told you it wasn't the cams, but something else mechanical or the tune. 315 HP for your engine just was not normal. I ran 298 with just a few bolt on mods. I am glad you found out what it was - good job. In my opinion, I have heard too many issues with MMR engines.

Now - finish your engine work and let's get some REAL HP numbers on this beast. It should be 370-380+ HP like you said.

Glenn

My guess: 350 hp

Remember, I made 360 with a bb/s sporting long tubes, oversize valves, ported everything, and more aggressive cams than the FR500's

[dohc324ci]

I can't wait to take a ride in that thing...
Anytime John! We need to hook up again!

[jdenning002]

Are you back on the road again bro???