Would you buy a Twin Turbo for the MM?

[Petrograde]

I'm trying to gauge the interest for turbos. I've been trading e-mails with a guy named Rad Craig from Induction Concepts near Tulsa, OK. here's our conversations: (copied here with his permission)

was wondering if Induction Concepts was planning on making a twin turbo kit for '03-'04 Mercury Marauders. The 4.6L DOHC is similar to the Cobra motor, but not exactly the same.

Thanks, Tom

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Hey Tom. We've had a couple of requests for the Marauder, but not enough to warrant development of a kit, sorry. I agree, it would make a great application.

Yes, the motors are very close, but it's the engine compartments that are different...and each of our kits is specific to the cars/engine compartment and their engines. There is so little room to work with, it must be very precise.

Rad Craig

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Thank you for the prompt reply! I was expecting Monday at the earliest! Out of curiosity, how many Marauders wanting a turbo setup would it take for you to consider developing a kit? And do you think the cost would be close to the Cobra kit?

Thanks again, Tom

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That's hard to say right now...we are building kits that we expect to sell 50+ of...or are just very profitable (Vipers). The problem is that we are a small shop, and we only work on one prototype at a time. We are trying to cover all the late model performance stuff that has a large demand like the Mustangs, Corvettes, Camaro/TA, Viper, Trucks/SUV's.

At some point when we move into a larger shop, it would be easier to work on some low-demand stuff as we'd have room to work on more than one prototype at a time and could even work on stuff after hours that wouldn't affect our normal development schedule.

I would love to see a Marauder with twins personally. But I would also like to make a profit as we have been building prototypes for the last year and that pays zero.

On the cost issue, I'm sure it would be very close to the Mustang prices as we use the same components and materials in all of our kits.

Rad...
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Wow, once again very prompt. Exactly the type of person I like to do business with.

I understand you are a growing business. Perhaps in the future, once you've moved into a bigger place you will be able to accommodate the growing Marauder community. I personally know of over a dozen supercharged Marauders. Many of us would like a different "go fast" solution.

We have a great website. www..mercurymarauder.net. Our site is very vendor-friendly. Check us out. I'm sure you'd find a lot of interest, and I'm sure you'd have no problem finding prototype cars, and subsequent customers

By the way, perhaps I should've asked your permission earlier, I posted your last e-mail reply on our board. I apologize for not asking, I wasn't thinking. If you would like I can delete that post. May I have your permission to post your last e-mail?

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Like I say all the time, I treat people like I want to be treated. When I'm excited about something, it just KILLS me to have to wait 3 days for a reply. I check my email frequently during the day while in the shop (where I'm at right now until the OU/OSU football game comes on :) ) and I am on it every night to catch up or make any replies that might require a lengthy discussion that I might not of had time for during the day.

You can post my email. We value being honest and up front with our customers, after all, we are just like you, a bunch of hot rodders that like things done the correct way. So I would never send anything to a customer or say something on the phone that I would be afraid would be posted publicly.

That's one reason why we have forums on our website, we post frequent updates, pics, info, etc. and tell the customers exactly what we are doing, the parts we are using, etc. No secrets. We like to hear feedback from the customers, after all, they are the ones buying our products. Sometimes they have really great ideas or make points we haven't considered.

I've been on that site before, when someone earlier asked about a kit for the Marauder, I believe he worked for Ford. In the future, when we get a larger facility, I would love to be able to work on the lower demand projects, just for personal interest if nothing else. I have people contacting me all the time with Riddler-award winning (or capable of) older muscle cars that they are building, like say a '67 fastback with a 32v 4.6L Cobra motor in it, I'd LOVE to do stuff like that. Someday I'll have the room to do it.

Anyway, nice talking to you, don't hesitate if you have any other questions.

Rad...


Well, what do you guys/gals think? This is definitely the type of customer service I like! I had responses to my e-mails within 20 minutes of sending them!

So, once again I ask: if Induction Concepts came up with a twin turbo set up ... would you be interested in it?

Tom

PS- check out the site here! (http://www.inductionconcepts.com/default.asp)

[Petrograde]

I have no vested interest with Induction Concepts. Except for wanting a twin turbo!

Tom

[nexstar7]

good luck with him and the turbo, i was thinking of the same application. he sounds like a nice person that will work with you or us.

[Petrograde]

I was told it would probably about the same as the '03 Cobra, which is $7500.

Tom

[bigslim]

I will stick with future supercharging plans.

[MikesMerc]

Originally posted by bigslim
I will stick with future supercharging plans.

Ditto.

I like that the Trilogy Intercooled SC. Very much an OEM feel.

[Petrograde]

Hey,.. that's cool Bigslim,

Turbocharge or to Supercharge, that is the question. lol. I know turbos have been associated with the rice crowd, but,... a turbo V-8 will always beat the $h!t out of turbo V-6! or "4 banger" for that matter!

Believe me,.. I'm a blue color class stiff, like many here. I don't have deep pockets,... yet....

Yes,.. it costs more than supercharging, a little bit more. All considered anyway.

As many of you have read I might be going overseas soon, so my pockets will get a little deeper. I personally, would like a turbocharge kit for the MM.

Pros... Cons... yup,.. they both have their ups and downs, I know. But, if you are in the market for "go-fast" goodies,.. all I ask is that you keep an open mind.

Many of us here are inclined to do business with Dennis Reinhart, .. well,. I'm one of those people too! Especially after meeting him in person and also having done business with him already... And I will again! Dennis is a good man,... period. The type of business man that cares about his customer.

I think that Induction Concepts is the type of establishment that deserves our attention too.

SergntMac,.. I would very much like to hear you input on this subject.

Thanks for listening,

Tom

[Petrograde]

SergntMac!!! please!.... "need input" your insight would be valued! Along with,.. TAF, Martyo, Mad-3R, Logan, LML, Bunny, Fat Bastid, to name just a few!

C'mon y'all,.. "throw me frickin' bone here!"

[sailsmen]

I have posted this before. I have owned a factory OEM S/c and factory OEM Turbo.

The problem with a turbo is the under hood heat fries all non metal parts. I mean every thing including the windshield washer tank.

Think about it, you are putting a big heat sink under the hood and heating it with exhaust gases!

IMHO a turbo is the equivalent of 3X the wear and tear mileage for all under hood parts.

I had no S/c related issues such as heat or vibrations that affected the life of any under hood parts.

[MitchB]

A friend of Jerry's who worked with him while he was at Ford is currently building my twin turbo 93 Thunderbird. This is based on the Incon setup that was designed for the Mustang. I have had a lot of discussion about this system and with turbocharging in general. I can tell you that the design means everything. The most important points I will touch upon are this:

It is paramount to place the turbos as close to the exhaust ports as possible. Turbos are driven by the heat energy in the exhaust. The farther downstraem they are in the exhaust, the more you will end up driving them with the pumping action of the exhaust.

Efficient intercooling is a must. If you cannot control air intake temps to within 30-40 degrees of ambient, you will give away large amounts of power.

Capable tuning is an absolute must. Many individuals have ruined their engines before they knew anything even happened.

On an unknown setup, you had better do plenty of testing to determine what fuel system will work.

For the way most Marauder owners would end up driving their cars, if you cannot design a setup that will deliver full boost (5-8 psi) by 2500 RPM or so, you may as well go with supercharging.

I have not mentioned anything about the kind of turbos that would work best whether they be ballbearing, watercooled and what the total airflow or A/R ratio should be.

If you are talking about designing a turbo system from scratch, you will need someone who has a lot of experience in this area. If you can get it to work, it will be easier on the engine as it takes approximately 50-60 RWHP to drive a supercharger at the 500 RWHP level. A turbo uses no where near as much power.

Mitch

[MitchB]

The answers to this are to put the turbos down low along the engine block and as far out of the engine compartment as possible. Use a hood that helps vent the engine compartment and use a thermal coating on the turbos and manifolds.

Mitch

I have posted this before. I have owned a factory OEM S/c and factory OEM Turbo.

The problem with a turbo is the under hood heat fries all non metal parts. I mean every thing including the windshield washer tank.

Think about it, you are putting a big heat sink under the hood and heating it with exhaust gases!

IMHO a turbo is the equivalent of 3X the wear and tear mileage for all under hood parts.

I had no S/c related issues such as heat or vibrations that affected the life of any under hood parts.

[studio460]

Petrograde:

I appreciate the research effort on the turbos, but FWIW, I for one want/need the right-off-idle, torque on-demand boost you get from a Roots-type supercharger. Plus, turbos can get pretty pricey. On the other hand, for those of you who would appreciate the top-end horsies that turbos promise to provide--it's nice to have another power-adder option, ain't it?

[sailsmen]

Good points on the heat. You are right I believe the heat issues can be addressed.

I just find it amazing that on several Japanese and a Swedish car with the transverse engines the turbo is placed right next to the radiator.