Air Travel?

[FordNut]

Anybody taken a flight lately? Since the Christmas terrorist attempt? How bad were the heightened security measures?

So how does this crap happen? He paid CASH for a ONE WAY TICKET and has NO LUGGAGE. Any two of those should get you an extra security check, but all three? And then they didn't even do a cross-check to find that he was already on one of the watch lists? WTF is wrong with the morons in charge of Homeland Security? Then the first comments from Napolitano were how succesful the security measures were. Geez, I'll give my vote of confidence...

[fastblackmerc]

Anybody taken a flight lately? Since the Christmas terrorist attempt? How bad were the heightened security measures?

So how does this crap happen? He paid CASH for a ONE WAY TICKET and has NO LUGGAGE. Any two of those should get you an extra security check, but all three? And then they didn't even do a cross-check to find that he was already on one of the watch lists? WTF is wrong with the morons in charge of Homeland Security? Then the first comments from Napolitano were how succesful the security measures were. Geez, I'll give my vote of confidence...

From what I've heard flying in or out of the U.S.A. isn't bad, it's coming back in that's a pain.

[ImpalaSlayer]

ill be going to NM next month, i hope its not a pain, airports suck

[SC Cheesehead]

I've got three solid months of travel after I get back to work in January.

Guaranteed PITA.

Don't even ask me what I think needs to be done...:mad2:

[FordNut]

Just wondering what to expect, I gotta go to Denver for a week at the end of January. Kinda strange to be home so much, after 2 years of weekly commuting to Phoenix and Vegas (throw in Lubbock for the last 6 months).

[Bigdogjim]

Now you need to be at the airport 3 hours ahead of time for flights inside the USA 4 hours if going outside the USA?

[Mike]

I'll be flying to Vegas in July and hoping that it won't be too much trouble.

[Tassfrasca]

I travel alot, and work on security systems at airports, (Thank God it wasnt any of the systems my company builds).
I dont believe that you will see much of a change in security as a customer. The TSA will probably have more stringint protocals that they have to deal with.
Keep in mind though the time of year you will be traveling in. I for one would rather be there early then Run for a flight. I dont Run for flights, ill get the next one :).

anyway its a shame what happened but until we start (Dare i say it) Profiling i believe that we will always have some lack in security, but it is better then it once was thats for sure!

thats my 2 cents!

[SC Cheesehead]

I travel alot, and work on security systems at airports, (Thank God it wasnt any of the systems my company builds).
I dont believe that you will see much of a change in security as a customer. The TSA will probably have more stringint protocals that they have to deal with.
Keep in mind though the time of year you will be traveling in. I for one would rather be there early then Run for a flight. I dont Run for flights, ill get the next one :).

anyway its a shame what happened but until we start (Dare i say it) Profiling i believe that we will always have some lack in security, but it is better then it once was thats for sure!

thats my 2 cents!

Big +1 on that!

Interesting article on security that I came across this morning.

Here's an excerpt:

"Security is both a feeling and a reality. The propensity for security theater comes from the interplay between the public and its leaders.

When people are scared, they need something done that will make them feel safe, even if it doesn't truly make them safer. Politicians naturally want to do something in response to crisis, even if that something doesn't make any sense.

Often, this "something" is directly related to the details of a recent event. We confiscate liquids, screen shoes, and ban box cutters on airplanes. We tell people they can't use an airplane restroom in the last 90 minutes of an international flight. But it's not the target and tactics of the last attack that are important, but the next attack. These measures are only effective if we happen to guess what the next terrorists are planning.

If we spend billions defending our rail systems, and the terrorists bomb a shopping mall instead, we've wasted our money. If we concentrate airport security on screening shoes and confiscating liquids, and the terrorists hide explosives in their brassieres and use solids, we've wasted our money. Terrorists don't care what they blow up and it shouldn't be our goal merely to force the terrorists to make a minor change in their tactics or targets.

Our current response to terrorism is a form of "magical thinking." It relies on the idea that we can somehow make ourselves safer by protecting against what the terrorists happened to do last time..."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/OPINION/12/29/schneier.air.travel.security.t heater/

[Pops]

Very true Rex! The goverment just does not get it!

[SC Cheesehead]

Very true Rex! The goverment just does not get it!

Uhhh, maybe time to change the government, eh?

[mrjones]

[QUOTE=FordNut;843296]
So how does this crap happen?

Easily, when the leaders of the country are such ******s that they worry more about offending someone for being a Mooooozlim, or looking or sounding like one, than about actually defending our country from further attack.

I'm pretty sure that if you lined up pictures of all the terrorists since 9/11, my seven year old daughter could pick out the similarities in the pictures and the names. Seems like it would make a lot of since to focus our efforts on those guys, rather than every single person coming through the airport, doesn't it?

I also remember hearing that this guy didn't even have a passport.

[Pops]

:help::help::help::help::help: :help::help:

[SC Cheesehead]

[quote=mrjones;843461][quote=FordNut;843296] Seems like it would make a lot of since to focus our efforts on those guys, rather than every single person coming through the airport, doesn't it?quote]

Oh heck no! WWII vets with metal plates in their heads and 70 year old grannys are a MUCH bigger threat.....:cool:

[Tassfrasca]

People just need to stop feeling Offended and Feel safe, however that happens!
if profiling is what it takes, DO IT!
Israel has done it for Years, they dont complain. Security as we know it has changed. embrace it! move on.
whatever your religion is souldnt matter, what ever happened to being AMERICAN!?

when coming back into this Country, the Customs Agents used to say "Welcome Home". most dont even do that anymore.
Pretty damn Sad if you ask me.

i just hate how ppl complain about waiting in security lines... Why do we have to do this... with my security systems shirt on they always seem to ask me... 9/11 is why we do this. its unfortunate but reality.
to be SAFE i will do about anything!

[Tassfrasca]

AMEN Cheesehead AMEN!

[J-MAN]

I've got three solid months of travel after I get back to work in January.

Guaranteed PITA.

Don't even ask me what I think needs to be done...:mad2:

What needs to be done?

[SC Cheesehead]

What needs to be done?


Well, here's my 2 cents:

1. Profiling
2. Enhance the intelligence-gathering abilities of the secret services rather than demonize them.
3. Better funding for both investigative arms to prevent terrorist attacks, and emergency communications systems for after attacks occur.
4. Arresting terrorist plotters without media fanfare. the :censor: media does as much as anybody to exacerbate feelings of fear and insecurity.
5. Deal with terrorists as war criminals. IMO, if you commit a terrorist act, you wave due process and are not subject to the constraints of the American judicial system. Caught, sententenced, executed; end of story.
6. To quote Bruce Schneier from link in an earlier post, "The best way to help people feel secure is by acting secure around them. Instead of reacting to terrorism with fear, we -- and our leaders -- need to react with indomitability...By not overreacting, by not responding to movie-plot threats, and by not becoming defensive, we demonstrate the resilience of our society...There's a difference between accepting the inherent risk that comes with a free and open society, and hyping the threats."

I could go on, but enough of the ranting.

[Tassfrasca]

i vote military presence at ports and airports. MORE GUNS!!! YEAH!!!

[SC Cheesehead]

i vote military presence at ports and airports. MORE GUNS!!! YEAH!!!

Locked and loaded with orders STK....;)

[Glenn]

Many people voted for "Change" and now don't like the Change they see. It didn't take a genius to see what Obama was going to do if elected. One clear item was he was not going to be a strong leader and fight the war on terriorism. Com'on people you voted for him and the liberal Demos that are changing our way of life and now the complaints. You got a chance in November to correct your mistake - take advantage of this opportunity to "Right America".

Glenn Ford :burnout:

[SC Cheesehead]

You got it nailed, Glenn.

[Bluerauder]

i vote military presence at ports and airports.
Are you volunteering to sign up for ^^^^ this? Probably not, huh?

It's not like the military doesn't have enough to do right now. Deployments are up to an overwhelming pace .... many of these servicemen and women are on their 3rd, 4th, or even 5th rotation to Iraq, Afghanistan or some other hotspot.

Let TSA, airport security, air marshalls, and the police handle the airports.

I agree with Rex. Justice should be administered expeditiously. You gotta "fry" some of these guys when they are caught in the act.

[FordNut]

You gotta "fry" some of these guys when they are caught in the act.

Now that's not very nice...

[ImpalaSlayer]

Now that's not very nice...

Brian is right, you gotta slap them on the wrist and tell them no no :nono:

[BobC]

What part of GOVERNMENT don't y'all understand? Feel-good regulations with no real f*****g change?

PC nonsense got 12 military folks killed in Texas. Granny profiling is OK, but A-rab is not.

[SC Cheesehead]

What part of GOVERNMENT don't y'all understand? Feel-good regulations with no real f*****g change?

PC nonsense got 12 military folks killed in Texas. Granny profiling is OK, but A-rab is not.

Bob, you are 100% on target.

[cruzer]

32 years in the cockpit of an airliner---you learn a few things. First of all--be prepared for the unexpected---constantly run "what if" scenarios with your crew. I used to stand in the door and personally look at each passenger--practically impossible to do that now with a 2 person crew--I did not hesitate to have passengers removed--my word was all I needed--no questions allowed from anyone--I wasn't worried about law suits---then the high-jackings started and they got away with it--the pilot's had solutions--but no-one would listen--"security experts" suddenly appeared---pilot's wanted highly technical profiling--full civil rights for non-citizens stopped that---pilot's decision making during in-flight security emergencies was hog-tied--"just give them what they want and they won't hurt you"---they armed "sky marshals" who had never made a command decision in their lives, while 3,000 retired airline captains volunteered to start flying the next day--no pay to start with--were turned down because they had no 'security' training and could not be relied on in a 'physical situation'--I know--I was one of them--the rest you know. I've been retired for 21 years and not a single workable solution has been accepted since then. Remember this---to have a true Democracy, you must give up certain freedoms to protect that Democracy. Oh yes, the terrorist was completely successful in his mission--his equipment failed--not his mission. IMHO a terrorist has no civil rights--treat him for what he is---a mass murderer. Maury

[SC Cheesehead]

Words of wisdom indeed.

[Mr. Man]

Didn't the guy get on a plane in Nigeria? I can imagine what kind of security they have. Did he have to pass through security in Amsterdam again? Having never flown international I don't know. Terrorists can strike almost anywhere so I don't spend to much time worrying about it. Catch them, kill them, sure if you can. What annoys me more are the knee jerk reactions that our Homeland Security Agency does with seemingly no thought to whether or not the action will improve anything. Seems more likely the new rules just frustrate people trying to get to their destination. After 9/11 they banned lighters and other potentially dangerous things then some moron at HSA decides that maybe its OK to have knives w/less than 3 inch blades or maybe lighters are OK. I think the first place to start screening people is at the front door of the Homeland Security Building. Idiots need not apply. My .02 cents, rant over

[BobC]

One of the main reasons I bought the Marauder was so that I don't have to fly to most of my destinations.

BTW - The reason El Al has such a good record is that they target the INDIVIDUAL and not the WEAPON!!!!

Duh!!!

[Motorhead350]

My girlfriend few recently, but it was to Ohio. Nothing has seemed to changed locally. I don't think that's a good thing.

[SC Cheesehead]

My girlfriend few recently, but it was to Ohio. Nothing has seemed to changed locally. I don't think that's a good thing.

I'm flying tomorrow, will give you guys an update after I get to TX.

[bob6364]

when flying everyone should be handed a single shot derringer pistol loaded with bird shot...if some sumbitch gets the itch to play then there can be 50 or so pistols turned on him....Bahahaha!!! remember God made man but Smith&Wesson made him equal.

[SC Cheesehead]

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20100105/NEWS01/100105004/No-threat-found-at-GSP-airport-after-bomb-dog-alerts-on-plane

Guess who got caught up in this mess today...:mad2:

[Phrog_gunner]

I propose a solution to all the people that are complaining about the increased security and civil rights:

It's the two plane method and which plane you choose is completely up to you so your civil rights aren't violated.

Plane #1: a mandatory and painfully thorough security check.

Plane #2: no security check, everyone just walks right on.

[Mr. Man]

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20100105/NEWS01/100105004/No-threat-found-at-GSP-airport-after-bomb-dog-alerts-on-plane

Guess who got caught up in this mess today...:mad2:

Damn!!! Guess you'll have to get some beers to calm your nerves there Bubba:beer:

[SC Cheesehead]

I propose a solution to all the people that are complaining about the increased security and civil rights:

It's the two plane method and which plane you choose is completely up to you so your civil rights aren't violated.

Plane #1: a mandatory and painfully thorough security check.

Plane #2: no security check, everyone just walks right on.

How often do you fly commercially? If the half-azzed rules and procedures currently in place really gave us a measure of security it would be one thing, but the current :bs: is just a joke.

[Phrog_gunner]

How often do you fly commercially? If the half-azzed rules and procedures currently in place really gave us a measure of security it would be one thing, but the current :bs: is just a joke.

Most of my commercial flying has been international and I have never really heard anyone complain about extra security measures because they know it keeps them safe. The only people that have a problem with it are the geniuses at the ACLU who flap their gums so often these days they are about as credible as PETA.

Hopefully the next time I fly commercial I will be in the cockpit. ;)

[FordNut]

I really don't think additional security measures are needed. Just use what was already in place. Paid cash, one way ticket, no bags checked, on a watch list, travelling on an expired visa, Daddy has reported him as a threat. Nobody noticed any problems here?

The logic is similar to the government approach to gun laws. Instead of enforcing what is already on the books, they jump to the conclusion they need to enact more laws.

[FordNut]

Plane #2: no security check, everyone just walks right on.

I'd probably go with this one.

[W4LTD]

People just need to stop feeling Offended and Feel safe, however that happens!
if profiling is what it takes, DO IT!
Israel has done it for Years, they dont complain. Security as we know it has changed. embrace it! move on.
whatever your religion is souldnt matter, what ever happened to being AMERICAN!?

when coming back into this Country, the Customs Agents used to say "Welcome Home". most dont even do that anymore.
Pretty damn Sad if you ask me.

i just hate how ppl complain about waiting in security lines... Why do we have to do this... with my security systems shirt on they always seem to ask me... 9/11 is why we do this. its unfortunate but reality.
to be SAFE i will do about anything!

Our government seems to be more reactive than proactive.

[Phrog_gunner]

The logic is similar to the government approach to gun laws. Instead of enforcing what is already on the books, they jump to the conclusion they need to enact more laws.

I completely agree, but from what I hear those full body scans are more thorough and much faster. So it could be the best of both worlds.

[SC Cheesehead]

I completely agree, but from what I hear those full body scans are more thorough and much faster. So it could be the best of both worlds.

Won't disagree with that, but like FordNut said, a little more profiling (GASP!) wouldn't be a bad idea either.

[FordNut]

Won't disagree with that, but like FordNut said, a little more profiling (GASP!) wouldn't be a bad idea either.

A lot more profiling...

[Phrog_gunner]

Won't disagree with that, but like FordNut said, a little more profiling (GASP!) wouldn't be a bad idea either.

I'm def not against it, but I only think that will work short term. Once they figure out what the "profile" is, all they have to do is send people that don't fit that profile who will easily stroll past an incompetent minimum wage gov't employee with a false sense of security because they are now allowed to profile.

[Georges93LX]

The simple solution to your travel/security needs are solved by pulling out your Platinum Amex card and calling me. I'll show up at your hometown airport in luxurious private jet and take your ass anywhere in the world and back that your credit card will allow.:D

[Phrog_gunner]

The simple solution to your travel/security needs are solved by pulling out your Platinum Amex card and calling me. I'll show up at your hometown airport in luxurious private jet and take your ass anywhere in the world and back that your credit card will allow.:D

What kind of jet? Do you need a SIC? :cool:

[Georges93LX]

From a Beechjet to a Challeger 604. I drive a Lear 60. Sorry no SICs needed at this time but you never know.

[Phrog_gunner]

Sweet, I'm working on my PMEL right now, and should be done with Inst, Commercial, and Instructor ratings by spring.

[Georges93LX]

Congrats to you. Keep up the hard work.

[Phrog_gunner]

Thanks. I think the hardest work isn't even getting the quals as much as finding a way to get the hours without selling a kidney.

[SC Cheesehead]

I'm def not against it, but I only think that will work short term. Once they figure out what the "profile" is, all they have to do is send people that don't fit that profile who will easily stroll past an incompetent minimum wage gov't employee with a false sense of security because they are now allowed to profile.

Yeah, and doing full body patdowns on 70 year old grannies and WWII vets makes me feel so secure right now...;)

I'm not suggesting profiling as the only measure, but when 99.99% of terrorist acts have been committed by a certain ethnic/religious group, doesn't it make sense that this should be the group where the most security is focused?


The simple solution to your travel/security needs are solved by pulling out your Platinum Amex card and calling me. I'll show up at your hometown airport in luxurious private jet and take your ass anywhere in the world and back that your credit card will allow.:D

I LIKE your idea, George! Now if I can just talk corp. travel into it....:D

[SC Cheesehead]

Just came across this "opinion" article. This really defines the frustration I've got toward the current state of "security" we've got in place"

"In 2002, one would-be shoe bomber forced millions of travelers to take off their shoes. In 1996, terrorists planned to bring down aircraft on transatlantic flights by smuggling liquid explosives onto plane. They were thwarted but they succeeded in preventing passengers from bringing liquids into airline terminals.
Lesson number one: In this terror war, the jihadists have the upper hand. THEY are in charge. THEY are the ones who choose to use a new weapon and they are also the ones who – by using simple logic -- have refrained from using the same terror weapons more than once. In fact, since September 2001, Al Qaeda’s henchmen have avoided rushing into the cockpit of an airliner with box cutters. Does this mean we were successful in deterring the terrorists? Of course: as long as we can prevent them from using the 9/11 methods, they won't be naïve enough or foolish enough to repeat the same strategy. So are we winning the fight with Al Qaeda by using these measures? No, we are simply protecting our population until we win the war. But winning is not measured by surviving potential copycat attacks..."

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/01/05/walid-phares-terror-prevent-attacks-al-qaeda-jihad/

[duhtroll]

All I know is the explosives were carried in the guy's underwear.

Now everyone should have to get naked before boarding.

[SC Cheesehead]

All I know is the explosives were carried in the guy's underwear.

Now everyone should have to get naked before boarding.

And be subject to a full body cavity search....;)