Meth Heads

[-Matt-]

Ive been thinking it over and i think i wanna shoot meth

Who all is using it here?

Why should i / shouldn't i use it?

I just wanna add it as a insurance thing on top of a non-meth tune. Just to get the extra octane and cooler IAT on those summer or race days

What kit are you using?


Thanks

Matt

[ntd]

I just bought the stage 2 system they have great tech support
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.co m/Trunk-Mount-Systems/c37/index.html

[-Matt-]

I just bought the stage 2 system they have great tech support
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.co m/Trunk-Mount-Systems/c37/index.html


The trunk mount one?

[ntd]

yes sir but the do have the fender mount systems. Check out there tech section a lot of good reading

[-Matt-]

yes sir but the do have the fender mount systems. Check out there tech section a lot of good reading

Yeah ive been reading up on it... Im going to do the fender mount and run it off my windshield spray bottle.

You running a single, duel or triple sprayer?

[ntd]

Yeah ive been reading up on it... Im going to do the fender mount and run it off my windshield spray bottle.

You running a single, duel or triple sprayer?

Duel before the throttle body, I bought two aluminum weld in bungs to mount on the intake tubing for the nozzles. Plan is to have two tunes one with race tune so the timing will be bumped up and second as a street tune more safety oriented

[-Matt-]

Duel before the throttle body, I bought two aluminum weld in bungs to mount on the intake tubing for the nozzles. Plan is to have two tunes one with race tune so the timing will be bumped up and second as a street tune more safety oriented

I have a carbon fiber intake tube. :(

[ntd]

maybe this and some o-rings would work for you IDK http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=53

[-Matt-]

maybe this and some o-rings would work for you IDK http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=53


That could work.... i got the vortech kit from mike and i know he was spraying meth, i need to find out where he mounted the nozzles

[ntd]

Usually you spay after the intercooler to avoid pooling the best place seems to be right before the throttle body. Mine has it in the pipe to the throttle body @5 inches away from the TB.

[tjl006]

are there any issues of corosion when using meth, I thought i heard that somewhere.

[-Matt-]

Mine has it in the pipe to the throttle body @5 inches away from the TB.


Lol, so curiosity got to me and i went out to the "parts area" to see if i can see where mike had the nozzle run to. I pick up the intake and flip it over and see this:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/xxshowstoppaxx/0223002145.jpg


I guess i know where the nozzle is going to go now. lol :D

[Kennyrauder]

We are like a bunch of Junkies... we are chasing the ultimate high for our Marauders. This stuff is very dangerous. Good luck & God Bless your engine. PS Why do you have to go to the wall? Ask your wife & kids the same question. I am totally satisfied just to be able to drive my Marauder done the way she is.I guess I should shut my mouth but I really hate to see someone in major crying mode because of this meth technology.

[-Matt-]

We are like a bunch of Junkies... we are chasing the ultimate high for our Marauders. This stuff is very dangerous. Good luck & God Bless your engine. PS Why do you have to go to the wall? Ask your wife & kids the same question. I am totally satisfied just to be able to drive my Marauder done the way she is.I guess I should shut my mouth but I really hate to see someone in major crying mode because of this meth technology.

Do you even know what methanol injection does? lol


Benefits of Water Methanol Injection:



Lower air temperatures by 50-200+ degrees

Reduces cylinder temperatures by 200+ degrees

Increase your 87-93 pump gas by 15-20+ points

Increase horsepower safely by 10-15%

Allows you to safely run more boost and timing

Cools and protects the tops of your pistons

Longer more stable combustion expansion and progression

Removes carbon build up from combustion chambers, pistons and valves

Reduces & helps eliminate damaging engine detonation & pre-ignition

No need for expensive racing fuel or additives

[hotford]

Do you even know what methanol injection does? lol


Benefits of Water Methanol Injection:



Lower air temperatures by 50-200+ degrees

Reduces cylinder temperatures by 200+ degrees

Increase your 87-93 pump gas by 15-20+ points

Increase horsepower safely by 10-15%

Allows you to safely run more boost and timing

Cools and protects the tops of your pistons

Longer more stable combustion expansion and progression

Removes carbon build up from combustion chambers, pistons and valves

Reduces & helps eliminate damaging engine detonation & pre-ignition

No need for expensive racing fuel or additives

Also eliminates oil tracking in the intake system.plus plus plus...

[ntd]

Lol, so curiosity got to me and i went out to the "parts area" to see if i can see where mike had the nozzle run to. I pick up the intake and flip it over and see this:

I guess i know where the nozzle is going to go now. lol :D
Yahtzee:D makes your life easier

[ntd]

We are like a bunch of Junkies... we are chasing the ultimate high for our Marauders. This stuff is very dangerous. Good luck & God Bless your engine. PS Why do you have to go to the wall? Ask your wife & kids the same question. I am totally satisfied just to be able to drive my Marauder done the way she is.I guess I should shut my mouth but I really hate to see someone in major crying mode because of this meth technology.


What are you talking about:confused:.

[juno]

You could just shoot water also. You still get the cooling effects and extra timing effects.

http://www.waterinjection.info/

[ntd]

You could just shoot water also. You still get the cooling effects and extra timing effects.

http://www.waterinjection.info/

Very true there are alot of thing you can use but with a 50/50 meth water mix you get a cooling effects plus a octane boost. Cheak this out, has all the things you can use http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.co m/a48/What-Type-Of-Fluids-Can-I-Use-With-My-Water-Methanol-Injection-System/article_info.html

[musclemerc]

We are like a bunch of Junkies... we are chasing the ultimate high for our Marauders. This stuff is very dangerous. Good luck & God Bless your engine. PS Why do you have to go to the wall? Ask your wife & kids the same question. I am totally satisfied just to be able to drive my Marauder done the way she is.I guess I should shut my mouth but I really hate to see someone in major crying mode because of this meth technology.


Take your own advice!

[juno]

Very true there are alot of thing you can use but with a 50/50 meth water mix you get a cooling effects plus a octane boost. Cheak this out, has all the things you can use http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.co m/a48/What-Type-Of-Fluids-Can-I-Use-With-My-Water-Methanol-Injection-System/article_info.html

Yes, I have done all the research before. A mixture is nice. But on a stock motor all you need is a little safety margin. Buying race gas at the track is the most convenient. Water is next. Then the meth mixtures. The higher the meth mixtures, the more complicated it gets, for obtaining and mixing, storing, etc.
Water is probably the best choice if you are looking for a safety margin and not a large hp add-on. It is great for repeated runs on a hot track day.
They were using that in Supercharged fighter engines at altitude in WW2.

[ntd]

Yes, I have done all the research before. A mixture is nice. But on a stock motor all you need is a little safety margin. Buying race gas at the track is the most convenient. Water is next. Then the meth mixtures. The higher the meth mixtures, the more complicated it gets, for obtaining and mixing, storing, etc.
Water is probably the best choice if you are looking for a safety margin and not a large hp add-on. It is great for repeated runs on a hot track day.
They were using that in Supercharged fighter engines at altitude in WW2.

You make a very valid point race gas is very convenient but how much is it a gallon at the track and how long does a last. I can go to the auto parts store buy a gallon of -20 window washer fluid and 4 can of heat and get a 50/50 mix that's readily available and very easy to mix. It cost @ $20 for little over gallons that will last alot longer than a gallon of race gas. Any engine will benefit from a cooler denser air and a octane boost even a stock engine

[Glenn]

Benefits of Water Methanol Injection: ????????


Lower air temperatures by 50-200+ degrees

Reduces cylinder temperatures by 200+ degrees

Increase your 87-93 pump gas by 15-20+ points

Increase horsepower safely by 10-15%

Allows you to safely run more boost and timing

Cools and protects the tops of your pistons

Longer more stable combustion expansion and progression

Removes carbon build up from combustion chambers, pistons and valves

Reduces & helps eliminate damaging engine detonation & pre-ignition

No need for expensive racing fuel or additives

Questionable - Not worth the money or effort. Put your money into a good tune and use race gas at the track and you will provide more protection then any Meth. I know several members who blew new forged engines with Meth. They do not want what happen know to the collective. The Meth was installed by a well know tuner. NOT worth it!




Glenn Ford :burnout:

[ntd]

Glenn thanks for you input I'm always looking to learn more. I would love to talk to some people that have had a engine failures due to methanol injection. Also could you pm me the name of the tuner I would like to ask some Question(if he's willing). I'm not trying to argue with anyone but for every failure there are the same or more people that have had a good experience with meth injection. People have the same fear or reservation with nitrous, as with any performance part proper installation and top notch tuning are needed to be successful.

[Glenn]

Sorry, it would create a firestorm on the net if I released the tuner's name. It's up to the owners to do it not me. That's why it has not been dscussed and will never be released.

Meth is snake oil - your trouble comes in when the timing is increased to take advanage of the Meth's cooling especially with a SC. If the Meth flow is interrupted or does not flow evenly its - BANG!

Glenn Ford :burnout:

[Zack]

Meth injection is an awesome alternative to a non-intercooled supercharger.

If you want to spend the $300+, add a mess of wires and plumbing for marginal gains, if any, go right ahead.

You want safety, tell your tuner to back out timing when the IAT's go above 130-140.

[ntd]

Sorry, it would create a firestorm on the net if I released the tuner's name. It's up to the owners to do it not me. That's why it has not been dscussed and will never be released.

Meth is snake oil - your trouble comes in when the timing is increased to take advanage of the Meth's cooling especially with a SC. If the Meth flow is interrupted or does not flow evenly its - BANG!

Glenn Ford :burnout:
I don't thinks it's snake oils. It is proven to work but like all things there is a hint of danger thats what makes it fun:P

Nitrous a fuel soleniod takes a poop-Bang
Fuel pump take a poop-Bang
Eaton makes a few passes and IAT go up-Bang



Meth injection is an awesome alternative to a non-intercooled supercharger.

If you want to spend the $300+, add a mess of wires and plumbing for marginal gains, if any, go right ahead.

You want safety, tell your tuner to back out timing when the IAT's go above 130-140.

It is a very good option. Is it a magical chemical no, all it does is let you add a little more timing which on a supercharged car can show big improvements. As for safety that is why the IAT should be after the meth if there is a problem it can adjust for the rise in temp by pulling timing right.

[MCAT]

methanol is very corrosive, & when you run it through your motor it causes a lot of damage in a short time, it will damage your combustion chamber, pistons, rings & valves, a well known builder/tuner said in an article about meth injection "if you want to run it like a racer, be ready to rebuild it like a racer"

it is some how able to get past the rings & do a lot of damage to the connecting rods, crank & bearings.

[ntd]

methanol is very corrosive, & when you run it through your motor it causes a lot of damage in a short time, it will damage your combustion chamber, pistons, rings & valves, a well known builder/tuner said in an article about meth injection "if you want to run it like a racer, be ready to rebuild it like a racer"

it is some how able to get past the rings & do a lot of damage to the connecting rods, crank & bearings.

Thanks, you wouldn't happen to have a link to that article about meth injection would you:beer:

[-Matt-]

If the Meth flow is interrupted or does not flow evenly its - BANG!

Glenn Ford :burnout:



That would only be if i had a tune that needed the meth, i will put the meth on top of a already safe tune to keep temps down and some extra octane

[juno]

That would only be if i had a tune that needed the meth, i will put the meth on top of a already safe tune to keep temps down and some extra octane

If that is all you need water will work fine. You seem set on math though.
Try contacting Rich (O'sfanrich). He ran meth with his Trilogy for a few years.

[MCAT]

Thanks, you wouldn't happen to have a link to that article about meth injection would you:beer:
sorry no link, it was in MM&FF Al Papitto of Boss 330 Racing "over head cam corrundrum" article

[ntd]

sorry no link, it was in MM&FF Al Papitto of Boss 330 Racing "over head cam corrundrum" article

Ah thanks I have a 3ft stack of MM&FF and 5.0. I'll have to see if I can find it

[-Matt-]

If that is all you need water will work fine. You seem set on math though.
Try contacting Rich (O'sfanrich). He ran meth with his Trilogy for a few years.


Water or meth mix, either way i still need the kit ;)

[DOOM]

That would only be if i had a tune that needed the meth, i will put the meth on top of a already safe tune to keep temps down and some extra octane

I dont see the point bro.

What are you trying to achieve with your car?

What goals do you have in mind?

[-Matt-]

I dont see the point bro.

What are you trying to achieve with your car?

What goals do you have in mind?


Insurance is in my mind. We see 115*+ days down here. It would be nice to drop intake temp and give a little 'tane boost to help prevent detonation. I would like to be at ease on the track or on hot days driving her knowing that i would have it. :cool4:

[DOOM]

understandable :beer:

[ntd]

good read
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/mmfp_0811_methanol_and_racing_ fuel_comparison/index.html

Everone seems to be very wored about the corrosive propertys of methanol. Any one know what E85 is 85% percent ethanol which is only a little less corosive than methanol. Methanol mixed at only 50% is in use a short amount of the time, E85 at 85% is run all the time. Seems that the corrosive propertys are not that big of a effect on engine life if they were I don't think Manufactures would be using Alcohol fuels. As for engines coming apart on meth forged engines have failed not using meth too. I talked to a few engine builders none have seen one failure from meth eating some internal components of the engine.

Just some food for thought again I'm not trying to start a fight :hug2:

[-Matt-]

This is actually some discussion!


So im thinking maybe running water most of the time on the street then when at the track throw a mix in the fluid tank?

[FordNut]

I say go for it!

I have a kit installed, never really got it setup since so many other mods were in the works. Some of the research I did suggested one way to tune for it is get a base tune, then turn on the meth and crank up the meth flow until the power falls off. Then retune and advance the timing. A bunch.

Then when you run out of meth it detonates and takes out an engine unless you have some reliable way to pull timing. I've heard of a couple of motors biting the dust due to running out of methanol.

My plan is to have a very low flow rate and not add any timing.

[-Matt-]

I say go for it!

I have a kit installed, never really got it setup since so many other mods were in the works. Some of the research I did suggested one way to tune for it is get a base tune, then turn on the meth and crank up the meth flow until the power falls off. Then retune and advance the timing. A bunch.

Then when you run out of meth it detonates and takes out an engine unless you have some reliable way to pull timing. I've heard of a couple of motors biting the dust due to running out of methanol.

My plan is to have a very low flow rate and not add any timing.


Exactly, this happens. But whats to blame? The meth or the dumb ass owner. On a specific drag car i can understand, but thats not my goal.

[Glenn]

Don't add timing and you have no worries especially on a SC car.

Glenn Ford :burnout:

[hotford]

Just ask lidio at alternative auto he can break it down for ya he's been dealing with meth on mustangs with every type of blower, intercooled, non intercooled, centri blower, twin screws etc......:beer:

[ntd]

Don't add timing and you have no worries especially on a SC car.

Glenn Ford :burnout:


Glen on a base tune some Trilogy cars have windowed the block after repeated runs at the track. Race fuel is great preventative measure but it still doesn't address the intake air temp issue. Meth injection properly instated and tuned correctly could have prevented some of those failures. It really seems like we are all going round and round on this meth discussion:lol:.

[juno]

I think the reason we are going roundy roundy is that it took a few rounds of discussion to establish the why's and what-fors. I think anyone reading through the thread in it's entirety now will have enough food for thought and links to continue their research and make an informed decision if they wish.

[ntd]

I think the reason we are going roundy roundy is that it took a few rounds of discussion to establish the why's and what-fors. I think anyone reading through the thread in it's entirety now will have enough food for thought and links to continue their research and make an informed decision if they wish.


Very well put:beer:, Is meth injection for everyone no it is additional expense, takes up more room, and one more thing that can go bad and take out an engine although never head of a pump failure most people run out meth or get to aggressive with the timing. Everyone considering meth should do there own research don't just take someone's opinions look for the facts, opinions are like stink holes everyone has one and they usually stink like poo.

[-Matt-]

Im going to get a low fluid thingy.... no running out for me

[Zack]

Glen on a base tune some Trilogy cars have windowed the block after repeated runs at the track. Race fuel is great preventative measure but it still doesn't address the intake air temp issue. Meth injection properly instated and tuned correctly could have prevented some of those failures. It really seems like we are all going round and round on this meth discussion:lol:.

Hate to bring it up but its an IAT sensor location issue that cause the engines to fail.

The only other factor that has led to a handful of engine failures in the IC pump going out.

The revised discharge plate with the IAT sensor in it will address both of the above issues.

[ntd]

Very true and thanks for bringing that up my intent about making that comment was not to pick on the Trilogy setup or the Eaton crew:wflag:. If the deal that fell in my lap hadn't I would have been colleting parts for an Eaton conversion and I would trying to pick yours and Dave's brain:D. With the correct placement of the IAT there problem wouldn't have been heat and timing related failures as the pcm would have compensated buy pulling timing. But if meth injection was being used not only would you already have the safety of higher octane gas and the intake air temps would have never gotten as high as they did. Would it have totally prevented any engine failures IDK but chances would have been better.

[MCAT]

I think meth/water Injection is kinda "robbing Peter to pay Paul"
in my veiw it's better used as a tool to make big power in a race motor,
if you use it for a some so called piece of mind in the short term
you will still be doing long term damage to your engine,
as for the manufactures, they do not have a choice, the are forced buy the government to make cars that run on corrosive fuels, did you ever wonder why most gas tanks (& most portable gas cans) are made out of plastic? if the car in Question is a "race car" then I would have no problem running meth. again just my personal veiw no ill-will ment.

[ntd]

I think meth/water Injection is kinda "robbing Peter to pay Paul"
in my veiw it's better used as a tool to make big power in a race motor,
if you use it for a some so called piece of mind in the short term
you will still be doing long term damage to your engine,
as for the manufactures, they do not have a choice, the are forced buy the government to make cars that run on corrosive fuels, did you ever wonder why most gas tanks (& most portable gas cans) are made out of plastic? if the car in Question is a "race car" then I would have no problem running meth. again just my personal veiw no ill-will ment.

Manufactures are pushed by the government to produce better mileage and less emissions not run corrosive fuels. Per USA Today E85 mileage penalty is 28%. That means your 25 mpg car now only gets 18 mpg if you flex to E85. You have to use more fuel to travel the same mileage per a tank of fuel making more emissions.I'm sure that direct contact with meth will cause corrosion but just like E85 the need for corrosive resistant lines and tanks stops there once it hits the heated air and it is evaporated the corrosive property's are lessened so there is no excessive corrosion on the engine. Evan on a gas engine the engine oil can be turned acidic from blowby causing engine wear. Just like you I'm only trying to help:beer:

[ntd]

I really want to thank Glen, Juno, Mcat, & Zack this has been a really good discussion and given alot of people things to consider before making the plunge into Meth injection:beer:.

[Vortech347]

Water/Meth is great. I pick up 70rwhp with the additional timing and meth rockin. My dads 3v GT also has meth. It picked up 50rwhp.

[ntd]

Water/Meth is great. I pick up 70rwhp with the additional timing and meth rockin. My dads 3v GT also has meth. It picked up 50rwhp.

How long have you and your dad been addicted to meth?

[sailsmen]

I have the SNOW system for boosted applications (an electronic controller)using the WS Washer tank, small jet and BOOST JUICE. It is boost activated on a Race Tune.

I have 25K miles and 33 passes. No problems.

The street tune is >450RWHP and spins the tires at any speed in 1st and most speeds in 2nd.

The race tune uses Meth and I use Lucas Octane Booster, 2 bottles for 12 gallons of 93 to equal ~103.

I use RainX and have never missed not having the WS Washer fluid.

I have a blow through and the IAT does not see the Meth. The next step is to mount an IAT that will see Meth. This is so as not to pull timing when it's hot out as the current may due to the IAT being on the MAF pre jet. The Meth added about 40RWHP.

The washer tank is good for about 10 passes.

I have had the oil analyzed at 10K, 14K and 17K came back aok.

SNOW recently came out with a custom pump designed for Meth. Most of the current Meth sys all use the same modified well pump.

I have an AtoA and there is little that can go wrong with it. I installed the Meth because when we went to 19psi it was more then the water to air could handle. Dennis recc and several others recc the AtoA. To be extra sure the IAT temps would be where they needed to be we added the meth.

To date I am happy with the Meth and can reccomend the SNOW system because that is what I have experience with.

As far as engines blowing on Meth it's not the Meth that is blowing the eninges or a lot of fighter planes would have fallen out of the sky. Most likely Meth is being added to a high performance car that races. The car is agressively tuned for racing to get the max power. Somethingelse is going wrong, intercooler pump, incorrect IAT location, fuel pump or an inattentive driver who "forgets" to add meth. Inattentive drivers do all sorts of things that cause damage to their cars.

[ntd]

Its great that you get the oil analized and have cold hard facts that in 25K miles and 33 passes there has been no signs of excessive wear, more food for thought

[Glenn]

Billy:

Good to see you post. Not many people have the specific skills both mechanically and tuning that you have. I know you can use Meth effectively and can adjust your tune on the fly to make any necessary adjustments. But, many people do not have your skill level. For the average driver - many things can go wrong as you stated and if you do not catch it quickly major issues can develop. I could not use Meth with any sense of security, I just do not have the ability.

So when does the cage go in?? Comin to Commerce this year?

Glenn :burnout:

[Vortech347]

How long have you and your dad been addicted to meth?

Myself about 5 years, my dad, 3. I run 50/50 distilled water and pure meth. Its 10 times cheaper than boost juice and locally available. When I plan on running really hard in the summer I'll run about a 70/30 mix (more meth)

[FordNut]

A couple of comments on the installation...

If you go with Snow and get their fitting to add in to the wiper fluid reservoir you can retain wiper/washer function.

Use 50/50 water/meth and it is about the same mixture as some wiper fluid so it can be used for both purposes. Some people use wiper fluid, but the concentration is not listed on the bottles and it is not consistent from one brand to another. If you can't find methanol locally, you can use the small bottles of fuel line anti-freeze. Some brands are isopropanol, some are ethanol, but others are methanol. Just read the labels to be sure you're getting methanol.

If you get a wiper reservoir for a CV/GM it fits exactly the same but has a low fluid indicator float switch. You can hook that up to a warning light or other electronic circuits to prevent you from damaging the engine if it gets low.

[babbage]

this costs more, but its probably safer.

http://www.designengineering.com/content/cryo2-cool-way-get-more-power

http://www.designengineering.com/sites/default/files/article-cryo2-main-large.jpg

You are cooling the intercooler "naturally" so the car knows what the real IAT's are, no cheating.





Besides look what Meth does to your TEETH.
http://equipbiz.co.nz/blog/pictures/meth-teeth.jpg

[babbage]

Matt - did you get your SC kit installed yet? I think you are getting ahead of yourself...

Get that puppy installed!

[-Matt-]

Matt - did you get your SC kit installed yet? I think you are getting ahead of yourself...

Get that puppy installed!


April, im doing it all at the same time