I have a Question.....

[Smokie]

Recently I raced for the first time and I have a question about the relationship between ET. and Trap Speed. I raced against the same car 3 times and was last to the finish line all 3 times. Here are the margins of time by which I lost and the trap speeds.

Margin /// SS Mph /// Marauder Mph

0.311 ///// 92.44 /// // 93.60
0.292 /// // 90.40 /// // 93.83
0.099 /// // 92.79 /// // 95.09

My question: We started from a dead start, covered the same distance the car with the fastest ET. had the slower Trap Speed.
Could someone explain how this works??? Thanks.

[GarageMahal]

I am far from an expert on drag races but my guess is the SS got a good jump on you off the line leaving you to catch up, which you were doing with your higher top speed but you ran out of track before you could get ahead.

Just my guess however and I am probably wrong ;)

jta

[TripleTransAm]

jta is on the money. The SS may not be accelerating as hard as the MM at the 1320 foot mark. A little more track and you would have passed him.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the clocks start counting only when you trip the starting line beam. That means if your competitor cuts a beautiful light in his Honda Accord and you're caught daydreaming of Pamela Andersson, he will get to the finish line first regardless.

Are the numbers you posted for margin the difference in posted ETs or the margin by which the opponent won? These are not the same. If they are differences in ET (you can do the math and see if it matches the printed margin of win/loss), then my second paragraph above does not apply to your situation at this particular track. However, most tracks I've raced at will report the difference in time between when either racer crossed the finish, which is a function of both ET *and* reaction time.

[BlackHole]

Another thing about your MPH is it shows how much HP your putting to the ground. And this shows that the MM has the SS well covered in that respects.

[Smokie]

TripleTransAm Ok now I am really confused. I thought I had lost all 3 of the races because in all 3 my ET. was Higher. The margin I was posting was the difference between my ET and the other cars ET. Since my ET was always slower I assumed I lost all 3 races. However you posed a question and I went back to slips, I ran in left lane "every time", my last race my ET was 14.795 @ 95.09 mph, my opponent ran 14.696 @ 92.79 so by looking at ET I assumed I lost the race; even though I believe I crossed the finish line before he did. The slip for that race states at the bottom

Left 1st .0202
Right MOV .0812

I am in the left lane, and very confused....who won? Please explain. Thanks.

[DEW34]

smokie look at the time slip and read the reaction time if you had a slower et than his and still won your reaction time was better reaction time is the amount of time it takes you to react to the last yellow , you need to pay attetion to the sixty foot clock tha t will tell you how well the car leaves i run the brackets in a tube chassis mustang with a throttle stop so that i can run supper street nhra10.90 hot rod Ihra 10.90 i can run that number round after round with a throttle stop but if i am slow on the tree i get beat some times by a slower et those two classes are heads up no handicap we run a pro tree .400 if i cut a .470 and they cut a .400 and i run a 10.900 and they run a 10.930 everthing else being equal he stillhas me beat by a .040 because i was .070 slower reaction to the light
hope that helped and idid not confuse any one by the way the car ets 10.90 1.290 sixty footers lol and my trapp speed is only 100- 102 mph (throttles stop)
mike

[Smokie]

DEW34 Thanks for info, I understand better but not completely. I guess I still don't know if I won the last race or not, I'm pretty sure I crossed the finish line first, but I guess that is not (necessarily)how you win in drag racing.

[DEW34]

smoke if it says winner on the slip then you won :O)

[Smokie]

I lost

[RCSignals]

What does "1st " and "MOV " mean?

[Mongoose]

Another consideration is how deep you"stage". A deep stage (closer to the starting line) will result in a lower trap speed. The run is timed not from when the light turns green but from when you break the light beam at the start line. If your opponent stages deep and you stage shallow, he could be as much as 6" ahead of you before the race even begins. The bottom line is that with a shallow stage, you in effect get a slight rolling start before you start the clock thus resulting in a higher mph. since you're accelerating for a longer distance, possibly a lower et. with the rolling start, but a loss due reaction time or loss of traction. Personally, I stage shallow because IMHO staging deep triggers too many red lights. You must also remember that trap speed is the average mph that the last 66' to the finish (NHRA) line is covered in, not your top speed.

[Smokie]

RC I don't know, I was hoping someone that races could tell me.

Mongoose Good explanation, my question remains: If both cars start even (not staggered) does the car that crosses the finish line first the winner or is the lowest ET the winner ????

[Macon Marauder]

My Dad was a drag racer in the late 50's - that was before I was born sadly. I had no idea it was so complicated. Think I'll stick to the "stop light grand prix"...

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by BlackHole
Another thing about your MPH is it shows how much HP your putting to the ground. And this shows that the MM has the SS well covered in that respects.

Yes, considering the two cars are similar weights. The trap speed is related to the horsepower and weight of the vehicle. So, yes, the MM is definitely putting down the numbers.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Smokie
Mongoose Good explanation, my question remains: If both cars start even (not staggered) does the car that crosses the finish line first the winner or is the lowest ET the winner ????

Not Mongoose, but I'll take a stab at it...

Let me put it this way... Get into a bar fight with a big mean mutha. The guy's got huge biceps and enough attitude to make the entire forward line of your favorite team go "uhh... damn...". No chance of winning in this fight...
So you kick him in the nuts and he goes down... hard. And stays down.

Who won? ;)

In other words, whoever gets there first wins the race, no matter how much faster or stronger the loser is.

In your example, if both cars start even and both have identical reaction times and both get the green light at exactly the same time (ie. head-to-head), then it's obvious that the faster car won, since both clocks started counting at EXACTLY the same time.

But if the guy with the stronger car is a little slow on the launch (missus kept him up late last night, he's got a head cold, etc.), then the slower car might actually make it to the finish line first even though the faster car pulled a quicker ET. That difference in reaction time gives the edge to the turtle, and although the hare does the total distance in less time, he does it a bit too late.

[MAD-3R]

Ok, this is also where Torque comes into play.

The Impala's have lots of low end torque, so can accelerate from a dead stop faster then we can. (A body at rest yadda yadda yadda)

But sence we do have the HP advantage, and the longer powerband then the impala's, we accelerate for LONGER then they do.

As for winner's in heads up racing like we did in the time trials, it is the first across the finish line after the light goes green wins. THink of it as a combination reaction time AND elapsed time.

Help?

[Smokie]

TTT and Mad3R Thanks to all that replied, I never looked at the slips much when I was there 'cause I was so damm happy just to be there :D When I got home and started to look at all the little numbers some were obvious what they meant others not quite so ..... with your help I have a better understanding of how it works and maybe talk about it like I at least have some idea what the hell I'm saying. Thanks again it was a great experience.:banana2: :beer: :banana:

[Mongoose]

If both cars start even (not staggered) does the car that crosses the finish line first the winner or is the lowest ET the winner ????
Smokie:
From the NHRA website:

The Basics

A drag race is an acceleration contest from a standing start between two vehicles over a measured distance. The accepted standard for that distance is either a quarter-mile (1,320 feet) or an eighth-mile (660 feet). A drag racing event is a series of such two-vehicle, tournament-style eliminations. The losing driver in each race is eliminated, and the winning drivers progress until one driver remains.

These contests are started by means of an electronic device commonly called a Christmas Tree because of its multicolored starting lights. On each side of the Tree are seven lights: two small amber lights at the top of the fixture, followed in descending order by three larger LED lights, a green bulb, and a red bulb.

Two light beams cross the starting-line area and connect to trackside photocells, which are wired to the Christmas Tree and electronic timers in the control tower. When the front tires of a vehicle break the first light beam, called the prestage beam, the pre-stage light on the Christmas Tree indicates that the racer is approximately seven inches from the starting line.

When the racer rolls forward into the stage beam, the front tires are positioned exactly on the starting line and the stage bulb is lit on the Tree, which indicates that the vehicle is ready to race. When both vehicles are fully staged, the starter will activate the Tree, and each driver will focus on the three large amber lights on his or her side of the Tree.

Depending on the type of racing, all three large amber lights will flash simultaneously, followed four-tenths of a second later by the green light (called a Pro Tree), or the three bulbs will flash consecutively five-tenths of a second apart, followed five-tenths later by the green light (called a Sportsman, or full, Tree).

Two Separate performances are monitored for each run: elapsed time and speed. Upon leaving the staging beams, each vehicle activates an elapsed-time clock, which is stopped when that vehicle reaches the finish line. The start-to-finish clocking is the vehicle's elapsed time (e.t.), which serves to measure performance. Speed is measured in a 66-foot "speed trap" that ends at the finish line. Each lane is timed independently.

<b>The first vehicle across the finish line</b> wins, unless, in applicable categories, it runs quicker than its dial-in or index (see glossary). A racer also may be disqualified for leaving the starting line too soon, leaving the lane boundary (either by crossing the centerline, touching the guardwall or guardrail, or striking a track fixture such as the photocells), failing to stage, or failing a post-run inspection (in NHRA class racing, vehicles usually are weighed and their fuel checked after each run, and a complete engine teardown is done after an event victory).

[Smokie]

Mongoose Thanks, it explains why I crossed the finish line first but I lost, we both broke out but the other guy was closer to his dial-in time.

[kurly]

Originally posted by Smokie
Mongoose Thanks, it explains why I crossed the finish line first but I lost, we both broke out but the other guy was closer to his dial-in time.

Crossing the line first definitely is a plus to me. The SS guy must have had 'conniptions' from the gut regardless . . .

[Smokie]

kurly I have to tell the truth, I raced heads-up against the guy 3 times and he beat me twice, I won the last race and afterwards we shook hands and he complemented my car on the ability to catch him after he was always ahead at first, he was a classy guy and a gentleman.

[kurly]

Originally posted by Smokie
kurly I have to tell the truth, I raced heads-up against the guy 3 times and he beat me twice, I won the last race and afterwards we shook hands and he complemented my car on the ability to catch him after he was always ahead at first, he was a classy guy and a gentleman.

THATS COOL!