Has the health care issue made us forget about the so called War?

[LeoVampire]

I am just wondering if this new Health care issue is keeping us from looking @ everything that is going on in our country right now?

No more talk about the War and our troops.

And the only reason we are looking @ the National Debt is because we are wondering if this Health care issue is going to make it worse or help it out.

When are we going to stop the War and bring our troops home and recover from the debt this has put us into?

[FordNut]

If you're not worried about the rate of rise in the deficit you're nuts.

[Spectragod]

But will we recover from the terrorist attacks in this country?

Unfortunatley, for us to pull out at this time will just make us a bigger target.

[LeoVampire]

I think more than I should with so much free time on my hands.

Right now to be honest I would rather bring the troops home and recover from this war we are getting nothing out of anyways.

They are benifiting from our help and not visa versa.

We need to stop the money we are pouring out for things and to me this is one of the largest problems and could fund so much more on our home soil!

These poor parents losing their son's and daughters should not be dealing with things on both fronts right now!

Losing home's, losing job's, losing their kid's and paying for too many mistakes we are making.

[FordNut]

Yep, we're a target so as long as we've got troops over there the target is in the terrorists' homeland. I'd rather stuff get blown up over there than over here.

And now we've got bleeding heart liberals in power who want to shut down Gitmo and bring the terrorists right on over here.

[FordNut]

We do have an all-volunteer military these days don't we? And they're all adults. And they know there's a war going on.

[LIGHTNIN1]

They had the Commander in Iraq on TV 2 days ago. He said we were going to have a rapid deployment out of Iraq between now and Sept. Nothing was mentioned about Afghanistan so I guess we will see how many of our soldiers we can get killed there.They need to bring the biggest part of them home and secure our borders. Thats not going to happen because they are worried about their new source of voters. Iran is still bubbling up .

[nomad]

When are we going to stop the War and bring our troops home and recover from the debt this has put us into?

The sad part is, bring them home to do what?

Unless they want to run for office, it's a tough job market out there.

They deserve better than a hand out, much better.

[LeoVampire]

Every country faces that chance of it happening.

Keeping a force over there dosn't stop the threat to us.

We just got our eyes opend up for the first time since Perl Harbor.

If they want to nail us I am sure they will find a way to do it eventualy.

We never got the man we wanted for 911 and we waited too long to do it in the first place.

This country needs to recover and the money spent on this would have rebuilt the Twin Towers a few times over.

[LIGHTNIN1]

The sad part is, bring them home to do what?

Unless they want to run for office, it's a tough job market out there.

They deserve better than a hand out, much better.


We need a few good men in November to replace the ones who will be leaving Washington.

[Mr. Man]

Troops will come home after we conquer Iran. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan put us in a position to take Iran on two fronts.

[LeoVampire]

Troops will come home after we conquer Iran. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan put us in a position to take Iran on two fronts.

And the rest of the world will turn against us for sure. I don't think the world want's a new Roman Empire if that is what you think we should become?

No one fights harder than people being invaded by someone else I think Vietnam showed us that.

[FordNut]

Troops will come home after we conquer Iran. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan put us in a position to take Iran on two fronts.

With the current administration bowing to the Arabs and spitting in the face of the Israelis, I dunno.

[FordNut]

Health care is still a major issue here, too. The impact is just now being measured. Lots of seniors are losing or seeing major reductions in their company-sponsored healthcare retirement plans. Lots of those people gave up pay raises throughout their careers in order to have these retirement benefits, which are better than medicare but nowhere near as good as what congress gives themselves. BTW, congress did exempt themselves from having to participate in the new healthcare plan that they're trying to sell the public on. Some of the liberals will blame the corporations for reducing the benefits, but it's actually the taxes associated with healthcare reform, trickle-down...

I think a lot of people are going to figure out they're worse off now.

And the kool-aid people are drinking about all the new money insurance companies will be making from new participants? Think about it from this perspective... If I had insurance, I wouldn't use it because I can't afford the co-pays and deductibles. So why should I pay a few thousand dollars a year for something I won't use? A $750 fine will be taken out of my income tax return, which is a lot cheaper than paying out insurance premiums all year. And if I have an emergency I can still go to the emergency room and they have to treat me. If they find something in the emergency room that requires long-term treatment I can then get insurance because pre-existing condition denials are outlawed. That will drive up insurance costs so premiums will go up for everybody.

On a personal level, the reasons I have carried COBRA insurance between jobs are that my wife needs continued care for allergies and such, and she also has some things that would be considered pre-existing conditions because she has been treated for them in the past. The biggest reason for me to carry the COBRA is so there is no lapse in coverage. Myself, I have no reason to carry the COBRA. If there are no pre-existing condition clauses for insurance, why would I need the letter that shows continued coverage? So in the future, lose a job, quit paying for insurance. Simple as that. Then the rest of the people get to pay higher premiums.

No annual maximums or lifetime maximums on insurance? Who pays for that? Higher premiums for everybody.

Several state Governors have looked at the budgetary implications, I think it will cost my state about $1 Billion in additional funds. Where does that money come from? Higher taxes at the state level.

I think people will wake up before the mid-term elections, maybe it will be impossible to repeal it but big changes will be necessary to fix it.




edit: Forgot about this one.... New taxes on medical device manufacturers. Guess what that means, yep the prices go up for all medical devices. Imaging scanners and such, the medical software (yep, FDA regulates it) for analyzing test results, the new software for electronic medical records, the sutures, the hemostats, the bandaids, the artificial knees and hips, the stents and heart valves. Yep, all this stuff just got more expensive, so their costs get passed on to hospitals and insurance companies, the hospitals pass their part on to the insurance companies, then the insurance companies pass it on to policyholders.

[Paul T. Casey]

We need a strong presence in the Mid East for oil. Plain and simple. We leave Iraq, Iran turns off the spitgot (sic). We need a strong presence in Central Asia for security. Let the hoodlums get a hold of Pakistan's nukes and good bye several world cities. Both of these are worth every cent we spend. Giving some sob who won't help himself free aspirin on my dime isn't worth it. I self insure. I have to work hard to do so. I don't need some socialist movement telling me what I can and can't self fund.

[FordNut]

The country's security is in peril now, too. Not because of the wars, not Gitmo. Because of the actions of the current administration. For one thing, they are intentionally insulting Israel. Those people probably have the most effective intelligence operations in the world. How about British intelligence? Are they going to be really anxious to work with the CIA now, after the current administration released secret info showing how the US and British intelligence operations worked together on some "projects". The publicity has cost several people in British intelligence to lose their jobs.

[Paul T. Casey]

The country's security is in peril now, too. Not because of the wars, not Gitmo. Because of the actions of the current administration. For one thing, they are intentionally insulting Israel. Those people probably have the most effective intelligence operations in the world. How about British intelligence? Are they going to be really anxious to work with the CIA now, after the current administration released secret info showing how the US and British intelligence operations worked together on some "projects". The publicity has cost several people in British intelligence to lose their jobs.

Makes a lot of sense to defocate on our only 2 real allies. And I thought Carter was a dolt.

[LIGHTNIN1]

I don't think we have seen anything yet as bad as it seems. There are no depths that these people won't stoop to make this a third world country. We would be better off with a biker gang or the Corleones in charge of us. At least there is some form of competence and honor among those people. You could replace these people with an organ monkey and be in better shape.

[FordNut]

Makes a lot of sense to defocate on our only 2 real allies. And I thought Carter was a dolt.

No problem, they're working on some new allies to replace them. Like China, N Korea, Russia, Iran, Cuba...

[LeoVampire]

If the White House would not listen to us a few years ago with Bush and most of the public wanting the war to end!

Why do you think it or they would listen to anyone now on this?

And many Bill's and a lot of legislation get's passed and no one get's to vote on it per say. All we can do is voice our opinion to our state reps and senators and so forth and hope the majority vote of the people is carried out.

Most of the time it goes to the highets bidder as far as linning the pockets of the people we elect as to what will happen.

Anyways we quickly drop the subject of anything that we do or do not like and eventualy fall into line so our Government knows it will all blow over eventualy and can handle the flack until something new comes up to distract us from the last thing.

As a Soldier in the Army I fallowed my orders and only questioned them when it put my men under me in unnessasary harms way.

But as a Civy now I have the right to voice my opinion and question things done now and in the past that I had no control over.

Other country's take the protests to the streets and make their opinion's heard but here we would rather hide behind the internet and avoid the conflict and just ***** and gripe about it or attack the people we think are involved in a cloak and dager type move.

I am sure if half the country that opposes anything our Government did showed up in Washinton they would change their minds and take notice and finaly listen.

So until we get the cahoney's to do that you will not beheard until you vote in or out whom ever you hate right now!

[LSp8]

Ever since I arrived in Afghanistan all I see is the same crap on the news every single chance I get a little time to watch the news to see whats going on. Everyone says the war in Afghanistan is the "forgotten war" and it even shows on CNN, FoxNews, etc. It's always either some queer politician getting busted or the health care circle jerk and I end up switching the channel to MTV instead. Maybe it's because I'm young and in good health which is why I'm not really interested but I'd rather hear about issues that can have effects on me right now. It'll all be over someday. maybe, maybe not, who knows but at least I have a job.

[LeoVampire]

Ever since I arrived in Afghanistan all I see is the same crap on the news every single chance I get a little time to watch the news to see whats going on. Everyone says the war in Afghanistan is the "forgotten war" and it even shows on CNN, FoxNews, etc. It's always either some queer politician getting busted or the health care circle jerk and I end up switching the channel to MTV instead. Maybe it's because I'm young and in good health which is why I'm not really interested but I'd rather hear about issues that can have effects on me right now. It'll all be over someday. maybe, maybe not, who knows but at least I have a job.

No one who serves or who has served will forget about you guys and what is happening nor anyone in your family or your friends!

Rather have you home and safe!

[jerrym3]

Here's a question.

If a person chooses not to have health insurance and

a) develops a health issue (not just a simple cold) that requires tests, specialists, operations, etc, or

b) goes to an ER due to an incident that could not be forseen, and not the fault of any other individual or entity, or

c) requires assistance in giving birth

who should pick up the tab if that person cannot pay the bill?

[Paul T. Casey]

Here's a question.

If a person chooses not to have health insurance and

a) develops a health issue (not just a simple cold) that requires tests, specialists, operations, etc, or

b) goes to an ER due to an incident that could not be forseen, and not the fault of any other individual or entity, or

c) requires assistance in giving birth

who should pick up the tab if that person cannot pay the bill?

Why cannot that person be held responsible for their own bill? I'm not talking a lump sum, but maybe a reasonable payment plan. You'd be surprised how Doctors and Hospitals are willing to work with you if they know this stuff up front. It's when you (not you personally) try to stiff them.

[LeoVampire]

Why cannot that person be held responsible for their own bill? I'm not talking a lump sum, but maybe a reasonable payment plan. You'd be surprised how Doctors and Hospitals are willing to work with you if they know this stuff up front. It's when you (not you personally) try to stiff them.

So who decieds what is a reasonable payment plan? Let's say someone on unemployment who is having a hard time paying for food for his family and rent to keep a roof over their heads?

If you tell them right now you can't swing it or can only do maybe $10.00 to $25.00 a month it goes into collections most of the time because they are tired of waiting for the cash.

And if you get sick or injured again before it is paid off they get much more agressive about the money you owe. Phone calls every day, letters in the mail detailing the bill and what you owe.

Gets a little discouraging to say the least when your trying to find a job and tends to make people sick in more ways than one.

If you own a house they take you to court and get a lean put on your house.

[Paul T. Casey]

Even if it goes to collection, if you are making $25 a week payments, and are on time with them, any judge will find for you. Yes, the reasonable payments you stated for someone on UEI or under employed is good. It all helps. Part of your bill from the Dr/Hospital is to cover the deadbeats. Eliminate the need to pass this cost on and your bill goes down. Eliminate ludicrous lawsuits, (tort reform) your bill goes down. IMHO, if the doctor isn't drunk, or something along those lines, then he or she should be allowed to make an honest mistake. They are not out there hurting people on purpose. You should see my cousin's mal-practice insurance bill. He's an anethisiologist (sic), the guy who puts you to sleep. If he didn't have to pass that cost on, he'd be able to about half his prices.

[Paul T. Casey]

On the other hand, if you're living large and trying to pay $10 a week on a bill, then perhap you need a lein on your house. It all boils down to common sense, something the current gov't doesn't seem to possess. Way too many years of stuffing the courts (especially in the northeast and Calif.) with liberal boobs for judges.

[LeoVampire]

Even if it goes to collection, if you are making $25 a week payments, and are on time with them, any judge will find for you. Yes, the reasonable payments you stated for someone on UEI or under employed is good. It all helps. Part of your bill from the Dr/Hospital is to cover the deadbeats. Eliminate the need to pass this cost on and your bill goes down. Eliminate ludicrous lawsuits, (tort reform) your bill goes down. IMHO, if the doctor isn't drunk, or something along those lines, then he or she should be allowed to make an honest mistake. They are not out there hurting people on purpose. You should see my cousin's mal-practice insurance bill. He's an anethisiologist (sic), the guy who puts you to sleep. If he didn't have to pass that cost on, he'd be able to about half his prices.

When they do that it hurts their credit rating so if your making payments why send it into collections and not keep it in house?

Because they want thier money NOW and a collection agency pays them that money and then start to charge interest on what you owe.

To me that is greed and punishment for being sick and trying to pay your debt and figuring out a way to keep you in debt.

[MrBluGruv]

It still boils down to making something into being for everyone when it isn't appropriate for everyone.

Single biggest thing that makes me oppose this action more than any other, is the thought of paying a penalty for choosing to take care of my own health and insurance.

Your living situation is a lot more of what you make it than some people care to think too, the sky isn't forever sunny, so if you aren't prepared in some way for a bad situation (i'm talking big picture here, not just an ER visit for major injury) it gets harder to have sympathy. I can't stand it when people live so extremely on margin and then complain about bills and interest payments. I'm not calling anyone here out, but just saying... our family bought our last 3 cars straight cash, one was new, one was about a year old, the other was the MM, and we are by NO means wealthy, just smart money management.

[jerrym3]

Insurance (health, auto, house, etc) is required to protect us against catastrophes, not the everyday pidley stuff. If a window breaks in my house, I can afford to get it fixed. But, if a tree falls over and destroys my house, I'd be very stupid not to have had insurance coverage.

If I need to see a doctor because I have a bad cold, no big deal. I can afford it. But, if I have to see a doctor for something much more serious, I'd better be insured.

Will the doctors/hospitals work with you? First time, maybe. But, what if you need repeat visits or treatment? And, have you seen the cost of drugs lately?

And, why should they? If you can afford insurance and do not get it, why should they provide service at a discount, or for free?

Doesn't matter how well you take care of yourself, you can still come down with something serious or be part of a "by chance" incident.

My brother-in-law (early 50's) takes care of himself, excersizes (loves to golf), and wound up getting three stents. Fortunately, he was covered by his insurance.

If you don't have health insurance, you're playing a famous Russian game.

But hey, it's your choice (maybe, maybe not) not to be insured, but should I pay if you experience something catastrophic and can't pay the bill? Or, should we leave you to suffer and maybe die?

You know the answer. We will not leave you to suffer.

Bottom line, this is a tricky subject.

[CBT]

Insurance (health, auto, house, etc) is required to protect us against catastrophes, not the everyday pidley stuff. If a window breaks in my house, I can afford to get it fixed. But, if a tree falls over and makes my house inhabitable, I'd be very stupid not to have insurance coverage.


How bad is your house that a tree falling on it would improve it?

[FordNut]

A couple of things about health insurance that are unique to that industry.

Any other type of insurance is for catastrophic events. Auto insurance has deductibles so you're better off paying for repairs from minor accidents yourself. Home insurance is similar. Neither one pays for routine maintenance parts (prescription drugs) or labor (doctor bills) but if you have a major event (tree falls on the house or car gets crashed) then they will pay for all of it except the deductible. Health insurance is expected to pay for routine maintenance as well as major events, so it is assumed to be a pre-paid maintenance plan as well as the catastrophic coverage. This isn't the way health insurance originally operated, and it has grown into a business model that is not sustainable without dramatically increasing rates.

I remember a time when you paid your medical bills and submitted the receipts or invoices to your insurance company for reimbursement. Now the transaction is directly between the provider and insurance company. This has caused the healthcare providers to increase staff dramatically just to handle insurance claims management. This increased operating cost gets passed on to all of the customers. It would make sense that the healthcare providers would give a discount to cash-paying customers because there are lower expenses involved, but in fact the cash customers get charged more than the insurance companies because of the price breaks for "preferred provider network" agreements.

In most other industries, the pricing for a service or procedure is posted up-front. In the healthcare industry the estimated cost usually isn't available up-front. So it is difficult for a patient to try to find more economical solutions. Insurance companies contribute to the rising medical costs by working out their agreements with service providers so that some are paid more than others for the exact same services. A far better approach would be to set a standard payment for a procedure, specifying that the patient is responsible for the additional charges. That is how dental insurance works and if I have a dentist who charges much more than the "usual and customary" charges I can choose to pay the rest and stay with him or find a different dentist for future care.

[jerrym3]

oops

Bad word choice.

[LIGHTNIN1]

If we are forced by our all caring bunch of clowns in Washington to buy insurance something the majority rejects, what else will BIG DADDY think we need? The list is endless and Pres Obama said this is just the start. Where would you draw the line? Maybe they think everyone should buy a Dodge Neon since they own the car companies or the smallest crapola car GM makes. Maybe they mandate we all have to eat oatmeal twice a day. Look at anything they have started and they have always greatly expanded the original legislation.

[SC Cheesehead]

If we are forced by our all caring bunch of clowns in Washington to buy insurance something the majority rejects, what else will BIG DADDY think we need? The list is endless and Pres Obama said this is just the start. Where would you draw the line? Maybe they think everyone should buy a Dodge Neon since they own the car companies or the smallest crapola car GM makes. Maybe they mandate we all have to eat oatmeal twice a day. Look at anything they have started and they have always greatly expanded the original legislation.

Atlas Shrugged....

[FordNut]

Still hoping the Supreme Court helps us out.

Funny how O dressed them down in the state of the union address and now they will have to rule on his main "accomplishment".

[SC Cheesehead]

Still hoping the Supreme Court helps us out.

Funny how O dressed them down in the state of the union address and now they will have to rule on his main "accomplishment".


Yeah, I'm hoping for "what goes around, comes around..." :rolleyes:

[Pops]

Atlas Shrugged....

I am with you Rex! Now where are they hiding out?:( I wonder how many on this site have read the book?

[SC Cheesehead]

I am with you Rex! Now where are they hiding out?:( I wonder how many on this site have read the book?


Yeah, who is John Gault? (And where is he when we really need him?)

[CBT]

They had the Commander in Iraq on TV 2 days ago. He said we were going to have a rapid deployment out of Iraq between now and Sept. Nothing was mentioned about Afghanistan so I guess we will see how many of our soldiers we can get killed there.They need to bring the biggest part of them home and secure our borders. Thats not going to happen because they are worried about their new source of voters. Iran is still bubbling up .

Ranchers are being killed now....

Ariz. Rancher Found Dead On Property

'Bad Intentions Of One Sick, Sorry Individual,' Sheriff Says

Elias Johnson (elias.johnson@kpho.com)
Reporter, KPHO.com


POSTED: 9:08 pm MST March 28,2010
UPDATED: 8:48 pm MST March 29,2010
DOUGLAS, Ariz. -- A prominent southern Arizona rancher was found shot to death just before midnight Saturday on his property about 35 miles northeast of Douglas, the Cochise County Sheriff's Office said.
Robert Krentz, 58, was a third generation rancher who was inducted into the Arizona Farming and Ranching Hall of Fame one year ago. He has served as president of the Cochise-Graham Cattlegrowers Association.

"We know this," Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever said at an afternoon news briefing. "Robert was shot. His dog was shot. He was in an all-terrain vehicle and he never got out of the vehicle."

"There is absolutely no reason this had to happen other than the bad intentions of one sick, sorry individual that we hope to be able to catch up to very quickly," Dever said.

Dever told the Arizona Daily Star retaliation may have a role to play in the death. The newspaper said the victim's brother told the Border Patrol there had been drug smuggling activity on the ranch.

The newspaper said agents discovered 290 pounds of marijuana on the ranch. Eight illegal immigrants were arrested in connection with the alleged activity, the newspaper said.

"There is absolutely no reason this had to happen other than the bad intentions of one sick, sorry individual that we hope to be able to catch up to very quickly."

- Sheriff Larry Dever



At Monday's news briefing, Dever said it appears Krentz tried to drive away after he was shot but lost conciousness about a thousand feet from the scene.

Investigators said they found foot tracks leading away from the area. They said they followed them for about 20 miles to the Mexican border.

"The cold-blooded killing of an Arizona rancher is a sad and sobering reminder of the threats to public safety that exist in our border communities," said U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona's 8th Congressional District.

"If, as suspected, this tragedy was connected to smugglers or drug cartels, the federal government must respond appropriately," Giffords said. "All options should be on the table, including sending more Border Patrol agents to the area and deploying the National Guard."

Minutemen member Chris Simcox said news of the death was unsettling but not a surprise.

"There's a war going on in Mexico and its spilling across our borders," Simcox said. "He's been working with Border Patrol for years, begging and pleading for help with his property being vandalized and his home being robbed," Simcox said.

"He's always been a humanitarian," Simcox said. "He always gives water and food to the people he finds in distress which seems to be the case last night and he called his wife and said he was giving some water to illegals and said to call Border Patrol."


http://www.kpho.com/images/structures/buttons/button_enlarge.gif
http://www.kpho.com/2010/0329/22988902_200X150.jpg
(http://www.kpho.com/news/22983467/detail.html#)Robert Krentz



Krentz's death comes on the heels of an announcement that the national minutemen group was breaking up, leaving splinter cell groups in an "every man for himself" fight against illegal immigrants.

"It's reach critical proportions down there where we can't guarantee now that we're not going to come across these drug mules or an armed individual and have to defend ourselves and the national organization is not willing to take responsibility for that anymore," Simcox said.

Simcox said there are still people on the border, ready to defend the country and themselves against anyone who poses a threat.

"We're capturing heavily-armed drug mules carrying AK-47s and MAC-10s on U.S. soil; that's an act of terrorism," Simcox said.

[Paul T. Casey]

I am with you Rex! Now where are they hiding out?:( I wonder how many on this site have read any books?

Fixed that for you. :(

[FordNut]

Ranchers are being killed now....

"If, as suspected, this tragedy was connected to smugglers or drug cartels, the federal government must respond appropriately," Giffords said. "All options should be on the table, including sending more Border Patrol agents to the area and deploying the National Guard." .....

Krentz's death comes on the heels of an announcement that the national minutemen group was breaking up, leaving splinter cell groups in an "every man for himself" fight against illegal immigrants. .....

Simcox said there are still people on the border, ready to defend the country and themselves against anyone who poses a threat.

"We're capturing heavily-armed drug mules carrying AK-47s and MAC-10s on U.S. soil; that's an act of terrorism," Simcox said.

Kalifornia's solution to the drug problem is to legalize it. Wait 'til the heavily armed kingpins take over the state...