New az immigration law... Almost...

[jdenning002]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/arizona-state-law-promises-toughest-illegal-immigration/story?id=10212698

[FordNut]

That's a good move. I hope it passes and then other states follow suit.

[merc]

Move 'em on, head 'em up
Head 'em up, move 'em on
Move 'em on, head 'em up
Rawhide

[Phrog_gunner]

I'm glad someone has the minimals to actually enforce the laws.

[Vortex]

Why isnt this posted in the correct section?

[Phrog_gunner]

Why isnt this posted in the correct section?

Why isn't your post on topic?

[justbob]

I love the idea. All they have to do is carry identification, which is the law for everyone anyways, and then they will be fine, IF they are legall. It's about tiime something is done about it! This will no doubt slow the crime rate and boost jobs. Where is the negative in this if you are a legal citizen with nothing to hide?

[FordNut]

They had to get rid of Napolitano to do it. I guess the Arizonans appreciate Obama for that.

[babbage]

About time someone did something! I think we should pay the mexican federalies $100 for every person shot dead trying to cross the border illegally. It would save America a lot of money and I think you'd find it would reduce illegal immigration.

[dakslim]

"The bill's supporters say a local crackdown has become a necessity because the federal government has failed to adequately seal the borders or actively enforce its laws. They blame Arizona's spiraling crime and unemployment (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Unemployment) rates on its large population of illegal immigrants. "

Amen to that...this "do nothing", unless it's stupid, Congress forces states to do their work for them.

[BAD MERC]

I am tired of this Country proclaiming to be "The best" then folding like a wuss and being so soft and politically correct. A majority of problems from state budgets, hospitals, health care and business ethics are all related to the insurgence of millions of criminal invaders. Calling them 'illegal immigrants' is the stupidest oxymoron I can imagine. Calling them 'undocumented citizens' is the political correctness hall of fame winner. They come here illegally - they KNOW they are here illegally. I feel sorry for nobody that gets their dumb ass deported and has their family torn apart after knowingly establishing those types of roots in a Country you're not even supposed to be in. Good for Arizona!

[FordNut]

The idiotic approach the liberals have is to just legalize them. That's BS. What a slap in the face of all the people who have gone through years of paperwork, legal hassles, and tens of thousands in expenses so they could come here legally. I have 2 friends and a cousin who married women from another country and have gone through the trouble to do it the right way, now the federal government wants to tell them they should have just snuck in instead?

[Hotrauder]

"The really dangerous impact is the creation of a new state crime related to trespassing. If law enforcement has a reasonable suspicion that someone is undocumented they can be stopped and forced to prove they're a U.S. citizen. If they can't prove it, they can be arrested," said Jennifer Allen, director of the Border Action Network, an immigrant advocacy group,


This is the lamest arguement I have heard yet. Who other than politicians can take these people seriously? Way beyond time to retire all politicians after 2 terms max.

[Haggis]

"The really dangerous impact is the creation of a new state crime related to trespassing. If law enforcement has a reasonable suspicion that someone is undocumented they can be stopped and forced to prove they're a U.S. citizen. If they can't prove it, they can be arrested," said Jennifer Allen, director of the Border Action Network, an immigrant advocacy group,


This is the lamest arguement I have heard yet. Who other than politicians can take these people seriously? Way beyond time to retire all politicians after 2 terms max.

When my Grandfather came to this country he had to carry around an ID card stating that he was an American Citizen and he immigrated from Germany. If it was good enough for him it is good enough for all other immgrtants, legal or illegal.

[Phrog_gunner]

"The really dangerous impact is the creation of a new state crime related to trespassing. If law enforcement has a reasonable suspicion that someone is undocumented they can be stopped and forced to prove they're a U.S. citizen. If they can't prove it, they can be arrested," said Jennifer Allen, director of the Border Action Network, an immigrant advocacy group,

So under that same theory it is dangerous to arrest a bloody guy with a gun for suspicion of murder?

[LIGHTNIN1]

Now that healthcare has been crammed down our throat Congress says Immigration is one of their next Priorities. Hopefully we can have some CHANGE in November before that happens.

[Cosgrandmarquis]

Man, I thought that some of you guys were nice people.
But some of you people sound like a bunch of RED NECKS.

[Mr. Man]

I love the idea. All they have to do is carry identification, which is the law for everyone anyways, and then they will be fine, IF they are legal. It's about time something is done about it! This will no doubt slow the crime rate and boost jobs. Where is the negative in this if you are a legal citizen with nothing to hide?
To the best of my knowledge there is no provision in U.S. law that states Americans must carry identification at all times. Drivers licences and such are only needed when doing such activities.

[justbob]

Your right Eric. But atleast in IL. if over 18 you must possess a state issued picture ID at all times, whether it be a license, state ID, or even a FOID card. I just kinda figured all states were close to ours. It's really not that much to ask for and it would only benefit you if you are a minority to prove your rights as such. If the legal citizens can't come up with something of the sort in Arizona, then either they are bull headed and don't want to make it easier to prove their citizenship or they are illegal. I wish they would do something like this in my state to secure more jobs. Our contractors are charging the same rate here no matter on the price of labor.

[jdenning002]

There are no Federal Laws nor any state laws that mandate that someone must obatin any kind of ID or carry one.

Driving is a different story, you must get an ID and carry it.

This will be the interesting part, there are ways to conduct records checks based on a name/DOB/POB that officers can check for people suspected of being illegal.

Not so long ago to cross the border all someone had to say was "I am American" and that was it, if they seemed honest, they got in...

Then birth certificates were enough... (eaisly forgable)

Now everyone has to have a passport...

[Phrog_gunner]

Man, I thought that some of you guys were nice people.
But some of you people sound like a bunch of RED NECKS.

When a person lacks facts or logic, they can always resort to name calling in lieu of adding something intelligent to the conversation.

[FordNut]

Man, I thought that some of you guys were nice people.
But some of you people sound like a bunch of RED NECKS.

And quite proud of it, thank you.

[FordNut]

Now that healthcare has been crammed down our throat Congress says Immigration is one of their next Priorities. Hopefully we can have some CHANGE in November before that happens.

A big problem is that they should have taken care of immigration first. That in itself would have dramatically reduced health care costs. Ever been to an emergency room? The staff there needs a translator because there are so many illegals.

[Phrog_gunner]

A big problem is that they should have taken care of immigration first. That in itself would have dramatically reduced health care costs. Ever been to an emergency room? The staff there needs a translator because there are so many illegals.

A one page bill that allows hospitals to check citizen status before giving free health care, doesn't cost the taxpayer a dime, and doesn't require a new bureaucracy to monitor it? That would NEVER work.

[Leadfoot281]

Man, I thought that some of you guys were nice people.
But some of you people sound like a bunch of RED NECKS.


Hey, don't say that like it's a bad thing! This country would be pretty boring without them.

[Mr. Man]

No hospital anywhere would or should deny a person emergency health care no matter who they are. It's part of that hippocratic oath thingy. Blaming illegals for seeking hospital care when they are sick is like shooting the bear when its already dead. U.S border personnel need more resources and interception latitude in keeping the people out in the first place.

[LeoVampire]

There are no Federal Laws nor any state laws that mandate that someone must obatin any kind of ID or carry one.

Driving is a different story, you must get an ID and carry it.

This will be the interesting part, there are ways to conduct records checks based on a name/DOB/POB that officers can check for people suspected of being illegal.

Not so long ago to cross the border all someone had to say was "I am American" and that was it, if they seemed honest, they got in...

Then birth certificates were enough... (eaisly forgable)

Now everyone has to have a passport...

Posted @ the DMV it even states they are now issuing non Dirvers License Photo Id's and that you are subject to presnt one when asked by a Police officer.

Granted it is a misdameaner offence but you can be issued a ticket and detained until proof of Identity is confirmed by a family member if they want to be a prick about it or bring you to your house to show a proper ID.

But slowly state's are starting to make having an ID on you at all times madatory since the 911 incident. Even kid's over a certain age have to have an ID on them now here in Connecticut.

[Phrog_gunner]

No hospital anywhere would or should deny a person emergency health care no matter who they are. It's part of that hippocratic oath thingy. Blaming illegals for seeking hospital care when they are sick is like shooting the bear when its already dead. U.S border personnel need more resources and interception latitude in keeping the people out in the first place.

The care in a real EMERGENCY isn't the problem. It's the people that clog up the ER for a band-aid or a cough drop because they can't be turned away and don't want to pay for a visit to the general practitioner.

[BAD MERC]

The care in a real EMERGENCY isn't the problem. It's the people that clog up the ER for a band-aid or a cough drop because they can't be turned away and don't want to pay for a visit to the general practitioner.


THANK YOU!!! Using the ER as your HMO may be acceptable to third-world idiots with no education or conscience, in America everything comes with a price.

[LIGHTNIN1]

Man, I thought that some of you guys were nice people.
But some of you people sound like a bunch of RED NECKS.

Guess you must of misjudged some of us for being NICE PEOPLE. Sorry for YOUR mistake.

[babbage]

No hospital anywhere would or should deny a person emergency health care no matter who they are. It's part of that hippocratic oath thingy. Blaming illegals for seeking hospital care when they are sick is like shooting the bear when its already dead. U.S border personnel need more resources and interception latitude in keeping the people out in the first place.

Illegals sneak into America just so they can get emergency room service. That is wrong. Healthcare is a privilege NOT a right! Why must we the taxpayers pay for this?

How would you like to be personally responsible for ANY person who showed up at your house that was hungry? Oh and you'd be forced to feed them -you would have to personally pay for any food they ate.

[Phrog_gunner]

Illegals sneak into America just so they can get emergency room service. That is wrong. Healthcare is a privilege NOT a right! Why must we the taxpayers pay for this?

How would you like to be personally responsible for ANY person who showed up at your house that was hungry? Oh and you'd be forced to feed them -you would have to personally pay for any food they ate.

Don't give the gov't any ideas! :mad2:

[Mr. Man]

Posted @ the DMV it even states they are now issuing non Drivers License Photo Id's and that you are subject to present one when asked by a Police officer.

Granted it is a misdemeanor offence but you can be issued a ticket and detained until proof of Identity is confirmed by a family member if they want to be a prick about it or bring you to your house to show a proper ID.

But slowly state's are starting to make having an ID on you at all times mandatory since the 911 incident. Even kid's over a certain age have to have an ID on them now here in Connecticut.

While I usually have a drivers licence on me I often have no ID when working in the yard. Now I don't expect the police to question me in my own yard but if they ever did we could have a problem. 911 seems to be the scapegoat for more and more government intrusion in our daily lives. I personally will not fly anymore unless it's and absolute emergency.
It may sound harsh but I could support a closed border policy. Yet to be determined is what that exactly means. I would also support a policy that makes guest worker papers readily available to those who qualify and create a no excuses policy to those who try to break the rules. They'd get the boot and I would not let them qualify for return acceptance.
I would also support a new Constitutional amendment that says just because you are born in America doesn't necessarily mean you're an American. You would need to be born to parents that are American, at least one anyway. If your parents are applying for legal status then the outcome of that application will determine your child's status. If you are born to non-American parents then you are whatever they are. I think a law like this would keep many illegals from coming here in the first place.

[MrBluGruv]

I think carrying an ID at all times is worth it if it can insure the success of such a law. It's quite literally no extra work to make sure it's in your pocket or wallet. For some of us in the larger, more expansive states, it isn't really conceivable to get places by yourself without driving anyways, so you'd be hardpressed to be out and about WITHOUT ID.

[LeoVampire]

While I usually have a drivers licence on me I often have no ID when working in the yard. Now I don't expect the police to question me in my own yard but if they ever did we could have a problem. 911 seems to be the scapegoat for more and more government intrusion in our daily lives. I personally will not fly anymore unless it's and absolute emergency.
It may sound harsh but I could support a closed border policy. Yet to be determined is what that exactly means. I would also support a policy that makes guest worker papers readily available to those who qualify and create a no excuses policy to those who try to break the rules. They'd get the boot and I would not let them qualify for return acceptance.
I would also support a new Constitutional amendment that says just because you are born in America doesn't necessarily mean you're an American. You would need to be born to parents that are American, at least one anyway. If your parents are applying for legal status then the outcome of that application will determine your child's status. If you are born to non-American parents then you are whatever they are. I think a law like this would keep many illegals from coming here in the first place.


Many came to America over the years in our past that waited to get legal status and had children that were automaticly called American's if the parents had a green card and made it past the Quarenteen.

Might have even been your Grand or Great Grandparents that fell into that clause.

During the revolution imigrants comming off the boats were subject to the draft once they hit American soil and automaticly became citizens.

[Phrog_gunner]

Many came to America over the years in our past that waited to get legal status and had children that were automaticly called American's if the parents had a green card and made it past the Quarenteen.

Might have even been your Grand or Great Grandparents that fell into that clause.

During the revolution imigrants comming off the boats were subject to the draft once they hit American soil and automaticly became citizens.

That's fine when they come here LEGALLY.

[FordNut]

It may sound harsh but I could support a closed border policy. Yet to be determined is what that exactly means. I would also support a policy that makes guest worker papers readily available to those who qualify and create a no excuses policy to those who try to break the rules. They'd get the boot and I would not let them qualify for return acceptance.
I would also support a new Constitutional amendment that says just because you are born in America doesn't necessarily mean you're an American. You would need to be born to parents that are American, at least one anyway. If your parents are applying for legal status then the outcome of that application will determine your child's status. If you are born to non-American parents then you are whatever they are. I think a law like this would keep many illegals from coming here in the first place.

Great ideas.

[Vortex]

A country that cannot or does not enforce its border and/or immigration policies will not be a country for long.

[Mr. Man]

Illegals sneak into America just so they can get emergency room service. That is wrong. Health care is a privilege NOT a right! Why must we the taxpayers pay for this?

How would you like to be personally responsible for ANY person who showed up at your house that was hungry? Oh and you'd be forced to feed them -you would have to personally pay for any food they ate.

Your first statement is a fallacy. Do you think German, English, French etc people who stay past their visas are here for the health care? People come here for the opportunity America offers.
That's why I said the border patrol people need more latitude in keeping people who come here illegally or over stay their visas the resources to do something about getting them out.
I think you may want to qualify your thought that health care is a privilege not a right. For whom do you mean? If for some reason you fall on hard times and can't afford health care should we turn a blind eye towards you? I think not. I don't believe people should be left to die just because they can't afford health care, legal or otherwise, perhaps you do. I do believe there are ways to keep people who shouldn't be here out but our government is reluctant or unable to do so. If we could keep them out in the first place then we could start to get a hold on the cost of health care.

[sailsmen]

The only viable solution is to enforce the existing immigration laws.

The reason Mexico is a country w/ few economic opportunities is because of Mexicans who are either corrupt or tolerating corruption.

Send the 20% of Mexicans that are in the US illegally back to Mexico and Mexico will begin a transformation with in 6 months. President Eisenhower did it with operation "Wet Back".

The Mexican Gov't teaches courses, distributes brochures and issues fake IDs all for the purpose of illegally living in the USA.

Allow illegal immigrants to continue to come to the US as an option to staying in Mexico and changing their own country and Mexico will never have economic opportunities for it's citizens.

We are supporting the corruption of Mexico, which is resulting in many Mexicans being trapped in poverty.

[FordNut]

Your first statement is a fallacy. Do you think German, English, French etc people who stay past their visas are here for the health care? People come here for the opportunity America offers.
That's why I said the border patrol people need more latitude in keeping people who come here illegally or over stay their visas the resources to do something about getting them out..
Most people who come on legally issued work or education visas are paying their way.


A one page bill that allows hospitals to check citizen status before giving free health care, doesn't cost the taxpayer a dime, and doesn't require a new bureaucracy to monitor it? That would NEVER work.

I think you may want to qualify your thought that health care is a privilege not a right. For whom do you mean? If for some reason you fall on hard times and can't afford health care should we turn a blind eye towards you? I think not. I don't believe people should be left to die just because they can't afford health care, legal or otherwise, perhaps you do. I do believe there are ways to keep people who shouldn't be here out but our government is reluctant or unable to do so. If we could keep them out in the first place then we could start to get a hold on the cost of health care.
How about checking citizenship status, then treating the patient. If they're legal then that's something that needs to be addressed as a healthcare issue. It they're illegal, then after treatment they should be taken into custody by INS and taken to the border.

[Mr. Man]

Most people who come on legally issued work or education visas are paying their way.

Trueish. Many who overstay their welcome rely on emergency care as they are young and the jobs they get are low paying or temporary and do not offer insurance.



How about checking citizenship status, then treating the patient. If they're legal then that's something that needs to be addressed as a health care issue. It they're illegal, then after treatment they should be taken into custody by INS(It's ICE now) and taken to the border.

I could support this if a system could be created that did not impede on my rights as a legit citizen to carry some sort of identity card. I am against the idea of a National identity card. I use proper ID that tells authority I am licenced to drive or that I have passed the certification rules for hunting etc. The best way to insure no illegals use our health care system is to not let them in in the first place. I do not want a country that has its enforcement arm asking people at random "Papers Please"

[teamrope]

Man, I thought that some of you guys were nice people.
But some of you people sound like a bunch of RED NECKS.

I don't know how it is where you live, but in western Washington state where there is no agriculture to speak of, there has been an explosion of illegal immigrants from our neighbor to the south over the last10 years..... They are taking more than just the jobs most Americans wont do. They are starting to horn in on some of the trades for much less than anyone can afford to do and support a family. I lost the 1st job I had once I retired from the Army after 3 very short months for that reason.

[1 Bad Merc]

I think America needs to control the borders.

[Mr. Man]

I don't know how it is where you live, but in western Washington state where there is no agriculture to speak of, there has been an explosion of illegal immigrants from our neighbor to the south over the last10 years..... They are taking more than just the jobs most Americans wont do. They are starting to horn in on some of the trades for much less than anyone can afford to do and support a family. I lost the 1st job I had once I retired from the Army after 3 very short months for that reason.

I feel your pain. We have that problem with legit Pa workers coming to NJ and undercutting NJ labor costs. Because property taxes are much lower in PA they are willing to work for less.
As far as illegals go in undercutting its up to the homeowners to ask for insurance papers and licences from them which I doubt they have. This is more of an education issue for homeowners who think getting the cheapest price is best. Wait till an uninsured, plumber burns their house down and they find they they have no recourse because they were using an unlicensed plumber.

[CBT]

Wow, I'd never have thought AZ would kick this off. Good for them. :beer:

[LIGHTNIN1]

We'll see if they legalize these people in Washington to get their votes as has been talked about.:mad2: