Front kit 14" update

[Todd TCE]

I hope to have my hands on a new caliper for the proposed 14" kit next week.

While the price will be 'up' as I have said before, there is an outside chance that it will fit in the stock wheel afterall, but with a mild wheel spacer.

The new caliper will be a 'narrow' body six and thus the same dimensions as the current one used on the 13" kit, the issue willl be more spoke clearance still however.

There are no plans now from Wilwood to make a 'full size' beefy caliper for all out racing applications that could sub for this application. The one proposed to be used is the same as the new Corvette kits and their 14" rotors.

[Todd TCE]

Have the new caliper in shop.

This is a raqdial mount caliper thus will require some bracket changes and or custom radial brackets to adapt to the current TCE ones.

Hope to see the new rotor here early next week. The rotor will present some other issues I'll need to deal with too.

The 'plan' is to be able to use much the same parts on both kits. This more for costs than anything else.

[Directedby]

TCE -

Where are you with the rear calipers?

[Todd TCE]

See the thread here on rears. I update it as often as I can for info.

[Todd TCE]

Caliper in hand, I have submitted the final bracket change to mount this bad boy.

The wider rotor (1.10 vs 1.81) will require some minor grinding of the cast alum knuckle too. I cannot get the rotor down to the 1.10 size exactly so this may prove to be the only solution. It can be done with a hand file really- removing the casting number and high corners is all that is needed.

The 14 is larger of course and as soon as I have the test bracket to build from and confirm final numbers it's a done deal.

Sorry this seems to take so long but working with sub contractors, new parts, wrong parts, new test fits, all with no full car can slow you down!

This being said; anyone wishing to be the first on the block to own a 14" kit call me or email me soon. I'll put up a modest discount to you.

[JET]

Todd,
What do the calipers look like? How about posting a picture eeven before there installed.

[Todd TCE]

The ONLY caliper of choice for this one is the new Wilwood BSL6nR caliper...got that?

That's Billet Superlite Six, narrow, Radial mount caliper.

This is the same caliper used on WW Corvette kits now from their own catalog.

It is very much the same appearance as the current caliper used on the 13.1 kits but is 'radial' mount meaning mounted on 'studs' of sorts rather than tabs of the smalle kit. It then requires a converter bracket of sorts to take back to tab design....kinda redundent but that's how its down.

Let me see if I can take a pic of it as it sits now at least tomorrow. I've got shots of the 13.1 if you'd like them. From more than a foot away you'd never see the difference except for the slightly larger diameter.

How do I go about posting a pic on here? I've never seen a forum with direct file to forum type posts. Most require a link to it somewhere else.



! Wait, try this: http://www.wilwood.com/products/kits/c514/index.asp

[carlosrg]

Hi Todd I figured I share the pics with you. FYI we painted them red the customer wanted them. And yes we powder coated the wheels black as well. Todd I hope you enjoy the pics.


http://pages.prodigy.net/carlosrg/TCE/DSC01005.JPG
http://pages.prodigy.net/carlosrg/TCE/DSC01006.JPG

[Todd TCE]

Thanks Carlos, thanks much.
Any performance or install comments to add?

Now off to Best Buy for a big screen.....! lol

[carlosrg]

The brake system causes the car to stop like a freight train. But seriously repeated stop and go on the brakes showed no fade. The stock brakes were a bit on the weak side and not really upto the power the motor was putting out. The install went smooth and from a pure performance stand point the brake system is truely a work of art.
All it takes is a few stops to realize that they are well worth there money if anything they are a deal at there current price point.
I highly recommend them to anyone/everyone out there thinking about a brake system. Todd delivers on Looks, Performance, Quality, and customer service.

[gonzo50]

carlosrg, I've noticed that the contact area on the rotor from the pad is not a complete uniform appearance, it seems that the rotor is either too big for the caliper (pads), or the caliper is too small for this rotor.

You can see where the rotor is worn or used, only about two thirds of the rotor is being effective, the other one third of the rotor is just extra weight because it's not being used.

If for example, you had a rotor that wasn't crossed drilled like you have, it was a solid one, and you needed to "turn the rotor" to get it true, it wouldn't be an even process because the top two thirds of the rotor is the only worn area, the other one third of the rotor is still new.

I looked at the stock rotor and caliper on my Marauder and it's a complete contact fitment, the full rotor is being used when the brakes are applied, front and rear.

I would assume that a rolling mass of this size should benifit from larger brakes only if the entire surface of the rotor was being used, in this case the surface size being used amounts to the same surface size being used on the stock brakes.

I hope this makes sense, it's just my opinion from my observation. Thanks. ;)

[Todd TCE]

Looks like we need an education on brakes here....

Larger rotors always move the pads out further from center line. It's call the effective radius in many spec books. NO pad is effective that is short and fat. Effective pad use is veritcal and long. This is where it get's it's leverage from.

If we took your point then the entire rotor would have pad on it from the 'hat' to the outer radius, that's not how it works. And if we did this then the pad is very hot at the outer radius and cool at the inner. That leads to excessive pad wear. Not to mention a loss in brake torque.

Now I can make it appear as if you are getting what you think you need; build a huge hat of say 10" and the pads will come right up to the edge of it. Same pads, same torque, same result.

But then we have less iron too. In a heavy car that's bad. More iron good.

You are correct on the turing issue, you'd have either a step at the turn point or pull the pass all the way from the hat and make the enitre rotor cut.

All this being said I suspect you won't believe me....I'm just the guy trying to sell you something. But cruise the brake builde sites and you'll see what we have here is common. Unless they use huge hats to remove the iron...

http://www.wilwood.com/products/kits/c514/index.asp

Here's a pic of the WW Corvette kit. It uses a middle ground size hat. See what happens to the rotors however when you do this? And those rotors are about $350 each, another reason I use the SAME hat and larger rotor. Mine are about $150ea.

And the size of the pad really comes in to play very little. I can use a 2x2 pad to stop your car or a 4.75 x 1.75 you see here. All depends on piston are and the rotor diameter and pad compound. i.e. larger, fat pads don't do a thing to stop a car better.

[gonzo50]

Originally posted by Todd TCE
Looks like we need an education on brakes here....

Larger rotors always move the pads out further from center line. It's call the effective radius in many spec books. NO pad is effective that is short and fat. Effective pad use is veritcal and long. This is where it get's it's leverage from.

All this being said I suspect you won't believe me....I'm just the guy trying to sell you something.
I'm just use to the stock brake appearance on most cars that don't show that much exposed rotor. Just my observation.

I have to believe what you say because you're the brake expert and I don't think you would make something up just to make a sale. Thanks. ;)

[Todd TCE]

Wasn't meant as a 'shot' at you, just that I've had similar conversations with others who insist a brake system MUST have larger pads to be more effective. It's about pressure and radius more than area. When you look a most performance pads for aftermarket calipers they are all very long and skinny unless they are intended for smaller rotors and tighter packaging.

How soon can I get you into some??

[Todd TCE]

Rear brackets were installed today on the test upright. Making a change of about .060" to the laser program and gave the go for 20 pieces.

This one poses some problems still. The rotor will be very close to the upright and require some hand grinding or file work to clear it all properly. This CAN be altered BUT it comes with a compromise to wheel clearance.

Should have the final brackets in hand and plated before the end of the month. Holiday schedules really mess up things.

Anyone wishing to take first delivery of this beast please let me know and how you want your rotors. Discount applies!

[Todd TCE]

Ok, so what's the deal on this 14" kit and the hold ups??

Here's the poop:

The fit of the radial BSL6 for proper fit on 14" rotors is complete. The package comes in at about what I expected and like the 13s will require minimal wheel spacer. However I am not pleased with the rotor package. This has been the delay in part.

The rotor for the 14 is from the same casting as the wider versions of 1.25 and more. Thus the rotor walls are not what I consider to be acceptable for heavy use or extended heat applications. They are no narrower than some other applicatons, but given the mass of the car I would NOT consider this a track worthy part. Furthermore, the fit requires some grinding of the steering knuckle and locates the badk side too close for my tastes.

The result of this will be back to square one; the 14" kit will be 1.25+" wide.
It wil NOT fit the stock wheel. And not likely with spacers either. But the trade off is that you will be offered a much better final product and be suitable for modest track use. Keeping in mind that none of these is built yet for all out race track applications.

For those who still want a larger package to fit under the stock wheel I'll defer to Logan as we proceed to fit and test the set up on his car. Why would he do this? The package as he receives it can and will be updated to the wider 1.25 rotor package at a later date when he comes into some larger or wider, brake friendly wheels. Will I consider doing it again for others? Hard to say just yet.

[darebren]

can you briefly describe the 13" solution that will fit in the stock wheels? does it get a new caliper?

[Todd TCE]

Why soytenly.

The 13.1 x 1.10 kit and it's proper narrow body six piston caliper fits the stock wheel with the supplied wheel spacer. Don't have the notes here, but I believe it's .065" thick.

For those who have alternate wheels the fit is much easier, and in fact can open up the fit to the full size BSL6 caliper.

Body width of the two parts is 2.35" vs. 1.91" or nearly 1/2" wider in full size. There in lies the rub with the stock wheels. (no pun intended)

See both the above pics (shown with optional drilling and zinc plating, as well as customer painting) and the website for more detials. Or you may email/call with specifics.

[Glenn]

Is it true that just going with the drilled rotors will give you about 20% more stopping power???

Glenn

[Todd TCE]

Not a chance. There is zero change in brake torque with drilled rotors, only a slight loss in weight, a bit of improved pad wiping and a lot of bling.

I offer drill (or drilled and slotted which doesn't make a lot of sense) purely due to market demands. You'll see no change in real performance with the holes, but you will go through pads fasterm, have dustier wheels and have shorter rotor life.

[Logan]

Yeah, but the bling factor is worth it. :D

[Todd TCE]

Yeah, but the bling factor is worth it. :D


I dunno.
The down side is the loss of rotor life and the faster wear rate on pads. But too each his own.

You ever hooked up with some (forgive me) Impala SS guys down your way on brakes? I've got a number of customers in the Dallas area. :P