Questions for Canadian MM owners

[stock93cv]

Might deal on a 2003 MM Black 300A this weekend. From browsing, I know some things to be watching out for in terms of defects, but I am wondering if the Canadian MMs suffer from the same defects (yes, I know that they are all built at St Thomas, but I don't know how they separate the US-bound from the domestic, and whether some things are done differently).

So, any help you can provide on these would be appreciated:

1. The paint!!! Same problems with thin/damaged/swirl-marked paint up here?

2. This MM's birth date is April 2003. No inside fuel door release, skinny spare, no clock, but it does have door pockets. Listed as a 300A, but are Canadian 300A differnt from those that went sounth?

3. What kind of mileage do you guys get? My commute is half freeway, half city. In my 93 Crown Vic, I get about 22-23 mpg (Canadian gallon, so about 17-18 per US gallon). Would the MM be a lot heavier on gas? The premium fuel cost alone probably means an increase in operating costs.

4. Subwoofer rattle?

5. Headlight fogging?

6. Right spoke in steering wheel problem? I'm not sure what's involved with this; I just saw it mentioned a few times, but with no details.

7. Inaccurate fuel guage?

8. Wire harness chafing by windshield wiper and transmission?

9. This isn't a problem question, but what kind of antitheft device does a 300A have? Would a guy still need a Club? What about wheel locks?

10. if I go for this one, I am going to offer 32,500 CAN (which is about 25,000 USD at today's rates). That reasonable? I don't know what incentives/cashbacks/holdbacks there are here.

That's it!! I might go test 'er out this afternoon (and then they'll never be able to get me out of the car, and I'll be stuck).

Thanks in advance for any comments.

[TripleTransAm]

1. For black cars, the paint is usually a little on the thin side. Look for dealer-installed paint swirls or other damage. ;)

2. Door pockets were never decontented. Seat-front pockets were. April 2003 cars will not have any of this. My car is a Feb build and does not have this either. I believe one of the first MM's I looked at (also Canadian) had the 'decontented' items still present, so that must have been a 2002 build.

3. For comparison sakes, I always quote my MPG in US gallons... easier to compare. For me to get a 17 mpg US reading on a tankful, I have to have quite a bit of 'fun' during that session. So I suspect that I get about 18-20 mpg in the same scenario you quoted. It's not the first time I've heard of the DOHC getting better mpg than a SOHC panther, when comparing with other local panther owners. Yes, the cost of premium fuel will offset this and perhaps more, as it's kind of hard to restrain oneself from enjoying the power. Do consider that with some self-restraint, you will benefit from 10 years of technological advancements, so I am confident your mpg will increase.

4. My sub doesn't rattle. It doesn't seem to play as loud as I'd want a subwoofer to play, so maybe one of these days I'll get in there and see if there's some left-over foam or obstruction. The 'decontented' cars are a bit harder to look into, requiring removal of rear seats. One of these days...

5. No problem with headlight fogging on my car. But then again, Canadian DRLs keep the headlights on enough to burn away any moisture that might get in there. By the way you will have to live with constant-on DRLs, at least until someone details a method to defeat them or at least return to previous style of operation (I'd hoped to do this by now, but the past months have been very busy - I'm still behind on posting the high-beam foglamp mod as it is).

6. Never heard of it. Not sure what it's about, maybe I misunderstood.

7. Fuel gage is right on, in my car.

8. Do check this out very carefully. I can't recall the details in the transmission region, but the rear corner of the passenger's head and the driver's side of the cowl are places to carefully inspect. Seems to be random as to which cars are afflicted with this.

9. Wheel locks, yes. Club... why not. From the factory, it has the Securilock system which matches the keys to your PCM and doesn't allow a startup without the proper key inserted. From what I've seen, the steering wheel locking mechanism was done away with.

10. You can always try 32500 Can on a left-over '03. Dealers are probably willing to negotiate more nowadays on those cars, but keep in mind that if an '03 has lasted this long, the dealer might have switched it to a demo by now. Try to get a brand new unused one if you can.

I paid $43500 Can for mine, and that was after several dealerships were scrambling to get me the best deal. I could have waited for a better deal but I needed the car quick (family reasons) and the folks at MM.net were probably getting tired of my constant indecision. ;) Recently, I spotted a demo for $39000 Can, unknown mileage, but this particular dealership was known for unrealistic pricing (too high and too stubborn to deal with).

Where are you at? You might want to fill out your 'location' information in your profile. And there is a Canadian-specific forum here that you can use for area-specific questions, if you'd like.

Good luck.

[stock93cv]

Thanks very much TTA. That's useful info. This MM has 50 km on it, so it hasn't been out much. Another dealer has a brand new 03 listed at 39,900, and a third dealer is making noises around the same numbers.
I never thought about the DRLs eliminating the moisture problem. I have always driven with my headlights on anyway, so having DRLs on all the time is a plus as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks again for the information. I'll see about adding my location.

[MapleLeafMerc]

Welcome to the site, stock!

Steve's thorough and accurate, as always.

Make sure you look at the paint in different lighting conditions, because some members have been quite unhappy with it.

I would also take your favourite, bass-heavy CD and play it in the car to be sure you like the sound from the back. I'll finally be replacing my speakers and I'll be asking them to try to stop the parcel shelf from vibrating so much.

Have you compared against 2004's? There are some other differences, like heated seats, dual knock sensors, and a different transmission, plus red and silver paint.

[jgc61sr2002]

stock93cv - Welcome aboard. :D :up:

[89VERT]

Welcome aboard! I'm one of the few MM owners in Vancouver.

I bought mine from Ocean Park Ford , who found me a used one with only 5000 kms on it that was leased in Kamloops in August and returned in October .I got it for $35,800 and it looks as new .
I've had my fuel sender replaced and the pcm re-flashed .No problem with lights fogging , even in our damp climate.My sub does rattle a little , I just haven't taken it in to have it fixed yet.

I live in New West and I noticed that Key West Ford had two in stock a couple of weeks ago.
Mine has the skinny spare, map pockets,stand alone clock , traction control , remote fuel door and traction control. And yes the paint is prone to swirl marks .I'm gettting the same gas mileage as my SHO , which was in the 20 mpg area.
Keep us posted on your progress!

[TripleTransAm]

50 km... yeah that's pretty much brand new, plus or minus one test drive or two. I had 17 km on my car. I was the first and last test drive. :up:

If you can get it for $32k Canadian, what the heck are you wasting your time reading this board for? Run out there and get that car, dammit. This is my first Panther, so I can't compare to anything, but I positively adore this car.

BTW you can get heated seats in a Canadian 300A, decontented. It's one of the few options (even the CD changer is standard). I didn't get them (bought mine from dealer stock) and judging by the time my MM takes to warm up in the driveway in the mornings, I kind of regret this. Oh well... less crap to slow me down on my way to a mid 14 quarter mile. ;) :up:

[stock93cv]

Hi all. Well, I'm up to 34,500 on the offer, but it looks as though they aren't going to go for that. this one does have the heated seats and the trunk organizer. The paint doesn't look too bad, but it's pretty well just been sitting on the lot (yes--Key West) so it hasn't had any opportunity for parking lot dints, etc. the other one there has 1200 km on it and th epaint is thin, and lots of chips on the passenger wheel wells, door, etc. That one would need a repaint before I'd take it.

Thanks for the welcomes and the comments. I should know later today if it's gonna be mine. That's as high as I'm going to go, and I suspect they'll come back at 38,000 expecting to settle at 36,000. There are 2 other dealers with exactly the same car, and they are close by, so I'll be talking to them if these guys won't go for the 34,500.

[TripleTransAm]

$34-$36k Canadian is an awesome price for this car. What you get for that price is amazing. I thought I stole my WS6 at $40k Canadian back in 1998 (ASC manager told me I could turn around and sell my car right then and there for $44k to $48k, the demand was so high in 1998). Hence why I had no trouble forking over $43500 back in March.

heh heh... I said "forking"...

[stock93cv]

Well, here's the latest. (All in Canadian dollars, so don't have a heart attack.)
I put in a firm offer of 34,500. They came back (from the dealership owner) with 38,900. Told them "No".
Looked in the paper today, and they have the car advertised at 39,500 with a 10,000 cashback,
Hmmm, did these guys think I had a big "S" on my forehead? Offer me 38,900, but now advertise at only 500 more with a 10,000 cashback? Duh!

Ya gotta wonder--does the owner think that every potential buyer is a moron? Now, they could have sold me the car for my 34,500 offer without a 10K cashback--whaddya think? I really wonder about the ethics of this outfit--they are the guys who (as far as I know, at least locally) first advertised things like "YOU CAN BUY THIS CAR FOR $40,000. Then, you look elsewhere in their ad and they see the magic words "with your trade worth at least $xxxxx, you can buy this car for only ....". Gee--how about "WITH YOUR TRADE WORTH AT LEAST ONLY 40,000, YOU CAN HAVE THIS CAR FOR FREE!!!"?

Give me a break (or, at least, a brake :) )

Sound now like a bunch of very unethical guys to me--especially when the salesman pulls the old "Well, just give me your credit card to put down a down payment to show that you're serious about wanting to buy the car"--what a crock!

Obviously, it looks as though I am SOL with respect to purchasing this vehicle from these guys. I hate to give it up, but I don't feel all that bad when I get a better take on the sort of outfit I am dealing with.

Any comments?

[TripleTransAm]

Sounds like one dealership I dealt with... I walked away (actually I drove away, but that's semantics...)

Trust me, there will be others ready to unload their car. Just look, they are there...

[Dr Caleb]

Find a dealer you like. A good relationship with your dealer is important. I've bought 4 vehicles from the dealer I got my MM from. 12 vehicles if you count friends and family I directed to them. It's only recently that I've started to question my relationship with them.

Check out this one:
http://autos.canada.com/national/buying/listing.aspx?id=85090
It's list price, but the ad hasn't been updated in a while.

[89VERT]

Sorry to hear that you're having trouble making a deal .
I take it that you're still dealing with Key West? I've seen their ads in the paper, and yeah , I'd have to agree that they are somewhat misleading about the true price of the car.
Are you dealing on the better unit of the two that they had ?
If I rememeber correctly one of them was a decontented car,as it didn't have the remote fuel door.
I also test drove an MM at Richport Ford in the Richmond Automall and the last time I was by , it was still there .
Perhaps they might be a little more accomodating.

I hope that it works out for you , as it would be nice to have another MM owner in Vancouver on this site!

[stock93cv]

89vert--yes, that's Key West. The better of the two MMs they have. The other looks like a demo with lots of paint chips, but still only 1200 km. I'm a bit surprised that they didn't come back with a better offer on that one, but they never mentioned it

I would prefer to deal with Richport (bought my 93 there, as well as my wife's Taurus), but they don't seem particularly anxious to move it off the lot either. The one they have needs the headlights replacing. I might yake another run at them now that it's December and end-of-year fast approacheth.

Totem Mercury also has one at 39,900.

34,500 is maybe just too low, but I'm not going any higher for a car that's last year's model and that has been sitting on the lot for 7 months.

[BRSMERC]

Hi:

I've always made my best deals early in the new year. Keep trying.

Brian

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by BRSMERC
I've always made my best deals early in the new year. Keep trying.


Right about now, I'm hoping there's no DEA agents out there reading this... :lol:

J/K Brian...