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View Full Version : Videotape Your Next Traffic Stop: A Good Idea?



ctrlraven
07-13-2010, 12:15 PM
http://autos.aol.com/article/cops-on-video/

Second video has some mature language so Not Safe For Work



With the proliferation of video cameras in phones and MP3 players, capturing an event on video has never been easier.

The tools are now pocket sized, creating a new wrinkle in how we're interacting with everything around us, including the police. While cops started arming themselves with vehicle-mounted cameras over a decade ago, only recently have we seen citizen-police interaction from this new perspective.

Is it legal? The official answer is yes, but that doesn't mean it will win you any points with a police officer. Is it smart? Well, we'll get to that.

No Expectation Of Privacy
As for why it's legal to video your own traffic stop, the law focuses on the fact that it's happening in public. Joseph Ejbeh, a practicing attorney working in Rochester Hills, Michigan, explained the notion of assumed privacy.

"When you're in a public place, there's no expectation of privacy," Ejbeh said. "It's public. It's out in the open. Anything happening in public is fair game to video. That includes a traffic stop."

AOL Autos interviewed lawyers who explained to us that laws regulating the recording of video and audio in public places differ by state. Generally there are only narrow restrictions that can include, for example, when a videographer might be disturbing the peace or interfering with police activities.

Taking Matters Into His Own Hands
When former Air Force flight officer Scott Colley drove through Lacrosse, Virginia on the night of January 15, 2010, he probably didn't realize how the events of that night would change his life and his view on law enforcement. Colley was pulled over for speeding on Highway 58, although he had his cruise control set at the posted speed limit of 50 MPH.

When the officer claimed he "paced" him and determined he was going much faster than the speed limit, Colley pulled out his videocamera to get a record of the conversation.

"Turn that off, sir," the officer said.

Despite the officer's initial protests, Colley kept filming, capturing 19 minutes in total. Eventually he posted his videos on YouTube and started a website called Highway 58 Speed Trap to expose the trap to other motorists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W4FOht4_EQ
9W4FOht4_EQ

"This stretch of Highway 58 is as notorious as the 'Bermuda Triangle,'" Colley wrote on his site. "But it's in our country, and now we have video evidence of the travesty! These Flip cameras are only 160 bucks. Never leave home without one."

In the end, his diligence paid off. The attorney set to argue the case on behalf of the city was made aware of Colley's efforts to dig into the "pacing" issue that he had videotaped. Only a short time after these tapes hit the internet, his case was thrown out. Oddly, Colley says that attorney admitted she hadn't even seen the video evidence, but nevertheless the case went into the circular file.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geSqDh2tSI8
geSqDh2tSI8

Police: On Video
So what do the police think of camera-wielding citizens? Most police departments do not have official policies on the issue. This makes an officer's response to a video camera up to the discretion of the individual officer.

"I've had several citizens video their traffic stops," said Los Angeles Police Department Officer Clarence Williams. "It hasn't been a problem for me except for when they shove the camera in my face. If they're respectful, everything goes fine.

"I recently stopped a young man who was making a video for a film class at school. He [videotaped] the entire process. I understood what he was doing and that it wasn't a dangerous or adversarial situation."

Others cite the need for officer safety. Cops don't like anything pointed directly at them, even if it's just a lens.

"I don't mind if a citizen has a video camera, but for me it becomes an issue of officer safety," said Detroit area Officer Frank Zielinski. "I don't like to have a citizen with something in their hands that they're pointing at me. Officers are trained to be very wary about what a person has in their hands. If we let our guard down for a second, we could miss seeing a weapon."

Zielinski explained that some cameras have been known to conceal guns.

"If somebody wants to video their traffic stop, that's totally within their rights," said Zielinkski. "The truth is that we're already on video. I've got a video camera running in the patrol car and I'm wired with a microphone. For a nominal fee, people can come to the station to request a video of their traffic stop, no problem. As for them holding their own camera, I'd rather they put it up on the dash so that their hands are empty."

While more municipalities are deploying in-car camera systems for their police departments, budget constraints have prevented major cities such as Los Angeles and Detroit from having cameras in all patrol cars.

Lawyers: On Video
"While it is legal, to hold a camera in anybody's face — including a police officer's — could be construed as really offensive," said attorney Matt Walton of Mt. Clemens, Michigan. "I'd recommend people think about what they're doing and consider the police officer's point of view before they whip out a video camera."

Walton brought up several points to ponder. While it is legal to record a traffic stop, the citizen must obey an officer's legitimate commands. If you are told to put the camera down, it's wise to follow that advice or you could be arrested for interfering with an officer in the line of duty.

Walton further notes that if you hope to use your video to beat your ticket, you must have recorded the ticketable offense to prove your point. Just recording the stop won't help. "What matters to the judge is whether you did what you're accused of, not what happened after," said Walton.

As a matter of act, videoing your traffic stop might make things worse for you. Walton opined, "Recording a police officer will not likely result in a 'Better slow it down and have a nice day' warning. The officer is likely to write you up for every possible infraction." The lawyer then referenced a recent incident in Michigan's Oakland Country where an officer gave a county executive a break during a traffic stop. The officer was subsequently disciplined for abusing his discretion when the details of the stop — and the breaks — were made public.

Another suburban Detroit officer agreed to talk to AOL on the condition of anonymity due to a pending lawsuit that tangentially involves this issue. This 33-year veteran confirmed Walton's assumption. He told AOL, "If somebody is going to come at me with an attitude and a camera, I'm going to do everything exactly by the book. They won't get one single break. I've had it happen a few times and because I'm being [videotaped], I professionally follow the letter of the law."

Remember: the letter of the law doesn't spell out giving breaks.

Making The Decision
"Over the years I've worked for government prosecutors and I've observed that police officers are overwhelmingly good people who follow the rules," said Walton. "But video can be used to document abuses that occur."

Should you or shouldn't you? That's a judgment call you're going to have to make. But if you do, know that your chances of receiving a speeding warning drop significantly.

If you do videotape the police publicly acting in an unlawful manner, it is not legal for those police officers to make you delete the files or confiscate your video device. If such a request or threat is made, you have a valid reason to make an official complaint against the officers involved.

Lights! Camera! Action!

fastblackmerc
07-13-2010, 01:05 PM
Busted!!!!!!!!!!!

LeoVampire
07-13-2010, 02:15 PM
He was lucky he got a cool officer to deal with this might have gone south pretty fast with some of the Leo's out there.

Da Dark Jedi
07-13-2010, 02:31 PM
He was lucky he got a cool officer to deal with this might have gone south pretty fast with some of the Leo's out there.


The person who taped the Rodney King beating was chased by L.A. Police and managed to get the tape out and exchanged it with some else. About 10 years back here in Chicago a teenage girl was gunned down for tring to call her parents on a traffic stop.

If your a MINORITY living in the USA you risk injury if you try filming them. Not every LEO is created EQUAL!

Spectragod
07-13-2010, 03:31 PM
The person who taped the Rodney King beating was chased by L.A. Police and managed to get the tape out and exchanged it with some else. About 10 years back here in Chicago a teenage girl was gunned down for tring to call her parents on a traffic stop.

If your a MINORITY living in the USA you risk injury if you try filming them. Not every LEO is created EQUAL!

I'm a minority, I'm caucasion, that's what you meant..... right?

Bluerauder
07-13-2010, 03:51 PM
The guy kept saying that the cruise control was set at 50 MPH. The reading on the speedometer sure looked like 52 MPH to me. That's the speed that the officer said he clocked the car at. What am I missing here ? .... other than the fact that 52 in a 50 MPH zone seems a little "chickens4!t" to me.

ChiTownMaraud3r
07-13-2010, 04:45 PM
You're missing that the officer cited him for 14 mph over the limit by pacing him. So 64mph in a 50.

Da Dark Jedi
07-13-2010, 04:58 PM
I'm a minority, I'm caucasion, that's what you meant..... right?

How many Caucasions have you seen or heard on news media had their rights abused by LEO's. I haven't. Only recently have Caucasions consider themselves as a minority. If that guy was other than the skin color he was, the percentages of him being in jail or harmed would have been increased. And he still kept talking.

Mr. Man
07-13-2010, 06:25 PM
What actually shocks me is that police depts don't routinely tell their officers "assume your being video taped". It may not be by the person you stopped but it's likely someone is taping you. Why don't cops get this?

dirtybird82
07-14-2010, 01:53 AM
:argue:

Doesn't pay to be Law Enforcement 98% of the time. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

DTUB
07-14-2010, 03:01 AM
If you think about it the cc can be reset at any time prior to stopping so that point is kind of invalid and anything over the posted limit is still breaking the law.

Spectragod
07-14-2010, 09:48 AM
How many Caucasions have you seen or heard on news media had their rights abused by LEO's. I haven't. Only recently have Caucasions consider themselves as a minority. If that guy was other than the skin color he was, the percentages of him being in jail or harmed would have been increased. And he still kept talking.

Uhh, WOW, where to start.....

I hear plenty on the news who have had thier "rights" violated, every time someone gets "caught", they are always having thier right violated, color makes no difference.

Caucasions are now considered a minority, any answer past that and you'll say I am violating someone's rights, or at least profiling them.

Skin color has nothing to do with going to jail, being stupid does, hence, most that are in jail are not very smart. Not everyone gets a ticket, you can talk yourself into that, as you can talk yourself into taking a ride down to the jail and being booked in. You may beat the charge, but you won't beat the ride.

You certainly aren't going to start with any of that ******/american stuff are you? Because if you are here in the U.S., and a citizen, YOU are an American.

If I can help you out with anything else, let me know.

Spectragod
07-14-2010, 09:49 AM
What actually shocks me is that police depts don't routinely tell their officers "assume your being video taped". It may not be by the person you stopped but it's likely someone is taping you. Why don't cops get this?

Most of us do get it. The subject usually gets brought up 3-4 times a month at roll call.

musclemerc
07-14-2010, 09:58 AM
I had no idea caucassion's were the minority? Where is this comming from? Definately not from the census report

Mr. Man
07-14-2010, 10:08 AM
Well I'm glad to see your dept at least reminds you guys a few times a month Spectragod. IMHO it needs to be said at the beginning of every shift.:)

Spectragod
07-14-2010, 10:31 AM
I had no idea caucassion's were the minority? Where is this comming from? Definately not from the census report

Link................

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/10/national/main6284387.shtml

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_will_the_caucasian_race_b ecome_a_minority_in_the_US


Does that help???

PonyUP
07-14-2010, 10:50 AM
That's cool, does that mean I will be able to take advantage of affirmative action?

Of course that also means I better stay out of Arizona, I would hate to be deported back to my original countires. Or maybe I get to choose

I'm part Scottish, English and German, hmmm where to go

Joe Walsh
07-14-2010, 11:06 AM
20 minutes of video that prove absolutely NOTHING.
He had his speed control set at 50?....How does that video prove it?

Was the LEO trying to drum up some additional funds for the County?
Maybe.

Did the guy eventually get the ticket/charges dropped?
Yes.

As far as LEOs stopping me:
I have been nailed for stuff that I did NOT do...but I've also gotten away with lots of things that I did do.

musclemerc
07-14-2010, 12:07 PM
You should read your own link. It say's newborn's are mostly hispanic. It also say's the caucassion's are paced to become the minority in 2050.

Guess what it's not 2050 and caucassion's currently make up 2/3 of the American population. That's no MINORITY!

Sheesh.....:shake:



Link................

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/10/national/main6284387.shtml

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_will_the_caucasian_race_b ecome_a_minority_in_the_US


Does that help???

Da Dark Jedi
07-14-2010, 12:41 PM
Uhh, WOW, where to start.....

I hear plenty on the news who have had thier "rights" violated, every time someone gets "caught", they are always having thier right violated, color makes no difference.

Caucasions are now considered a minority, any answer past that and you'll say I am violating someone's rights, or at least profiling them.

Skin color has nothing to do with going to jail, being stupid does, hence, most that are in jail are not very smart. Not everyone gets a ticket, you can talk yourself into that, as you can talk yourself into taking a ride down to the jail and being booked in. You may beat the charge, but you won't beat the ride.

You certainly aren't going to start with any of that ******/american stuff are you? Because if you are here in the U.S., and a citizen, YOU are an American.

If I can help you out with anything else, let me know.



Skin color DOES play a part in going to jail! The NFL in the late 80's made a book called Driving while Black mandatory reading for rookies coming into the league. In Detroit a coulpe of months ago A little girl (Afircan American) was shot while she slept on the couch by LEO's in plain sight. They were at the wrong apartment. In the 70's here in Chicago my uncles three of them who are now retired police would not allow any of us to be seen in a certain district because their counter parts would arrest the youths here for anything. Last year two Mexican Americans were killed by a off duty cop (Caucasian) who was drunk. The court here found the cop not guilty, even tho the officer was DWI. His family can't under stand how the law differs for them.

Your comment "You certainly aren't going to start with any of that ******/american stuff are you?". This further illustrate the point how insensitive people can be.

Spectragod
07-14-2010, 02:50 PM
Your comment "You certainly aren't going to start with any of that ******/american stuff are you?". This further illustrate the point how insensitive people can be.


My wife's African-American, how insensitive does that make me now?

She hates it, becasue all the people in the United States want to be associated with some other country, and hyphenate their own origin. Her words, not mine. I'll clue you in on something else, she came to this country from Africa so that she could be an American, how odd is that? She has no claim of being African what so ever, she says she is an American..... and is proud of that.

The bottom line...... the news media thrives on the black/white issues and keeps crap stirred up, people read it an believe what they see on the news. I'll say this.... if you didn't actually see these incidents in person, then I wouldn't defend them. Video can be edited to make you see the message they are trying to get you to see.

Da Dark Jedi
07-14-2010, 04:21 PM
My wife's African-American, how insensitive does that make me now?

She hates it, becasue all the people in the United States want to be associated with some other country, and hyphenate their own origin. Her words, not mine. I'll clue you in on something else, she came to this country from Africa so that she could be an American, how odd is that? She has no claim of being African what so ever, she says she is an American..... and is proud of that.

The bottom line...... the news media thrives on the black/white issues and keeps crap stirred up, people read it an believe what they see on the news. I'll say this.... if you didn't actually see these incidents in person, then I wouldn't defend them. Video can be edited to make you see the message they are trying to get you to see.



Okay... I too have meet white Africans that have come to the U.S.A. and called themselves African Americans. Their GREAT GREAT GRANDPARENTS are White Africans. It's also good that your wife can also HATE alot of peoples belief. African American, Mexican American and so on, that's alot of hate. But thats what makes the U.S.A. so great is the respect of the individual's rights & belief. OH, the Rodney King beating was edited, he was resisting arrest or it didn't take place the the people seen it.

dirtybird82
07-15-2010, 01:18 AM
I think it's time for someone to close this thread.

ctrlraven
07-15-2010, 06:10 AM
I think it's pretty ignorant to bring the race card in this thread to start with.

Point of the thread was the principle about video recording a traffic stop, that's it.

Mods please close this thread.

Spectragod
07-15-2010, 08:21 AM
I think it's pretty ignorant to bring the race card in this thread to start with.

Point of the thread was the principle about video recording a traffic stop, that's it.

Mods please close this thread.

I concur, it has nothing to do with the subject at hand.