Busted

[MrBluGruv]

I'm not happy.


Last night I was travelling along our city's inner-loop highway and I was tagged for speeding.


Here's the kicker: when I was pulled over, he wrote me three speeding tickets, one for 91 at the 2700 block, one for 95 at the 2300 block, and one for 98 at the 1900 block.

This link shows the distance between the furthest points:

http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=m&lat=29.514065&lon=-98.42275&zoom=14&q1=2700%20NE%20loop%20410%2C%2 0san%20antonio%2C%20tx&q2=1900%20NE%20loop%20410%2C%2 0san%20antonio%2C%20tx


I caught up to him at right about that curve on the highway at Harry Wurzbach rd., where he pulled me over.

My question is this: how is this possible to write tickets in this fashion?

And secondly, is that even appropriate to write tickets like that?


I firmly believe I wasn't moving that fast, but details about that will be held out until I either have my court case or plead out.

I'd appreciate any insight from others, especially resident LEO.

[babbage]

I think you just lost your license. In NY if you have (3) in one year you are done.

[justbob]

I can't see how that would possibly stand up in court unless you were evading. Either way, that will be a very stiff fine for just one AND your insurance will not like that one bit. Good luck, get a laywer.

[MrBluGruv]

I think you just lost your license. In NY if you have (3) in one year you are done.

And because of that I think the officer was trying to screw me in the long run.

In Texas, unless it's changed, we have a 6-point system. Speeding is 2-points per conviction. Unless I can get this reduced, you may be right unfortunately.


I'm going to try to talk to the prosecutor before my court date. I have a flawless driving record thus far and I WAS NOT racing. Time will tell now.

[MrBluGruv]

I can't see how that would possibly stand up in court unless you were evading. Either way, that will be a very stiff fine for just one AND your insurance will not like that one bit. Good luck, get a laywer.

Each ticket is over $500 because he tacked on "driving too fast for conditions" to each one. I can live with one, that's doable. But 3, both in fines and license status, man that'd kill me.

[RacerX]

Wow! Good luck! :( When I was there, I was speeding in the rental and people were still blowing by me!

[ImpalaSlayer]

thats ridiculous dude

[MrBluGruv]

Wow! Good luck! :( When I was there, I was speeding in the rental and people were still blowing by me!


That's what always kinda adds insult to injury,

I got back onto the freeway after the stop, set my cruise contrl to 60 (wasn't gonna make that mistake again), and literally EVERY car on the road passed by me.


It's no defense, I know, but it still feels silly that that happens.

[4play]

he was just jelous cuz your car was better then his.

[TooManyFords]

I see absolutely NO reason to be doing 90+ under ANY condition.

Maybe you need to lose your license to learn how to drive.

[MrBluGruv]

I see absolutely NO reason to be doing 90+ under ANY condition.

Maybe you need to lose your license to learn how to drive.

Yeh, because I'm just a punk ass kid that street races all the time and has a blatant disregard for the public at large.


Doesn't matter that I've not even been stopped by an officer in over a year and a half, and that that "violation" was he thought I was using my foglights as headlights.

Doesn't matter that I've seen friends get locked up and friends die doing that ****.

Doesn't matter that I'm busting my ass to get through school and stay working hard at my job.

Doesn't matter I have a beautiful girlfriend that I avoid trouble for because I don't want to lose her.


No, none of that ****ing matters, this incident is totally indicative of my consistent driving habits and clearly I'm a menace to society.


Even though going 10 under the limit on that highway is impeding traffic by about 5 mph.

Even though anyone that's owned a Marauder and driven it any serious amount of time can tell you if you aren't 100% attentive at highway speed, it's easy for it to wander away and gain speed without you realizing it.


Yes, this one violation totally warrants three separate tickets putting 6-points on my license, taking $1600 away from me, and jeopardizing my education and job, cause I'm a bastard and need to learn how to drive.





-------------------------------------------------------------------------



Does anyone have any relatively up-to-date, relatively accurate information on the range of a rear-mounted radar gun on an interceptor that is in-motion?

[Ktorres1]

He screwed you but hey some people huh...

[Got_1]

WOW, thats a raw deal right there. Hope you come out on top.

[Leadfoot281]

See if they'll let you combine them all and go with one ticket for 284 mph.

Seriously though, 3 tickets for one stop?! All for speeding? Following their logic, just slowing down from 98 to 75 should have gotten you 23 seperate tickets.

[MrBluGruv]

See if they'll let you combine them all and go with one ticket for 284 mph.

Seriously though, 3 tickets for one stop?! All for speeding? Following their logic, just slowing down from 98 to 75 should have gotten you 23 seperate tickets.


One of them is not possible at all, I distinctly remember being stuck behind an individual doing 55-60 in the 60 zone between where the first and second ticket is cited, and that pack of traffic was together for the entire distance between the first ticket and when I entered that freeway.

What would be fantastic is if I could get it reduced to one ticket no more than 85mph, this way I could plead no contest and do defensive driving and call it a day. I don't believe I was doing more than 85 anyways. But like I said before, I can even handle the one ticket where the officer could legitimately testify that he actually witnessed me doing said speed, even though I don't believe it, because at least then it wouldn't completely ruin my livelihood. Like I said before, I have a spotless record, and it ain't cause I'm "lucky" :depress:

[CBT]

See if they'll let you combine them all and go with one ticket for 284 mph.

Seriously though, 3 tickets for one stop?! All for speeding? Following their logic, just slowing down from 98 to 75 should have gotten you 23 seperate tickets.

Ouch!
Well how fast were you going? You never said you weren't speeding....

[yjmud]

I see absolutely NO reason to be doing 90+ under ANY condition.

Maybe you need to lose your license to learn how to drive.

so you have never gone that fast in IA the roads are straight and smooth everyone in Ia goes about that fast on the interstate

[Bigdogjim]

Never have I heard of any officer writting 3 tickets for the same violation at the same stop?

New Jersey is listed as the #1 State for tickets.:)

I would talk to a laywer if I were you.

Let us know how it turns out for you, best of luck with it.

[MrBluGruv]

Ouch!
Well how fast were you going? You never said you weren't speeding....

I will contend that I wasn't going any faster than 85.

As I mentioned prior though, keeping up with traffic is speeding by default on that highway, and I saw plenty proof of that after I fixed my speed to 60 with cruise control after my traffic stop. The only times that traffic moves faster than the time I was pulled over on that road is when it's rush hour, in which case 75-80 is far from unheard of in that 60mph zone.

[TooManyFords]

Cliff notes:


... and need to learn how to drive.

[RacerX]

Being in San Antonio recnetly, I can vouch for an average speed of 85. Which is really nerve racking with the loop roads going in and out of the circumferential highway. Usually the flow of traffic sets the rules. In which case, if you stand out from the pack, they tend to make an example of you.

[a_d_a_m]

Get one of two things:

1. A good lawyer.
2. Vaseline


Good luck.

[chicago_cop]

I'm not happy.


Last night I was travelling along our city's inner-loop highway and I was tagged for speeding.


Here's the kicker: when I was pulled over, he wrote me three speeding tickets, one for 91 at the 2700 block, one for 95 at the 2300 block, and one for 98 at the 1900 block.

This link shows the distance between the furthest points:

http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=m&lat=29.514065&lon=-98.42275&zoom=14&q1=2700%20NE%20loop%20410%2C%2 0san%20antonio%2C%20tx&q2=1900%20NE%20loop%20410%2C%2 0san%20antonio%2C%20tx


I caught up to him at right about that curve on the highway at Harry Wurzbach rd., where he pulled me over.

My question is this: how is this possible to write tickets in this fashion?

And secondly, is that even appropriate to write tickets like that?


I firmly believe I wasn't moving that fast, but details about that will be held out until I either have my court case or plead out.

I'd appreciate any insight from others, especially resident LEO.

Get a Lawyer. You have to. It's like giving a separate ticket for every 100 ft or every block. I don't believe a judge would be on his side unless there was mitigation; like a police chase. Why didn't he stop you on the one violation instead of letting you speed on ? Was it raining ? Everyone speeds in Dallas. If you were following the flow of traffic you would be. Unless you were passing everything in site. Say your prayers.

[RacerX]

Get one of two things:

1. A good lawyer.
2. Vaseline


Good luck.


That's what she said! :D

[MrBluGruv]

Cliff notes:


Poor argument from you followed by a weak rebuttle after I made my point.

We're done here.





I've checked a few sources, and quite a few say that while technically a radar can read up to 2.5 miles (or more) in some cases, it isn't effective or practical beyond 700ft to 1/2 mile, which puts the first two tickets out of the realm of possibility not only for him actually observing an offense, but also from the radar being verifiable. This is a heavy assumption, but at least it's a place for me to start. At the rate of speed I was alleged to be going, and given that we arrived at the last ticket location at the same time, it would take him approximately 1 minute and 19 seconds to go from the first ticket to the third at 60 miles an hour. If I was at an average speed of 95 (looking at the three speeds cited) and in that same period of time, that would put me roughly 7/10 of a mile behind him and almost onto a different freeway altogether at the moment he was at the first ticket location. Even if radar is accurate at long distance (>1/4-1/2 miles), I don't see how a moving cruiser could argue line-of-sight on these until the moment I encountered him or roughly 500-700 yards before I did.

I think he chose me to be the example.

[MM2004]

A few people have given good advice...

Get a good Lawyer that practices in that district.

Keep us posted and good luck!

Mike.

[Motorhead350]

Man... that's a bummer. Good luck. BTW we all speed, we're all guilty.

[TooManyFords]

I just don't understand why everyone is wishing this guy "good luck" when he was running nearly 100 mph! Shame on him and shame on the rest of you who condone it!

[Motorhead350]

I just don't understand why everyone is wishing this guy "good luck" when he was running nearly 100 mph! Shame on him and shame on the rest of you who condone it!

You're guilty too at one time or another. We all are. You have the time slips to prove it. :P 128mph right? :D

[RacerX]

1. He's a nice guy that got caught doing a stupid thing.
2. I don't believe he should get more than one ticket.
That's why the "Good luck" from myself. Anyone that speeds on city roads needs to be reminded by the law that there's a time and a place: The track. John's a good guy too and I'm sure is a stickler for safety even at the track, with good reason. Be safe!

[Spectragod]

1)Get a lawyer
2)Sell your car
3) I have dibs on the floor mats



But really, consult a local attorney, preferably one that plays golf with the Prosecuter...... really, I am not kidding on that one.

[fastblackmerc]

#1 - Get a lawyer

#2 - Ask you state DOT for the average speed to the stretch of road you were traveling on

#3 - As someone else said ..... Vaseline or KY jelly.

#4 - Stop speeding!!! Just because "everyone else was doing it" doesn't mean you have to.

[babbage]

You also need an alcoa MMC driveshaft with those 4.10 gears! :)

You should really get yourself a lawyer.

[White Knuckles]

You may be a fine young man......I don't know, but you made a BAD choice. I have read your description of the events and it sounds like you were in fairly heavy traffic. Bad things happen at that speed in traffic.
Here in GA, they have instituted the Super Speeder Law which adds a special fine for exceeding 85 on a 70mph zoned interstate or exceeding 75 on a two-laned highway. The additional fines imposed are supposed to help fund GA trauma centers.
You made the choice----you got caught---- you should be held responsible. The officer citing you three times, suggests he felt you were a menace to public safety in the extreme. A good lawyer($$$$$) will probably help reduce your charges and maybe salvage your driving privileges. Your insurance company will also get their pound of flesh.
There has been recent tragedy in the Marauder community-----let's learn from this as well. If you feel the need for speed-------TAKE IT TO THE TRACK!!

[PonyUP]

I just don't understand why everyone is wishing this guy "good luck" when he was running nearly 100 mph! Shame on him and shame on the rest of you who condone it!

I don't think anyone is condoning it. Everyone is guilty of doing something stupid at one time or another. What people are coming down on is getting 3 tickets in a 3 block radius, that is not warranted, and is just a foolish attempt to

a) rack up money for the city
and
b) make an example out of someone.

However I will say this, if it is indeed true that you were doing over 90 in a metropolitan area you could be sited for speeding as well as reckless endangerment and reckless operation of a motor vehicle. In that instance three separate tickets could be written for multiple violations and yes your license could be suspended.
The advice is to speak to a lawyer and follow their instructions. And plead for the mercy of the court. If you ahve a clean record you'll probably get off with an expensive ticket and a couple points on your license.

If Lindsay Lohan can keep thumbing her nose at the law and receive multiple violations before there is any penalty, it wouldn't seem right to go overboard on your violation.

that is why everyone is saying good luck in my opinion and I will join that charge, good luck

[DarthMarauder]

You need a lawyer cause no matter how much research you do its not gonna help you if the officer shows up. I got a bogus ticket when I was 17. I believe the officer clocked the car going the opposite direction as me and I was in a lime green car so he went after me and I got a 14 over ticket when I know for a fact I was going the speed limit. I did all kinds of research made a map and layout on posterboard and did a whole presentation on how there was no way I was speeding and after all the the judge turned and looked at the officer and asked how many years experience he had. He said 7 years the judge looked at me and said I had to pay the ticket.
SO GET A LAWYER. Wish I had. But that was a long time ago and its off my record now.

[CBT]

I just don't understand why everyone is wishing this guy "good luck" when he was running nearly 100 mph! Shame on him and shame on the rest of you who condone it!

Shame on the rest of us who condone it? If what he says is true, and he was going with the flow of traffic, i.e. not passing anyone and staying with 'the pack', who are we to say he was not driving in a safe manner? i'm all for speed at any speed, but I also believe caught is caught. The old saying "you pay to play" comes to mind. If he wasn't driving reckless, then yeah, good luck to him. He asked for advice, we gave it, don't blast the rest of us for speaking our minds just because you don't like it.

[Pat]

Folks are recommending a lawyer, that may also be expensive, find out his/her fee first. Maybe a pretty lady lawyer may be the better way to go. Just saying.

Like the rest of us I've never heard of more than one ticket per violation per stop. That is, one for speeding, one for past due inspection sticker, one for insurance or drivers license and so on.

Maybe the traffic laws in San Antonio have changed. Ask another cop or go on line to the city's website.

Was the citing officer a San Antonio policeman or one from the numerous townships that smother the north side? Different laws and courts.

From my experience a reasonable plea and or explanation can get two of the three tickets dismissed. The "judge" really does take into account many variables the citing officer doesn't.

Presentation is important. Haircut, Sunday clothes, no tattoos showing, Clean shaved or minimum facial hair, leather shoes or boots. Be respectful, don't raise your voice or offer irrelevant excuses "like everybody else is doing it".

Maybe offer community service in lieu of the fines for two of the three citations.

Regards,

[Bigdogjim]

I know you do not live in New Jersey however here is what they will do..


39:4–98 Exceeding maximum speed 1-14 mph over limit
2
Exceeding maximum speed 15-29 mph over limit
4
Exceeding maximum speed 30 mph or more over limit
5

So 15 points right off the bat!

Go the lawyer route.

Pat above gave some great pointers!

[SID210SA]

I dont believe anyone who has a vehicle like ours has never sped in a manner such as this....If you have ever broken a driving law, ever in your life, you have no room to bash Chris.....we have all learned from our mistakes and we are all human, so we all make mistakes....NO ONE IS PERFECT!!! I cannot say that any one here has never broken any driving laws by first hand knowledge....but even the best of drivers have gone at least 1 MPH over the speed limit or not wearing a seatbelt or any other driving violation....and if you say that 1 MPH is not 20 or 30 or 50MPH over it is still breaking the law. He is looking for help, not critisism!

With that being said....were you busted by SAPD or a Constable....was it a traffic officer or a patrol officer....the only reason why I ask is that you may be able to beat the ticket or tickets if the officer has not calibrated his unit in a timely manor....and ususally the patrol officers are not that diligent in this matter.....the constables are as well as the traffic officers, but beware that if you go this route they can throw the book at you. IF you did the deed then own up to it or plead it down..also I was not aware of us having a point system here.....but then again I cant remember the last time I got a speeding ticket (knock on wood), so I am no help there......IF it was SAPD let me know and I can ask a buddy of mine about the 3 tickets you got and get his opinion...he is a veteran of SAPD and can offer some helpful advice.

Mike

[MrBluGruv]

Well, all three tickets say traffic was light. They all say roads were dry and clear and that visibility was good, but he has a part-B written on the tickets that it was unsafe operating conditions. Aside from the one line of cars across all the lanes that was going lower than the speed limit, once those cleared traffic wasn't really bad at all. I figure that's the point I started to let it get away from me. This is a San Antonio traffic cop by the way.

My claim isn't to whether or not it's physically possible for me to do those speeds, it's that it isn't possible for him to have witnessed at least two infractions. One of those I know didn't happen because as I said, I didn't clear the traffic bunch until after where the first ticket was alleged to happen. If I was at the rate of speed he says I was going, he wouldn't have even seen me until after the second citation location more likely than not (still working out logistics), so that's why I'm saying at least two of those tickets are unfounded.

I won't dispute the 3rd one happened, I obviously was going fast because I caught up to and nearly passed the officer while he was moving, but I argue the near 100mph speed as I really don't think I was going that fast.

Some people seem to be under the impression I'm upset cause I got caught. That's not the case, I got lax and got called on it. But I think these tickets are grossly over the top. I think the officer is trying to get me off the street and so he's engineered the tickets to do this to me. If it's really that easy to cite people for other violations, then why didn't he do that to me? Let that speak that I am otherwise a concerned and attentive car-owner and driver. This ticketing scheme is absurd.

I also never have and never will justify what I've done by saying other drivers speed also, I'm merely stating that even to keep up with traffic, one must speed on that highway. Wrong, yes, but also the truth.

My main goal is to talk to the prosecutor and see about what will stand, I've heard this woman (if it's the same person) can be very reasonable so I've got my fingers crossed. I have some ties to the police department as well so I think I can find out some truthful information from good sources as to what my next course of action should be. Bad part for me is court date is in about 2 weeks, so not a lot of time to really get settled with all the other things I also have to take care of.

[YankeeMarauder]

3 tickets is just crap, plain and simple. My wife was singled out in 1998 when 2 other cars were going faster when she was pulled over in her SHO. She asked the cop “what about the other two vehicles that were going faster than I was?” The cops response? “you were easier to pull over.” True story. Ticket was thrown out but it still took 9 months.
And as for the police in Texas, I am sure there are plenty of great ones, but there are plenty of less than ethical ones too. My wife was stalked by one so I know it first hand. I also had one tell me I was going to let him do something I knew I didn’t have to that would invade my home privacy. I politely told him that was not going to happen, reported him to his supervisor and was informed that he would not be returning to my home unless it was a 911 call and no one else was available. Having said that, yes, if you were doing 100 mph, justice should be served, but you only did 100 mph 1 time , not 3. Its not officer friendlys place to rewrite or manipulate the law to his suits to make you an example. Fair is fair.
Finally, yup they speed around Dallas and Fort Worth Texas at 85, 95 and even 100 mph like its no ones business. And you’ll find my fat a** in the granny lane with cruise set at 60 mph in my Marauder. Its my first Marauder, but I have had over 30 Fox Body 5.0s, several SN95s and a few S197s so I know how and when to keep my nose clean.
So in closing, if you were doing 85, then fair is fair. But 85 3 times over is just crap. FYI: No tickets since 1989, the two citation I have received since were both thrown out when the police did not show up (Maryland 2004 and Texas 2007)

GOOD LUCK BRO!!

[4play]

if i get a ticket i delay if for as long as possible last one i delayed it for a year and a half, by then most of the points fell off lol

[duhtroll]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Pause for small tangent...

The roads in IA may be straight, but I have yet to find one that is smooth. The winters here absolutely destroy all of our roads.

My students will often ask how fast my car is. I reply "I'll never know."

There isn't a road around here that I would trust ANY car going 90 or more. Too damn many potholes and naturally occurring "speed bumps."

And nearly everyone goes that fast on the interstate? Where? I've driven many thousands of miles in this state, unfortunately, and people don't drive very fast here at all. The fastest cars? People from Nebraska and Illinois, in that order, passing through.

This is not the Chicago Loop where under 80 gets you on the bad side of everyone else because you are going too slow.

I agree it should be one ticket and not three, but I have a question. Logically, you were doing something illegal and you knew it. Let's say the cop was just picking on you and has a complete disregard for procedure. In other words, he was doing something illegal too and he knew it (I am not saying he was, just for the sake of discussion). Do you really have a right to complain? If you hadn't been speeding, would you have received the tickets?






so you have never gone that fast in IA the roads are straight and smooth everyone in Ia goes about that fast on the interstate

[Vortex]

If you were driving almost 100 mph on Loop 410 you need to lose your license for a while.

[Blk Mamba]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

The roads in IA may be straight, but I have yet to find one that is smooth. The winters here absolutely destroy all of our roads.

My students will often ask how fast my car is. I reply "I'll never know."

There isn't a road around here that I would trust ANY car going over 90. Too damn many potholes and naturally occurring "speed bumps."


Years ago I drove for Pony Express, courier service, (a division of the Brinks armored car company), out of Des Monies, delivering bank cans to, and from the fed. The roads weren't that bad then, but we were encouraged to "make time" on our route, and that the po po on our routes knew we were in the area.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Pause for small tangent...

The roads in IA may be straight, but I have yet to find one that is smooth. The winters here absolutely destroy all of our roads.

My students will often ask how fast my car is. I reply "I'll never know."

There isn't a road around here that I would trust ANY car going 90 or more. Too damn many potholes and naturally occurring "speed bumps."

And nearly everyone goes that fast on the interstate? Where? I've driven many thousands of miles in this state, unfortunately, and people don't drive very fast here at all. The fastest cars? People from Nebraska and Illinois, in that order, passing through.

This is not the Chicago Loop where under 80 gets you on the bad side of everyone else because you are going too slow.


Haha I can vouch for this! :lol:

[hamcheese]

My My Pops is a chief of police, i will run this by him and let you know what he says. By the way, he lives in California. Lets see what he says. Ill PM you if he gives any good info. :)

[CBT]

Feeding the Machine: Sandbagging on Speed Limits - Feature

Hoping to hang on to ticket revenue, municipalities flout the law.

BY GEORGE HUNTER, ILLUSTRATION BY SEAN MCCABE
July 2010

Pages: 1

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/from-the-august-issue-of-car-and-driver-full-top-blue-arrow5/3708937-1-eng-US/from-the-august-issue-of-car-and-driver-full-top-blue-arrow.jpg (http://www.caranddriver.com/information/august_2010-table_of_contents)



http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/top-image-with-upfront-for-fullspan-embed/3707598-1-eng-US/top-image-with-upfront-for-fullspan-embed.jpg



Jim Walker admits he was driving faster than the posted 30-mph limit when the cop pulled him over, but he was able to beat the ticket by demonstrating in court that the speed limit, not his driving, was the culprit.
“The judge said he wasn’t happy about it, but he had to throw the ticket out because we proved the speed limit wasn’t legal,” says Walker, 65, of Lexington, Michigan.
Since Congress repealed a national speed-limit law in 1995, states have been increasing limits. So, while state legislatures are voting to up speed limits, local municipalities are reluctant to follow, experts say, because they don’t want to lose the revenue that speeding tickets provide.
In Michigan, most towns have not complied with a four-year-old state law ordering them to reset speed limits according to specific formulas, says one of the state’s top traffic cops. Lt. Gary Megge, head of the Michigan State Police Traffic Services Section, says one of the reasons for this inaction is the revenue raised by those tickets (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q1/car_and_driver_s_juiciest_traf fic_tickets_-feature).
“I think money is part of it (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q2/hard_times_bigger_fines_govern ments_raising_fines_to_balance _their_budgets-feature), and I find it reprehensible that communities aren’t following the law,” Megge says. “In many cases, the problem is the speed limit, not the motorist. Communities have to obey the law, too.”
The state law, Public Act 85 of 2006 (http://www.caranddriver.com/content/download/223722/3712226/version/2/file/2006-PA-85-Introduced.pdf), compels communities to set limits based on the speed at which 85 percent of drivers are traveling at the time a study is conducted. Limits are also based on the number of driveways or cross streets that intersect a given stretch of road.
If either of those two methods is not used, a 55-mph limit applies by default, except in some cases such as subdivisions or business districts. But because most communities in Michigan have not complied, speed limits throughout the state remain “artificially low,” according to Megge.
“If you’re driving down a road, and it just feels like the speed limit is way too low, it probably is,” Megge says.
The fault, Megge explains, lies with elected officials, not cops. “People don’t become police officers because they want to give out tickets to people who are driving safely,” he adds.
There are glimmers of revolt. After Walker won his case in 2008, he helped another driver get a citation thrown out using the same argument.
“The city appealed, but the judge dismissed the appeal,” Walker says. “He came out and told me he didn’t want to dismiss it, but he had no choice—it was the law.”
Steve Purdy, director of the National Motorists Association’s Michigan chapter, says prosecutors usually  will dismiss tickets challenged under PA 85. “They don’t want to establish a precedent, so they’ll throw out the ticket,” he explains.
And county road commissions in the state of Michigan, which do not collect ­revenue from speeding tickets, have been more inclined than municipalities to comply with PA 85 on the roadways under their ­jurisdictions, according to Megge.
Chris Florka, a traffic design (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q3/states_that_use_red-light_and_speed_cameras_to_mon itor_your_driving-feature) technician for the Macomb County Road Commission, which recently increased some speed limits after conducting speed studies in accord­ance with the state law, says the cost of complying with PA 85 is minimal.
“It’s just a matter of  having your employees go out and conduct the study,” says Florka, who opted to set limits by having a road commission employee gauge traffic speeds with a radar gun.
Michael Kitchen, the police chief of Ferndale, a Detroit suburb, admits the need for revenue (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/03q2/town_without_pity-feature) was the reason behind his recent decision to step up traffic enforcement. “We have to write more tickets in order to avoid layoffs,” Kitchen says. “I don’t like how this looks to the public at all, but the bottom line is: If you obey the speed limit, we won’t give you a ticket.”
However, Kitchen also admits that the 35-mph speed limit on the most heavily driven roadway in Ferndale is likely too low. “That speed limit would probably be 45 mph if they ever did a speed study,” he says.
State police cannot force communities to comply with the public act, according to Megge.
“If a speed limit hasn’t been set properly and someone exceeds it, the driver is in violation of the number on the sign,” Megge says. “But if they’re driving at a speed that’s realistic, do they deserve a $200 fine? Personally, I say they do not. I know if I got a ticket on a road where the speed limit wasn’t set properly, I’d fight it.”

[CBT]

This comment was posted under the article:

FILE A MOTION OF DISCOVERY!
They (ADA office) will never respond to the motion and you'll win on court procedure alone, without the fuss of bothering with the violation itself.
The "traffic attorneys" are being less than, shall we say, practical, by not informing you of their daily bread on this defense. Probably because you don't need a defense when you use the courts own procedures against itself.
Talk to a real attorney about this, and/or pay one to guide you through it the first time, and you won't need them again.
That said, I'm sure there are some jurisdictions that are violating even your most basic Constitutional rights as it applies to discovery. If so, there are even more fun routes to take (p.i.)
Happy Flying!
Pz

[CBT]

Another one:

I lost on an appeal, Asst. PA said he couldn't do anything because I didn't file for a formal trial the first go around!
File for formal trial, many, many magistrates and Prosecutor's offices will reduced the charge to a non-moving violation just to get you on your way and they get your money! Zero points on your license is probably the best case for you.
The only other thing you can do is go for a 'informal hearing' before a magistrate and hope like heck the cop is on vacation or sick. In our state, the cops love coming in on days off to fight their tickets b/c they earn OT!!! The more bogus tickets they write, the more upset people, (and money), the more OT they get! All at the cost of the tax paying public who can ill afford this poo in these trying times!

[duhtroll]

Feeding the Machine: Sandbagging on Speed Limits - Feature



Nice info, but I doubt you're going to convince anyone that the speed limit needs to be 80-85 on any road just because people drive that fast there.

[Bluerauder]

Here's the kicker: when I was pulled over, he wrote me three speeding tickets, one for 91 at the 2700 block, one for 95 at the 2300 block, and one for 98 at the 1900 block.

I suspect that the 3 incidents will be rolled into one. The point of the three is to show that you were in excess of 90 MPH for nearly one-mile. You got on it and STAYED ON IT for more than just a few seconds. 90+ MPH on a public highway is asking for trouble or even worse. The Marauderboi episode apparently hasn't sunk in yet.


Doesn't matter that I've not even been stopped by an officer in over a year and a half ....

Doesn't matter that I've seen friends get locked up and friends die doing that ****.

Doesn't matter that I'm busting my ass to get through school and stay working hard at my job.

Doesn't matter I have a beautiful girlfriend that I avoid trouble for because I don't want to lose her.

No, none of that ****ing matters ...

You're right !!! None of that Matters at all. Your speed and the posted speed are ALL THAT MATTERS. The last time you were stopped, school, friends, and girlfriend have NO BEARING on this incident.

You should have a lawyer with you (no matter the cost) when you go before the judge on this one.


You're guilty too at one time or another. We all are. You have the time slips to prove it. :P 128mph right? :D

No comparison .... one is on a controlled track and the other is on a public highway. If you can't see the difference, you need some additional training.


I dont believe anyone who has a vehicle like ours has never sped in a manner such as this....If you have ever broken a driving law, ever in your life, you have no room to bash Chris.....we have all learned from our mistakes and we are all human, so we all make mistakes....NO ONE IS PERFECT!!!

What a Crock of :bs: ^^^^^^^^^^^

Your ^^^^^ point is ???? This was a mistake ... a BIG MISTAKE and the court will decide how to handle it. Some of the comments here will help prepare him for the outcome which probably won't be light.

[Dragcity]

Was there another officer driving in traffic, or shooting radar where you passed? Those are the questions I would ask.

Is there more than one officer's name on any of the tickets?

For sure, find a local lawyer who works this kinda stuff. They know the DA's all over and will work it all out. Yes, it will cost dearly. That old saying "You have to pay for your mistakes" still rings true today....

Name dropping does not work anymore, so if you know someone, don't bother.

Lawyer up. I'll bet you're in for $500 to $700 total between legal and fines.

Get it done and behind you, and learn form it.

[F8LBITEva]

sounds like he's trying to tag you and bag you.

[MrBluGruv]

I suspect that the 3 incidents will be rolled into one. The point of the three is to show that you were in excess of 90 MPH for nearly one-mile. You got on it and STAYED ON IT for more than just a few seconds. 90+ MPH on a public highway is asking for trouble or even worse. The Marauderboi episode apparently hasn't sunk in yet.

But I wasn't, and he could not have possibly observed it anyways. The tickets show him only as the citing officer and that he personally observed all infractions. There was a distinct point between tickets number 1 and 2 that I remember being held up by traffic going about 55 in the 60, it was at the point between when the slow driver in the left lane changed lanes and I got stopped that I had picked up speed to pass that pack, and obviously got carried away with it. I never left O/D either, the time that I would not dispute I was speeding was some point after I passed that pack.


And really, don't bring up the death. I haven't forgotten that for a second, it's hard to when the guy was my own age. Just don't open up that can of worms, it's unnecessary and has the potential to get really ugly.

[SID210SA]

Your ^^^^^ point is ???? This was a mistake ... a BIG MISTAKE and the court will decide how to handle it. Some of the comments here will help prepare him for the outcome which probably won't be light.


That was exactly my point....you bolded my point.....:confused:

[White Knuckles]

has the potential to get really ugly.

EXACTLY..........driving nearly 100 in traffic?

This is a one sided story.....in court the other side may come out.
Maybe this officer has had the unfortunate task of notifying next of kin.

I seriously doubt you were targeted as a revenue source for the city.....at 98mph in a ??zone........more likely that this officer was doing his job..."TO PROTECT and SERVE".....You and the citizens of San Antonio.

[MrBluGruv]

I still get the feeling a lot of people think I was trying to speed and go fast just to go fast.

I will still contend that I was not going that fast, but that will be decided in court. All I know is, once traffic cleared, I went to pass at a civil rate, then ended up keeping going. As I said before, I know more than one person can vouch for the fact that this car will pull like it's nothing in 4th gear on a smooth highway, and given the fact that the car never felt like it was on the brink of not being controllable and that there wasn't even close to enough traffic to feel like whatever speed I was at was unsafe (especially since I didn't seem to really be passing traffic at any ludicrous rate relative to their speed), it didn't trigger in my mind that I was going as fast as he alleges. <1 mile isn't a very long stretch, in both distance or time at highway speeds, so it's not out of the question that a momentary lapse of focus could lead to a situation like this, which is grossly out-of-the-ordinary for me.

[White Knuckles]

so it's not out of the question that a momentary lapse of focus could lead to a situation like this, which is grossly out-of-the-ordinary for me.

I will contend that most accidents, highways deaths-----your tickets, result due to a "momentary lapse of focus". At high speeds it just happens that much faster.

That pack of traffic that held you up momentarily-----Have you ever looked up in your rear view mirror to see a car overtaking you at a high rate of speed? You said they moved over and let you by --- your speed rose. Do you think there were any cell phones in those cars? Perhaps the waiting officer had been alerted to your high speeds----:dunno:

[MrBluGruv]

Perhaps the waiting officer had been alerted to your high speeds----:dunno:


Highly unlikely, I don't follow closely and I didn't fly up on them because I wasn't speeding at that point, the highway essentially just starts at that point and it comes to being after a fairly low-speed curve from the interstate highway 35 southbound direction onto westbound NE loop 410. When I was near them, I was nothing out of the ordinary for driving on 410 (except maybe the part that I DIDN'T tailgate the guy going 55 in a 60 in the left lane of traffic.). Granted in the end I had apparently worked up some speed, at the point I was near them that would have been a very lucky guess on their part where I was gonna end up.

[PonyUP]

A good driver must always be aware of their surroundings and their own vehicle, which means you should glance at the speedometer every once in awhile to track your speed, then you can avoid this in the future.

But in the end, you are guilty of speeding and deserve 1 ticket, not 3. But follow the advice of those on here and spend the money for the lawyer, it will probably save your license.

Like it or not, perception often times rules the day. And older generations will always look at younger generations as irresponsible, whether it's true or not. Therefor fighting it with the arguments you posted, even if true, will not get you anywhere. Hire a lawyer and they can help, probably in the end will wind up with an expensive ticket, but at least only one and a license in hand.

good luck in your endeavor :beer:

Many of us have made the mistake of speeding and gotten tickets, like you said it was a momentary lapse of focus, unfortunately that lapse will cost you a few bucks.

[DeadVic]

I was born and raised in Iowa. Then lived in TX for 10 years. Now I'm in AZ.

I submit-

1. the great people of Iowa are conservative when it comes to speed in excess of 55MPH. There are NO roads in iowa above 55 unless it is a four lane divided highway. Iowa was the last State to adopt a 70MPH limit on the interstates West of the Mississippi River and only outside of any populated area. So, I would not expect anyone from Iowa to understand the way traffic moves in Texas.

2. They drive fast in Texas. Speed limit is 80 on I10 West of San Antonio for a reason. There are tons of two lane roads with 70mph speed limits. People drive 75-80 plus everywhere they go and 86 to 88 in an 80 zone is acceptable. San Antonio does not follow this rule however, in SA the roads run up to about 70-75 on the loop and after that you're asking for it. But, that said, i've done 90plus on this road. I just didn't get caught.

3. In AZ they took out the cameras because the good people of AZ revolted and refused to pay for the scameras. Iowa is now making the same mistake AZ started almost five years ago. They are allowing their elected officials to fleece them. Will the elected officials who cater to the pussified public learn the same lesson in Iowa? I say yes and by 2014 all cameras are removed from state roads.

[duhtroll]

]I was born and raised in Iowa.

3. In AZ they took out the cameras because the good people of AZ revolted and refused to pay for the scameras. Iowa is now making the same mistake AZ started almost five years ago. They are allowing their elected officials to fleece them. Will the elected officials who cater to the pussified public learn the same lesson in Iowa? I say yes and by 2014 all cameras are removed from state roads.

I haven't seen a speed camera in IA yet. I have seen plenty of red light cameras, though.

[Paul T. Casey]

Perhaps the officer was following you for a while and got 3 separate readings off his radar? A short burst to 90 to get by someone may have gotten you a lighter rap, but if you were cruising at say 88 mph for any distance... In most states, 25 to 30 over will get you a reckless charge as well as the speeding fines. As for the momentary lapse, at 90 mph your are moving 132 feet every second. That's a football field in 2.5 seconds. I'm not saying I never "air it out," but inside city limits do merit much more caution.

[Vortex]

I still get the feeling a lot of people think I was trying to speed and go fast just to go fast.

I will still contend that I was not going that fast, but that will be decided in court. All I know is, once traffic cleared, I went to pass at a civil rate, then ended up keeping going. As I said before, I know more than one person can vouch for the fact that this car will pull like it's nothing in 4th gear on a smooth highway, and given the fact that the car never felt like it was on the brink of not being controllable and that there wasn't even close to enough traffic to feel like whatever speed I was at was unsafe (especially since I didn't seem to really be passing traffic at any ludicrous rate relative to their speed), it didn't trigger in my mind that I was going as fast as he alleges. <1 mile isn't a very long stretch, in both distance or time at highway speeds, so it's not out of the question that a momentary lapse of focus could lead to a situation like this, which is grossly out-of-the-ordinary for me.

I dont recommend you use this argument in court. Judges could care less about the "performance" of your car. Also, lets be honest here, the intersection of Loop 410 and I-35 is probably the busiest in Bexar County. One piece of advice; Im sure most of us drove like (insert phrase here) on public roads and highways when we were younger. We were just lucky I guess. After you lose a few friends to bad accidents, or worse, cause somebody else to lose theirs like an innocent driver going to work or school or a small child or whatever, then you realize driving close to 100 mph on Loop 410 is a bad idea. Unless your lawyer gets you off on a technicality you are going to have to learn the expensive way on this one. Not trying to be a (insert phrase here) but rather trying to pass on some knowledge Ive picked up over the years. Im sure there are others on the board who feel the same.

[Haggis]

Enroll in a driver safety course now, before the court date. That will show that you took some sense of responsibilty.

[boatmangc]

Enroll in a driver safety course now, before the court date. That will show that you took some sense of responsibilty.

Absolutely " your honor, my client realizes he made a mistake and wants to do the right thing" will be a good opening statement.

Get a V1. It would have told you of radar in your future in plenty of time.
With that said, I have no idea how fast my car will go either. With the exception of at a drag strip, my car usually doesn't get over 85 mph, I use the V1 to keep myself safe.

When I was close to your age I was ticketed in one setting for excessive speed, careless driving, reckless driving, improper passing, and attempting to flee and elude.
I was wrong, I lost my license as I should have. Nothing like a 10 foot tall bullet proof 19 Y.O. with a big block Comet to try and prove rules are for somebody else.

[CBT]

Absolutely " your honor, my client realizes he made a mistake and wants to do the right thing" will be a good opening statement.

Get a V1. It would have told you of radar in your future in plenty of time.
With that said, I have no idea how fast my car will go either. With the exception of at a drag strip, my car usually doesn't get over 85 mph, I use the V1 to keep myself safe.

When I was close to your age I was ticketed in one setting for excessive speed, careless driving, reckless driving, improper passing, and attempting to flee and elude.
I was wrong, I lost my license as I should have. Nothing like a 10 foot tall bullet proof 19 Y.O. with a big block Comet to try and prove rules are for somebody else.

How close did you get to getting away?

[boatmangc]

How close did you get to getting away?
I had em in the straights but the turns he would start reeling me in.
FYI ;
1) Never do doughnuts in a gravel parking lot without checking for LE vehicles 1st
2) Rocks landing on the hood of said LE vehicle will persuade LEO in said vehicle to pursue with vigor
3) Never, ever attempt this stunt 5:00 rush hour traffic, traffic lights will catch up to you.
4) When he catches you listen closely when he says "I am gong to un-cuff you, if you try and run I'll shoot you"

That is all.

[CBT]

I had em in the straights but the turns he would start reeling me in.
FYI ;
1) Never do doughnuts in a gravel parking lot without checking for LE vehicles 1st
2) Rocks landing on the hood of said LE vehicle will persuade LEO in said vehicle to pursue with vigor
3) Never, ever attempt this stunt 5:00 rush hour traffic, traffic lights will catch up to you.
4) When he catches you listen closely when he says "I am gong to un-cuff you, if you try and run I'll shoot you"

That is all.
Muhahaha!! Epic!

[Taemian]

A good driver must always be aware of their surroundings and their own vehicle, which means you should glance at the speedometer every once in awhile to track your speed, then you can avoid this in the future.

But in the end, you are guilty of speeding and deserve 1 ticket, not 3. But follow the advice of those on here and spend the money for the lawyer, it will probably save your license.

Like it or not, perception often times rules the day. And older generations will always look at younger generations as irresponsible, whether it's true or not. Therefor fighting it with the arguments you posted, even if true, will not get you anywhere. Hire a lawyer and they can help, probably in the end will wind up with an expensive ticket, but at least only one and a license in hand.

good luck in your endeavor :beer:

Many of us have made the mistake of speeding and gotten tickets, like you said it was a momentary lapse of focus, unfortunately that lapse will cost you a few bucks.

Great, sane reply!

So some well-liked kid dies driving a Marauder, and we all have to wring our hands about the evils of speeding as the outrage of the year? Let's continue that absurd logic and promise not only to not speed, but to stop driving altogether. Then we're sure to have no more tragedies...or freedom of choice so that matter. Or maybe we should blame someone else for not teaching the kid proper road rules and instilling discipline? Or blame it on the influence of racing video games and therefore ban them? Just keep looking for excuses to use until you finally get to "personal responsibility".

I mean too many sanctimonious, hypocritical folks are around here, seriously. (That's TMshF for short) Unless of course there's someone...anyone..on this board that claims to NEVER have participated in ANY type of behaviour that could've resulted in negative life-altering consequences? Didn't think so.

I'm a Teamster, and my license is my living. I sometimes drive explosives and ammo, other times I drive "A-list" cast of tv/movies. I've been to Bondurant's place and dragrace locally. Used to rally race and ice race as well. EVOC training when I was a LEO.

I regularly top over the speed limit when conditions are good and traffic is light. No tickets in 14( or 13?) years with no LEO contact whatsoever, and I live in a region of 3.2 million people. All things in moderation, folks.

I do find it interesting that the response to Mb's death and the speeding that caused it to be so dramatic. You can't even talk about speeding anymore without a finger waved under your nose. I wonder if someone here dies/died of cancer from smoking, or a sexually transmitted disease, or a drug overdose, or alchohol abuse, would the response be the same, all torches and pitchforks?

If not, then put on your hypocrite badge.

It's natural for humans to find everything funny or ok, until something personally affects them negatively. "Retard jokes" are funny to many people, until you have one or know one, for an example. Would you all stomp your feet if a retard joke is shown to exist in a past thread on this board? If so, why wasn't the outrage shown at the time of the thread? Simple...it didn't affect you so it wasn't offensive or painful.

My own dad died when I was in my early teens, so I know about loss of family and can relate to Mb's family. I'm neither uncaring nor unsympathetic, merely realistic. Some people do dumb things every day while others play it safe. Both can have tragedies occur to them.

I wonder if Mb's actions would have killed a busload of nuns, would the handwringers still despise speeding, or just young people instead? I read the article posted about his death and assumed he was driving the car. What of his passenger? What of the other family? Why does everyone offer prayers instead of condemnation for Mb even though he was directly responsible fo the death of another person? Questions you might want to ask yourself before you start slinging mud at a guy who asked about getting speeding tickets with no other person negatively affected.

[MrBluGruv]

I had em in the straights but the turns he would start reeling me in.
FYI ;
1) Never do doughnuts in a gravel parking lot without checking for LE vehicles 1st
2) Rocks landing on the hood of said LE vehicle will persuade LEO in said vehicle to pursue with vigor
3) Never, ever attempt this stunt 5:00 rush hour traffic, traffic lights will catch up to you.
4) When he catches you listen closely when he says "I am gong to un-cuff you, if you try and run I'll shoot you"

That is all.



Thank goodness I don't have a story like yours.



At the end of the day, I don't want people to think I'd try to justify what happened by looking at others' behavior, I don't believe in that.

I can admit when I'm wrong, and I slipped up and deserve the final ticket.

All I aim to do is receive a just reprimand for a lapse in attention, and I don't believe a triple-citation for the same violation is just.

I wasn't racing, I wasn't trying to set a new land speed record, I wasn't weaving in and out of traffic, I didn't evade the cop, I complied with everything he asked, I just lapsed and am willing to pay my stupid tax on it, in a fair amount.

[boatmangc]

Thank goodness I don't have a story like yours.



At the end of the day, I don't want people to think I'd try to justify what happened by looking at others' behavior, I don't believe in that.

I can admit when I'm wrong, and I slipped up and deserve the final ticket.

All I aim to do is receive a just reprimand for a lapse in attention, and I don't believe a triple-citation for the same violation is just.

I wasn't racing, I wasn't trying to set a new land speed record, I wasn't weaving in and out of traffic, I didn't evade the cop, I complied with everything he asked, I just lapsed and am willing to pay my stupid tax on it, in a fair amount.

That's one of many. I was a bad kid.....

[4play]

cant you ust go talk to the JP any time? take your tickets down to the court house and see if you can tke care of them sooner, waiting is the worse part.

[SHERIFF]

I know more than one person can vouch for the fact that this car will pull like it's nothing in 4th gear on a smooth highway, and given the fact that the car never felt like it was on the brink of not being controllable and that there wasn't even close to enough traffic to feel like whatever speed I was at was unsafe (especially since I didn't seem to really be passing traffic at any ludicrous rate relative to their speed), it didn't trigger in my mind that I was going as fast as he alleges. <1 mile isn't a very long stretch, in both distance or time at highway speeds, so it's not out of the question that a momentary lapse of focus could lead to a situation like this, which is grossly out-of-the-ordinary for me.

Not buying it. Anybody in any vehicle can feel the difference between 70 mph and 98 mph. It's like comparing night and day. And no judge is going to have any sympathy whatsoever when they hear a cop testify to "98 mph".

But, even so, your biggest concern here is how long you will have car insurance after the conviction. And once cancelled, it's going to be hard to get insurance anywhere at any price.

[MrBluGruv]

I don't know how many more ways I can say I contest the speed he's alleged me of going and the distance he's alleged I did it for.

But it doesn't really matter anyways, what's done is done.

I'm holding out to have the two first tickets dropped in favor of pleading guilty to the 3rd, and at that pointing praying for the mercy of the court to go lenient on me as this is a first offense and way out of the ordinary for my usual driving behavior.

And that's that.


I guess I'm forever going to be a bad person for my attention slipping one time.

[LSp8]

That's just F*((king ridiculous how can you give somebody 3 tickets for one offense that the jack azz police officer would feed this guy rope to hang himself. The officer should have pulled you over when he first noticed you speeding instead of just doing nothing and waiting till you drove faster. If you were such a menace by putting people in danger then he should get in trouble for letting you for so long. It sounds like a scam for the city to make more money and inflict unnecessary punishment. One speeding ticket would have been good enough but damn 3!!!! GOOD LUCK and I hope you can get the judge to at least knock off 2 of the tickets and reduce the fine/points on 1.

[MrBluGruv]

...and reduce the fine/points on 1.


That would be a blessing for me at this point, but I'm not at all optimistic for it. Hell I'm prepared for it to not happen, I can admit when I slip up and this is one of those times. Like I've said before though, I think 3 tickets, especially given the circumstances, is absurd and unjust.