Dual Mode Mufflers??

[Marauderjack]

Hey Folks....

I was on another board and someone brought up something about our MM's having "Dual Mode" mufflers from Ford??:confused: They said that there is a door or gate that closes at idle and mild acceleration but opens under hard acceleration for better flow!!:rolleyes:

Mine does idle quietly and barks when I get on it??;)

Anything to this or is it some "sayer" pulling my leg??:confused:

Marauderjack:D

[RF Overlord]

I guess I'll be the first to throw the :bs: flag...

I just can't see Ford paying Arvin/Meritor to design a specific muffler for this car, one that's never been done before...with little trapdoors, no less...

But, hey, if I'm wrong, that WOULD be a cool muffler...

[MMdriver03]

That would be the first time i heard that......

[jfclancy]

nice concept but I must agree with RF glad I be wearing boots

Joe Clancy

[TheDealer]

This might be what he's talking about!!!
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/0201mmff_500exhaust/

[MMdriver03]

There's more to the FR500 exhaust than meets the eye. Under normal loads, the exhaust gases go through the usual muffler baffles to quiet the sound. Under heavy or full throttle, however, the gases force open a trap door in the muffler, giving you a veritable straight-through design--not to mention an insanely wicked sound. They're called dual-mode mufflers.(info from The Dealers post)

WOW i guess its for real.thanks for info Mr Dealer!

[TheDealer]

Always glad to help!!! Ray

[SergntMac]

Well, I learn something new everyday here, why not today?

Those Ford Racing dudes are sneaky, that why I love a lot of their stuff. 13x RWHP and likewise RWTQ are nice numbers from a cat-back system. Wonder what in "bang for the buck" index is on this.

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
But, hey, if I'm wrong, that WOULD be a cool muffler...

OK, so I was half-wrong; it IS a cool muffler, but it isn't a Marauder part...although I'm sure Marty "The Kludge-meister" will have a pair on his car any minute now...

[TheDealer]

The 04 Ford Racing Catolog has these mufflers. It's a kit with 2 2.5" inlet and outlet mufflers. It retails for $321.95. Part number m-5230-bp2

[junehhan]

That right there would pretty much be the ultimate muffler. However, I wonder if there is every a chance that the "trapdoor" could ever get stuck or jammed, or worse it get's gummed up and doesn't open all the way..................

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by junehhan
I wonder if there is every a chance that the "trapdoor" could ever get stuck or jammed, or worse it get's gummed up and doesn't open all the way..................

Officer Bill: "License, registration, and proof of insurance, please.."

june: "Honest, officer, I have to drive at WOT all the time, or the trapdoor in my muffler will get gummed up..."

Officer Bill: "Ri-i-i-i-ght. Step out of the car and blow up this balloon, please..."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Marauderjack]

Sooooooo.......:confused: :confused:

Do we have these "trapdoor" gadgets or not???:confused:

Marauderjack:D

PS: I'm gonna start another oil thread!!:D

[CRUZTAKER]

No trap doors on my magnaflows:D Just freeflowin ALL the time!

[MMdriver03]

Originally posted by Marauderjack
Sooooooo.......:confused: :confused:

Do we have these "trapdoor" gadgets or not???:confused:

Marauderjack:D

PS: I'm gonna start another oil thread!!:D NO!!!!! not another oil thread:mad2:

[martyo]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
"The Kludge-meister"

:confused:

[woaface]

I've heard about these mufflers...and the first time I heard about it was on the Nissan website a couple years back...and at that point they were used on several of the cars. But I don't believe it was one door but several inside the muffler...

[woaface]

Here's the link to the video...it is the fourth video posted! Maybe it is just one door...

http://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/MediaGallery/1,,29146,00.html#videos

[Second Wind]

I have noticed on the outer front (near the hanger rod) of my stock mufflers, a small 2 inch protrusion that I figured was an inlet for another application. The protrusion appears to have been capped. I really didn't examinine it closely (and it's raing here right now), but I AM curious just exactly what it is..Any ideas?

I'm sure I'm not the only one here that still has stock exhaust.

[woaface]

Second Wind...Pictures! I LOVE pictures, I can't understand what almost anyone is saying ever, period, without one: )A luxury for me, an un-needed request...but if you ever get around to it!

[Second Wind]

I'll try to snap a couple tomorrow when my carport floor is dry..

[Second Wind]

woaface,

Logan already has a picture posted..Search for Crappy exhaust system. The parts I was referring to, look like two small rusted cans sticking from the sides (outboard, front) or the mufflers.

[TheDealer]

They are drone dampers, to stop droning noise!!!!!

[Second Wind]

Thanks Dealer..

[Marauderer]

No, we don't have these, this is an aftermarket design.

[RCSignals]

So these FRPP mufflers are really an automatic exhaust dump

[schuvwj]

Ok, who is going to try this muffler mod. first?

Initial information on these FRPP mufflers sounds like the best of both worlds. But it has to work properly. No sticky dump doors or drone.

If they work right I will have a set soon!

[junehhan]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
Officer Bill: "License, registration, and proof of insurance, please.."

june: "Honest, officer, I have to drive at WOT all the time, or the trapdoor in my muffler will get gummed up..."

Officer Bill: "Ri-i-i-i-ght. Step out of the car and blow up this balloon, please..."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

LOL, driving WOT has it's benefits I guess. At least it helps keep the carbon from building up in the engine, if anything! I wonder who will be the first on this board to try this mod, if it can work!

[woaface]

I see them now! They are quite odd looking...

[JohnE]

The Infinity G35 sedan also has this technology in its muffler. They call it a "variable capacity muffler". However, the coupe does not... Infinity.Com (http://www.infiniti.com/content/0,,cid-24887_sctid-32005,00.html) Pretty cool idea.

I may look into the FRPP mufflers. I want my ride quiet and droan free under normal driving, but not restricted in sprints.

[woaface]

Well, given Infiniti (correctly spelled) is a branch of Nissan, that would make sense. I've heard the coupes...they sound like somethin from Le Mans. It was nice though, I was able to appreciate it. Hey JohnE, that's a nice lookin Marquis! I understand why anyone might want to supercharge it.

[schuvwj]

Any new information on the availability of this dual mode muffler from Ford yet?

[TheDealer]

Just checked the 2004 Ford Racing Catolog. They still only list them for Mustangs. RAY

[schuvwj]

Originally posted by TheDealer
Just checked the 2004 Ford Racing Catolog. They still only list them for Mustangs. RAY

Thanks Ray!

[swc69]

Those are a great option for those of us that want loud at times, but also need no-drone/quiet for long trips. Too bad they won't fit our cars....

As I look further into exhaust options I keep coming back to the McCord Powerplate: servo controlled exhaust by-pass.

http://www.mccordcg.com/mpp/mpp.htm

Total cost would be about $240 including a set of Jeg's exhaust cut-outs to mount the Powerplates to.

I suppose for another $150 you could run the by-passed exhaust through regular MM exhaust tips and have them located in front of the rear wheels. Hmmm - maybe I'm getting carried away....

There's a full size template in their FAQ section, In the next week or so I'm going to climb under my MM and see if I could fit this set-up in there.

SWC
2003 300A

[schuvwj]

SCW why not use the McCord Powerplates to bypass both mufflers. Then just run your exhaust around the mufflers and through the tips only?


I like that idea!

[SergntMac]

woeface...This isn't a spelling bee, don't spoil the ambiance. You didn't misunderstand anything, did you?

What makes y'all think this dual mode muffler won't fit our MMs? I think they will fit just fine. The 2.5" OD inlet is a perfect match, and the 2.5" OD outlet can neck down just fine for our 2.25" OD mandrel bent tailpipe. Exhaust gasses are much cooler by the time they reach this reduction in OD, and this joint should not be a bottle neck.

Of course, I am presumming that y'all have upgraded the OEM exhaust pipe to either the Reinhart Cobra kit, or the Kook's header upgrade. The 321.95 cost of this muffler kit is a fair deal, you're getting two mufflers here, for about what aftermarket mufflers would cost. But, if you are building on the OEM exhaust pipe, I have to ask why?

With the OEM exhaust system in place, you would be lucky to enjoy half the value of this technology. Remember that the power gains reported by MM&FF came from installing a full 2.5" OD "cat-back" system with X pipe, (M-5230-M58) which is 695. Don't be goofy now, add 300 bucks to this 695., and get a full 2.5" OD exhaust system from Reinhart, eh?

BTW, the '04 FRP catalogue also offers the M-5230-T2 tips, which is our MEGS tip, for 30 bucks each, and "while supplies last."

[swc69]

Shuv - I thought about that, but I haven't checked clearance under the car to see if it would fit.

It would require a set of cut-outs in front of and after the mufflers, and I'm not sure if there is enough room to install cut-outs in the back. I need to climb underneath and inspect.

Serg - I'm glad you brought up the point about the x-pipe and the larger rear pipes. I was half thinking just to buy the mufflers and not install the rest of the piping, but I probably wouldn't get the same HP/TQ improvements.

But - even if I was to spend the $'s for a full Reinheat exhaust I wouldn't get the main option that we are discussing - quiet when I want, and loud on demand.

[schuvwj]

Originally posted by SergntMac
With the OEM exhaust system in place, you would be lucky to enjoy half the value of this technology. Remember that the power gains reported by MM&FF came from installing a full 2.5" OD "cat-back" system with X pipe, (M-5230-M58) which is 695. Don't be goofy now, add 300 bucks to this 695., and get a full 2.5" OD exhaust system from Reinhart, eh?


Mac I did not know that Reinhart sold 2,5" exhaust componets from the X-pipe back.

I already have the headers, East Flow Cats and X-pipe all 2.5" but choking down to stock muflers and pipes from the X-pipe back.

I guess I need to give Dennis a call!

Thanks!

[SergntMac]

Bill, if you have all that, all you need is a set of Magnaflows in 18" with 2.5 OD inlet, and change the pipe between your present muffler and the connection with the exhaust pipe to 2.5" OD. The Magnaflows will neck down to the 2.25" OD tailpipe real nice. Any muffler shop can do this, and you're up to date.

Don't expect a remarkable gain from this change Bill, I did this in ATL with before and after dynos, and picked up 4 HP just from changing the mufflers and the connector pipes to DRs setup. I had to make some changes anyway, my Ravin Z-55 mufflers burned out from all the highway driving this year, and the car was getting too loud. So, I changed up while I was at it, but I probably would not have made this change alone. I believe it was worth it, but you'll have to decide on your own.

[schuvwj]

Originally posted by SergntMac
Bill, if you have all that, all you need is a set of Magnaflows in 18" with 2.5 OD inlet, and change the pipe between your present muffler and the connection with the exhaust pipe to 2.5" OD. The Magnaflows will neck down to the 2.25" OD tailpipe real nice. Any muffler shop can do this, and you're up to date.

Don't expect a remarkable gain from this change Bill, I did this in ATL with before and after dynos, and picked up 4 HP just from changing the mufflers and the connector pipes to DRs setup. I had to make some changes anyway, my Ravin Z-55 mufflers burned out from all the highway driving this year, and the car was getting too loud. So, I changed up while I was at it, but I probably would not have made this change alone. I believe it was worth it, but you'll have to decide on your own.


Thanks Mac! Very good advise.
I'm sure there is a muffler shop in town that can accommodate this mod.
Have you herd of anybody using the Magaflow 20" and how they sound through the rpm range?
I am trying to get away from the low to mid-rpm drone, especially when the engine is cold.

[FordNut]

Reports are that the 20" won't fit. Maybe the 18" with baffles would work for you. They're available either with or without baffles. Myself, I'm happy with my Edelbrocks.

[johnjamis]

My 18" Magnaflows are a little too loud for me. Magnaflow says the baffled muffler is louder than the straight thru glass pack. Do you know if your Edelbrock mufflers are quieter than the Magnaflows? Thanks, John

[woaface]

I'll take them! How much? I'm half joking....

[FordNut]

John, I'll compare mine with Todd's next weekend and let you know.

[johnjamis]

woaface, I'll let you know. John

[woaface]

I doubt I'll have the money for a whole kit(headers and all),but if I can get my hands on a set of mufflers!

Thanks!
-James

[warren]

Got more info. on these Ford Dual Mode Mufflers today
Pg. 111 dual mode mufflers. M-5230-BP2, 04 Ford Racing Cat.
Also see mag. write up ..
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/0201mmff_500exhaust/
This art. said they produced 13.6hp & 15.1 TQ in a 2001 Cobra (engine
like ours... kindah)

Spoke to an engineer at Arvin Metritor............
He said they are only available thru Ford and we can buy
the just the mufflers (2 1/2"in & out)
.
They will fit our MMs with some modification and should
produce around 15hp at the wheels !!! oh my!!!!!!!!!!
The valve inside opens a 2psi. of back pressure at about
2800+rpm. WOT. When the valve is shut they work like a
turbo performance muffler, when open it's like a straight thru
pipe.
Also said they made a set for the cobra with an X pipe in back
that was done only to gain back the 5hp loss in the stock tail
pipes because of the 90deg. bend. At WOT they howl.
He said they really work great.

Has anyone tried these yet ???

WarrenB

[FordNut]

I explored the idea a bit, but they're only available with the inlet & outlet on the same side. If you wanted to modify the tailpipes or go with custom tailpipes they might work out ok.

[David Morton]

I was watching "!TRUCKS!" on Spike and the guy had some really cool exhaust cutouts that were solenoid operated. Since then I've been having dreams of sidepipes with a black powdercoat finish. I could hook up the solenoids to open up to the sidepipes with the same PCM output that is turning the A/C compressor off, which happens at WOT, and voilla! Automatic, on demand, wide open exhaust!

Anybody got a thread on the electric cutouts?

[TripleTransAm]

I explored the idea a bit, but they're only available with the inlet & outlet on the same side. If you wanted to modify the tailpipes or go with custom tailpipes they might work out ok.


If their inlet and outlet are on the same side, it doesn't make for a very good 'straight -through' design, I would think...

About the electric cutouts... the ones I've seen are slow. Factor in about 4-5 seconds at least before they are completely open, once they begin to open. I was toying with the idea (before purchasing the car back in 2003) of having one installed in my H-pipe, only I have no clue what the sound quality is like at that point in the exhaust path!

[David Morton]

If they're slow, I'll have to go to plan B and put a switch inside the console where I'm putting the rest of the 007 switches, you know, oil slick, back window armor plate, rocket launcher and passenger ejection seat (BTW the ejection seat might look good to a certain guy who's wife trashed his wheels on a curb lately).

I would put the cutout right behind the O2 sensors for maximum noise levels and minimum restriction.

[TripleTransAm]

http://solo2.abac.com/avigdor/z28/flp%20cut%20out%20divx.rm

http://solo2.abac.com/avigdor/z28/flp%20cut%20out%20revving%20di vx.rm

You might have to replace each "%20" in all the above links with a single space in order to get them to work, or maybe not.

The results are impressive enough on an LS1 to make it a worthwhile mod... on a 281 ci 'cammer? Dunno yet...

[John F. Russo]

woeface...This isn't a spelling bee, don't spoil the ambiance. You didn't misunderstand anything, did you?

What makes y'all think this dual mode muffler won't fit our MMs? I think they will fit just fine. The 2.5" OD inlet is a perfect match, and the 2.5" OD outlet can neck down just fine for our 2.25" OD mandrel bent tailpipe. Exhaust gasses are much cooler by the time they reach this reduction in OD, and this joint should not be a bottle neck.

Of course, I am presumming that y'all have upgraded the OEM exhaust pipe to either the Reinhart Cobra kit, or the Kook's header upgrade. The 321.95 cost of this muffler kit is a fair deal, you're getting two mufflers here, for about what aftermarket mufflers would cost. But, if you are building on the OEM exhaust pipe, I have to ask why?

With the OEM exhaust system in place, you would be lucky to enjoy half the value of this technology. Remember that the power gains reported by MM&FF came from installing a full 2.5" OD "cat-back" system with X pipe, (M-5230-M58) which is 695. Don't be goofy now, add 300 bucks to this 695., and get a full 2.5" OD exhaust system from Reinhart, eh?

BTW, the '04 FRP catalogue also offers the M-5230-T2 tips, which is our MEGS tip, for 30 bucks each, and "while supplies last."


I am a fluid specialist not an air specialist. But I think the improvement in hp will not be that much greater when going from the Cobra without cutouts to Cobra with cutouts as compared to going from OEM without cutouts to OEM with cutouts.

What I'm saying is that having the Cobra exhaust with the cutlouts will not be that much better than the OEM with cutouts. One will have to test the concept to determine the exact amount of h.p. increase. Am I to do this since I don't have the Cobra exhaust yet but considering?

This would be a significant contribution to the website and other MM owners considering the most cost effective mods to consider. For those who do not care about money but performance, the larger exhaust pipe will increase the hp the most.

If one gets say less than 10 to 15% added hp. with the Cobra exhaust, it would be questionable to pay $1000 for the Reinhart exhaust mod. (I just called Dennis for the price).

What do you think about my analysis?