Thank you, BillyGman!

[SergntMac]

My sincere congrats to you, Billy, on your recent success. A 13.5x on a N/A Marauder is surely remarkable performance. You should be proud, I am sure it took a lot of hard work to achieve this distinction of being the fastest N/A Marauder.

I also want to say thanks for conducting this field experiment with Marty. A side by side comparasion of these two Marauders has produced a lot of valuable 411 for us in planning how to build an MM. You have been brave enough to stand your ground over the 4:56 gear ratio discussion in the face of nay-sayers. Perhaps I was among them, I don't recall, but it was never anything personal from my point of view. Nonetheless, you have vindicated yourself, Billy, and your decision, and this earns my praise. Bravo.

Likewise, you took a stand on the Kook's headers that got a bit sticky in the early discussion, but ultimately came to produce real 411 that is helpful for us all, moreso for the next batch of new owners. Again, my thanks, and again, kudos.

I recognize Marty's participation too. Marty was one of the first to install headers back when there were no options as they exist today. He was in the top ten of first users with the 4:10 gears, again when 4:30 and 4:56 were ratios not yet explored. Ditto the Stallion TC, and underdrive pullies. Marty has been very brave in risking mods, and with the limited mods that were availble to him at that time. First to break into the 13's too, mucho Kudos to the MOngoose, nice job MartyO.

Hey y'all, this would have been a race to watch, eh? Two closely matched Marauders going at it head to head? Well, at least by timeslip, but from the same track and under the same conditions. Let's peek again, at the data we have from this event.

MartyO.
ET: 13.580
Speed: 100.90
60': 1.921

BillyGman.
ET: 13.513
Speed: 101.35
60': 1.948

This is superb 411, IMHO. Now it's clearly proven that Stage I mods (chip, stat, plugs gearing and fine tuning) is the way to begin building your MM the way you want it. Adding Stage II mods (exhaust, torque converter and drive shaft) are very worthwhile investments too, if you want to carry on. Marty has the Eibach front springs and Reinhart sway bar, but those are more control mods than performance, and very worthwile on their own.

All of this with little risk to the overall health of the MM. Nothing done here by these two gents seems risky anymore, and the benefits are clearly outstanding. It is remarkable what can be done with an MM, and with "bolt-ons" too. We're two full seconds under a bone stock performance numbers, and with a modest investment.

Now I believe we have something all of us can benefit from. The options are many, vendors plentiful, and the owner doesn't have to worry about making a wrong decision by following his own personal preference. If you like the Kook's headers, you'll do good. If you prefer 4:10s, or, cannot consider other ratios due to other needs (highway fuel economy for one), not to worry, you're still in the game, competitive. Now everyone can pick and choose the many options available today, without missing out on the 1320 performance.

Now the playing field is level, it's a matter of driver's skill, and the few hints and tips we all curry to ourselves (tires and PSI, oil weights and viscosity, octane boost and so on).

Now it's a fair race to #1, no matter which vendor/option you choose to patronize. More fun ahead in the spring, eh?

[Ross]

I can see a rematch coming! Great times, guys.

[DEW34]

very well put sarge ! being a bracket racer i pay close
attention to the 60 footers did you notice how the
quicker et had a slower 60 footer , billys car might be
spinning commin out of the hole, if he can get a handle on
that it might et a little quicker yet
mike

[the fat bastid]

i was there too but have just been keeping quiet.
i'm tottaly stock and ran the same day those guys.

et: 14.850
speed:94.44
60': 2.278

i've got about 7000 miles on mine. and is 100% stock(execpt the gas and oil, heh).

i was running very well.
Not 14.5 or 14.7 freakishly well, but a few 14.8s, 14.9s, and 15.0s is nothing to sneeze at.

[martyo]

Gavin you definitely ran well!!!!

[TripleTransAm]

Gavin, what gas did you have in your MM? I'm beginning to wonder if the secret to a good ET on a stocker is the idle-to-3000 RPM performance... and I think ignition timing has something to do with it. Hence the incredible gains in cooler air...

[BillyGman]

thanks very much for those kind words, and for giving me the recognition that you have. That means a lot to me, because you are a senior member of this board, and one who also knows a lot about cars. I recently read one of your posts(I think it was from an old thread) where you made an excellent point about it not making a world of difference weather somebody drives a Ford, Chevy, or Mopar, but that it's more significant what each performance oriented owner decides to do to his car in order to get it to perform better than the factory did. You especially wrote about how there isn't neccessarily just one way to go about acheiving that performance goal.

I agree w/your statements about that 100%. There are different ways that someone can increase the performance of his car, and it's up to each individual to educate himself enough so that he can choose a winning combination. Yes, there are some guidelines to follow, and there are some do's and don'ts. But there are definately different winning combinations that one can choose. And quite often, atleast some of our choices will involve trade-offs of some sort. And it all boils down to what each individual's performance expectations are.

So I've always felt that if you perform some mods to your car, you shouldn't be doing so, just cuz everyone else did it that way. If you decide on something that's worked for somebody else, that's fine, but you should understand why and how the modification in question will enhance the performance of your car.

With a new car design like the Marauder, some of the things that we might try has to involve an educated guess, but that isn't neccessarily wrong as long as the experiment in question DOES involve as much education as possible.

With the gears, I simply was looking for more acceleration from a stand still on the street, and even the ability to light up the tires a little from a dead punch. So I tried the 4.10 gears, but it wasn't enough for me. I wanted more. So I went w/the 4.56's, and have never regreted it. Especially after adding the Stallion Torque converter like you, Marty, Logan, and a number of others have also.

And I also want to make it clear to everyone, that I agree w/you also about Marty's car, and about what Marty has done. Marty has one fast car, and just because my ET's were a SLIGHT bit better than his, doesn't mean that I look at Marty's car as a slouch. His car moves very well, and I'm not so sure that on the street you would even be able to tell the difference between the way my car moves, and the way Marty's does. Infact I'm sure that you wouldn't be able to tell. Because either way, it's such a small difference, that it has to be measured by electronic equipment such as is used at the dragstrip. So sure, I'm the one to beat among N/A Marauders for now, but I have Marty right behind me breathing fire down the back of my neck!!!!!

I also want everyone to know, that even though both Marty and myself were hoping to out-do each other at the track, it was a friendly, and a healthy competitive attitude between him and I. We went to the track together as friends, raced together as friends, and left there as friends.

Now those aren't just a bunch of flowery, or fancy words that I'm writing about Marty and I either. I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about. Both Marty and I were so busy racing that day at the track, that even after our first few runs, niether one of us knew what the other's ET's were, since we were usually both in the staging lanes at the same time.

So after a few runs, I went over and talked to Marty, and we both discussed what our results were in the way of ET's. And when Marty heard that I had beat his best time, his first reaction was to make a joke out of it by throwing a four letter word at me, and then he immediately shook my hand to congratulate me. And if Marty had beaten my time, I would've reacted in a similar way( after slashing his tires!!!:D ). And the both of us went to the air pump at the track together, and we both discussed w/each other what PSI that we were going to try in both the front and back tires. There were no secrets. After all, we aren't professional racers trying to earn a living from any of this. This is only supposed to be to have some fun, to measure the effectiveness of the mods that we've performed to our cars, and perhaps for a few minor short term bragging rights here on the board. No biggie.

So yes, we all want to do our best, but it's all about us helping eachother to find what number of combinations will work best in the Marauder, and having some fun, and making some friends along the way. And BTW, I also have an appointment for Friday at the Dyno, so look for the new thread that I'll post to show my results. I'm sorry that I will not have a baseline Dyno run to compare it to, but atleast what I'll offer can be used to compare w/what others have posted.

Thanks again for your comments MAC, and I'm really glad that you've started this thread. Is this board great, or what?????

Hey, I think I might have even learned how to form paragraphs!!:P

[SergntMac]

You're a good man Billy, I am pleased with your words. I am sure Marty is likewise complimented.

Paragraphs...LOL!

Be safe my friend, happy holidays.

And happy holidays to y'all.

[MM03MOK]

Originally posted by BillyGman
Hey, I think I might have even learned how to form paragraphs!!:P I'm proud of ya! I learned ya well.

Great posts by my friends BillyGman and Mac. Awesome numbers by my friends MartyO & BillyGman.

[Ross]

is that there will never be one "fastest" Marauder, either SC or NA. At any given time, there will be a fastest MM, but as soon as someone posts a new fastest time, others will be looking at ways to beat it. That way, we all learn from what others have done, and we all get better ourselves. And even if I never have the quickest car, I'm happy seeing the success of my friends.

[WolfeBros]

Nicely done Billy and Marty. Congrats on your awesome times.
Nicely said Mac.

And thanks to all three of you for what you have done for the Marauder community. You have made it easier for others to take advantage of your experience and walk on the right path.

^^^ Class acts all three ^^^
:beer: :bows: :beer:

[jspradii]

Back when I was 19 (31 years ago), I raced a 1968 GTO. I had dual Holley 850 CFM dual feed 4bbls on it. To say the least, the 75.00 each I had to pay for those carbueretors was a lot of money; like the 175.00 for the headers, etc. Back then, a timing light and a screwdriver was how you tuned your car. There are so many more possibilities now, with EEC's.
The construction of my bore/stroke job to start on Dec 29 will rate my engine at 1000 hp. My intention is to eventually supercharge the car for street/strip use, and with the advent of he Noszle nitrous system by NOS, have the nitrous application for strip use only. S/C and nitrous. Iam building the car now I wish I could have built in 1970. It is dream for me that could easily be a nightmare, but at the point where the car runs 11's, I'll have to buy another MM for a daily driver (or maybe an Aston-Martin). I expect to ruin a few transmissions, but it will all be to further my need for middle age speed. My speed guy (not Dennis, he already understands this) asked me, "Does your wife know how much you spend on this car?" My reply: "I guess she figures it's cheaper than another woman." He says "But this IS your other woman." How right he is.
Billy and Marty are right. I don't tend to talk about what I'm doing to the car, since I'm more interested in what other people are doing. The only difference between me and Marty at Ennis were his better reaction times (he IS younger than I am), and the fact that I was running a 75 hp nitrous shot, which cut that half second from his to mine. I'm convinced that if I let Marty or Billy drive my car, either could post the record for some time to come. My only hope of overcoming "low and slow" at age 50 is to pump up the platform. I look forward to seeing you all as soon as (Bristol) possible.
LOL, you guys in the N & NE stay warm, and we'll see you in the spring.

[BillyGman]

I've stated the following in another post, but I don't know if you've read it so here it goes again:

w/all the mods you've done to your car, I'm sure you're making so much more power than my car is making, that you're spinning the stock street tires all over the place coming off the line.

So if you invest in a set of slicks, then I know that you'll easily beat my ET of 13.5 sec.;)

[BillyGman]

Originally posted by MM03MOK
I'm proud of ya! I learned ya well.

.........yeah, I always wanted to write a paragraph.......
may-B now eye kan becum en awther!!!!

[jspradii]

Billy-
My recent misfortune on Dec 12 (the spinnout to the ditch), gave me the opportunity to buy two slightly scratched wheels that I can send to Lidio for widening. Now I can put some drag radials or slicks on and we'll see. I don't really look forward to putting a roll cage in the MM, but between he NHRA/IHRA, the faster the car, the more need there is for protection (not like the car isn't heavy enough already)!

[BillyGman]

there are a number of other members here who know more about racing rules than I do, but for what it's worth, it's my understanding that you'll have to have a roll cage only if you get into the 11's........so if that's true, then perhaps you'll need to make sure that you'll hook up good enough to get into the 11's

[jspradii]

What are you doing up this late? You are correct, I'm licensed to drive NHRA/IHRA. Once my rear axle is done, the tires and suspension are next. The motor and the rest are almost an afterthought to those guys. They just want to mke sure you don't CHEAT. Whatever that Means. How do you cheat with a two ton sedan?

[BillyGman]

yeah, I work nights, and sometimes I'm so wound up from work that i don't get to sleep right away when I get home. Thanks for explaining. I just was thinking that maybe you won't even get into the 11's so in that case, you wouldn't even need the roll cage unless you wanted it anyway.

But it sounds to me that you know where you're going w/this car...........so that's fine.:)

[jspradii]

Marty and I met at Ennis. I look forward to meeting you. This is a CLASS group of guys.

[BillyGman]

I think it would be great to meet you as well. I'm sorry that I missed that event in Ennis. I'll have to pay attention to future events. Well as for now, I better get some shut-eye, cuz I have an appointment at the Dyno in 7 hours!!!!!!

[MM03MOK]

Originally posted by BillyGman
.........yeah, I always wanted to write a paragraph.......
may-B now eye kan becum en awther!!!! You're in New England, so it's "awtha!"

:lol:

[BillyGman]

Originally posted by MM03MOK
You're in New England, so it's "awtha!"

:lol:

Maybe in Cape Cod, New "Yawk", or "BA Habba" it would be, but not in Connecticut.;)