#420 or #504?

[a_d_a_m]

I'm sure this has been answered here several times, but as I've been drinking Canadian Club and Rolling Rock all night, I'm not really able to do a search. Ya dig? Cool. :)

After my RoyLPita inquiry, I thought my number was #504.

Ford, according to my certificate, says my number is #420.

Which is accurate and why is there a difference of 84 between the two?

Sorry if this is a Dom-esque thread...

[fastblackmerc]

I'm sure this has been answered here several times, but as I've been drinking Canadian Club and Rolling Rock all night, I'm not really able to do a search. Ya dig? Cool. :)

After my RoyLPita inquiry, I thought my number was #504.

Ford, according to my certificate, says my number is #420.

Which is accurate and why is there a difference of 84 between the two?

Sorry if this is a Dom-esque thread...

No idea but I'd go with the Ford number.

I'm sure Brian did the best he could, but only Ford knows the correct number .

[Bluerauder]

I'm sure this has been answered here several times, but as I've been drinking Canadian Club and Rolling Rock all night, I'm not really able to do a search. Ya dig? Cool. :)

After my RoyLPita inquiry, I thought my number was #504.

Ford, according to my certificate, says my number is #420.

Which is accurate and why is there a difference of 84 between the two?

As I remember the history on this, RoyLPita's numbers were based on VIN sequence because we were unable to get any official information from FORD. This sequencing assumed that vehicles came off the assembly line in numerical order.

After many years (about 5) of trying, the Ford Performance Group (FPG) was convinced (by MCM) to offer the Limited Production certificates (for a price). The sequence numbers on these certificates represent the "actual" order that the cars came off the assembly line.

I seem to recall that my original sequence number was about 15-20 different than what FPG said.

A difference of 84 seems quite unusual. Maybe your car got near the end of the line and was missing a bunch of parts and had to be sent back in the line for completion. Found anything missing, yet?? ;)

:jk: on that last part. :P

[RoyLPita]

The sequence numbers that I gave out were in VIN order and just for a general idea. Ford offers theirs for a fee by the date and for a fee.

[a_d_a_m]

A difference of 84 seems quite unusual That's kind of what I was thinking. No big deal or anything, it's fine, I was just wondering.

I wonder, though, if anyone else has that big of a difference between their Ford number and their Roy number. :confused:

[Bluerauder]

That's kind of what I was thinking. No big deal or anything, it's fine, I was just wondering.

The plant workers probably pulled your car off the line and went cruising out to lunch and got back a little late. ;)

[RF Overlord]

I've been drinking Canadian Club and Rolling Rock all night, If you're going to drink boilermakers, at least use a decent whiskey...jeez. :shake:

[TFB]

The plant workers probably pulled your car off the line and went cruising out to lunch and got back a little late. ;)

LOL I doubt that... Mine went from #701 to #754 on the certificate...

The reason for the difference is vehicles are assigned a VIN when the order is received at the plant, but that sequence has nothing to do with the actual assembly... If Marauders had required any special handling on the assembly line(I don't think so), then STAP would have probably built them in groups, with VINs as much as several hundred numbers apart...

I have two '88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes that the VINs are just 570 units apart, but by the buck tag date on the radiator support, the one with the lower VIN was built over two weeks later(June 23 vs June 06)... The later car has a special promotional red paint(a '89 color) vs std white, I suspect those were built in "batches" irregardless to actual assigned VIN numbers... I've seen another red one that had a VIN just 45 units from my white one, it too was built a couple weeks later...

[J D]

It's actually quite simple guys, I was at last year's tour of the plant and the head of quality control for the plant said that each fresh chassis that comes in is assigned a vin in order, but the order that they come out in the end in often not necessarily the order they leave in. In fact, many are pulled for any possible defects, such as paint issues, gaps in panels, or any quality issues which are immediately addressed at the factory. The length of quality control was actually quite impressive!

And in the case of the OP, every hundred cars or so they pull a complete car before paint and use a giant laser based measuring machine to measure hundreds if not a thousand of different points on the car to insure that the machines are still calibrated and within specs.

Oh and if you want any more info about the factory process, CARCRAFT has their march issue out right now which has a 2 page spread on our factory tour! And last tour is this year before they close the plant forever!

[a_d_a_m]

It's actually quite simple guys, I was at last year's tour of the plant and the head of quality control for the plant said yada yada... I was there too on the afternoon tour, but I was too busy watching the cars and couldn't really hear our guy talking. Thanks for the explanation :D

I'll be at the tour this year; I'm working with Serge and helping him on the hotel arrangements.

[SC Cheesehead]

That's kind of what I was thinking. No big deal or anything, it's fine, I was just wondering.

I wonder, though, if anyone else has that big of a difference between their Ford number and their Roy number. :confused:

I think there was a delta of 11 between Brian's numbers and FPG's on my car.

Reasoning has been detailed in the other posts.

Tip of the hat to RLP for taking the initiative to put together a count way back when, and thanks to the MCM guys and Ford Performance for their efforts in creating the certificates and verified counts.

Hey, if you want something really special, PM ImpalaSlayer and see if he'd be willing to machine you one of his sequence plates for installation in your engine bay.

[a_d_a_m]

Hmmm, maybe I will.

[J D]

I was there too on the afternoon tour, but I was too busy watching the cars and couldn't really hear our guy talking. Thanks for the explanation :D

I'll be at the tour this year; I'm working with Serge and helping him on the hotel arrangements.

Oh yeah that's right! And yeah we were all pretty much @__@ spiral eyed like kids with ADD at all the machinery and everything happening. But I managed to pull myself together when he was talking about the vin stuff in that laser measuring area.

Don't know if I can get the time off to go again but the memories from that last trip will last a life time. And check out the march issue of CarCraft, they finally printed the factory article!

[a_d_a_m]

If you're going to drink boilermakers, at least use a decent whiskey...jeez. :shake: Actually was drinking Seagram's 7 with ginger ale, but they ran out so I switched to CC & ginger ale...and just had a loose Rolling Rock or three over the night.

And check out the march issue of CarCraft, they finally printed the factory article! Yeah, I've got it already...

[TFB]

It's actually quite simple guys, I was at last year's tour of the plant and the head of quality control for the plant said that each fresh chassis that comes in is assigned a vin in order, but the order that they come out in the end in often not necessarily the order they leave in. In fact, many are pulled for any possible defects, such as paint issues, gaps in panels, or any quality issues which are immediately addressed at the factory. The length of quality control was actually quite impressive!


I can see that, but the assigned VIN will no doubt be from a order already received from a dealer...

When my uncle still had his dealership, he ordered a '86 Grand Marquis for my mom to beat a price increase on the '87s... He got the order in just under the deadline for ordering a '86, and I remember him saying to my mom(who was questioning whether it would be built), "I have the VIN, they will build it"... And they did...

That chassis stamping process no doubt doesn't exist on uni-body vehicles...

BTW a portion of the VIN is also stamped on the engine, transmission and various places on the body...

[J D]

I can see that, but the assigned VIN will no doubt be from a order already received from a dealer...

When my uncle still had his dealership, he ordered a '86 Grand Marquis for my mom to beat a price increase on the '87s... He got the order in just under the deadline for ordering a '86, and I remember him saying to my mom(who was questioning whether it would be built), "I have the VIN, they will build it"... And they did...

That chassis stamping process no doubt doesn't exist on uni-body vehicles...

BTW a portion of the VIN is also stamped on the engine, transmission and various places on the body...

That's a beautiful memory and absolutely a "So let it be written, so let it be done" [/Yul Brynner's voice] moment.

But I would think uni-bodies have it too, like ours, they start with JUST the floor pans. Frames play no part in the VIN process and don't even come into the picture till WAYY down the assembly line, and it's stunning to see the marriage of the body to the frame.

By the way I believe I may have misspoke, by chassis I meant floorpan like this:http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q193/MLZ500/FloorPans009.jpg
Not a rolling frame.

[TFB]

But I would think uni-bodies have it too, like ours, they start with JUST the floor pans. Frames play no part in the VIN process and don't even come into the picture till WAYY down the assembly line, and it's stunning to see the marriage of the body to the frame.

By the way I believe I may have misspoke, by chassis I meant floorpan like this:.

Never seen a car built but have been through Norfolk F Series assembly(closed '07) twice when the line was running, and a couple more when it wasn't(For a few years prior to 9-11, they hosted a car show on Saturday for the local Ford car clubs, too many people to have in the plant when the line was running)... It was quite a sight to see the cabs and beds set into place, beds were upside down on a angle and they spun them over prior to placing them on the chassis...

Ahhhh another memory...

First time I went through was in '94 before they started the shows, a cousin that was line maintenance supervisor took myself and a HS friend through(personal tour :D)... We started at a stack of floorpans that a worker was setting individually on the assembly line(there was just a few robots in the plant at that time)... This was on 2nd shift about 6:00 in the evening and Lee(cousin) stated "about noon tomorrow that will be a truck"...

Babbling on... AFAIK tours were not officially available at Norfolk until after the retrofit for the '97s, prior would have been a disaster waiting to happen for a large group... There were little electric carts/wagons in the walkways shuttling parts and equipment to various points in the plant(used a embedded siginal wire in the concrete) and seemed to be everywhere... Workers were doing most of the jobs, I member a 3ft stack of broken windshields that were no doubt "woops"... When I went back around '98 it was hard to believe it was the same place, wagons were gone and much of the work was automated... Over at the windshield install, there was a robot placing the sealant around the perimeter of the glass while another set it in place, not a broken windshield in sight... This was my second visit when the line was running, at that time a retired workers group conducted the tours for clubs and other groups...