Cooling Mod

[russell072009]

Can anyone send me a picture of how out cooling system works? i'm looking in to the cooling system mod and would like to know how the system is routed before and after. can anyone help?

[musclemerc]

Here is a link with my "modded cooling mod" info:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=63462

Since your gonna remove the intake you might as well give it a through cleaning

[russell072009]

i read that post. i understand the concept but still dont understand the way our cooling system works. this thing has more crap than any other car ive worked on before. most have 2 hoses to and from the radiator and to and from the heater core. ours had hoses and fittings all over the da*m place.

[russell072009]

why couldnt you block the heater core intake at the crossover tube on the front of the engine, route the passenger head to intake for the core and tie the core out to the drivers side head and run it in to the upper hose? i don't know where the flow out of the heater core goes.

[musclemerc]

Our heater core is routed like this. From the crossover tube on the front of the engine, to the heater core, then the heater core return runs between the lower intake and the block into the back of the WP.

Here is a pic of the heater core return line:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20 924&d=1276027096 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20 924&d=1276027096)

[russell072009]

im really starting to think the engineers were either drunk or on vacation when they pushed this cars design through. could you plumb the ps side to the intake of the heater core and tie the output of the ds side to the core output and push it through that tube back to the water pump? just trying to see of i can cut down on the number of hoses.

[massacre]

why couldnt you block the heater core intake at the crossover tube on the front of the engine, route the passenger head to intake for the core and tie the core out to the drivers side head and run it in to the upper hose? i don't know where the flow out of the heater core goes.

Punctuation is your friend, but this ^^^^ is how most of the 4Vs & 2Vs work.
coolant leaves the rear of the pass head, to the HC and the the return from the HC goes under the intake to the back of the water pump.

After reviewing the MM engine cooling system, I always wondered why they did it that way. Personally I think it's because of the A/C box on the firewall, and the wideness of the 4V. The heater core supply for the 2V actually comes out of the top of the pass head, where the 4V HC supply comes out the rear of the pass head. Kinda tougher to plumb that with that A/C box in the way.
Here's how I solved that:
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/6391/getattachmentaspxh.jpg (http://img847.imageshack.us/i/getattachmentaspxh.jpg/)

It's not for everyone, and it took a lot of work. but the 4V is wide, and so is that A/C box. Panthers are unique in the modular community for having their HVAC boxes mounted on the firewall. All or most of the chassis that the 4.6 modular motors came in (outside of the Econoline vans and some others) have the HVAC box mounted inside the cabin, which leaves a lot more room in that area...
This will fit a 5.4 DOHC BTW, already took the measurements...lol.

Either way, the MM cooling system is not that different from the familiar one, only that it exits the crossover instead of the rear of the cylinder head.
Returns to the back of the water pump either way.

[Lignum]

What is the advantage to modding the cooling system?

[DTUB]

I'm teeing the p/s and d/s to the heater core then to the back of the water pump. Made a custom coolant pipe and deleted the original location. Seems to work good so far.

[musclemerc]

Interesting approach DTUB. Are you using the Evenflow connectors? Or did you make something custom to connect to the back of the cylinder heads? Either way I know it's top notch to go on your MM.

BTW love the sig... Thanks for the shout out...

[DTUB]

Interesting approach DTUB. Are you using the Evenflow connectors? Or did you make something custom to connect to the back of the cylinder heads? Either way I know it's top notch to go on your MM.

BTW love the sig... Thanks for the shout out...
I'm using the original evenflow parts that fit in the heads and fabed the rest. Driverside elbow is .375 id and ps has a .375 restictor welded in to help even the flow between the too heads.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Can anyone send me a picture of how out cooling system works? i'm looking in to the cooling system mod and would like to know how the system is routed before and after. can anyone help?


My kit will replace the discontinued even flow kit, it will not have the adapter that requires you to cut the upper radiator hose. I include the nipple and bung to be welded into the cross over pipe, and I do not use screw clamps I use crimp clamps all included.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/6/mm-8.JPG

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1293055614-IMG_0080.jpg

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1293055566-IMG_0079.jpg

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1293671972-IMG_0100.jpg

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1292702586-hakier.jpg

[Marauderjack]

What is the advantage to modding the cooling system?

Some think it is necessary for cooling #7 & #8 cylinders better but there are a bunch of us with tons of miles that don't have a cooling mod and we are just fine!!:beer:

It's a "feel good" modification that may help if you run on the edge with boost and a lot of spark advance!!:cool: It won't hurt a thing if done right!!:rolleyes:

[Dennis Reinhart]

Some think it is necessary for cooling #7 & #8 cylinders better but there are a bunch of us with tons of miles that don't have a cooling mod and we are just fine!!:beer:

It's a "feel good" modification that may help if you run on the edge with boost and a lot of spark advance!!:cool: It won't hurt a thing if done right!!:rolleyes:

It is a great and easy modification, it is a proven fact the cyliders 7&8 run 50 degrees hotter, 90% of engine failure will be these pistons, and this is one of the reasons why.

[Marauderjack]

It is a great and easy modification, it is a proven fact the cyliders 7&8 run 50 degrees hotter, 90% of engine failure will be these pistons, and this is one of the reasons why.

50 degrees hotter at what benchmark temp??:confused:

[musclemerc]

Dennis your kit uses 1/2" hose :shake:

Do you think there a better way to run the 1/2" hose to the rear of the engine other than crossing heat sensitive devices? :confused:

[Dennis Reinhart]

50 degrees hotter at what benchmark temp??:confused:


Your confused, what is a benchmark:confused::confused:: confused:

But just for you Jack don't be confused be happy.

Part 1

Why the cooling system mod is imporant

First you need to know how the cooling system in the car works.

The water pump sucks water through the radiator. This water then goes through the water pump and is pushed into the engine block in the holes behind the water pump. Once the coolant is in the engine block it then passes through the restrictions in the head gaskets and into the cylinder heads. Ultimately the coolant wants to go back to the water cross over at the front of the intake manifold (or that large tube assembly on a 4V), through the thermostat and back into the radiator to get cooled and start all over.

There are however a few other things to note. Water wants to take the path of least resistance. Meaning, water doesn’t flow up hill, it wants to take the shortest path it can to where it wants to go (it’s one of the laws of physics things). So, if the water goes into the block at the front, and ultimately wants to end up about 8” above where it entered the block at (where the water cross over is), how do you get the water to the back of the motor?

Well first off there are holes in the head gasket that restrict how much water can go through the head gasket and into the cylinder head. In most cases these restriction holes are smaller at the front of the motor and get larger as you go toward the back of the motor. In theory this makes the “path resistance” close to being equal from the front of the head to the rear of the head.

Now, on a Mustang engine, on the passenger side cylinder head (if it’s a 4V) or in the back corner of the intake (if it’s a 2V), there is a hose that goes to the heater core. This hose brings hot coolant into the heater core. The tube that runs under the intake manifold brings the coolant out of the heater core and back to the water pump. From the water pump this coolant gets circulated back into the engine, meaning it does NOT get cooled via the radiator. This is what allows you to have heat from the heater core, slowing rising in temp, before the thermostat opens. This coolant is always circulating from the pump, to the passenger side block, to the passenger head, to the heater core, back to the pump and repeats. It’s always circulating.

Now, let’s step back and think about the cooling system and how it was designed. In theory all cylinders generate the same amount of heat, and this is a pretty good assumption based on what we are talking about here. So, you’d like the same heat rejection capability at all cylinders. By this I mean you’d like the same volume and flow rate of coolant around the combustion chambers, and you’d like the same coolant temperature around all the cylinders. Heat rejection is controlled by the temperature difference between two “bodies”, the surface area (basically the area inside the head around the chamber where is) and the same flow rate of coolant. If all these are the same then the heat rejection is the same at all cylinders. If the heat generation is the same at all the cylinders, and the heat rejection is the same at all the cylinders, we can basically say the combustion chamber temperature is the same at all the cylinders, and if that’s the case all the cylinders have the same timing requirements. Taking one step farther back from here to help explain this, there are basically four main things that control knock, or detonation, in an engine; Combustion chamber design, cylinder pressure, fuel octane and mixture temperature (there are others, but this is not a class in Internal Combustion Engine Theory, that’s down the hall). The first three are pretty much the same in any given engine at any given time. Meaning, from cylinder to cylinder how much of a difference is there in chamber design, none, how about fuel octane, none, how about cylinder pressure (we are going to say none for right now) but what about temperature?

Ok, before I get too far along this path, and we will come back to this, let’s go back to the cooling system. If coolant wants to take the path of least resistance the passenger side of the motor has coolant flow like this; From the water pump into the block, from the block into the cylinder head, some coolant at the front of the motor goes right to the water cross over, and the coolant at the back of the motor goes through the heater core. There is a flow path out of the front and back of the cylinder head. This is good. What about the drivers side cylinder head?

It goes in at the same place but on the driver’s side. But there is no flow path at the back of the cylinder head to promote coolant flow to the back cylinders. The only way coolant gets to the back of the drivers head is from staggering the size of holes in the head gasket. Now what happens even if this works? Remember a few paragraphs up talking about heat rejection and one of the main factors is the temperature difference between what you trying to cool (the cylinder head) and the coolant that is doing the cooling? Well, if you do get good circulation via this hole staggering all that hot coolant from the back of the cylinder head, has to travel through the head back to the water crossover up front. But this coolant is already hot. It can’t absorb very much heat if it’s already absorbed heat from the rear cylinders. Assuming that the coolant that went through the head gasket openings at the front of the head did its job, most likely this coolant is going to heat these combustion chambers up, rather than cool them down, since they were already cooled off once.

At this point you can see the need for a way to open up the back side of the drivers cylinder head for a coolant flow path, to allow coolant to flow out. This accomplishes two things; one is to open up a flow path to allow more coolant to the back of the drivers side cylinder head, and two, prevents any hot coolant from going back across the front cylinders on the drivers side, possibly putting heat back into the combustion chambers.

This is what the cooling system mod is all about. Adding in a flow path out of the back of the driver’s side cylinder head.

The next obvious question is what vehicles should have this done and why.

As a purist I think every engine should have this modification. It allows you to run more timing and/or leaner A/F ratio with cooler combustion chamber temperatures. In reality it’s not necessary on a naturally aspirated vehicle, unless you want to run pretty high compression ratio. Even though you could argue that this isn’t true, I’m going to at least put it out there; You have to assume that Ford designed the cooling system correctly for a stock vehicle. I think in most cases this is true. But, when you start making a lot more power, like a supercharger, nitrous, things like that, you are making more heat. The engine was NOT designed to handle this kind of heat rejection. How many power adder guys here have either melted a spark plug on the drivers’ side, or blew a ring land on a drivers’ side piston? I bet most of these failure are cylinders 7 & 8 as well. More power is more heat in the combustion chamber. (As a Band-Aid, our software can retard spark on individual cylinders to help some of this, but this is just masking the bigger problem).

[Dennis Reinhart]

Here are some things to think about for the tuners and the engine builders on this board. Knock, or detonation can be broken up into many different types, but I only want to split them into two for now. One is when there are all the cylinders knocking. This is a very loud, very clattery sound of detonation. For you older racers, this was what GM vehicles sounded like the late 70’s early 80’s. Then there is knock when you only hear a few knocks every now and then, or only one cylinder knocking, and it’s no where near as loud as the continuous knock. This is the sign only one or two cylinders are knocking. In this situation, probably 9 out of 10 times the cylinder is on the driver’s side. But, you can’t let the engine go out the door like this, so you have to take timing out. This change/modification will solve this knocking problem. In fact, it will solve it enough that you can most likely run more timing in the engine than you were before, which is be more power.

I want to add a few more comments; I know this is a lot of information to absorb. The current way people are doing this mod is to direct the coolant that is coming out the drivers’ side head, into the tube under the intake. This is done via some Y fitting. As a purist this is going back into the engine without being cooled. While this is still much, much better than the factory setup, I’d like to see this directed back to the water crossover for circulation into the radiator. I also realize this is not totally feasible in all cases.

Mercury Marauders get their coolant for the heater core from the water crossover. This means they have this problem on both cylinder heads, not just one.

The heat generation will vary some from cylinder to cylinder. The air flow and injector flow is not perfect in these engines. Some cylinders get more airflow and those will be more sensitive to knock.

This is the same concept that NASCAR vehicles use for their cooling systems.

Both 2V’s and 4V’s will benefit from this problem. 4V’s have more problems getting coolant around the two exhaust values and cooling them, so they benefit more. But, any 400+ RWHP 2V can and will benefit from this.

I hope this helps.

[musclemerc]

Smart thinking putting a restrictor on the PS and allow the heads to equlaize. You have a one of a kind setup. Did you datalog engine temps before and after?


I'm using the original evenflow parts that fit in the heads and fabed the rest. Driverside elbow is .375 id and ps has a .375 restictor welded in to help even the flow between the too heads.

[babbage]

Nice write up Dennis - thanks for explaining it. So your kit Dennis will come with a whole new metal crossover coolant tube with the nipple already on it? I assume you'll want my old crossover back as well. How hard is it to remove the crossover tube from the engine - just some O-Rings holding it in? Do you have pricing for your kit?

p.s. I've seen a couple of N/A MM's on this site with head damage that was probably due to the lack of cooling at the drivers side firewall.

[fastblackmerc]

Good write-up Dennis.

Is there any way to retrofit parts of this with your original MM cooling mod?

[Dennis Reinhart]

Nice write up Dennis - thanks for explaining it. So your kit Dennis will come with a whole new metal crossover coolant tube with the nipple already on it? I assume you'll want my old crossover back as well. How hard is it to remove the crossover tube from the engine - just some O-Rings holding it in? Do you have pricing for your kit?

p.s. I've seen a couple of N/A MM's on this site with head damage that was probably due to the lack of cooling at the drivers side firewall.


No I supply a 3/8 NPT bung and the fitting that you can have welded on your cross over pipe, and includes the crimps and every thing else I am having the parts made now Don has quit selling the kit he called me so I am going to continue with this. I will have pricing next week.

[massacre]

+65,000 about the cooling mod.

Every 4V modular motor that I have torn down, the driver's side head was a lot darker in color than the passenger side head, indicating to me that the driver's side head runs hotter than the passenger side head.
It's just my preference to run it, a lot of people think that it doesn't do squat.
To each his own....

Edit:

I'm pretty sure that write-up that was posted was actually written years ago by Jerry Wroblowski (of "J-mod" fame).
Can anyone confirm? I am 99% sure on this.

Either way, it is good info on these motors and how the cooling system works.

[Dragcity]

I have this, and I like it... We were actually successfull in Silver Soldering an iron fitting into the crossover. Just an option if you have a tough time finding a good welder.

[RacerX]

I know this is for a Mach1 (x-over tube difference), but, gives you an idea of flow patterns.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt241/Geoffs33/coolingsystem.jpg

[russell072009]

Dennis, if you are going to be selling a kit to do this, did you plan on selling the adapters separate for those of us that have their own ideas on how to run it?

[Dennis Reinhart]

Dennis, if you are going to be selling a kit to do this, did you plan on selling the adapters separate for those of us that have their own ideas on how to run it?


I will not be selling parts, I will be selling complete kits. .

[MERCMAN]

this thread has gotten WAY off track, if you have nothing to add to the OP's question, keep your fingers off the keyboard!

[Lignum]

this thread has gotten WAY off track, if you have nothing to add to the OP's question, keep your fingers off the keyboard!

I don't understand.

[russell072009]

I don't understand.

some posts were removed.

[Chevyguy]

+65,000 about the cooling mod.

Every 4V modular motor that I have torn down, the driver's side head was a lot darker in color than the passenger side head, indicating to me that the driver's side head runs hotter than the passenger side head.
It's just my preference to run it, a lot of people think that it doesn't do squat.
To each his own....

Edit:

I'm pretty sure that write-up that was posted was actually written years ago by Jerry Wroblowski (of "J-mod" fame).
Can anyone confirm? I am 99% sure on this.

Either way, it is good info on these motors and how the cooling system works.

According to this the rear cooling mod is more specific to the 03-04 head design. Any V8 can benefit from rear cooling crossover but in most cases this is a high performance option


FORD KNOWLEDGEBASE OASIS 4.6 DOHC:
TSB'S MISC

Known Problems:

1.Coolant Flow (cylinder head) - 2003-2004 DOHC heads have a flawed casting and coolant flow design on the first revision of the head that causes coolant to dead end in the back of the driver side head and causes the 7 & 8 cylinders to run hotter than the others. This results in a ticking sound that occurs when the valve guides and/or seats warp due to running too hot and the ticking itself is the sound of the valves not seating correctly and tapping because of it. The problem is more prominent on the Cobra and Mach 1 due to their high performance nature and tendency to be driven hard.

This problem was also found on the 1999-2001 4.6L DOHC Mustang Cobras.

2.Dieseling Noise - Many times a dieseling noise is found to be from a loose timing gear retaining bolt. Easy fix just remove the cam cover and retighten the bolts to in/lb specs. Make sure the bolt is coated with a mild amount of teflon, but not threadlocker.

3.Oil Filter Suggestion - It is recommended that you use Motorcraft oil filters. They have a drain back valve that keeps oil from draining back to the pan when the engine is off. Most aftermarket filters do not. This prevents knocking on start up and eventual damage from it.

4.Oil Suggestion - Use only 5w20 weight oil if that's what it call's for. The tolerances are very tight in the valvetrain and any heavier of an oil can eventually cause valvetrain problems because the hydraulic components stay pumped up and never bleed down like they should when the engine is running

5.Timing Chain Tensioner - Ford Motor Company has told its dealers that 2000 through 2003 model year Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis vehicles may exhibit a grinding noise from the engine timing chain area. This noise, according to Ford, may be caused by excessive wear of the timing chain tensioner arms. The tensioner arm has an aluminum base with a nylon surface. The condition can also be detected by fine nylon and or aluminum particles present in the engine oil.

Bad timing chain tensioners have been reported on other 4.6L vehicles as well.

________________

[Dennis Reinhart]

According to this the rear cooling mod is more specific to the 03-04 head design. Any V8 can benefit from rear cooling crossover but in most cases this is a high performance option


Yes he did this for me years ago, and the original post is in my forum with his name, I will be getting the fitings from the C&C shop this week the kits will be ready next week.

[massacre]

According to this the rear cooling mod is more specific to the 03-04 head design.

Well it may be true according to that article, but EVERY one I have seen was darker on the driver's side. MarkVIIIs, Cobras, Continentals, etc.
I just think they didn't really figure out the solution until '03-04.

Next time you see a 4V (like at the junkyard or something) pull off both cam covers and I bet it'll be darker on the driver's side.

[babbage]

According to this the rear cooling mod is more specific to the 03-04 head design. Any V8 can benefit from rear cooling crossover but in most cases this is a high performance option


Thanks for posting this Chevyguy. I wonder if I have this issue, or if my guides are warped.

Are you going to do the rear head cooling mod on your MM ?

[Dennis Reinhart]

The DOHC engine has no watter flow out of the back of the drivers cylinder head some 2V are the same it is a good mod in many applications.

[RacerX]

"flawed casting and coolant flow design on the first revision of the head"

So in my endless search for truth, would the later revision heads (9 thread sprak plug hole) be ok with the cooling flow? I've done a lot of research and never found a definite answer.

[massacre]

"flawed casting and coolant flow design on the first revision of the head"

So in my endless search for truth, would the later revision heads (9 thread sprak plug hole) be ok with the cooling flow? I've done a lot of research and never found a definite answer.

+65,000 on this, I have read it from numerous sources but haven't found anything concrete either.