GM "massages" Dec sales figures?

[RCSignals]

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6702

[woaface]

Didn't really read the article, but knowing someone who's sold cars for 4 years now, December is supposedly a very hot month. Dealers aretryin to get the last of the 03's out and get the 04's in, and customers are tryin to get the deals.

Hey Dealer, what do you think?

[UAW 588]

GM is faking sales because the new F-150 is kicking their butt for the 20th year in row now!!!!!!! Lets not for get the Explorer, Focus, Ranger, Winstar (now Freestar), and the Mustang that no longer has any compitition now the Camaro and Firebird are gone. I know the GTO is out but how many have you seen on the road. Besides it's a Aussie transplant I've been told. Guess Ford is gunna have to bring up their Aussie, the Falcon. Just my 2 cents.

[rumble]

Mr. Flint shows that he has little knowledge of the Auto Business. December is traditionally a hot month for car sales. Many manufactures do put extra incentives on to boost year end figures but since all sales are punched into various data bases it would be very hard to fudge actual numbers. One of the biggest things you see is large "fleet" purchases to get the numbers up but even these can be pulled to see what the actual retail sales are.

[Smokie]

I'm not sure who considers sales figures important, I don't.
I have a job were I go to peoples homes, 10 to 12 customers per day...for 32 years. Here is what makes me sick: Too many Americans do not buy cars from American companies. Please don't waste my time whining about the Ford, Chevy or Dodge that you bought 20 years ago and it broke and you became angry and decided to teach American cars companies a lesson by not buying American ever again....the only thing you accomplished is making your country weaker and a foreign country stronger.:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

[RCSignals]

Please don't waste my time whining about the Ford, Chevy or Dodge that you bought 20 years ago and it broke and you became angry and decided to teach American cars companies a lesson by not buying American ever again....the only thing you accomplished is making your country weaker and a foreign country stronger.

true. you want to read some "whingers" go read in the "Dear Bill "section of BON.
It's amasing what problems people will tolerate in cars from Toyota, Honda etc, but won't tolerate from Ford (GM or Chrysler)

[MapleLeafMerc]

RC, with all due respect, I would just say that there isn't any way to check the claims of Mr. Flint, since there are no footnotes.

"It wasn't a Federal crime then, and as far as I know, it still isn't. It still happens. The most notorious case was back in 1998. Ford's Lincoln actually outsold Cadillac for the year, but Cadillac didn't want to admit it. So they faked the December figures to put Cadillac ahead of Lincoln. Later that spring someone got caught and Cadillac admitted it. But by then it was too late for Lincoln. Its one and only moment in the sun had been stolen."

Does anyone here know this story, such as who got caught? If someone is faking sales figures, let's find out who they are.

[RCSignals]

December isn't necessary a "hot" month for car sales. It is certainly a "big push" month, which does encourage people to buy cars. Mr Flint however does make some good points for reasons why December shouldn't be a good car sales month (and thus the reason it is a big push month)

Personally I don't care about monthly sales figures either, (especially "projected" "chrystal ball" figures) the Car companies do though, it's their little game

[UAW 588]

Originally posted by Smokie
you became angry and decided to teach American cars companies a lesson by not buying American ever again....the only thing you accomplished is making your country weaker and a foreign country stronger.:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:



Thank you and God Bless!!!!!!!!!

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by MapleLeafMerc
RC, with all due respect,

Well you don't owe me any due respect over this, I didn't write the article.

I noticed the same as you. You'd think Mr Flint, having been an automotive writer for so long, would have done that, since he uses it specifically as a point of fact.

[gobbletwo]

Originally posted by rumble
Mr. Flint shows that he has little knowledge of the Auto Business. December is traditionally a hot month for car sales. Many manufactures do put extra incentives on to boost year end figures but since all sales are punched into various data bases it would be very hard to fudge actual numbers. One of the biggest things you see is large "fleet" purchases to get the numbers up but even these can be pulled to see what the actual retail sales are.

HUH:D

[Michael_S]

Buy American?

The Chevy Astro is built in Maryland but the Avalanche is built in Mexico. The Colorado is made in Louisiana but the Aveo is made in South Korea. The Blazer is made in New Jersey but the Impala is built in Canada.

The Ford Econoline is built in Ohio but the Crown Victoria is built in Canada. The Explorer is built in Missouri and Kentucky but the Focus is built in Michigan and Mexico. The Mustang is built in Michigan but the Windstar and Freestar are built in Ontario. For God's sake, the damn MERCURY MARAUDER is built in Canada.

Chrysler builds at least the PT Cruiser and the Neon in Mexico. I'm not sure what else.

The Nissan Altima is built in Tennessee.

The Honda Accord is built in Ohio.

The Toyota Camry is built in Kentucky.

The Isuzu Axiom is built in Indiana.

The Subaru Legacy is built in Indiana.

If you want to support the American Corporate Executive$ $alary, buy from Ford, GM, and Chrysler. If you want to support the American workers, the guys that don't made $10,000,000 a year in an air conditioned office with a secretary, do some research on the model you buy. The wonderful Mercury Marauder isn't even made in the US.

I support the United Auto Workers, but it does them no good if you buy the cars their employers make in another country.

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by Michael_S
Buy American?

The For God's sake, the damn MERCURY MARAUDER is built in Canada.



Which is exactally why I bought it, and why 3 of my last 4 vehicles have been assembled in Canada. 5 Star safety, built in Canada. Everybody wins.

[Michael_S]

I have nothing against Canadian or Mexican workers, don't get me wrong. I have nothing against Japanese, German, English, French, or Indian workers for that matter.

But obviously I can see the advantage to using as much business as possible from your home country.



you became angry and decided to teach American cars companies a lesson by not buying American ever again....the only thing you accomplished is making your country weaker and a foreign country stronger.

Let me say again, I have nothing against the American workers and I understand their need to be employed. But the fact of the matter is, businesses don't automatically deserve our patronage, they've got to earn it. Capitalism and the free market is about competition. If someone else gives me an equivalent or superior product for a similar price, I would be a fool not to take it.

[Smokie]

Let me say again, I have nothing against the American workers and I understand their need to be employed. But the fact of the matter is, businesses don't automatically deserve our patronage, they've got to earn it. Capitalism and the free market is about competition. If someone else gives me an equivalent or superior product for a similar price, I would be a fool not to take it.

Michael, you are absolutely right it is smarter to buy a product from the company that you believe gives you a better product for less money, no other considerations should matter...sometimes I choose to be not as smart and do bussines with a company that is rooted in the U.S. instead of Japan or Germany because I resent the flow of Americans dollars headed toward those countries instead of being invested here. So some of my buying decisions may not be wise....but I feel good about them.:)

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by Michael_S

But obviously I can see the advantage to using as much business as possible from your home country.


I whole heartedly agree!


Originally posted by Michael_S

But the fact of the matter is, businesses don't automatically deserve our patronage, they've got to earn it.


True. When I found my Marauder, I was searching for a RWD V-8. Only Ford had one, in the Panther. If I had know about the paint issues, and the crappy service I would get from my dealership, I would have thought twice and perhaps bought a truck instead.

But I love my Marauder. Like someone pointed out in another thread, you'd think after 100 years that Ford could get the colour 'Black' right. :)


Originally posted by Michael_S

If someone else gives me an equivalent or superior product for a similar price, I would be a fool not to take it.

I have my limits too. I will often buy a better quailty product for more money given the choice. If I had found a better car for less money (which I doubt I could have), I still would have bought this because of the 'Made in Canada' sticker. Or just about anything with a "Made in (anywhere but Asia)" sticker. :)

I chalk this import/ricer/ 'Super tuner' trend up to short attention spans. Wasn't it less than a generation ago that we were at war in SE Asia?

[Nathan]

I think something important to remember is that even though the final assembly point is in Cananda for the Marauder (by UAW workers mind you), there are a large number of US-made components that are shipped to Canada for that assembly.

I can't speak personally for the percentage of US-parts in a ((insert Korean car maker name here)) made in ((insert southern state name here)), but I would guess that those assembly plants are just putting together foreign parts like a "snap model" :)

[SHERIFF]

Another way to look at this....... while a lot of foreign cars are indeed sold in this country every year....................... look at the amount of Americans these "sales" actually employ. Ban the sale of imports in the USA and you suddenly have all these salesmen and mechanics unemployed. :D

[RCSignals]

Michael_S

what you are missing, is that Ford has been building cars and trucks in Canada since 1904! There is a much closer relationship between the auto industry, and it's workers, in Canada and the US than maybe you realise.

Foreign manufacturers may have assembly plants in the US, but the profits (profit being all moneys after expenses) leave the country, and I don't know of a single foreign auto assembly plant in the US that falls under the UAW. Perhaps there is one?

[SHERIFF]

Originally posted by RCSignals

Foreign manufacturers may have assembly plants in the US, but the profits (profit being all moneys after expenses) leave the country


Which raises another good point..... the sales profits, parts profits and repair profits don't leave the USA. :)

[gobbletwo]

Originally posted by SHERIFF
Which raises another good point..... the sales profits, parts profits and repair profits don't leave the USA. :)

I must provide Sheriff with a subscription to the "Economist".:)

[cruzer]

What percentage of the workers at the Marauder plant are American citizens paying taxes in the USA ????

[RCSignals]

Cruzer, there may well be US citizens working at STAP, but I'd suspect they are likely management or engineers, not assembly line workers. I doubt they commute as well, so any income tax they pay would fall under agreements between Canada and the US. I think that means they either pay to both, or choose one or the other.