Why is Gasoline average $3.85

[sailsmen]

Energy in America: EPA Rules Force Shell to Abandon Oil Drilling Plans
By Dan Springer

Published April 25, 2011 | FoxNews.com


Shell Oil Company has announced it must scrap efforts to drill for oil this summer in the Arctic Ocean off the northern coast of Alaska. The decision comes following a ruling by the EPA’s Environmental Appeals Board to withhold critical air permits. The move has angered some in Congress and triggered a flurry of legislation aimed at stripping the EPA of its oil drilling oversight.

Shell has spent five years and nearly $4 billion dollars on plans to explore for oil in the Beaufort and Chukchi Seas. The leases alone cost $2.2 billion. Shell Vice President Pete Slaiby says obtaining similar air permits for a drilling operation in the Gulf of Mexico would take about 45 days. He’s especially frustrated over the appeal board’s suggestion that the Arctic drill would somehow be hazardous for the people who live in the area. “We think the issues were really not major,” Slaiby said, “and clearly not impactful for the communities we work in.”

The closest village to where Shell proposed to drill is Kaktovik, Alaska. It is one of the most remote places in the United States. According to the latest census, the population is 245 and nearly all of the residents are Alaska natives. The village, which is 1 square mile, sits right along the shores of the Beaufort Sea, 70 miles away from the proposed off-shore drill site.

The EPA’s appeals board ruled that Shell had not taken into consideration emissions from an ice-breaking vessel when calculating overall greenhouse gas emissions from the project. Environmental groups were thrilled by the ruling.

“What the modeling showed was in communities like Kaktovik, Shell’s drilling would increase air pollution levels close to air quality standards,” said Eric Grafe, Earthjustice’s lead attorney on the case. Earthjustice was joined by Center for Biological Diversity and the Alaska Wilderness League in challenging the air permits.

At stake is an estimated 27 billion barrels of oil. That’s how much the U. S. Geological Survey believes is in the U.S. portion of the Arctic Ocean. For perspective, that represents two and a half times more oil than has flowed down the Trans Alaska pipeline throughout its 30-year history. That pipeline is getting dangerously low on oil. At 660,000 barrels a day, it’s carrying only one-third its capacity.

Production on the North Slope of Alaska is declining at a rate of about 7 percent a year. If the volume gets much lower, pipeline officials say they will have to shut it down. Alaska officials are blasting the Environmental Protection Agency.

“It’s driving investment and production overseas,” said Alaska’s DNR Commissioner Dan Sullivan. “That doesn’t help the United States in any way, shape or form.”

The EPA did not return repeated calls and e-mails. The Environmental Appeals Board has four members: Edward Reich, Charles Sheehan, Kathie Stein and Anna Wolgast. All are registered Democrats and Kathie Stein was an activist attorney for the Environmental Defense Fund. Members are appointed by the EPA administrator. Alaska’s Republican senator thinks it’s time to make some changes.

“EPA has demonstrated that they’re not competent to handle the process,” said Sen. Lisa Murkowski. “So if they’re not competent to handle it, they need to get out of the way.”

Murkowski supported budget amendments that would have stripped the EPA of its oversight role in Arctic offshore drilling. The Interior Department issues air permits to oil companies working in the Gulf of Mexico.

[sailsmen]

Do you really believe Pres Obama's policies have nothing to do with the price of Gas?:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:: lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[rayjay]

$3.85 would be great, try on $4.03 and climbing everyday for size. B HO wants us to buy electric cars that DO NOT work in cold climates. The local university has a number of them and they are stored from Nov to Apr every year.

If we re elect him we get what we deserve...

FWIW, I am considering selling my DTR and our LS8 and going to a more fuel efficent small SUV. Really don't want to, but when 93 hits $5.50 this summer they won't be being driven.

[kernie]

Trade ya, i paid $1.51 a litre yesterday for 91, that's about $5.60 a gallon, $5.85 in US dollars.

:(

[MM2004]

$3.85 would be great, try on $4.03 and climbing everyday for size. B HO wants us to buy electric cars that DO NOT work in cold climates. The local university has a number of them and they are stored from Nov to Apr every year.

If we re elect him we get what we deserve...

Amen to that my brother!

Gas jumped in Louisville, KY last night/this morning to $4.01 for 87 octane.

Why? Who knows?? :mad:

I am sure it's higher elsewhere, and the way prices per gallon jump from station to station,.. something stinks to high heaven.

Charlotte lives just 12 miles from me, and she filled up this morning for $3.78.

Mike.

[CBT]

Oil speculators, that what drives it up, it shouldn't even be allowed to be traded on the open market, it's too vital to let people make money off of it, like blood or body parts. That's my short version.

[1 Bad Merc]

I have no problem with them drilling in Alaska -have the problem with them selling our OIL on the open market.

I would like to keep American resources for Americans but I know that is just a pipe dream :)

[PonyUP]

A couple more problems add to it, there is talk and wide spread bipartisan support to cease Oil Subsidies which will make it even less attractive to drill here.

What's real crazy is that oil prices are going up, but the demand isn't. In fact Saudis are reducing the oil output everyday.

So as Mike said, Why are prices going up?

Because we'll ***** about it, but in the end, we will pay it and its all geared towards getting alternative energy, which would be fine, except that alternative energy and electric cars don't work

[MrBluGruv]

Inflation and the devaluation of our dollar certainly aren't helping either...

[1 Bad Merc]

For some reason "Deflation" is a horrible word in our economy-vicious circle.

[magindat]

I love it when Billy posts and we get the 'real' scoop....

[CBT]

True, the EPA is one of the 3 things we would have to get rid of to compete globally.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

FWIW, I am considering selling my DTR and our LS8 and going to a more fuel efficent small SUV.

Let me know, I always wanted an LS8 ;)

[Mr. Man]

A couple more problems add to it, there is talk and wide spread bipartisan support to cease Oil Subsidies which will make it even less attractive to drill here.

What's real crazy is that oil prices are going up, but the demand isn't. In fact Saudis are reducing the oil output everyday.

So as Mike said, Why are prices going up?

Because we'll ***** about it, but in the end, we will pay it and its all geared towards getting alternative energy, which would be fine, except that alternative energy and electric cars don't work

Besides the Wall Street turd balls that are manipulating the price in the short run I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head. While we all moan and groan the press focuses its attention on all the moaning and groaning so in the mean time the govt is free to go about their secret agenda. Remember the last time the govt didn't feed the press stories? Some journalist decided to do their job and we found out the President was having cigar orgies in the White House. Makes you wonder what this President is doing behind closed doors:eek:

[sailsmen]

Inflation and the devaluation of our dollar certainly aren't helping either...

You get the STAR for the day. Oil is traded exclusively in $$$. $$$ goes down in effect oil goes up. Also Lybia's 2% supply shows that the pirce of oil goes up ~$30 to equal the loss of 2% supply and the devaluation of the $$$.

[sailsmen]

Our energy policy is buy from people who use the money to kill us vs using our own resources which generates TAXES to the Treasury and JOBS in the USA.
This has been our energy policy thru several Presidents.

Oil pays ~16% royalty to the USA Treasury in addition to the Lease Sales. Natural Gas is the only Green Fuel that pays into the Treasury.

We are dumb we are dumb we are dumb we are dumb, flah lah lah flah lah lah We are dumb we are dumb.

[slickster]

I just paid $23 for 20gal. Grocery store/ shell card. Filled up the contour and just over half tank for the merc

[PonyUP]

Besides the Wall Street turd balls that are manipulating the price in the short run I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head. While we all moan and groan the press focuses its attention on all the moaning and groaning so in the mean time the govt is free to go about their secret agenda. Remember the last time the govt didn't feed the press stories? Some journalist decided to do their job and we found out the President was having cigar orgies in the White House. Makes you wonder what this President is doing behind closed doors:eek:

:lol: Well I think we know what the Presidents do behind closed doors. I mean if you had the title "Most Powerful Man in the Free World" You'd be chasing the nani too. Where I get disappointed with Clinton was the quality of the nani he was chasing, I mean have some standards.

But you're right, a slow news day tends to uncover the biggest stories, the beast must be fed in the era of 24 hour news and internet reporting and blogging

[Mr. Man]

:lol: Well I think we know what the Presidents do behind closed doors. I mean if you had the title "Most Powerful Man in the Free World" You'd be chasing the nani too. Where I get disappointed with Clinton was the quality of the nani he was chasing, I mean have some standards.

But you're right, a slow news day tends to uncover the biggest stories, the beast must be fed in the era of 24 hour news and internet reporting and blogging
She must not have been all bad. Remember the dress?:D

[TAKEDOWN]

... and why is Chicago the most expensive in the country?

[SC Cheesehead]

She must not have been all bad. Remember the dress?:D



http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/wp-content/gallery/clintons/lewinsky.jpg&sa=X&ei=yh63TbTrEZCGhQfiudWIDw&ved=0CAQQ8wc4DA&usg=AFQjCNF_37jVTa0IjF7BqyGhK2 PLmSIJwg

[Krytin]

Oil speculators, that what drives it up, it shouldn't even be allowed to be traded on the open market, it's too vital to let people make money off of it, like blood or body parts. That's my short version.

DING DING DING we have a winner!

With oil refinereies running at 80% NOT because they don't have raw product to process but because there is no DEMAND for it, the original post is the biggest piece of bull that ever came of the wire.

Wall street and the oil companies are screwing the entire world and with the largest profits reported - key word PROFITS which is money made AFTER the cost of doing business and those "terible" and "restrictive" taxes and regulations how can anyone say these companies are losing money?!

People need to turn of the Fox News for a little while every day.
Start slow. Only watch 23 hrs a day instead of 24/7.
Even crack heads have to put the pipe down when it gets too hot!

[Mr. Man]

DING DING DING we have a winner!

With oil refineries running at 80% NOT because they don't have raw product to process but because there is no DEMAND for it, the original post is the biggest piece of bull that ever came of the wire.

Wall street and the oil companies are screwing the entire world and with the largest profits reported - key word PROFITS which is money made AFTER the cost of doing business and those "terrible" and "restrictive" taxes and regulations how can anyone say these companies are losing money?!

People need to turn of the Fox News for a little while every day.
Start slow. Only watch 23 hrs a day instead of 24/7.
Even crack heads have to put the pipe down when it gets too hot!
You must live in one of the "good" neighborhoods

[Fosters]

With oil refinereies running at 80% NOT because they don't have raw product to process but because there is no DEMAND for it

:lol: :shake:

I guess low demand brings high prices in libtard land... I know you're all supply and demand challenged, but good lord... :lol:

[sailsmen]

DING DING DING we have a winner!

With oil refinereies running at 80% NOT because they don't have raw product to process but because there is no DEMAND for it, the original post is the biggest piece of bull that ever came of the wire.

Wall street and the oil companies are screwing the entire world and with the largest profits reported - key word PROFITS which is money made AFTER the cost of doing business and those "terible" and "restrictive" taxes and regulations how can anyone say these companies are losing money?!

People need to turn of the Fox News for a little while every day.
Start slow. Only watch 23 hrs a day instead of 24/7.
Even crack heads have to put the pipe down when it gets too hot!

You are IGNORANT!
You actually think the dollar is rising in value? You actually think oil is readily flowing out of Lybia?

The Oil industry profits typically are 8% and gasoline is 4%. Who owns over 85% of the World's OIL? Answer GOVERNMENT!

EDUCATE yourself.

Why are people BETTING the price of oil will go up in 30 days? You think it is because there is STABILITY in the Mid East and there was/is no MORATORIUM to drilling the USA?
Why aren't you betting that the price of oil is going down?

[PonyUP]

... and why is Chicago the most expensive in the country?

Not sure that's accurate, that title usually falls with Cali or New York, but Chicago is definitely in the top portion

[Fosters]

You are IGNORANT!
You actually think the dollar is rising in value? You actually think oil is readily flowing out of Lybia?

Why are people BETTING the price of oil will go up in 30 days? You think it is because there is STABILITY in the Mid East and there was/is no MORATORIUM to drilling the USA?
Why aren't you betting that the price of oil is going down?

Psst, dontcha know, the speculators are all investing into oil because there's too much of it, and there's no demand for it. Makes perfect sense if you don't think about it. Or if you're a liberal... :lol:

[Mr. Man]

You are IGNORANT!
You actually think the dollar is rising in value? You actually think oil is readily flowing out of Libya?

Why is it every time you post up when someone disagrees with your point of view you take to calling them names. It's like you think someone punched your mom in the face. Take a :pill: pill dude. Jeez:shake:

[PonyUP]

You actually think oil is readily flowing out of Lybia?

I think the imagined effect of Libya, meaning people in a panic over unrest in the Mideast, versus the actual disruption of oil from Lybia is what the real battle is. Not saying that what is going on in Libya isn't having an effect, it is as anytime their is turmoil in an oil producing market, the prices get raised and skewed. But the amount of oil we actually get from Libya is miniscule and in reality the panic is for nothing.

But the devalue of the dollar and the consequential surge in the price of oil is really driving gas prices through the roof. The demand has gone down for gas, and production has slowed, but it's really a chicken or the egg thing.

When prices are low, they pump oil in to flood the target and increase the cost of oil. Then when it's high, they slow production to keep prices up, flooding their pockets.

The real problem is, there are too many governmental obstacles for companies to drill in America. (EPA, taxes, ban on off shore, and where you can drill) that oil companies will drill elsewhere, making us dependent on an international market.

If we are dependent on an international market, then we will continue to be victims of the international market for oil pricing. Make it easier to drill here (with higher safety standards to prevent spills, but tell the EPA to go F themselves) and we can set our own market, keeping gas prices low, and V8's on the road.

[Fosters]

Why is it every time you post up when someone disagrees with your point of view you take to calling them names. It's like you think someone punched your mom in the face. Take a :pill: pill dude. Jeez:shake:

Kind of hard when that someone is so far out in the left field that they have no idea what's going on out there.

Plus, ever since the left started calling us teabaggers, I think anything thrown at the left is fair game. Let them get in my face like Obama told them to... :flamer:

[TAKEDOWN]

Not sure that's accurate, that title usually falls with Cali or New York, but Chicago is definitely in the top portion

This time around we took the crown!

[sailsmen]

PonyUp very well stated.

[sailsmen]

Notice the date.
Get Ready for Oil Prices to Soar
Opinion by Cato Institute
(March 26, 2009) in Money / The Recession
By Richard W. Rahn, Cato Institute

The price of oil soon will soar again. The present price of a barrel of oil, $50 or so, is below the price needed to meet current demand for a sustained period of time, and it is well below the price needed to meet global demand as the world economy rebounds.

In addition, with the U.S. Federal Reserve System greatly expanding the money supply - which will continue because of the explosion in government spending - the dollar is falling against other currencies; and given that global oil is priced in dollars, the price of oil will rise in dollar terms, just as it did two years ago.

About 65 percent of the demand for global oil can be supplied at a price of $35 per barrel. Another 20 percent of demand can be supplied at a price of $35 to $60 per barrel, but the remaining 15 percent will only be supplied over the long run at prices of $60 to perhaps $130 per barrel. Oil, like all commodities, is priced at the margin, which means the price of all oil demanded by the market is equal to the price that producers can get for the last barrel of oil they sell.

It takes considerable time to greatly increase oil production, and it also takes time to reduce production. Despite the global recession, oil production capacity is only slightly above demand, so that any significant supply disruption - a war in an oil-producing area, pipelines being blown up or tankers sunk, etc. - will almost immediately create a supply shock, causing the oil price to soar again.

Because of the drop in oil prices during the last eight months, high-cost production facilities are being shut down, including low-output wells, some offshore production, Canadian oil sands, etc. When the oil price shoots back up, it will take time to get these production facilities back on line.

Oil prices will almost certainly be much higher in real terms (inflation adjusted) during the next 15 years because world energy demand is expected to increase at an average annual rate of 1.6 percent between now and 2030. More than 80 percent of the increase in energy demand during the next two decades is expected to come from China, India and the Middle East.

Low-cost oil production is declining sharply, as the old easy-to-produce fields are being rapidly depleted. There are still huge potential oil supplies, but most of it will be in very expensive, deep-sea areas, or in oil sands (Canada) or oil shale (Colorado, Wyoming, Utah), all of which are much more costly to produce. Biofuels are also expensive and compete with food for land on which to produce them.

If suddenly it were announced that a miracle electric battery - one that could power a full-sized automobile at high speed for more than 300 miles and could be quickly recharged - had been developed, what impact do you think it would have on the price of gasoline next week? The answer is probably none because it would take several years for the manufacturers of automobiles to switch over completely to battery-powered ones, and then another decade or so before most of the existing stock of automobiles would be battery powered.

In the long run, improved battery technology will probably reduce the demand for liquid fossil fuels, but even under the most optimistic scenario, the dependence on oil will last a couple or more decades.

As vehicles eventually move from liquid fossil fuels to electricity, the demand for liquid petroleum will drop, but the demand for electricity will greatly increase. The environmentalists and many in the political class like to talk about "renewables" meeting the demand. A nice notion, but at best it is not going to happen for decades. As the chart shows, wind, solar and geothermal are less than 3 percent of total energy supply. They all still need to be heavily subsidized because they are not economical and probably will not be for many years.

Hence, even at high-growth rates, they will only supply a small percentage of total energy needs in the next two decades.

When oil prices soared a couple of years ago, the Bush administration moved to open up government lands and certain offshore areas for more oil exploration and production. Officials in the new Obama administration are now in the process of again locking up these areas to prevent oil production.

If the Obama administration is right in its forecast that the economy will be growing again by the end of this year - which is probably even more true for the world economy - the demand for oil will be rising rapidly again. Yet much production has been shut down because of the recession, and potential future supply inside the U.S. is being restricted by government action.

The result should be obvious - gasoline at the pump will be at least $3, if not $4 or more. Americans will still be hurting as a result of the recession, so many of them will be most unhappy to see the prices soar again.

Given that many in the political class seem to think the long run is the next five minutes, they do not see or want to see this tsunami coming. Many politicos will try to blame the high prices on "greedy oil companies" or laggard automobile executives rather than to look in the mirror and see the shortsighted demagogues whose policies led to the mess.

[sailsmen]

Why is it every time you post up when someone disagrees with your point of view you take to calling them names. It's like you think someone punched your mom in the face. Take a :pill: pill dude. Jeez:shake:

Per Krytin - "the original post is the biggest piece of bull that ever came of the wire.

Even crack heads have to put the pipe down when it gets too hot!"

He says I posted the "biggest piece of bull that ever" and I am a "crack head".

Nothing in that post was bull. It was an accurate news report. Yet Krytin does not like the facts in the news report and personally attacks me. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt by assuming his attack towards me is based on his IGNORANCE.

If you don't like my posts than don't read my threads or comment in them.

Krytin -"DING DING DING we have a winner!

With oil refinereies running at 80% NOT because they don't have raw product to process but because there is no DEMAND for it, the original post is the biggest piece of bull that ever came of the wire.

Wall street and the oil companies are screwing the entire world and with the largest profits reported - key word PROFITS which is money made AFTER the cost of doing business and those "terible" and "restrictive" taxes and regulations how can anyone say these companies are losing money?!

People need to turn of the Fox News for a little while every day.
Start slow. Only watch 23 hrs a day instead of 24/7.
Even crack heads have to put the pipe down when it gets too hot!"

[Mr. Man]

Kind of hard when that someone is so far out in the left field that they have no idea what's going on out there.

Plus, ever since the left started calling us teabaggers, I think anything thrown at the left is fair game. Let them get in my face like Obama told them to... :flamer:
If you want to call Republicans and Democrats in general names I have no problem with that. I would temper calling members who have a different point of view names unless they call you on the carpet first. That's why these political threads get closed so fast. It's not personal usually unless someone makes it that way. :)

[sailsmen]

More BS
Newsmax
Shell Oil Lambastes Odd EPA Denial on Drilling
Tuesday, April 26, 2011 01:36 PM
By: Martin Gould

After spending nearly $4 billion exploring, Shell Oil has been told it cannot start drilling for an estimated 27 billion gallons in the country’s most remote place — because a boat it uses might pollute the air. The Environmental Protection Agency’s appeals board denied permission for the Anglo-Dutch company to drill in the Arctic Ocean off Alaska’s northern coast, Fox News reports.


The EPA contends that Shell's icebreaker might pollute the air. (Getty Images Photo)
Shell did not take emissions from an icebreaking vessel into consideration when calculating so-called greenhouse gases from the project, the board said.

The closest human habitation to the proposed drilling site is the native Alaskan village of Kaktovik, with a population of 245, 70 miles away.

The oil company slammed the decision and renewed calls to stop EPA interference in drilling decisions.

“We think the issues were really not major and clearly not impactful for the communities we work in,” said Shell Vice President Pete Slaiby.

Republican Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski was blunt: “EPA has demonstrated that they’re not competent to handle the process. So if they’re not competent to handle it, they need to get out of the way.”

Alaska Natural Resources Commissioner Dan Sullivan said the decision is “driving investment and production overseas. That doesn’t help the United States in any way, shape or form.”

Fox News reported the appeals board has four members, all Democrats, including Kathie Stein, whom it described as “an activist attorney for the Environmental Defense Fund.”








© Newsmax. All rights reserved.

[rayjay]

We have people in charge of the government who have never had to struggle to pay their bills one day of their lives. Do you really think they care about the impact these high fuel prices have on the average joe lunch box? F no, they could care less until it bites them in the ass, like being ousted from office next year. That still won't help me heat my home this coming winter. I can pay ridiculous amounts for heating oil or switch to a coal based heating system. That investment will cost me the same as my fuel oil bill for next winter. Want to wager that the freaking green knuts go koo koo off the deep end when a bunch of us in the northeast make the switch to coal? You can't even have a open burn of any kind now in NYS thanks to those freaking lunatic tree hugging bastages. Next it will prison time if your home burns down. Go ahead and re elect B HO, you can sit and watch the country fall apart and be happy he is getting us of oil....

[sailsmen]

More BS
APRIL 23, 2011.Dollar's Decline Speeds Up, With Risks for U.S. .Article Video Comments (369) more in Business ».
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By TOM LAURICELLA
The U.S. dollar's downward slide is accelerating as low interest rates, inflation concerns and the massive federal budget deficit undermine the currency.

.With no relief in sight for the dollar on any of those fronts, the downward pressure on the dollar is widely expected to continue.The dollar fell nearly 1% against a broad basket of currencies this week, following a drop of similar size last week. The ICE U.S. Dollar Index closed at its lowest level since August 2008, before the financial crisis intensified.

"The dollar just hasn't had anything positive going for it," said Alessio de Longis, who oversees the Oppenheimer Currency Opportunities Fund.

The main driver for the dollar's decline is low interest rates in the U.S. compared with higher and rising rates abroad. Lower rates mean a lower return on cash—and the pressure from that factor could intensify next week when the Federal Reserve's rate-setting committee is expected to signal that U.S. short-term rates will likely remain near zero for many months to come. On Wednesday, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke is scheduled to give the central bank's first-ever press conference following a policy-setting meeting.

The dollar plunged to multiyear lows against most major currencies Thursday, as worries about the U.S. fiscal- and monetary-policy outlook made investors reluctant to hold the currency. Jon Hilsenrath and Michael Derby discuss.
.But it is worry about the U.S. budget deficit that is intensifying the selloff. On Monday, investors were spooked by a warning from Standard & Poor's that it might take away the U.S. government's coveted AAA rating status amid concerns the Obama administration and Republicans in Congress might not be able to agree to significant reductions in the deficit.

In addition, Chinese government officials have stepped up rhetoric hinting they might diversify their $3 trillion of currency reserves away from U.S. dollars. Such a shift would chip away at what has been a substantial source of dollar-buying in recent years.

China has in recent weeks been allowing its currency, the yuan, to appreciate steadily. This poses two challenges to the dollar. First, the more Beijing lets its currency rise, the less it needs to buy dollars to offset yuan strength. Second, other Asian countries that compete with China for exports may also allow their currencies to strengthen against the dollar.

Washington has been pushing Beijing to let the yuan rise against the dollar and other currencies, in order, among other things, to help reduce the U.S. trade deficit. But a continued decline in the value of the dollar is a double-edged sword for the U.S. economy.

A weaker dollar is a boon for U.S. exporters by making their goods more competitively priced. This has been a tailwind for technology companies and manufacturers, a bright spot in the otherwise slow economic recovery.

Since the recovery started in the third quarter of 2009, exports have contributed about 1.4 percentage points to the nation's 3.0% annualized growth rate, marking trade's biggest share of growth over an 18-month stretch on record.

But a weaker dollar hits strained consumers by raising the cost of imported oil, as exporters seek higher dollar-denominated crude prices to offset the dollar's waning value.

To a certain extent, some U.S. officials see the dollar's decline as the inevitable result of disparate growth rates between the U.S. and the fast-growing developing world. Mr. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner have given no indication they want to alter their stance.

Rebecca Patterson, chief markets strategist at JPMorgan Asset Management, doesn't foresee U.S. authorities intervening to stop the dollar's fall, unless there's evidence the weak dollar is taking a toll on the stock market.

"The U.S. historically has only gotten active in the currency market when the dollar moves were spilling over into other assets," she says. "American voters care a lot more about stocks and their 401(k)s. If the dollar starts to undermine that, that's when the Treasury Department pays more attention."

One source of comfort for the government is that the dollar's decline has been orderly. Against a broad basket of currencies, the dollar is down 9.1% from a year ago. In 2003 and 2004—a period of very low interest rates engineered by Mr. Bernanke's predecessor, Alan Greenspan—it registered annual declines of closer to 10%.

While the weaker currency is helping to drive the recovery, it has also contributed to palpable public worries about inflation and the diminished standing of the U.S. on a global stage. The weak currency helps to drive up the price of oil in dollar terms, and therefore gasoline at the pump, exacerbating another political problem for Mr. Obama at the moment. An April Gallup poll found that 42% of Americans surveyed had little to no faith that the Fed would do the right thing for the economy, and 43% had little to no faith in Mr. Geithner.

This past the week, the dollar, as measured by the index that tracks it against a basket of currencies, hit its lowest point since the 2008 financial crisis. Before the crisis began, the dollar had lost more than 40% of its value against the basket during a steady six-year decline, driven by many of the same factors bedeviling the currency today. The dollar is 5% away from its all-time low, hit in March 2008, as tracked by the dollar index, which dates back to 1971.

The dollar's weakness is even more striking in the face of the struggles facing the European Union and Japan, the U.S. currency's biggest rivals. Expectations are growing that Greece, which required a bailout from other euro-zone countries in 2010, will in coming months be forced to restructure its debt obligations. That could inflict losses on banks across Europe holding those bonds—an event that might be seen as a negative for the euro.

Japan is struggling to recover from the earthquake and subsequent nuclear disaster. The economic toll from the tragedy now looks as if it may play out for months. The biggest beneficiaries have been gold, which crossed $1,500 an ounce for the first time this week, and other commodities.

—Jon Hilsenrath and Jonathan Cheng contributed to this article.
Write to Tom Lauricella at tom.lauricella@wsj.com

Copyright 2011 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved

To think "oil speculators" ignore a drilling MORATORIUM in the Gulf and putting Billions of barrels in the artic Sea off limits is bizzarre,

[SC Cheesehead]

PonyUp very well stated.


+1, You nailed it Brad.

Speculative buying and pricing certainly can be driven by perception. And don't think for a moment that there's not a HUGE political push out of our current administratoin to force the country into pursuit of alternative energy. If there wasn't, we'd be looking at ways to increase our domestic output rather than diminish it, as was highlighted in the OP.

"Never let a serious crisis go to waste. What I mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things you couldn't do before." - Rahm Emanuel

[tbone]

DING DING DING we have a winner!

With oil refinereies running at 80% NOT because they don't have raw product to process but because there is no DEMAND for it, the original post is the biggest piece of bull that ever came of the wire.

Wall street and the oil companies are screwing the entire world and with the largest profits reported - key word PROFITS which is money made AFTER the cost of doing business and those "terible" and "restrictive" taxes and regulations how can anyone say these companies are losing money?!

People need to turn of the Fox News for a little while every day.
Start slow. Only watch 23 hrs a day instead of 24/7.
Even crack heads have to put the pipe down when it gets too hot!

What does Fox News have to do with any of this? :bs:

[sailsmen]

"Why are oil speculators being singled out when every commodity on the globe (except for our abundantly supplied natural gas market) is exploding? If energy speculators are to blame for running up prices, then why then are they leaving natural gas alone? Perhaps it is because we have plenty of supply and it is a domestically traded market that is less susceptible to the value of the dollar overseas."
http://www.futuresmag.com/News/2011/4/Pages/High-oil-prices-Blame-QE2-not-speculators.aspx?sms_ss=facebo ok&at_xt=4db6c60434ba1b44,0

[rayjay]

"Why are oil speculators being singled out when every commodity on the globe (except for our abundantly supplied natural gas market) is exploding? If energy speculators are to blame for running up prices, then why then are they leaving natural gas alone? Perhaps it is because we have plenty of supply and it is a domestically traded market that is less susceptible to the value of the dollar overseas."
http://www.futuresmag.com/News/2011/4/Pages/High-oil-prices-Blame-QE2-not-speculators.aspx?sms_ss=facebo ok&at_xt=4db6c60434ba1b44,0

Natural gas is not being left alone. We have an abudance in NYS, but the green fruit cakes are attacking the drilling for it. Half of them are red diaper dopey babies, the remainder idiot college students with nothing better to do. Funny the people where the drilling is going on want it for the major economic impact it has for their area. I live in one such area.

[kernie]

Natural gas is not being left alone. We have an abudance in NYS, but the green fruit cakes are attacking the drilling for it. Half of them are red diaper dopey babies, the remainder idiot college students with nothing better to do. Funny the people where the drilling is going on want it for the major economic impact it has for their area. I live in one such area.

The idiot college students and the red diaper dopey babies are doing what with the green fruit cakes?

[1 Bad Merc]

Maybe Obama should open up the Federal Oil Reserve and start selling some oil. This could be a good return on the governments investment and help offset some of the deficits in spending. We dont have to sell all of it but if we could make $70 to $80 per barrel and target it to the deficit it might be a good thing to do.

Then again we would have to trust the government ....not sure that would work out.

[PonyUP]

+1, You nailed it Brad.

Speculative buying and pricing certainly can be driven by perception. And don't think for a moment that there's not a HUGE political push out of our current administratoin to force the country into pursuit of alternative energy. If there wasn't, we'd be looking at ways to increase our domestic output rather than diminish it, as was highlighted in the OP.

"Never let a serious crisis go to waste. What I mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things you couldn't do before." - Rahm Emanuel

That's what pisses me off about this administration, their push for alternative energy is ruining what a free market is about. F
or example, if science was left to government, we would have the best iron lung in the world, but no cure for the disease.
Innovation happens through the free market and competition between companies. If left to their own accord, when the market dictated it, the car companies would and could create the best alternative vehicles. When mandated by the government, we get the overpriced useless aluminum cans we have now.
And the polarization that is taken place now between both parties puts the country in an endless stalemate until the next election. The challenge I see though, as an independent, is that the Republicans haven't showed any serious challengers yet for the seat. I don't think Trump or Palin has any staying power and I'm not in favor of either of those. But if they can get a popular candidate that isn't overly conservative and has some middle tendencies, they will take this thing in a walk.

[PonyUP]

What does Fox News have to do with any of this? :bs:

Agreed, it's bad enough our politicians and the radicals are casting outlandish critique and different parties and their followers, do we need to do it on this site

teabaggers, libtards? We aren't the enemies folks, we should be able to discuss these things in a civil many and respect all points of view without having to bring the worst out in ourselves :beer:

[Shaijack]

Billy for President and Ponyup for Vice-President. They will get my vote.

[Motorhead350]

We have people in charge of the government who have never had to struggle to pay their bills one day of their lives. Do you really think they care about the impact these high fuel prices have on the average joe lunch box? F no, they could care less until it bites them in the ass, like being ousted from office next year. That still won't help me heat my home this coming winter. I can pay ridiculous amounts for heating oil or switch to a coal based heating system. That investment will cost me the same as my fuel oil bill for next winter. Want to wager that the freaking green knuts go koo koo off the deep end when a bunch of us in the northeast make the switch to coal? You can't even have a open burn of any kind now in NYS thanks to those freaking lunatic tree hugging bastages. Next it will prison time if your home burns down. Go ahead and re elect B HO, you can sit and watch the country fall apart and be happy he is getting us of oil....

Ray I couldn't agree more! This proves what horrible people MOST politicians are. They only lookout for themselves when they are really supposed to be in office for the people.


That's what pisses me off about this administration, their push for alternative energy is ruining what a free market is about.

Yes I agree too.

Here is my POV. There are more reasons for rising gas prices then I'll ever know, but here is a few I can think of. We have pressed more cash, therefore if there is more, our currency is worth less. Which is why we have to pay more because our dollar isn't worth as much. Two is not only the president, but the administration. They have different agendas then Bush did. They want us to go green and drive POS Hybrids. That's why prices are the way they are, to get people into these other cars. Maybe he owns stock in a company that has a fleet or soon to be fleet of Hybrids. You voted for change and you will get it. I didn't want change, I didn't even vote.

Gas prices will go back down, but not for a while. They will only continue to rise as summer comes about. Gas has been even more expensive then this before because someone posted a chart a few weeks ago saying the prices of the past and what they would be in todays money.

Just hang in there. Don't let your Marauders go. Eat in, spend less and you can keep it going.

[Kennyrauder]

TRY $1.43 PER LITer lived in Scottsdale all winter & thought the price was great compared to Canada. Do the math, we are at somewhere near $ 5.60 a US gallon. I fueled near Sault Michigan . It cost me $102.00 CDN to fill a 21 gallon tank when I got back to Timmins Ont. canada. Try that on. Best regards Kenny.

[Motorhead350]

Oh yes I forgot something.

Look at other countries!

We have been spoiled for too long!

[Fosters]

Oh yes I forgot something.

Look at other countries!

We have been spoiled for too long!

I looked at venezuela. We haven't been spoiled at all. :D

[Motorhead350]

Try Germany and England.

[rayjay]

Try Germany and England.

Yes Dom they do have high fuel prices to support a very good public transportation system that they can use. Ours has been dismantled, other than some of the major urban areas. My sister inlaw has no need for a car where she lives, Hoboken, NJ or when she lived in Germany for 3 years. I have NO CHOICE, I must drive a vehicle. Well, I can just stay home, which I have been doing a lot of since January anyways.

[jerrym3]

Just curious, did the GWB family, or their close Texas friends and contributors, have any oil interests?

If so, maybe that's why he wasn't pushing alternative fuels and conservation as much as the present administration?

I don't really want to drive a hybrid or something similar, but I also want future generations to enjoy their lives, and, like it or not, most drivers are not car nuts (like us) and really just want transportation from a car.

[Fosters]

Try Germany and England.

Easy to say that. Have you ever been to Europe?

The gasoline prices there are so because of ridiculously high taxes; not because of the lack of subsidies or whatever. As rayjay said, part of the reason is because of public transport. Public transport works well when you have small distances in very dense populated areas to cover. It also works better than individuals driving their own cars because of the older cities not having been designed with parking in mind.

And despite their high taxes, most European countries have as big or even bigger budget deficits and debt problems than we do... ( respective to their GDP, of course )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax

Germany has 0.6545 euro per liter taxes. That comes out to 0.9598 USD per liter, or 3.6332 per gallon... On top of that, add a Value added tax of 19%. If you think we need those kinds of fuel taxes to pay for light rail and other crap that's unsustainable thru rider fare, I'm sorry, but you're a socialist.

[Fosters]

Just curious, did the GWB family, or their close Texas friends and contributors, have any oil interests?

If so, maybe that's why he wasn't pushing alternative fuels and conservation as much as the present administration?

I don't really want to drive a hybrid or something similar, but I also want future generations to enjoy their lives, and, like it or not, most drivers are not car nuts (like us) and really just want transportation from a car.

So how about the non car nut average drivers leave us to do as we please and we leave them do as they're pleased? If the majority is indeed looking for fuel efficient vehicles, the market will dictate what the auto manufacturers will make. If there are enough people, as you say, the majority, that want hybrids and alternative fuels and I'll lump in public transportation with that, then those things shouldn't have to have any problems being self sustainable in today's market. If there really are that many people wanting ethanol over oil based fuels, oil companies can't change their minds, they can only hope to compete. That so called majority that you allude to wanting a hybrid or alternative fuels, those people don't need my tax dollars to subsidize their vehicle/fuel/mode of transport - and yes, there are federal tax credits for buying a hybrid, and alternative fuels. And the fuel taxes are being used to fund public transportation also...

What's wrong with free markets - let the market decide if people want to buy hybrids or electric cars or alternative fuel cars? What's wrong with freedom of choice? Is freedom really that bad? :alone:

[prchrman]

Oh yes I forgot something.

Look at other countries!

We have been spoiled for too long!



How that Kool-Aid taste?

[Vortex]

The Executive Branch has very little to do with the price of gasoline. Right now there is a surplus of available oil. The price of gasoline is set by speculation on oil futures and demand for gasoline (gas prices always go up in the spring). Speculation is the primary cause for this particular run up. If you want to somebody to blame, blame the Wall Street commodity speculators.

[PonyUP]

So how about the non car nut average drivers leave us to do as we please and we leave them do as they're pleased? If the majority is indeed looking for fuel efficient vehicles, the market will dictate what the auto manufacturers will make. If there are enough people, as you say, the majority, that want hybrids and alternative fuels and I'll lump in public transportation with that, then those things shouldn't have to have any problems being self sustainable in today's market. If there really are that many people wanting ethanol over oil based fuels, oil companies can't change their minds, they can only hope to compete. That so called majority that you allude to wanting a hybrid or alternative fuels, those people don't need my tax dollars to subsidize their vehicle/fuel/mode of transport - and yes, there are federal tax credits for buying a hybrid, and alternative fuels. And the fuel taxes are being used to fund public transportation also...

What's wrong with free markets - let the market decide if people want to buy hybrids or electric cars or alternative fuel cars? What's wrong with freedom of choice? Is freedom really that bad? :alone:

+1,
I agree that I would like to see the worlds best alternative fuel car created (Not electric as that will just make us dependent on electricity and nuclear power, and is that really any different than being dependent on oil?)

But it has to be dictated by an open market. As stated before, if Polio was left to the government, we would have the worlds best and most expensive iron lung, but no cure. Science needs to be free to develop on it's own and free market and competition need to drive that need.

To say our current mess is because the Bush's had oil interest, I just don't but that. Sure they certainly eased some of the safety regulations to make it easier for oil companies to drill, but truly that would just drive down the price of oil.

Gasoline is high because they make money off of it. Since tax on gas also goes up, why would the government have any interest in truly lowering gas prices, especially this government as it is akin to lowering taxes on the average american? No way President Spends A lot will do that.

Some of the spending that went on in the past was necessary to help rebound the economy, but like a teenager that got their first credit card, we have just gotten used to spend now, pay later. Until the credit card gets maxed out, then they ask Daddy to help them out. The problem is, the countries Daddy right now is China, which prevents us from taking a tougher line on their import practices, because we need their loans.

And because the summer is the highest driving season and we always see gas prices soike over the summer, they can try all they want to say they want it lowered, but it's a facade, they want the tax money during the highest season.

Today they are going to discuss eliminating oil subsidies. Now I can hear a lot of people saying "Yes, they should do that, oil companies are making record profits". But in reality, the more stringent we make it for oil companies to drill here, like any company they are going to analyze their costs. If they can drill in Russia for a fraction of the cost and without the environmental restrictions, they are going to do it, which again makes us victim to an international market instead of feeding ourselves through our own supply.

[jerrym3]

Fosters, I didn't say most drivers wanted it.

I said they really don't care.

[SC Cheesehead]

So how about the non car nut average drivers leave us to do as we please and we leave them do as they're pleased? If the majority is indeed looking for fuel efficient vehicles, the market will dictate what the auto manufacturers will make. If there are enough people, as you say, the majority, that want hybrids and alternative fuels and I'll lump in public transportation with that, then those things shouldn't have to have any problems being self sustainable in today's market. If there really are that many people wanting ethanol over oil based fuels, oil companies can't change their minds, they can only hope to compete. That so called majority that you allude to wanting a hybrid or alternative fuels, those people don't need my tax dollars to subsidize their vehicle/fuel/mode of transport - and yes, there are federal tax credits for buying a hybrid, and alternative fuels. And the fuel taxes are being used to fund public transportation also...

What's wrong with free markets - let the market decide if people want to buy hybrids or electric cars or alternative fuel cars? What's wrong with freedom of choice? Is freedom really that bad? :alone:


+1,
I agree that I would like to see the worlds best alternative fuel car created (Not electric as that will just make us dependent on electricity and nuclear power, and is that really any different than being dependent on oil?)

But it has to be dictated by an open market. As stated before, if Polio was left to the government, we would have the worlds best and most expensive iron lung, but no cure. Science needs to be free to develop on it's own and free market and competition need to drive that need.

To say our current mess is because the Bush's had oil interest, I just don't but that. Sure they certainly eased some of the safety regulations to make it easier for oil companies to drill, but truly that would just drive down the price of oil.

Gasoline is high because they make money off of it. Since tax on gas also goes up, why would the government have any interest in truly lowering gas prices, especially this government as it is akin to lowering taxes on the average american? No way President Spends A lot will do that.

Some of the spending that went on in the past was necessary to help rebound the economy, but like a teenager that got their first credit card, we have just gotten used to spend now, pay later. Until the credit card gets maxed out, then they ask Daddy to help them out. The problem is, the countries Daddy right now is China, which prevents us from taking a tougher line on their import practices, because we need their loans.

And because the summer is the highest driving season and we always see gas prices soike over the summer, they can try all they want to say they want it lowered, but it's a facade, they want the tax money during the highest season.

Today they are going to discuss eliminating oil subsidies. Now I can hear a lot of people saying "Yes, they should do that, oil companies are making record profits". But in reality, the more stringent we make it for oil companies to drill here, like any company they are going to analyze their costs. If they can drill in Russia for a fraction of the cost and without the environmental restrictions, they are going to do it, which again makes us victim to an international market instead of feeding ourselves through our own supply.

Big +1 guys.

Here are the 2010 end of year numbers for car sales (as reported by Edmunds):

All Hybrids: 274,763 (down 5.8% from previous year)
All Vehicles sold: 11,588,783 (up 11.1% from previous year)

That's a whopping 2.4% of sales.

Several news sources have been touting the big spike in sales (30%+ increase) of plug-in electric cars for the first three months of 2011 over EOY 2010, what they don't tell you is that in December 2010 (the first month that Edmunds tracked sales for these vehicles) there were 345 sold.

A 30% increase = 104 cars. If I assume that the 30% increase holds month over month for all of 2011 (which is not too likely), you're looking at an annual sales volume of around 26,000 vehicles.

And they said the sales numbers on the Marauder were disappointing... :rolleyes:

I'd say the American public is giving a pretty good indication of their thoughts regarding hybrids and electric cars.

So tell me again, PrezBO, why are we pushing these alternative vehicles instead of increasing domestic oil production for the vehicles that American buyers so strongly indicate they really want?

[Fosters]

Gasoline is high because they make money off of it. Since tax on gas also goes up, why would the government have any interest in truly lowering gas prices, especially this government as it is akin to lowering taxes on the average american? No way President Spends A lot will do that.


Agreed on everything except this. Gasoline taxes are fixed; 18.4c federal per gallon and the rest are state taxes, also a fixed amount, but which varies from state to state. People using less oil and driving more miles via more efficient vehicles is the main reason states like Minnesota is looking at GPSs on cars to tax by the mile instead of by the gallon... I need to move out of this craphole.


Fosters, I didn't say most drivers wanted it.

I said they really don't care.

Right. You said the Bush family had oil ties and didn't push alternative fuels as much as this administration and that the majority of drivers just want transportation from a car... if that's not hinting that subsidies for alternative fuels or hybrids are the right thing to do (because having oil ties is obviously portrayed as the wrong/evil thing), then why bring up the Bush family at all? :cool4:

[kernie]

..............

[LIGHTNIN1]

Well we will see how $6 a gallon gas works out for the Messiah in the next election. I will remember what he said about it when I vote.

[SC Cheesehead]

..............
:popcorn::popcorn:

[kernie]

:popcorn::popcorn:

Ya, thought better on that one, :shake:.

[sailsmen]

The Executive Branch has very little to do with the price of gasoline. Right now there is a surplus of available oil. The price of gasoline is set by speculation on oil futures and demand for gasoline (gas prices always go up in the spring). Speculation is the primary cause for this particular run up. If you want to somebody to blame, blame the Wall Street commodity speculators.

The speculators are speculating on continued acts by the Pres Obama/Executive Branch to 1) stop all drilling in the USA, see post #1. In the Gulf of Mexico only drilling that has been approved in 1 year is a redrill/resumption of a previoulsy prermitted well that was shut down and 2) the continued DEVALUATION of the DOLLAR as a result of the Pres/Executive branch printing 11 times, per Art Laffer, more money in one year than ever before in our history and increasing the Public Debt 55%, per CBO, in 2 years while proposing a 10 years Budget that rasies the Public Debt from 44% of GDP to 90% of GDP, per CBO.

For reference see posts 33, 36, 38, 41.

[tbone]

Has it occured to anyone that the dollar merely isn't worth **** anymore, there is no confidence in it whatsoever as countries conspire to remove it as the world's standard currency?
Why? Because Oblamo spends and prints it recklessly. We've even lost our "stable" credit rating by Standard and Poors for the first time in history.

[sailsmen]

Post #33 3-26-2009
"When oil prices soared a couple of years ago, the Bush administration moved to open up government lands and certain offshore areas for more oil exploration and production. Officials in the new Obama administration are now in the process of again locking up these areas to prevent oil production.

If the Obama administration is right in its forecast that the economy will be growing again by the end of this year - which is probably even more true for the world economy - the demand for oil will be rising rapidly again. Yet much production has been shut down because of the recession, and potential future supply inside the U.S. is being restricted by government action."

Post #38 4-23-2011
"The U.S. dollar's downward slide is accelerating as low interest rates, inflation concerns and the massive federal budget deficit undermine the currency.

.With no relief in sight for the dollar on any of those fronts, the downward pressure on the dollar is widely expected to continue
But a weaker dollar hits strained consumers by raising the cost of imported oil, as exporters seek higher dollar-denominated crude prices to offset the dollar's waning value."

[CBT]

Good, now maybe they will pay down some debt, like paying off a credit card after realizing how much is on it and how high the interest rate is.

[sailsmen]

Why when you can continue to buy votes with other peoples money?

The Federal GOVERNMENT SPENDS $25,200 PER WORKER OF WHICH $10,000 IS BORROWED

[kernie]

Hmm...that large U.S. debt is in U.S. dollars...

Wonder how the debt holders feel about that?

[CBT]

Hmm...that large U.S. debt is in U.S. dollars...

Wonder how the debt holders feel about that?
Well China holds about 2 trillion of it, let's see them cash in thier marker. HAHAHA, suckers!

[SC Cheesehead]

Well China holds about 2 trillion of it, let's see them cash in thier marker. HAHAHA, suckers!


THAT's what I'm worried about; that they will try to cash it in...

[PonyUP]

THAT's what I'm worried about; that they will try to cash it in...

Great then they will foreclose and we will be the United States of China, well at least we wouldn't ahve to worry about elections anymore :lol:

[CBT]

THAT's what I'm worried about; that they will try to cash it in...
Like my old man used to say when I'd ask for allowance: "Son, nothin' from nothin' is nothin'. How much ya need?"

[SC Cheesehead]

Great then they will foreclose and we will be the United States of China, well at least we wouldn't ahve to worry about elections anymore :lol:

Hey, and just think we won't be importing nearly as much, will all be from the "home country"... ;)

[sailsmen]

If we stop borrowing we have China by the balls. Keep borrowing and China has us by the Balls.
This is why China keeps loaning us money.;)

Inflation is the easy way out. As soon as the risk of deflation is gone look to record inflation.

[PonyUP]

Hey, and just think we won't be importing nearly as much, will all be from the "home country"... ;)

Crap, I just realized that if this happens, imports with fart can mufflers will then be considered buying American.

Crap now we all have to get ugly paint jobs, and have cars that sound like they are apologizing everytime they rev.

[CBT]

Crap, I just realized that if this happens, imports with fart can mufflers will then be considered buying American.

Crap now we all have to get ugly paint jobs, and have cars that sound like they are apologizing everytime they rev.

LMAO! Now whenever I rip one, I'm going to say "Bad Honda, BAD!"

[jerrym3]

Fosters, it was a question and a "what if" statement. Nothing more. Stop trying to read something that isn't there. (But, just for the heck of it, what is the answer?)

As for the free market making a decision, at the NY Autoshow, a large section of the floor was roped off and spectators were allowed to drive different battery powered vehicles.

It was not brand sensitive; more than one brand had test cars available.

The market will make the call regarding alternative fuel vehicles, and why we may not like the end result, it will happen.

As for the market and oil prices, there is no such thing as a free market when it comes to a product that everyone needs and uses but is controlled by the relative few.

Maybe you did or didn't drive back in the 70's when we experienced long gas lines. We would have paid anything just to get a full tank.

[Fosters]

Fosters, it was a question and a "what if" statement. Nothing more. Stop trying to read something that isn't there. (But, just for the heck of it, what is the answer?)

As for the free market making a decision, at the NY Autoshow, a large section of the floor was roped off and spectators were allowed to drive different battery powered vehicles.

It was not brand sensitive; more than one brand had test cars available.

The market will make the call regarding alternative fuel vehicles, and why we may not like the end result, it will happen.

As for the market and oil prices, there is no such thing as a free market when it comes to a product that everyone needs and uses but is controlled by the relative few.

Maybe you did or didn't drive back in the 70's when we experienced long gas lines. We would have paid anything just to get a full tank.

Not everyone needs to buy gasoline. The amish get along well without it. It's your choice to buy gasoline, no one is forcing you. Feel free to not buy any of it; and at the same time, don't punish me with gas guzzler taxes, and don't steal my tax money to pay for your battery powered shoebox. I don't make you pay for my nitrous fill-ups. :banana2:

[SC Cheesehead]

Fosters, it was a question and a "what if" statement. Nothing more. Stop trying to read something that isn't there. (But, just for the heck of it, what is the answer?)

As for the free market making a decision, at the NY Autoshow, a large section of the floor was roped off and spectators were allowed to drive different battery powered vehicles.

It was not brand sensitive; more than one brand had test cars available.

The market will make the call regarding alternative fuel vehicles, and why we may not like the end result, it will happen.

As for the market and oil prices, there is no such thing as a free market when it comes to a product that everyone needs and uses but is controlled by the relative few.

Maybe you did or didn't drive back in the 70's when we experienced long gas lines. We would have paid anything just to get a full tank.

We have huge oil reserves in this country, but the majority of it has been deemed inaccessable by the government, which appears have its own agenda for controlling "a product that everyone needs and uses"...

Ah, but you're forgetting one of the undelying causes of those long gas lines, the " Emergency Petroleum Allocation Act" of 1973 that initiated government-controlled two tier prcing for crude oil, as well as establishing allocation of oil reserves by region.

See any similarities? Methinks they're both a case of Big Brother trying to resolve issues best left to free market forces.

[Fosters]

We have huge oil reserves in this country, but the majority of it has been deemed inaccessable by the government, which appears have its own agenda for controlling "a product that everyone needs and uses"...

Ah, but you're forgetting one of the undelying causes of those long gas lines, the " Emergency Petroleum Allocation Act" of 1973 that initiated government-controlled two tier prcing for crude oil, as well as establishing allocation of oil reserves by region.

See any similarities? Methinks they're both a case of Big Brother trying to resolve issues best left to free market forces.

Pfft. The long gas lines in the 70s were because they didn't have electric cars and ethanol. :lol:

By the way, weren't they saying in the 70s we're gonna run out of oil? Funny how they keep finding the stuff everywhere and figure out new ways to get more of it...

[LIGHTNIN1]

If we stop borrowing we have China by the balls. Keep borrowing and China has us by the Balls.
This is why China keeps loaning us money.;)

Inflation is the easy way out. As soon as the risk of deflation is gone look to record inflation.


In my neighborhood inflation has hit already and in a big way. In we could get prices of things 5 years ago we could tell how much it is. I know that a lot of things in restaurants have gone up quite a bit. The dollar menu at McDonalds for instance.Some of the stuff that started at 99 cents is now $1.39.

[PonyUP]

In my neighborhood inflation has hit already and in a big way. In we could get prices of things 5 years ago we could tell how much it is. I know that a lot of things in restaurants have gone up quite a bit. The dollar menu at McDonalds for instance.Some of the stuff that started at 99 cents is now $1.39.

Remember when you could get two Big Mac's for $2 in that special, now it's $3.

[SC Cheesehead]

Remember when you could get two Big Mac's for $2 in that special, now it's $3.

Used to have a place back home called Tucker's Twofer's, two hamburgers for a quarter (late 60's - early 70's).

Name has since changed to just Tuckers, and the price of a single burger is now $0.69 (1/4 pounders are $2.75)

[jerrym3]

Fosters, for a moment I thought you were serious with the remark about the Amish. Whew. What a relief.

As for my electric shoebox, back in post #54, I clearly said that I was not in favor of driving a hybrid or similar car.

In my 50 years of car ownership, every car has been an eight cylinder, except for my 1985 TurboCoupe.

I spent every Sunday in the early 60's at Englishtown's Raceway Park, so please don't confuse me with someone who doesn't enjoy performance in a car.

[PonyUP]

Used to have a place back home called Tucker's Twofer's, two hamburgers for a quarter (late 60's - early 70's).

Name has since changed to just Tuckers, and the price of a single burger is now $0.69 (1/4 pounders are $2.75)

Do they give you gas like White Castle? Cause if so, thats a win at $0.69

[SC Cheesehead]

Do they give you gas like White Castle? Cause if so, thats a win at $0.69


The only thing I've found that's even remotely close to a slider is

http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:z0EwXaReaTQzdM::2 4.media.tumblr.com/dFzvgrObUprzi5l04VpyxKlzo1_400 .jpg&t=1&h=78&w=113&usg=__P3mLa8Wpf0ad-WGFpm3U78joBIE= (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://24.media.tumblr.com/dFzvgrObUprzi5l04VpyxKlzo1_400 .jpg&imgrefurl=http://thatsimportant.tumblr.com/post/139654132/important-southern-american-fast-food&h=276&w=400&sz=27&tbnid=z0EwXaReaTQzdM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=124&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dkrystal%2Bburgers %26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=krystal+burgers&hl=en&usg=__dpDDYtOKnVUS1UMOryR-u82E1vg=&sa=X&ei=Z3e4TfTIJIeDtgflyNneBA&ved=0CFQQ9QEwCQ)

A Kystal Sackful and a six pack will take a guy a long ways... :food:

[PonyUP]

The only thing I've found that's even remotely close to a slider is

http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:z0EwXaReaTQzdM::2 4.media.tumblr.com/dFzvgrObUprzi5l04VpyxKlzo1_400 .jpg&t=1&h=78&w=113&usg=__P3mLa8Wpf0ad-WGFpm3U78joBIE= (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://24.media.tumblr.com/dFzvgrObUprzi5l04VpyxKlzo1_400 .jpg&imgrefurl=http://thatsimportant.tumblr.com/post/139654132/important-southern-american-fast-food&h=276&w=400&sz=27&tbnid=z0EwXaReaTQzdM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=124&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dkrystal%2Bburgers %26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=krystal+burgers&hl=en&usg=__dpDDYtOKnVUS1UMOryR-u82E1vg=&sa=X&ei=Z3e4TfTIJIeDtgflyNneBA&ved=0CFQQ9QEwCQ)

A Kystal Sackful and a six pack will take a guy a long ways... :food:

The Castle always makes my Honda Farts smell like onions, and the smell doesn't go away for like 8 hrs. I call a 6 pack sack a veangence attack

[Fosters]

Fosters, for a moment I thought you were serious with the remark about the Amish. Whew. What a relief.

As for my electric shoebox, back in post #54, I clearly said that I was not in favor of driving a hybrid or similar car.

In my 50 years of car ownership, every car has been an eight cylinder, except for my 1985 TurboCoupe.

I spent every Sunday in the early 60's at Englishtown's Raceway Park, so please don't confuse me with someone who doesn't enjoy performance in a car.

I didn't say you were a prius lover; but I don't see how you can advocate for alternate fuels, and the subsidies for these, bash oil; and in the same breath claim you're a true hotrodder, with octane flowing through your veins... My main point is simply this: Stop subsidies for all. The only thing gas taxes should be used for is roads and bridges. Let the technology evolve at it's own pace, and don't use tax dollars to sponsor less efficient technologies all in the name of going green.

Necessity is the mother of all inventions. If the world is doing so bad due to all of this recent global warming that we've had, people will see the need for alternate fuels, being electric, ethanol, etc, and they will buy them. If the world is running out of oil, it will get more and more expensive as the supply dries up, and then other alternative fuels may/will become more viable. Until then, dumping money into supporting technologies that aren't capable of surviving on their own is just a waste of taxpayer dollars, and confiscation of freedoms (I'm not free to do as I please with my tax dollars which are instead going to hybrid, ethanol & inefficient public transportation - that I'll never use - subsidies).

[LIGHTNIN1]

The only thing I've found that's even remotely close to a slider is

http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:z0EwXaReaTQzdM::2 4.media.tumblr.com/dFzvgrObUprzi5l04VpyxKlzo1_400 .jpg&t=1&h=78&w=113&usg=__P3mLa8Wpf0ad-WGFpm3U78joBIE= (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://24.media.tumblr.com/dFzvgrObUprzi5l04VpyxKlzo1_400 .jpg&imgrefurl=http://thatsimportant.tumblr.com/post/139654132/important-southern-american-fast-food&h=276&w=400&sz=27&tbnid=z0EwXaReaTQzdM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=124&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dkrystal%2Bburgers %26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=krystal+burgers&hl=en&usg=__dpDDYtOKnVUS1UMOryR-u82E1vg=&sa=X&ei=Z3e4TfTIJIeDtgflyNneBA&ved=0CFQQ9QEwCQ)

A Kystal Sackful and a six pack will take a guy a long ways... :food:

I love Krystal. I have to travel south every so often to eat there. Was in Alabama last week and ate burgers there. Yum! Yum!

[fastblackmerc]

The only thing I've found that's even remotely close to a slider is

http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:z0EwXaReaTQzdM::2 4.media.tumblr.com/dFzvgrObUprzi5l04VpyxKlzo1_400 .jpg&t=1&h=78&w=113&usg=__P3mLa8Wpf0ad-WGFpm3U78joBIE= (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://24.media.tumblr.com/dFzvgrObUprzi5l04VpyxKlzo1_400 .jpg&imgrefurl=http://thatsimportant.tumblr.com/post/139654132/important-southern-american-fast-food&h=276&w=400&sz=27&tbnid=z0EwXaReaTQzdM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=124&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dkrystal%2Bburgers %26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=krystal+burgers&hl=en&usg=__dpDDYtOKnVUS1UMOryR-u82E1vg=&sa=X&ei=Z3e4TfTIJIeDtgflyNneBA&ved=0CFQQ9QEwCQ)

A Kystal Sackful and a six pack will take a guy a long ways... :food:

And a quick trip to the *****ter.

[Mr. Man]

And a quick trip to the *****ter.
Well after all that fat and cholesterol you need to get a little exercise to burn off the calories:D

[jerrym3]

Forster, "don't punish me with gas guzzler taxes, and don't steal my tax money to pay for your battery powered shoebox"

These are your words. My "battery powered shoebox"? Doesn't that mean I'm a Prius lover? Wrong.

Also, I never advocated for alternative fuels.

I did say that it's probably going to happen based on the market. Witness the growth of drivers in China (world's largest vehicle market) and India.

Do you think either of these countries will have dragstrips, care about nitrous, or 0-60 times?

So, what do you think automobile mfgs are going to emphasize in the future, economy (ie: alternative fuels) or quarter mile times?

Buick already admits that it designs cars for the Chinese market, not the USA market.

[Motorhead350]

How that Kool-Aid taste?

I don't understand your joke.


Easy to say that. Have you ever been to Europe?

The gasoline prices there are so because of ridiculously high taxes; not because of the lack of subsidies or whatever. As rayjay said, part of the reason is because of public transport. Public transport works well when you have small distances in very dense populated areas to cover. It also works better than individuals driving their own cars because of the older cities not having been designed with parking in mind.

And despite their high taxes, most European countries have as big or even bigger budget deficits and debt problems than we do... ( respective to their GDP, of course )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax

Germany has 0.6545 euro per liter taxes. That comes out to 0.9598 USD per liter, or 3.6332 per gallon... On top of that, add a Value added tax of 19%. If you think we need those kinds of fuel taxes to pay for light rail and other crap that's unsustainable thru rider fare, I'm sorry, but you're a socialist.

Yes I have. Going back in few months. This thread was about prices, the reasoning is different all around the world silly goose.

[Fosters]

Yes I have. Going back in few months. This thread was about prices, the reasoning is different all around the world silly goose.

But in your reasoning, we have been spoiled compared to the rest of the world... So that must mean you think our fuel needs to get taxed 3.50+ per gallon because that's what's right? :shake:


Forster, "don't punish me with gas guzzler taxes, and don't steal my tax money to pay for your battery powered shoebox"

These are your words. My "battery powered shoebox"? Doesn't that mean I'm a Prius lover? Wrong.

Also, I never advocated for alternative fuels.

I did say that it's probably going to happen based on the market. Witness the growth of drivers in China (world's largest vehicle market) and India.

Do you think either of these countries will have dragstrips, care about nitrous, or 0-60 times?

So, what do you think automobile mfgs are going to emphasize in the future, economy (ie: alternative fuels) or quarter mile times?

Buick already admits that it designs cars for the Chinese market, not the USA market.

I think you're confusing the figuratively "your" with your individual persona. I lumped you in with that crowd because of your first post, which sounded as if you are supporting the subsidies of alternate fuels. If that's not the case, I'm not sure why you would bring up 'future generations who just want transport from a car' and the Bush family that didn't subsidize them because of their ties with big oil.

What do I think manufacturers are gonna emphasize in the future? If government keeps their nose out of it, whatever the population will want. The horsepower race seems to be in full swing right now. That didn't come because of people wanting priuses. I doubt that if you round up all the hybrid sales they would even come close to all 3 pony car sales; let alone other gas guzzlers like the trucks... And it would be even worse for the hybrids if the government hadn't intervened. If the greenies would actually play by the rules, and try to sway the public's opinion about what cars to drive and whatnot, it would be great. However, that's not the case, they're instead trying to legislate a market for their products, by getting congress to use my and your tax dollars whether we like it or not, to pay for part of these things.

Imagine the outrage if the hotrod crowd demanded congress pass a law for the greenies to subsidize drag radials, race gas, and nitrous fillups...

[jerrym3]

Foster, yeah, guess I confused "your" with "your".

Never advocated subsidies for alternative fuels.

I suggested GWB and oil ties only because somewhere in an earlier post (which I can't seem to find), there was a hint that Obama might have a link to green companies. What's good for the goose is............

Yes, horsepower race is back on, but these high hp cars were designed and planned before gas prices went nuts (again). Fortunately, even smaller engined cars run pretty good compared to just a few short years ago.

SUV sales tanked after gas prices jumped a few years ago. Hope performance cars don't take the same hit.

"Economical" and "transportation" seem to be the keywords now.

[prchrman]

[QUOTE=Motorhead350;1039158]I don't understand your joke.


IE, that line of "we are spoiled" is such an over used lefty talking point it is not even funny. Are we spoiled because TVs and house hold appliance prices have not went up? It is a inane statement and has only been used by those that want gas to be taxed enough to set the price at a minimum of $5 a gallon so we use less and therefor lessen our greenhouse gases and therefor avoiding the made up GW (or is that CC now) agenda, you know the hockey stick junk that brother Al and other the sky is falling bunch are making a killing off of. The same bunch that kill babies and save cats, the same bunch that don't want to drill for oil here but want to give our money to people that hate us and will use that money to kill us, the same bunch that do not want to shut our borders but want us to go around the world killing people in their own borders (George Carlin we like to bomb brown people), the same bunch that want to take our guns but will not convict real crimminals, the same bunch who love nature but want to shut down the national park system so no one can see nature. That is the Kool-Aid of which I speak. SORRY, RANT OFF for the rest of 2011.

[CBT]

[QUOTE=prchrman;1039203

IE, that line of "we are spoiled" is such an over used lefty talking point it is not even funny. Are we spoiled because TVs and house hold appliance prices have not went up? It is a inane statement and has only been used by those that want gas to be taxed enough to set the price at a minimum of $5 a gallon so we use less and therefor lessen our greenhouse gases and therefor avoiding the made up GW (or is that CC now) agenda, you know the hockey stick junk that brother Al and other the sky is falling bunch are making a killing off of. The same bunch that kill babies and save cats, the same bunch that don't want to drill for oil here but want to give our money to people that hate us and will use that money to kill us, the same bunch that do not want to shut our borders but want us to go around the world killing people in their own borders (George Carlin we like to bomb brown people), the same bunch that want to take our guns but will not convict real crimminals, the same bunch who love nature but want to shut down the national park system so no one can see nature. That is the Kool-Aid of which I speak. SORRY, RANT OFF for the rest of 2011.[/QUOTE]

KA-POW! Love it, man. :beer:

[SC Cheesehead]

KA-POW! Love it, man. :beer:

You get Willie on a roll and he'll tell it like it is. :up:

[CBT]

You get Willie on a roll and he'll tell it like it is. :up:
....he must drive blue marauder, if not, must get him one... :beer:

[SC Cheesehead]

....he must drive blue marauder, if not, must get him one... :beer:

You've not met willie?

Great guy. Drives a black MM, but that's the only thing I can hold against him... ;)

[rayjay]

KA-POW! Love it, man. :beer:

+1. Amen Brother!!!!

[CBT]

You've not met willie?

Great guy. Drives a black MM, but that's the only thing I can hold against him... ;)

I don't THINK we've met, but I do tend to, ahem, party at Marauder gatherings. I would have to say no, we've not met. Seems like we'd get along. :beer:

[Fosters]

IE, that line of "we are spoiled" is such an over used lefty talking point it is not even funny. Are we spoiled because TVs and house hold appliance prices have not went up? It is a inane statement and has only been used by those that want gas to be taxed enough to set the price at a minimum of $5 a gallon so we use less and therefor lessen our greenhouse gases and therefor avoiding the made up GW (or is that CC now) agenda, you know the hockey stick junk that brother Al and other the sky is falling bunch are making a killing off of. The same bunch that kill babies and save cats, the same bunch that don't want to drill for oil here but want to give our money to people that hate us and will use that money to kill us, the same bunch that do not want to shut our borders but want us to go around the world killing people in their own borders (George Carlin we like to bomb brown people), the same bunch that want to take our guns but will not convict real crimminals, the same bunch who love nature but want to shut down the national park system so no one can see nature. That is the Kool-Aid of which I speak. SORRY, RANT OFF for the rest of 2011.

:beer:






.

[MrBluGruv]

IE, that line of "we are spoiled" is such an over used lefty talking point it is not even funny. Are we spoiled because TVs and house hold appliance prices have not went up? It is a inane statement and has only been used by those that want gas to be taxed enough to set the price at a minimum of $5 a gallon so we use less and therefor lessen our greenhouse gases and therefor avoiding the made up GW (or is that CC now) agenda, you know the hockey stick junk that brother Al and other the sky is falling bunch are making a killing off of. The same bunch that kill babies and save cats, the same bunch that don't want to drill for oil here but want to give our money to people that hate us and will use that money to kill us, the same bunch that do not want to shut our borders but want us to go around the world killing people in their own borders (George Carlin we like to bomb brown people), the same bunch that want to take our guns but will not convict real crimminals, the same bunch who love nature but want to shut down the national park system so no one can see nature. That is the Kool-Aid of which I speak. SORRY, RANT OFF for the rest of 2011.


I think we can pretty much close the thread now after this much win. :eek:

[SC Cheesehead]

I think we can pretty much close the thread now after this much win. :eek:


Getting ready to close the thread?

Post count +1, IBTL....

[kernie]

You could allways turn this thread into a Donald Trump for president or the President shoots down the birthers or...

I can likely come up with more, just trying to be helpfull.

:D

[CBT]

You could allways turn this thread into a Donald Trump for president or the President shoots down the birthers or...

I can likely come up with more, just trying to be helpfull.

:D


...Kernie trys to help, half of thread runs, other half reach for more ammo...

[rayjay]

You could allways turn this thread into a Donald Trump for president or the President shoots down the birthers or...

I can likely come up with more, just trying to be helpfull.

:D

Well, a alleged expert in these things here says the birth document posted by B HO is a fake. He explained how it was faked. BTW, why did it take so long for B HO to address this? I can produce my birth certificate upon request.

[Fosters]

You could allways turn this thread into a Donald Trump for president or the President shoots down the birthers or...

I can likely come up with more, just trying to be helpfull.

:D

Or you could try to argue how much good the stimulus package and cash for clunkers and the war in libya have done for the US... :duel::poke:

[rayjay]

...Kernie trys to help, half of thread runs, other half reach for more ammo...


More ammo? Where? Can never have enough ammo or guns. :eek: :D

[SC Cheesehead]

Or you could try to argue how much good the stimulus package and cash for clunkers and the war in libya have done for the US... :duel::poke:

C.Y.C.B.I.... :shake:

[tbone]

He should have produced it before he placed his hand on the Quran....I mean bible.

[PonyUP]

Well I do have to admit, that I think the whole birther thing is a little outlandish and I think the birthers are focusing on the wrong thing. He's President now, it's not like you can erase the his Presidency (though we wish we could)

Personally I think it's much ado about nothing, we need to remember that Hawaii was a foreign country until the late 40's. The initial birth certificate they issued, that Obama used is what is used for all of their citizens. Then when he comes out with the long version, everyone thinks it's photoshopped. Seems to me it's an inane argument to be having we should be arguing

Healthcare
Taxes
Gas
Spending
Oil drilling
Insurance
More Spending
Iraq
Afgahnistan
Libya

And everything else he has done wrong. JMO :beer:

[Mr. Man]

Well I do have to admit, that I think the whole birther thing is a little outlandish and I think the birthers are focusing on the wrong thing. He's President now, it's not like you can erase the his Presidency (though we wish we could)

Personally I think it's much ado about nothing, we need to remember that Hawaii was a foreign country until the late 40's. The initial birth certificate they issued, that Obama used is what is used for all of their citizens. Then when he comes out with the long version, everyone thinks it's photoshopped. Seems to me it's an inane argument to be having we should be arguing

Healthcare
Taxes
Gas
Spending
Oil drilling
Insurance
More Spending
Iraq
Afgahnistan
Libya

And everything else he has done wrong. JMO :beer:
It maybe inane but he could have avoided Birth Certificategate by just producing the damn thing 3 years ago and it would be moot at this point.
It was a valid point IMO, stupid yes but valid. Why the secrecy? It should have been produced even before the election. Aren't there some sort of rules you need to follow to be on the ballot in the first place?

[Motorhead350]

But in your reasoning, we have been spoiled compared to the rest of the world... So that must mean you think our fuel needs to get taxed 3.50+ per gallon because that's what's right? :shake:



I think you're confusing the figuratively "your" with your individual persona. I lumped you in with that crowd because of your first post, which sounded as if you are supporting the subsidies of alternate fuels. If that's not the case, I'm not sure why you would bring up 'future generations who just want transport from a car' and the Bush family that didn't subsidize them because of their ties with big oil.

What do I think manufacturers are gonna emphasize in the future? If government keeps their nose out of it, whatever the population will want. The horsepower race seems to be in full swing right now. That didn't come because of people wanting priuses. I doubt that if you round up all the hybrid sales they would even come close to all 3 pony car sales; let alone other gas guzzlers like the trucks... And it would be even worse for the hybrids if the government hadn't intervened. If the greenies would actually play by the rules, and try to sway the public's opinion about what cars to drive and whatnot, it would be great. However, that's not the case, they're instead trying to legislate a market for their products, by getting congress to use my and your tax dollars whether we like it or not, to pay for part of these things.

Imagine the outrage if the hotrod crowd demanded congress pass a law for the greenies to subsidize drag radials, race gas, and nitrous fillups...

I am all against taxes. I have no idea where you got that from. Do you work for the media? Do you always put words in peoples mouths and say it came from them? :shake:


[QUOTE=prchrman;1039158]I don't understand your joke.


IE, that line of "we are spoiled" is such an over used lefty talking point it is not even funny. Are we spoiled because TVs and house hold appliance prices have not went up? It is a inane statement and has only been used by those that want gas to be taxed enough to set the price at a minimum of $5 a gallon so we use less and therefor lessen our greenhouse gases and therefor avoiding the made up GW (or is that CC now) agenda, you know the hockey stick junk that brother Al and other the sky is falling bunch are making a killing off of. The same bunch that kill babies and save cats, the same bunch that don't want to drill for oil here but want to give our money to people that hate us and will use that money to kill us, the same bunch that do not want to shut our borders but want us to go around the world killing people in their own borders (George Carlin we like to bomb brown people), the same bunch that want to take our guns but will not convict real crimminals, the same bunch who love nature but want to shut down the national park system so no one can see nature. That is the Kool-Aid of which I speak. SORRY, RANT OFF for the rest of 2011.

I'm just saying deal with it. I am not saying I agree with it. You went way off topic BTW which proves you don't have a strong argument. I am all for drilling here. You judgement on me couldn't have been more wrong. You fail as a psychologist.

[rayjay]

It maybe inane but he could have avoided Birth Certificategate by just producing the damn thing 3 years ago and it would be moot at this point.
It was a valid point IMO, stupid yes but valid. Why the secrecy? It should have been produced even before the election. Aren't there some sort of rules you need to follow to be on the ballot in the first place?

Ya be a native born US citizen is one. I guess his grandma was senile when she observed him being born in Kenya.... and what about his illegal alien aunt? Uh, something just ain't kosher about this guy. The rules apply to everyone but him. :rolleyes:

[Mr. Man]

Ya be a native born US citizen is one. I guess his grandma was senile when she observed him being born in Kenya.... and what about his illegal alien aunt? Uh, something just ain't kosher about this guy. The rules apply to everyone but him. :rolleyes:
Welcome to politics:)

[SC Cheesehead]

Welcome to politics:)

"Ooh, I love to dance the little sidestep / Now they see me, now they don't / I've come and gone / And ooh, I love to sweep around a wide step / Cut a little swath / And lead the people on!" -T.B.L.W.I.T., 1982

[tbone]

What was so secretive in the certificate he just released? NOTHING! He purposely concealed it just to be a pain in the butt and make the birthers look crazy for as long as he could. If anyone is to blame for this controversy, it's O'blamo.

[Motorhead350]

So who wants to pull a Fast and Furious 4 with me?

Tommy???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcY7HkvF1aw

[kernie]

What was so secretive in the certificate he just released? NOTHING! He purposely concealed it just to be a pain in the butt and make the birthers look crazy for as long as he could. If anyone is to blame for this controversy, it's O'blamo.

And it worked! :D

[Bluerauder]

What was so secretive in the certificate he just released? NOTHING! He purposely concealed it just to be a pain in the butt and make the birthers look crazy for as long as he could. If anyone is to blame for this controversy, it's O'blamo.

The question should have been resolved BEFORE he was sworn in to prove BOTH citizenship and age. It should have been done for ANYBODY. The fact that it wasn't is enough for concern. The fact that he dragged it out for 27 months is arrogance.

Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the United States Constitution says ....

"Clause 5: Qualifications for office“ No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

[PonyUP]

It maybe inane but he could have avoided Birth Certificategate by just producing the damn thing 3 years ago and it would be moot at this point.
It was a valid point IMO, stupid yes but valid. Why the secrecy? It should have been produced even before the election. Aren't there some sort of rules you need to follow to be on the ballot in the first place?

Well he did produce it, but because it was what is now dubbed as the short version and looked different, everyone doubted the validity. Yes you have to present a birth certificate to even run for President, that is why I think it is an inane argument. It's picking on the guy for the wrong reasons, there ar plenty of right reasons to pick on the guy that have a much larger detriment. We are wasting energy on something that will never be changed.

People could have witnessd his birth in Hawaii, and there will still be doubt. I think it's a Matter of people not liking him, and that is all. I'm just saying apply the energy where it may do some good, not towards an area that you will never ever change

[tbone]

And it worked! :D


I'm not a birther, but Oblamo elongated the controversey intentionally. People like you try to use it against your adversaries. In the end, it is YOU that is the fool.:lol:

[tbone]

Well he did produce it, but because it was what is now dubbed as the short version and looked different, everyone doubted the validity.


"Looked different"? It was all typed! And it was the "short version". Anyone would doubt the validity, especially considering his wierd background. The "long version" is the original with signatures. Big difference. I have no doubt now about him being born here. His allegiance to Christianity and the USA is another story......

[Mr. Man]

Well he did produce it, but because it was what is now dubbed as the short version and looked different, everyone doubted the validity. Yes you have to present a birth certificate to even run for President, that is why I think it is an inane argument. It's picking on the guy for the wrong reasons, there are plenty of right reasons to pick on the guy that have a much larger detriment. We are wasting energy on something that will never be changed.

People could have witnessed his birth in Hawaii, and there will still be doubt. I think it's a Matter of people not liking him, and that is all. I'm just saying apply the energy where it may do some good, not towards an area that you will never ever change

My basic point was like this:

Obama: Hi I'm Senator Obama and I'd like to run for President.

Person from the Official USA Election Office: That's cool. Are you 35 or over?

Obama: Yes

PFTOUSAEO: Do you have an official birth certificate with a raised seal that will confirm American citizenship?

Obama: Yes. Here it is

PFTOUSAEO: Thank you. Your all set.

Doesn't seem like this happened. If it did why didn't the PFTOUSAEO just come out and say Obama filed all the proper paperwork and everything checks out. I'm not sure we've seen the last of Birth Certificaegate

[tbone]

Everything about the man is questionable.THAT'S the point. He is supposed to have the most transparent adminsitration in history but it's filled with radicals and other liberals that have an extreme agenda. And he couldn't even release his original birth certificate for 3 years.

[PonyUP]

Everything about the man is questionable.THAT'S the point. He is supposed to have the most transparent adminsitration in history but it's filled with radicals and other liberals that have an extreme agenda. And he couldn't even release his original birth certificate for 3 years.

that's a great point T. Letting drag on for years when all he had to do was apply for the long version only adds suspicion. But now people are saying it's photoshopped and they need to let it go, cause we have bigger fish to fry with this guy.

Plus one on the radicals, if he would have put some level headed reasonable people around him, perhaps the two parties could have worked together, but in true radical fashion, now all we have is chaos

[prchrman]

I'm just saying deal with it. I am not saying I agree with it. You went way off topic BTW which proves you don't have a strong argument. I am all for drilling here. You judgement on me couldn't have been more wrong. You fail as a psychologist.

"Deal with it", I can deal with it because financially I do pretty good as an engineer, BUT, in my neck of the woods there are many who do not make much and are struggling to make ends meet and when it costs me $50 to fill up a microcube Chev Tracker I know it is knocking the heck out of people who try and live on $8 an hour and feed their family. Rising gas prices also drag heating oil prices with it and that is where I really feel for the poor. Many older folks in my area are staying alot colder in the winter because it costs $1200 to fill their oil barrel now. They are having to cut out so many things and live without so much it is unreal. Many churches and stuff were out this past winter trying to help but at over a thousand bucks a barrel churches cannot do it all. Your "spoiled/deal with it" talk is the very talk I hear on other sites from elitist lefties who pretend to care about the poor but first chance they get they make jokes about trailer trash (where do they think poor people live)? Your statements come across as aloof and out of touch.
I am not a psychologist and do not try to be one. I preach the gospel, it and Jesus is about the extent of my knowledge on how to help people.

[CBT]

I could read your writings all day long.



"Deal with it", I can deal with it because financially I do pretty good as an engineer, BUT, in my neck of the woods there are many who do not make much and are struggling to make ends meet and when it costs me $50 to fill up a microcube Chev Tracker I know it is knocking the heck out of people who try and live on $8 an hour and feed their family. Rising gas prices also drag heating oil prices with it and that is where I really feel for the poor. Many older folks in my area are staying alot colder in the winter because it costs $1200 to fill their oil barrel now. They are having to cut out so many things and live without so much it is unreal. Many churches and stuff were out this past winter trying to help but at over a thousand bucks a barrel churches cannot do it all. Your "spoiled/deal with it" talk is the very talk I hear on other sites from elitist lefties who pretend to care about the poor but first chance they get they make jokes about trailer trash (where do they think poor people live)? Your statements come across as aloof and out of touch.
I am not a psychologist and do not try to be one. I preach the gospel, it and Jesus is about the extent of my knowledge on how to help people.

[sailsmen]

Published: Thursday, 21 Apr 2011 | 2:22 PM ET CNBC
By: Christina Cheddar Berk
The combination of rising gasoline prices and the steepest increase in the cost
of food in a generation is threatening to push the US economy into a
recession, according to Craig Johnson, president of Customer Growth Partners.
Johnson looks at the percentage of income
consumers are spending on gasoline and food
as a way of gauging how consumers will
fare when energy prices spike.
With gas prices now standing at about $3.90 a
gallon, energy costs have now passed 6
percent of spending—a level that Johnson says
is a "tipping point" for consumers.
"Energy is not quite as essential as food and water, but is a necessity in
today's economy, and when gasoline costs more than bottled water—like now
—then it takes a huge bite out of disposable spending," he said, in a research
note.
Of the six US recessions since 1970, all but the "9-11 year 2001 recession"
have been linked to—of not triggered by—energy prices that crossed the 6
percent of personal consumption expenditures, he said. (During the shallow
2001 recession, energy prices had risen to about 5 percent of spending, which
is higher than the long-term 4 percent share.)
What may make matters worse this time around, is there has been a steep
increase in food prices that occurred as well. In other recent recessions food
costs were benign, at between 7.5 percent and 7.8 percent of spending.
This year food prices have climbed 6.5 percent since the beginning of early
January, according to Consumer Growth Partners.
"The combined increase in the necessities of food and energy creates a harsh
double whammy for already stressed consumers," Johnson said. The last time
this happened was in the recession that lasted from 1973 to 1975.
Johnson estimates that food and energy eat up about 15 percent of consumer
spending at today's prices, compared with about 12.7 percent two years ago.
Of course, at lower income levels, these percentages are much higher. One
sign of the stress some consumers are already feeling is that some AAA
offices have already seen an increase in out-of-gas service calls, as motorists
try to put off filling their tanks or drive around trying to seek out the gas
station with the least expensive price.
Also some regions are being hit harder than others. Gas prices in Hawaii
continue to set new highs, according to AAA data. The average price on
Wednesday was $4.51, topping the prior record of $4.50 for a gallon of
regular unleaded set in July 2008.

[JOEMERC]

Obama will never get re-elected ,thank god,enough said.......

[teamrope]

I wish this guy would run in 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP2p91dvm6M)

[PonyUP]

Obama will never get re-elected ,thank god,enough said.......

I'm not so sure, the same thign was said about Bush in 2004, but the best the Dems could come up with was John Kerry, so of course Bush won against that guy.
It's going to depnd on who the Republicans put up, if it's Palin or Trump, we have four more years of Obama, but if they come up with someone who is popular with middle tendencies, they will win in a walk.

Personally, I'd like to see Guilianni give it another go, as a Dem, that is a Republican I could get behind.

[tbone]

Ronald McDonald would be better than Oblamo.

[LIGHTNIN1]

Ronald McDonald would be better than Oblamo.

Throw in Pee Wee Herman for vice president and I think you have a winning team.:D

[Motorhead350]

So you must think I do not have problems living I take it? This effects me too as it effects everyone, but I "deal with it" and keep moving on. Gas cost more so you put money a side on a few things. I still need to eat, so make it myself. I break something I go to a junkyard. Gas is expensive so I take the bus... rarely. There are ways to adjust and deal with it. I am sticking by word and saying we were spoiled. Prices didn't rise up until the past ten years and we have had it cheap for a while DEAL WITH IT.

You are a server for Jesus? Wow good for you. I guess that makes you the better man and you are going to heaven as a result for you kind deeds on earth. Well let me tell you something Mr. Son Of A Preacher Man, I don't help people who follow Jesus, I help everyone. I don't care what their religious view is, what they drive, how old they are or how much money they have. Does that make me the better man? Who knows... I don't care. As far as religion is concerned I see it as the reason for war/death and with no concrete evidence of anything, there is no point. People who just believe what they are told are gullible, those that say "We are the only people that are right and everyone else will go to hell" are so far brainwashed, there is no point to even having a conversation with these people on anything that goes against their beliefs. They will say it's wrong no matter what. That's every religion. No one has been there and back. I might as well just write a book and say everything in it is true and everyone needs to be saved... oh wait it's been done, many times. As long as there is religion there will be war and there will be bloodshed, what a wonderful thing.

I preach nothing, but believing in yourself.


"Deal with it", I can deal with it because financially I do pretty good as an engineer, BUT, in my neck of the woods there are many who do not make much and are struggling to make ends meet and when it costs me $50 to fill up a microcube Chev Tracker I know it is knocking the heck out of people who try and live on $8 an hour and feed their family. Rising gas prices also drag heating oil prices with it and that is where I really feel for the poor. Many older folks in my area are staying alot colder in the winter because it costs $1200 to fill their oil barrel now. They are having to cut out so many things and live without so much it is unreal. Many churches and stuff were out this past winter trying to help but at over a thousand bucks a barrel churches cannot do it all. Your "spoiled/deal with it" talk is the very talk I hear on other sites from elitist lefties who pretend to care about the poor but first chance they get they make jokes about trailer trash (where do they think poor people live)? Your statements come across as aloof and out of touch.
I am not a psychologist and do not try to be one. I preach the gospel, it and Jesus is about the extent of my knowledge on how to help people.

[sailsmen]

What religion were Hitler, Stalin and Mao a member of? Oh that's right they were not a member of any religion.
In the case of Stalin and Mao they executed anyone who practised religion.

Perhaps you should subsitute the word religion for evil or man.

If the founder of the religion was a warrior you will probably have warrior followers.

I don't think Jesus or Buddah were warriors.

[Fosters]

I'm not so sure, the same thign was said about Bush in 2004, but the best the Dems could come up with was John Kerry, so of course Bush won against that guy.
It's going to depnd on who the Republicans put up, if it's Palin or Trump, we have four more years of Obama, but if they come up with someone who is popular with middle tendencies, they will win in a walk.

Personally, I'd like to see Guilianni give it another go, as a Dem, that is a Republican I could get behind.

I highly doubt another middle person would stand a chance, or do any good for the country. A middle person won't cut the budget and regulations like we need, a middle person will just negotiate them... and judging from the right's success with those negotiations, it will be 4 more years of Bush.

[jerrym3]

No politician, left/right, Dem/Rep, male/female, black/white wants high gas prices during an election cycle. The politician's primary goal is re-election. Knowingly pushing energy prices up in a recession is political suicide.

The economy will determine who wins the next election. Combine those who hate Obama, period, with those on the fence but potentially suffering worse due to a continuing economic downturn, and even Elmer Fudd would get elected.

As for religion, I'm an agnostic, my wife goes to church twice per week. We try not to discuss the subject, but sometimes we do. (After almost 45 years of marriage, we've earned the right to discuss "hot topics.)

I've asked a few simple questions.

If a supreme being is responsible for the formation of millions of stars and untold number of planets (where other life must exist somewhere), how can he/she not be able to save an innocent child from an attacker?

I know, he/she has given man free will, but so what? Bend the rules. You're God.

Also, assuming I get invited, what will we be doing in heaven for eternity?

I hope there is something after this all ends, but regardless, I choose to live a good life and not purposely screw my fellow man.

Just living a good life trumps going to a building of brick and stone once per week. And, IMHO, that's what God is more interested in, deeds, not attendance and adoration.

[sailsmen]

Not if you are dedicated to "Hope and Change";
"ARLINGTON, Va., June 12 /Standard Newswire/ -- Today, on the fourth day of Barack Obama's "Change That Works For You" tour, McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds issued the following statement:

"Barack Obama's assertion that the only problem with higher gas prices is that they've gone up too fast -- saying he'd prefer a 'gradual' increase instead -- shows how clearly out of touch he is with Americans struggling with record gas prices. At a time when Americans need relief at the pump, Barack Obama's support for higher gas prices and higher energy taxes is just another example of his weak economic judgment."

This Week In An Interview With CNBC, Barack Obama Said He Would Have Preferred If Higher Gasoline Prices Happened More Gradually:

In An Interview With CNBC, Barack Obama Said He Would Have Preferred A "Gradual" Increase In Gasoline Prices. BARACK OBAMA: "Well, I think that we have been slow to move in a better direction when it comes to energy usage. And the president, frankly, hasn't had an energy policy. And as a consequence, we've been consuming energy as if it's infinite. We now know that our demand is badly outstripping supply with China and India growing as rapidly as they are. So..." HARWOOD: "So could these high prices help us?" BARACK OBAMA: "I think that I would have preferred a gradual adjustment. The fact that this is such a shock to American pocketbooks is not a good thing. But if we take some steps right now to help people make the adjustment, first of all by putting more money into their pockets, but also by encouraging the market to adapt to these new circumstances more quickly, particularly US automakers, then I think ultimately, we can come out o f this stronger and have a more efficient energy policy than we do right now." (CNBC, 6/10/08)

Watch Barack Obama: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gehaf7_TBAs

Barack Obama Has Called For Taxing Coal And Natural Gas -- The Two Largest Sources Of Electricity In America:

Barack Obama Told A Texas Newspaper: "What We Ought To Tax Is Dirty Energy, Like Coal And, To A Lesser Extent, Natural Gas." ("Q&A With Sen. Barack Obama," San Antonio Express-News, 2/19/08)

Coal Is The Largest Source Of Electricity In America, Accounting For Nearly 49 Percent Of U.S. Total Net Generation In 2006. (Energy Information Administration Website, www.eia.doe.gov, Accessed 6/9/08)

"The U.S. Has The World's Largest Coal Reserves, With The Western U.S. Accounting For 55 Percent Of Current U.S. Coal Production." (Energy Information Administration Website, tonto.eia.doe.gov, Accessed 6/9/08)

Natural Gas Is The Second Largest Source Of Electricity In America, Accounting For 20 Percent Of U.S. Total Net Generation In 2006. (Energy Information Administration Website, www.eia.doe.gov, Accessed 6/9/08)

"The U.S. Is The World's Largest Consumer And Second-Largest Producer Of Natural Gas." (Energy Information Administration Website, tonto.eia.doe.gov, Accessed 6/9/08)

Barack Obama Has Called For A $15 Billion A Year Windfall Profits Tax:

Barack Obama Is Proposing A $15 Billion A Year Windfall Profits Tax On Oil Companies. "Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's proposal for a windfall profits tax on oil companies could cost $15 billion a year at last year's profit levels, a campaign adviser said. ... Among the options Illinois Senator Obama is mulling is imposing a 20 percent tax on the cost of a barrel of oil above $80, said [Obama adviser Jason] Grumet, who spoke at a conference in Washington today." (Daniel Whitten, "Obama May Levy $15 Billion Tax On Oil Company Profit," Bloomberg News, 5/1/08)

The Non-Partisan Congressional Research Service Found That The Windfall Profits Tax Reduced Domestic Oil Production And Increased Our Dependence On Foreign Oil By As Much As 13 Percent. "From 1980 to 1988, the WPT may have reduced domestic oil production anywhere from 1.2% to 8.0% (320 to 1,269 million barrels). Dependence on imported oil grew from between 3% and 13%." (Salvatore Lazzari, "The Crude Oil Windfall Profit Tax Of The 1980s: Implications For Current Energy Policy," Congressional Research Service, 3/9/06)

The Tax Reduced Domestic Oil Supply And Increased Demand For Imported Oil. "The WPT had the effect of reducing the domestic supply of crude oil below what the supply would have been without the tax. This increased the demand for imported oil and made the United States more dependent upon foreign oil as compared with dependence without a WPT." (Salvatore Lazzari, "The Crude Oil Windfall Profit Tax Of The 1980s: Implications For Current Energy Policy," Congressional Research Service, 3/9/06)

During The Eight-Year Imposition Of The Windfall Profits Tax, Domestic Oil Output Fell To Its Lowest Level In Two Decades. "Skeptics who want to check the data need to search no further than the eight-year 1980s run of the energy industry windfall profit tax. During that time, domestic oil output fell to its lowest level in two decades." (Editorial, "A Bleak Future," Investor's Business Daily, 5/29/08)

The Wall Street Journal: The Windfall Profits Tax Reduced Domestic Oil Production And Increased Prices At The Pump. "The last time Congress imposed a form of the windfall tax was the final gloomy days of Jimmy Carter, and the result was: a substantial reduction in domestic oil production (about 5%), thus raising the price of gas at the pump; and a 10% increase in U.S. reliance on foreign oil. A windfall profits tax is the ultimate act of economic masochism because it taxes only domestic production, while imports and foreign oil subsidiaries bear almost none of the cost." (Editorial, "Windfall Accounting Tax," The Wall Street Journal, 11/30/05)

Heritage's Ben Lieberman: The Windfall Profits Tax Ended Up Harming Consumers With Increased Energy Prices. "The track record for punitive measures like the windfall profits tax shows that they usually harm consumers along with the targeted industry. ... In the end, the tax hurt consumers more through higher energy prices than it helped them through higher tax revenues, which turned out to be far lower than originally predicted because the tax discouraged production." (Ben Lieberman, "Raising Taxes On Oil Companies Is No Way To Reduce Gas Prices," www.heritage.org, 3/1/06)

[sailsmen]

Obama Plans To Pay For A Number Of His Proposals With The Tax. "The tax would help pay for a $1,000 tax cut for working families, an expansion of the earned- income tax credit and assistance for people who can't afford their energy bills." (Daniel Whitten, "Obama May Levy $15 Billion Tax On Oil Company Profit," Bloomberg News, 5/1/08)

The Congressional Research Service Found That When The Windfall Profits Tax Was Implemented From 1980 To 1988, Gross Revenues Were Significantly Less Than Projected. "The $80 billion in gross revenues generated by the WPT between 1980 and 1988 was significantly less than the $393 billion projected." (Salvatore Lazzari, "The Crude Oil Windfall Profit Tax Of The 1980s: Implications for Current Energy Policy," Congressional Research Service, 3/9/06)

Former Sen. John Breaux (D-LA) Said Obama's Windfall Profits Tax Is Bad Energy Policy; It "Will Produce Less Energy And Not More." MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell: "John Breaux, you are from the oil patch. How do you feel about your candidate talking about a windfall profits tax?" Former Sen. John Breaux (D-LA): "Well a windfall profits tax is not going to produce a single barrel of oil. When we had a windfall profits tax back in the 1980s, we produced less energy than before we had the tax. A windfall profits tax may make you feel good as a punitive measure against the energy companies, but until we get the guys and women who produce the energy working with those that consume it, we are never going to solve the problem. A windfall profits tax will produce less energy and not more." (MSNBC's "MSNBC Live," 6/9/08)

FLASHBACK: Obama Is Following Jimmy Carter's Economic Policies, Supporting Higher Taxes During A Time Of Economic Weakness And Imposing A Windfall Profits Tax:

Carter Raised Taxes During An Economic Decline, Which Further Weakened The Economy. "There were two other occasions in recent American history when government raised taxes going into economic decline. Herbert Hoover tried it in the early 1930s; Jimmy Carter tried it in the late 1970s. Carter was the lucky one: He got 'only' a deep recession, Hoover got the Great Depression." (Editorial, "The Gingrich Recipe," The [Memphis] Commercial Appeal, 9/14/90)

President Carter Urged Congress To Enact A Windfall Profits Tax "Without Delay." President Carter: "These [energy independence] efforts will cost money, a lot of money, and that is why Congress must enact the windfall profits tax without delay. It will be money well spent. Unlike the billions of dollars that we ship to foreign countries to pay for foreign oil, these funds will be paid by Americans to Americans. These funds will go to fight, not to increase, inflation and unemployment." (President Jimmy Carter, Speech, Washington, D.C., 7/15/79)

In The U.S. Senate, Barack Obama Voted For Higher Energy Taxes That Would Have Driven Up The Cost Of Oil And Gas In America:

Obama Voted In Favor Of An Amendment To Add A $32 Billion Tax Hike Package To The CLEAN Energy Act Of 2007. (H.R. 6, CQ Vote #223: Motion Rejected 57-36: R 10-34; D 45-2; I 2-0, 6/21/07, Obama Voted Yea)

The Tax Hike Would Have Hurt Domestic Oil And Gas Manufacturing. "Meanwhile, most of the revenue-raising offsets in the measure would affect the oil and gas industry, which would lose a deduction for domestic manufacturing and face a new tax on operations in the Gulf of Mexico." (Richard Rubin, "Baucus Says Energy Tax Package Can Be Revived, But Details Are Sketchy," Congressional Quarterly Today, 7/10/07)

The Tax Hike Would Have "Contributed To Higher Gasoline Prices." "[The tax increase] would have excessively burdened oil companies that operate in Louisiana and other oil-producing states. It would have discouraged oil exploration, and contributed to higher gasoline prices." (Editorial, "A Sensible Energy Policy," The [New Orleans] Times-Picayune, 6/23/07)

A Heritage Foundation Study Found The Tax Increase Would Have Raised Gas Prices To Over $6 By 2016. "A study by the conservative Heritage Foundation think tank showed that the proposed tax increase would boost the average price of regular unleaded gasoline from $3.14 per gallon to $6.40 in 2016." (S.A. Miller, "Senate Votes To Raise Auto Mileage Standards," The Washington Times, 6/22/07)

Obama Voted At Least 3 Times To Impose A Temporary Windfall Profits Tax On Oil Companies. (S. 2020, CQ Vote #339: Motion Rejected 50-48: R 9-45; D 40-3; I 1-0, 11/17/05, Obama Voted Yea; S. 2020, CQ Vote #331: Motion Rejected 35-64: R 0-55; D 34-9; I 1-0, 11/17/05, Obama Voted Yea; S. 2020, CQ Vote #341: Motion Rejected 33-65: R 0-54; D 32-11; I 1-0, 11/17/05, Obama Voted Yea)

In The Illinois State Senate, Barack Obama Voted To Tax Natural Gas Purchased From Out Of State

In 2003, Obama Voted To Tax Natural Gas Purchases. "Creates the Gas Use Tax Law. Beginning October 1, 2003, imposes a tax upon the privilege of using in this State gas obtained in a purchase of out-of-state gas at the rate of 2.4 cents per therm [sic] or 5% of the purchase price for the billing period, whichever is the lower rate. Amends the Gas Revenue Tax Act to eliminate an exemption on October 1, 2003 and to provide that beginning with bills issued to customers on and after October 1, 2003, no tax is imposed under the Act on transactions with customers who incur a tax liability under the Gas Use Tax Law. Effective October 1, 2003." (S.B. 1733, Bill Status, www.ilga.gov, Accessed 2/11/08; S.B. 1733: Concurrence In House Amendment #4, Passed 31-27-00, 5/31/03, Obama Voted Yea)

The Tax On Natural Gas Purchased Outside Of Illinois Was Estimated To Cost $42 Million Annually To Illinois Businesses, Making It One Of The Largest Increases In Illinois In 2003. "One of the largest increases will be a new 5 percent tax on the sales of natural gas bought from out-of-state suppliers, which could reap $42 million for the state. Virtually every manufacturer in Illinois could face increased costs as a result, business leaders said. But they doubt the increases will produce the revenue Blagojevich is counting on because businesses will move quickly to avoid the new or higher fees and taxes." (John Schmeltzer, "New Taxes And Fees Are Bad For Business, Industrial Leaders Say," Chicago Tribune, 6/2/03)

The Natural Gas Tax Made Natural Gas More Expensive For Industrial Buyers Such As Steel Mills And Other Manufacturers. "The natural gas tax. A new policy under Blagojevich's budget will make natural gas more expensive to industrial buyers. Currently, Illinois offers an exemption on the sales tax paid for natural gas, but the new budget ends that exemption, a move that could become a major expense for steel mills and other factories that use large quantities of natural gas." (Kevin McDermott, "Area Dodged Legislative Hit On Schools, Roads," St. Louis Post-Dispatch, 6/8/03)

The Natural Gas Tax Threatened Jobs At The Same Time That Illinois Was Leading The Nation In Jobs Lost. "Just as harmful to the state's economy are the large taxes on natural gas brought from out-of-state suppliers and the rolling stock sales tax. Both of these taxes will negatively affect important businesses as well as the employees who are dependent on these Illinois companies. I have received phone calls and letters from all sectors of the business community who reported that the projected loss of revenues due to these increased taxes and fees may well cause them to close their facilities in Illinois and move to a more business-friendly surrounding state while still serving Illinois customers. Illinois leads the nation in jobs lost. We cannot afford to drive more businesses from our state." (State Rep. Carolyn Krause, Op-Ed, "Increase Tax Incentives, Not Taxes For Businesses," Chicago Tribune, 6/13/03) "

[Vortex]

Ever notice every time gas prices get up around $4 a gallon and oil industry profits are announced what commercials do you see? Its always the ones with the earnest folks saying we shouldnt raise the tax the oil industry. They did the exact same thing a couple of years ago. What they are afraid of is a windfall profits tax. Im for a healthy oil industry and support drilling generally but when oil industry profits go sky high based on Wall St speculators I get mad. There is currenty a glut of crude oil on the market; all this gouging is based on speculation. Just had to vent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windfall_profits_tax

[rayjay]

Ever notice every time gas prices get up around $4 a gallon and oil industry profits are announced what commercials do you see? Its always the ones with the earnest folks saying we shouldnt raise the tax the oil industry. They did the exact same thing a couple of years ago. What they are afraid of is a windfall profits tax. Im for a healthy oil industry and support drilling generally but when oil industry profits go sky high based on Wall St speculators I get mad. There is currenty a glut of crude oil on the market; all this gouging is based on speculation. Just had to vent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windfall_profits_tax

Let me vent with you :censor::censor::censor: :mad2::mad2::mad2:

[SC Cheesehead]

Ever notice every time gas prices get up around $4 a gallon and oil industry profits are announced what commercials do you see? Its always the ones with the earnest folks saying we shouldnt raise the tax the oil industry. They did the exact same thing a couple of years ago. What they are afraid of is a windfall profits tax. Im for a healthy oil industry and support drilling generally but when oil industry profits go sky high based on Wall St speculators I get mad. There is currenty a glut of crude oil on the market; all this gouging is based on speculation. Just had to vent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windfall_profits_tax

What constitutes "windfall?" Oil industry profit margins are historically in the 4% to 8% range, is that considered excessive?

As has been pointed out numerous times, the cost of crude oil is the largest single component in the cost of a gallon of gas, followed by taxes (approx 85% of the cost of a gallon).

http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Gasoline-price-breakdown.png (http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/2011/01/13/what-makes-up-the-price-of-u-s-gasoline/gasoline-price-breakdown/)

It stands to reason that the more a barrel of crude costs, the more a gallon of gas will cost, and that's historically how things have tracked.

http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Crude-and-Gasoline-Prices-420x274.png (http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/2011/01/13/what-makes-up-the-price-of-u-s-gasoline/crude-and-gasoline-prices/)

Keep the cost of crude down, gas prices will align accordingly. Lots of factors lead to increases in crude oil costs, and as for speculators, the largest single factor that leads to higher futures cost: uncertainty.

More uncertainty = higher speculative pricing.

Gotta admit, with the current state of the economy, national debt, turmoil in the Mideast, and an apparent inflationary trend, we've got LOTS of uncertainty...

[LIGHTNIN1]

http://www.minnesotansforglobalwarmin g.com/m4gw/2011/04/epa-shuts-down-drilling-in-alaska.html

Things like this are hidden cost to a gallon of gas that the public does not think about. The cost of dealing with government regulations are part of what we are paying for. It seems that the precious metals industry is making record profits and I don't here any complaints about that.

[Krytin]

http://www.minnesotansforglobalwarmin g.com/m4gw/2011/04/epa-shuts-down-drilling-in-alaska.html

Things like this are hidden cost to a gallon of gas that the public does not think about. The cost of dealing with government regulations are part of what we are paying for. It seems that the precious metals industry is making record profits and I don't here any complaints about that.

I don't need gold, silver or platinum to get to work...but the precious metals industry isn't getting tax rebates either!

Existing regulations have nothing to do with the artificially high price of crude - Wall Street Weasels are driving the prices up because they can!

Over the last 30 years all of the regulations that were put in place to prevent another "Great Depression" of the last century were systematically removed by Democrats and Rebublicans alike for $$'s from the Wall Street Weasels! And what did we get??

Keep watching Fox News - reality for stupid people.

[kernie]

I don't need gold, silver or platinum to get to work...but the precious metals industry isn't getting tax rebates either!

Existing regulations have nothing to do with the artificially high price of crude - Wall Street Weasels are driving the prices up because they can!

Over the last 30 years all of the regulations that were put in place to prevent another "Great Depression" of the last century were systematically removed by Democrats and Rebublicans alike for $$'s from the Wall Street Weasels! And what did we get??

Keep watching Fox News - reality for stupid people.

Even worse is late night AM radio, i get bored at work sometimes, AM radio signals do a wierd arc and i pick up all these Virginia area stations. What a bunch of right wing crackpots you find here! I keep hearing the same crapola spewed here like defence of the oil industry. Just repeating it here, like robots. The president bashing is shamefull.

:help:

[SC Cheesehead]

I don't need gold, silver or platinum to get to work...but the precious metals industry isn't getting tax rebates either!

Existing regulations have nothing to do with the artificially high price of crude - Wall Street Weasels are driving the prices up because they can!

Over the last 30 years all of the regulations that were put in place to prevent another "Great Depression" of the last century were systematically removed by Democrats and Rebublicans alike for $$'s from the Wall Street Weasels! And what did we get??

Keep watching Fox News - reality for stupid people.


Even worse is late night AM radio, i get bored at work sometimes, AM radio signals do a wierd arc and i pick up all these Virginia area stations. What a bunch of right wing crackpots you find here! I keep hearing the same crapola spewed here like defence of the oil industry. Just repeating it here, like robots. The president bashing is shamefull.

:help:

So, should we try and regulate the cost of crude oil? That worked out real well for us back in the early 70's...:rolleyes:

[4play]

Just to let everyone know, gas here in Edmonton Alberta gas just jumped to 4.78 per gallon (American dollars) and the gas is refined 5 miles from where I live. and were still on the cheaper side of canada.

[Fosters]

Just to let everyone know, gas here in Edmonton Alberta gas just jumped to 4.78 per gallon (American dollars) and the gas is refined 5 miles from where I live. and were still on the cheaper side of canada.

That's nice, but we're not trying to become Canada or Europe.

[Blk Mamba]

I don't think there is sound reasoning why prices for gasoline vary by .60-.70 a gallon, from local, to local.

[1 Bad Merc]

We need to get away from this free market open capitalist outlook on the Oil Market because that vision is not what is going on here. The Oil Companies (due to our self imposed regulations) do not have alot of competition to compete against here in the US so they have no interest in building new refineries, keeping the oil from Alaska in the US (instead of selling it to Japan), etc., etc. etc. They are not worried about upgrading their facilities or looking at ways to find/refine new crude oil sources in the States. They really do not have any incentives to do these things as they are living pretty comfortably and making alot of money with the way the system is now.

A real free market economy approach in a real free society would have people putting in their own oil rigs (once the per barrel price reached a certain height) and opening up their own gas refineries. Because we have legislated away our rights their is no market pressure for these Oil Monopolies to do anything. It is sickening to see how we allowed ourselves to be sold down the river by the powers that be.

Free markets and free trade are great concepts and work when the playing field is level for all. But once you start tinkering with it and grandfathering in certain people/companies/countries and adding in extra rules you now have artificially manipulated the market and the results are going to be skewed. It just so happens that we put ourselves on the roasting spit and we are now not liking it as we are getting burned!

[RF Overlord]

Merging this thread with the other one exactly like it.

[SC Cheesehead]

We need to get away from this free market open capitalist outlook on the Oil Market because that vision is not what is going on here. The Oil Companies (due to our self imposed regulations) do not have alot of competition to compete against here in the US so they have no interest in building new refineries, keeping the oil from Alaska in the US (instead of selling it to Japan), etc., etc. etc. They are not worried about upgrading their facilities or looking at ways to find/refine new crude oil sources in the States. They really do not have any incentives to do these things as they are living pretty comfortably and making alot of money with the way the system is now.

A real free market economy approach in a real free society would have people putting in their own oil rigs (once the per barrel price reached a certain height) and opening up their own gas refineries. Because we have legislated away our rights their is no market pressure for these Oil Monopolies to do anything. It is sickening to see how we allowed ourselves to be sold down the river by the powers that be.

Free markets and free trade are great concepts and work when the playing field is level for all. But once you start tinkering with it and grandfathering in certain people/companies/countries and adding in extra rules you now have artificially manipulated the market and the results are going to be skewed. It just so happens that we put ourselves on the roasting spit and we are now not liking it as we are getting burned!

Ahhhh, let's just say I, for one don't agree with this.

Did you see the article on Shell's decision to walk away from a $2.6 billion investment in Alaska because of gov't :bs:; the EPA is concerned about the evironmental impact of the emmissions from an ice breaker on a town over 70 miles away from the proposed drilling site. :mad2:

And what about the gov't moratorium on offshore drilling in the Gulf, the oil companies are begging to resume exploration and drilling, but can't, due to the moratorium. Not only that, but expansion of oil production along the Gulf Coast would create thousands of jobs, right now, in what is a very sluggish economy, but the government agenda is focused on creating "green" jobs that will take years (if ever) to develop.

We have MILLIONS of barrels of oil in deposits within the borders of the US, but the government is forcing us (as in U.S.) to rely on foreign suppliers, the majority of which are in nations that do not have American interests in mind, because they think we should be using less oil, and if they can get it so :censor: expensive that it becomes unaffordable, they reason we'll be forced into using alternative energy sources, whether we want them or not (e.g. electric cars).

As for building new refineries, one hasn't been built since the 70's; any guess as to why? Try applying for the necessary permits and you'd be stopped cold, by governmental agencies.

See a "tinkering" trend here? I do, and it's not one associated with the oil companies.

[Motorhead350]

What religion were Hitler, Stalin and Mao a member of? Oh that's right they were not a member of any religion.
In the case of Stalin and Mao they executed anyone who practised religion.

Perhaps you should subsitute the word religion for evil or man.

If the founder of the religion was a warrior you will probably have warrior followers.

I don't think Jesus or Buddah were warriors.

Your example has to do with religion, not a bunch on non believers. It's the same thing "My way or your wrong." If there was no religion, then there would be no killing over it because it wouldn't be around to begin with. Killing someone for not believing in God is the same as killing for believing in a different God... so to say. In the end in the same war, belief against belief.

If religion was a warrior I would have warrior followers? I think you meant the religion itself would have warrior followers. I suppose like anything. Greenpiece, P.E.T.A. all have active people fighting for their cause, the only difference is we can see what they believe it.

Jesus and Buddah weren't warriors? Well let's say they actually did exist (not saying they didn't, just no proof in my eyes) I would agree they didn't impose violence. So it's been told, but who knows? No one knows. I'm open to listen, but everytime it's someone turning to a book. The book doesn't do the trick for me. Show me something.

Back on topic here.

Ummmmm gas is $4.50 for 93 in the suburbs. $4.85 a few blocks from me. I wonder when $5.50 will kick in.

[Motorhead350]

Ahhhh, let's just say I, for one don't agree with this.

Did you see the article on Shell's decision to walk away from a $2.6 billion investment in Alaska because of gov't :bs:; the EPA is concerned about the evironmental impact of the emmissions from an ice breaker on a town over 70 miles away from the proposed drilling site. :mad2:

And what about the gov't moratorium on offshore drilling in the Gulf, the oil companies are begging to resume exploration and drilling, but can't, due to the moratorium. Not only that, but expansion of oil production along the Gulf Coast would create thousands of jobs, right now, in what is a very sluggish economy, but the government agenda is focused on creating "green" jobs that will take years (if ever) to develop.

We have MILLIONS of barrels of oil in deposits within the borders of the US, but the government is forcing us (as in U.S.) to rely on foreign suppliers, the majority of which are in nations that do not have American interests in mind, because they think we should be using less oil, and if they can get it so :censor: expensive that it becomes unaffordable, they reason we'll be forced into using alternative energy sources, whether we want them or not (e.g. electric cars).

As for building new refineries, one hasn't been built since the 70's; any guess as to why? Try applying for the necessary permits and you'd be stopped cold, by governmental agencies.

See a "tinkering" trend here? I do, and it's not one associated with the oil companies.

That really pisses me off. :mad2:

So if we elect a president that doesn't wanna go green we can CHANGE this? I think I am voting this time around, BUT these agreements might be under contract, which I am sure they are. So even if we get another quack in office who knows if we can change these agreements. We can always go after another land I suppose. Or play with the contract and offer someone more money. Either way, it can be done.

[PonyUP]

This whole subject is a loaded subject. There are so many factors that enter into why gas is high. As sailsmen stated the devalue of the dollar and oil as a commodity has a large impact.

I'm no fan of oil companies, but we need to stop pasting them as the bad guy because they make 5% profit (in most business circles this margin of profit would be considered a failed business)

When we make it more difficult for oil companies to drill here in the states (gov oversite, EPA, a green agenda, possible removal of oil subsidies and now talk of a "windfall tax"), they will move their business elsewhere like so many companies. When it costs companies too much money to do buisness here, they move their resources to other countries (hello, call centers anyone?) Anyone notice the incredible decline in "made in America"? It's because it's cheaper to make it China and increase profits.

The only gov oversite in oil drilling should be for safety regulations and fair work practices, and yes they should be subsidised so that it is enticing to drill here and make our own oil supply.

And for what it's worth, stop pasting everyone that watches Fox news as morons. They aren't. They believe something different then you and they found a network to speak as their voice. Did we forget what America is about, it is the right for people to be heard.

I don't agree with everything on Fox news, and yes I hear a lot of things there that anger me. But I also hear a lot of good thoughts and in the end whether you are Republican or Dem, both parties have the best of the country (well and their wallet) in mind. They just have different beiliefs on what that is. How can we expect the politicians to respect others points of view, when we can't even do it here.

[LIGHTNIN1]

Ahhhh, let's just say I, for one don't agree with this.

Did you see the article on Shell's decision to walk away from a $2.6 billion investment in Alaska because of gov't :bs:; the EPA is concerned about the evironmental impact of the emmissions from an ice breaker on a town over 70 miles away from the proposed drilling site. :mad2:

And what about the gov't moratorium on offshore drilling in the Gulf, the oil companies are begging to resume exploration and drilling, but can't, due to the moratorium. Not only that, but expansion of oil production along the Gulf Coast would create thousands of jobs, right now, in what is a very sluggish economy, but the government agenda is focused on creating "green" jobs that will take years (if ever) to develop.

We have MILLIONS of barrels of oil in deposits within the borders of the US, but the government is forcing us (as in U.S.) to rely on foreign suppliers, the majority of which are in nations that do not have American interests in mind, because they think we should be using less oil, and if they can get it so :censor: expensive that it becomes unaffordable, they reason we'll be forced into using alternative energy sources, whether we want them or not (e.g. electric cars).

As for building new refineries, one hasn't been built since the 70's; any guess as to why? Try applying for the necessary permits and you'd be stopped cold, by governmental agencies.

See a "tinkering" trend here? I do, and it's not one associated with the oil companies.

But you sir have forgotten as it has been said by another poster that there are no, I repeat no, government regulations on oil companies.No regulations, laws, permits to be had,no EPA or environmental rules to go by. They are the one American industry that has free rein to do anything they want. You wonder why they spend billions to find new oil fields and then don't refine it. Just to be funny, maybe. Sure am glad to find out the truth. Whew!!

[4play]

Aperently alot of canada's oil makes it down to texas for refinment, depending who gets elected in the election coming up here will affect suncore and syncrude (oil sands) NDP wants to tax the Heck out of the oil companies which will put an end to the expantion of the plants, hopefully Harper stays in power so taxes stay low, but if NDP come into power expect 6.00+ per gallon in a few years.. or sooner.

[SC Cheesehead]

But you sir have forgotten as it has been said by another poster that there are no, I repeat no, government regulations on oil companies.No regulations, laws, permits to be had,no EPA or environmental rules to go by. They are the one American industry that has free rein to do anything they want. You wonder why they spend billions to find new oil fields and then don't refine it. Just to be funny, maybe. Sure am glad to find out the truth. Whew!!


There are no regulations or laws on oil companies?

They do not have to abide by EPA or environmental rules?

They can do anything they want?

Okay. Somebody better tell the folks at Shell, BP, et al, I don't think they got the memo... :rolleyes:

[LIGHTNIN1]

There are no regulations or laws on oil companies?

They do not have to abide by EPA or environmental rules?

They can do anything they want?

Okay. Somebody better tell the folks at Shell, BP, et al, I don't think they got the memo... :rolleyes:

Refer to Post 151 above. That is what I was told there.

[tbone]

Even worse is late night AM radio, i get bored at work sometimes, AM radio signals do a wierd arc and i pick up all these Virginia area stations. What a bunch of right wing crackpots you find here! I keep hearing the same crapola spewed here like defence of the oil industry. Just repeating it here, like robots. The president bashing is shamefull.

:help:

Any specifc examples of "right wing crapola" or just the general demonizing of anyone that disagrees with your liberal agenda? Ask me, I will give you hundreds of examples of liberal bias.

Really, I will post it. Just ask.

[sailsmen]

I don't need gold, silver or platinum to get to work...but the precious metals industry isn't getting tax rebates either!

Existing regulations have nothing to do with the artificially high price of crude - Wall Street Weasels are driving the prices up because they can!

Over the last 30 years all of the regulations that were put in place to prevent another "Great Depression" of the last century were systematically removed by Democrats and Rebublicans alike for $$'s from the Wall Street Weasels! And what did we get??

Keep watching Fox News - reality for stupid people.

So WS is causing the Fed Gov't to print money and borrowing 40% of every dollar the Fed Gov't spends while raising the Public Debt in 5 years from 37% of GDP to 67%? Tax Rebates? You mean like Shell paying the Fed Gov't $2,000,000,000 for an oil lease that the Fed Gov't won't let them drill on due to air emission from an ice breaker with the nearest village 70 miles away consisting of 254 people?

Perhaps the problem is too many people are "hoarding" gold and Pres Obama should issue the same executive order FDR did confiscating everyones Gold for 70% of it's worth? That regulation worked to end the GD didn't it? Or perhaps the regulation that exempted companies that agreed to unionization to be exempt from anti trust so they could collude on prices?

"The answer to the first question is that over the past 25 years, oil companies directly paid or remitted more than $2.2 trillion in taxes, after adjusting for inflation, to federal and state governments—including excise taxes, royalty payments and state and federal corporate income taxes. That amounts to more than three times what they earned in profits during the same period, according to the latest numbers from the Bureau of Economic Analysis and U.S. Department of Energy."
Figure 1 illustrates the magnitude of government tax collections versus industry profits between 1977 and 2004. During this period, the 29 largest domestic energy firms earned a collective $630 billion after adjusting for inflation. These profits varied dramatically—from a low of $7.9 billion in 1995 to a high of $42.6 billion in 2004—based upon world market demand, supply, and international events.

In contrast, the taxes paid or remitted by domestic oil companies have been consistently far greater than their profits and now total more than $2.2 trillion (adjusted for inflation) over the past quarter century. The largest share of those taxes is federal and state gasoline excise taxes. In 2004, governments collected $58 billion in gasoline excise taxes. Overall, governments have collected $1.34 trillion in gasoline excise taxes since 1977.

Today, U.S. consumers pay an average of 45.9 cents per gallon in gasoline taxes. The federal gasoline excise tax is 18.4 cents per gallon while the average state and local tax is 27.5 cents. The vast majority of these taxes are levied at a flat rate per gallon—regardless of whether a gallon of gas costs $1.49, $2.49, or $3.49. Thus, the effective rate of these taxes can vary wildly, from roughly 31 percent in the former case to 13 percent in the later.

Federal and state governments also collect a substantial amount of excise tax from the sale of diesel fuel. In today’s dollars, governments have collected $160 billion in diesel fuel excise taxes since 1977.

Oil companies also pay taxes to governments for the right to extract oil from public lands and waters. For example, the federal government has collected a total of $48.8 billion in royalty payments from oil companies in exchange for their ability to explore and drill in the U.S. outer continental shelf. Oil companies also pay severance taxes to state governments for the right to drill on state lands. Unfortunately, complete data on state severance tax collections for the period is not available at this time.

In contrast to excise taxes, corporate income tax payments vary as widely as industry profits. As mentioned above, domestic energy companies earned a total of $630 billion in post-tax profits between 1977 and 2004. Tax Foundation economists estimate that companies paid $518 billion in corporate income taxes to federal and state governments during the same period. These payments varied from a low of $5.1 billion in 1995 to a high of $40.4 billion in 1981.


Tax Foundation http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1168.html

[sailsmen]

On average Oil Cos make 4% profit on gasoline. 4% at $4.00 per gallon is 16 cents vs the 45.9 cent gasoline tax Gov't charges. Who is the PROFITEER, who is the GREEDY?

[sailsmen]

The Federal Gov't is spending $25,200 per worker in the USA. When you go to work before you take your first breath you must over come that $25,200 expenditure per worker that the Federal Gov't is spending.

It is the hurdle you must leap before you can produce wealth.

[1 Bad Merc]

Ahhhh, let's just say I, for one don't agree with this.

Did you see the article on Shell's decision to walk away from a $2.6 billion investment in Alaska because of gov't :bs:; the EPA is concerned about the evironmental impact of the emmissions from an ice breaker on a town over 70 miles away from the proposed drilling site. :mad2:

And what about the gov't moratorium on offshore drilling in the Gulf, the oil companies are begging to resume exploration and drilling, but can't, due to the moratorium. Not only that, but expansion of oil production along the Gulf Coast would create thousands of jobs, right now, in what is a very sluggish economy, but the government agenda is focused on creating "green" jobs that will take years (if ever) to develop.

We have MILLIONS of barrels of oil in deposits within the borders of the US, but the government is forcing us (as in U.S.) to rely on foreign suppliers, the majority of which are in nations that do not have American interests in mind, because they think we should be using less oil, and if they can get it so :censor: expensive that it becomes unaffordable, they reason we'll be forced into using alternative energy sources, whether we want them or not (e.g. electric cars).

As for building new refineries, one hasn't been built since the 70's; any guess as to why? Try applying for the necessary permits and you'd be stopped cold, by governmental agencies.

See a "tinkering" trend here? I do, and it's not one associated with the oil companies.

Offshore drilling was stopped because the companies involved took alot of shortcuts and the government's monitors were not monitoring anything. So now that we have the oil spill the government feels that they have to show the public they are doing something. I believe only new drilling was stopped but older drilling is still continuing. I could be wrong but this is what I was told.

The oil companies dont want to chase after the crude oil here in North America because it is harder and more expensive type of oil to get and refine. It is easier and cheaper for them to buy sweet saudi oil (which is a lighter type of oil) ship it in and then refine it here. They could easily restart some of the domestic US oil fields but it is cheaper/less hassle for them to look elsewhere.

The bad part about the Shell oil deal is that none of that Oil was to be used domesticly here in the States. It is to replace the oil from the Alaska pipeline as that oil field is being used up. Most of the Alaskan oil is sold and shipped overseas.

I know a couple of oil people and during dinner conversations it was mentioned that they could easily build some new refineries here in the States but they just dont want to deal with the NIMBY people or the Government. They will have to deal with all kinds of lawsuits and such and why should they. Look at the Yucca (SP) Mountain Nuclear waste repository that was shut down because of people complaining about it. This was in an area were there are hardly any people at all but the goverment abandoned it instead of fighting it out in court.

Yes...government permits for a refinery with the EPA take a minimum of 5 years (if your lucky) to complete but the Oil Companies were some of the sponsors of these bills. What better way to keep other companies from coming into the states or startups from competing against you. As it is right now they do not have any real small players in this arena and have a virtual monopoly on refining gasoline, diesel and other chemical products in the States. What hurt the Oil Companies was when the government decided to do more and forced them to make a summer and winter blend of gasoline. These old plants dont like to be shut down and they have to do it to switch the blends. This is when you hear about the plant explosions and other accidents happening.

What I am waiting to see is if some foreign oil companies will start shipping some refined gasoline into the States now and try to sell it here. Gas is starting to get high enough in cost were it might be feasible for someone to come in and try it.

We the People (US Government ) did alot of this tinkering. But if you believe the poor Oil companies are blameless in our current situation then you are just kidding yourself.

[1 Bad Merc]

So WS is causing the Fed Gov't to print money and borrowing 40% of every dollar the Fed Gov't spends while raising the Public Debt in 5 years from 37% of GDP to 67%? Tax Rebates? You mean like Shell paying the Fed Gov't $2,000,000,000 for an oil lease that the Fed Gov't won't let them drill on due to air emission from an ice breaker with the nearest village 70 miles away consisting of 254 people?

Perhaps the problem is too many people are "hoarding" gold and Pres Obama should issue the same executive order FDR did confiscating everyones Gold for 70% of it's worth? That regulation worked to end the GD didn't it? Or perhaps the regulation that exempted companies that agreed to unionization to be exempt from anti trust so they could collude on prices?

"The answer to the first question is that over the past 25 years, oil companies directly paid or remitted more than $2.2 trillion in taxes, after adjusting for inflation, to federal and state governments—including excise taxes, royalty payments and state and federal corporate income taxes. That amounts to more than three times what they earned in profits during the same period, according to the latest numbers from the Bureau of Economic Analysis and U.S. Department of Energy."
Figure 1 illustrates the magnitude of government tax collections versus industry profits between 1977 and 2004. During this period, the 29 largest domestic energy firms earned a collective $630 billion after adjusting for inflation. These profits varied dramatically—from a low of $7.9 billion in 1995 to a high of $42.6 billion in 2004—based upon world market demand, supply, and international events.

In contrast, the taxes paid or remitted by domestic oil companies have been consistently far greater than their profits and now total more than $2.2 trillion (adjusted for inflation) over the past quarter century. The largest share of those taxes is federal and state gasoline excise taxes. In 2004, governments collected $58 billion in gasoline excise taxes. Overall, governments have collected $1.34 trillion in gasoline excise taxes since 1977.

Today, U.S. consumers pay an average of 45.9 cents per gallon in gasoline taxes. The federal gasoline excise tax is 18.4 cents per gallon while the average state and local tax is 27.5 cents. The vast majority of these taxes are levied at a flat rate per gallon—regardless of whether a gallon of gas costs $1.49, $2.49, or $3.49. Thus, the effective rate of these taxes can vary wildly, from roughly 31 percent in the former case to 13 percent in the later.

Federal and state governments also collect a substantial amount of excise tax from the sale of diesel fuel. In today’s dollars, governments have collected $160 billion in diesel fuel excise taxes since 1977.

Oil companies also pay taxes to governments for the right to extract oil from public lands and waters. For example, the federal government has collected a total of $48.8 billion in royalty payments from oil companies in exchange for their ability to explore and drill in the U.S. outer continental shelf. Oil companies also pay severance taxes to state governments for the right to drill on state lands. Unfortunately, complete data on state severance tax collections for the period is not available at this time.

In contrast to excise taxes, corporate income tax payments vary as widely as industry profits. As mentioned above, domestic energy companies earned a total of $630 billion in post-tax profits between 1977 and 2004. Tax Foundation economists estimate that companies paid $518 billion in corporate income taxes to federal and state governments during the same period. These payments varied from a low of $5.1 billion in 1995 to a high of $40.4 billion in 1981.


Tax Foundation http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1168.html


The oil companies dont pay those taxes out of their profits-we do! That money we pay on gasoline taxes is added on top of the price of gasoline and the oil companies' profit. This is just a usury tax/hidden tax that the states, local government use to gain more revenue from us. Supposedly the money is to be used on road rehab/construction but most of the money the States collect happens to end up in other accounts.

The oil companies act like a big IRS Agency and collect the tax money from us and hands it directly over to these government entities. This is not something that hurts the Oil Companies and they do not pay these taxes out of their own pockets/profits. So to say the Oil companies pay these taxes is very disingenous.

[sailsmen]

Obviously the end payer pays the tax on all products and services. When the USA Gov't has the highest or second highest corporate tax in the World, corporations will and are going else where because it costs them too much to be in the USA.

"state and federal corporate income taxes" are not the same taxes other coporations pay? There is also the lease sale payment and royalty plust taxes on each barrel of oil. There is nothing disengenuous about my statement.

By EO only 30% of road taxes go to roads, something the Pres could by EO change back to 100%.

When GM pays taxes, ohh thats right the IRS gave them a unique ruling that exempts the first $48 billion in profits from taxes, when GM eventually pays taxes using your logic it does not come out of their profits they are just as you say a "collector".

"Offshore drilling was stopped because the companies involved took alot of shortcuts and the government's monitors were not monitoring anything. So now that we have the oil spill the government feels that they have to show the public they are doing something. I believe only new drilling was stopped but older drilling is still continuing. I could be wrong but this is what I was told."

Oil cos took short cuts in the Gulf that is incorrect. IT was BP who took the short cuts. Proof 28,000 wells drilled in the Gulf and 2 blow outs. Who can match that safety record. You are incorrect there is no continuation of "old drilling" in the GOM. In one year only one permit has been issued and that was to resume drilling at a well that was in place before the moratorium.

"The oil companies dont want to chase after the crude oil here in North America because it is harder and more expensive type of oil to get and refine. It is easier and cheaper for them to buy sweet saudi oil (which is a lighter type of oil) ship it in and then refine it here. They could easily restart some of the domestic US oil fields but it is cheaper/less hassle for them to look elsewhere."


Some of the lightest oil in the Wolrd is LA Crude, the transportation costs far out weigh any additional refinning costs. Why did Shell invest $4 billion to invest in one lease in the USA?

The bad part about the Shell oil deal is that none of that Oil was to be used domesticly here in the States. It is to replace the oil from the Alaska pipeline as that oil field is being used up. Most of the Alaskan oil is sold and shipped overseas.

7-7-2008 "Despite the opening of new fields, oil production in Alaska has steadily declined in recent years. The amount flowing through the trans-Alaska pipeline has fallen from a high of more than 2 million barrels a day in 1988 to 740,000 barrels a day in 2007, according to the Alyeska Pipeline Service Co.
After-tax profits go to the oil companies and royalties go to resource owners - mainly the state of Alaska, whose budget relies heavily on the money from oil production. About $2 billion in oil royalties went into the state's general fund this past year.
Other resource owners include the federal government and private landowners - parties that generally support drilling in ANWR because it would add to the dwindling supplies of the state's existing oil fields.
The crude oil that flows down the 800-mile pipeline is picked up by tankers in the port of Valdez. According to state officials, the bulk of the crude is transported to West Coast refineries, with a small percentage remaining in Alaska and an unknown amount going overseas.According to the CIA's World Factbook, the U.S. exported 1.048 million barrels of crude per day in 2004 - which amounts to about 12 percent of domestic production - and imported 13.15 million barrels a day that same year. It's unclear how much of the exported oil originated in Alaska.
A group of oil companies paid for the pipeline to be built in the late 1970s at a cost of $8 billion. Interest holdings in the pipeline have changed hands several times and today three companies own much of the pipeline and most of Alaska's oil leases: BP PLC, Exxon Mobil Corp. and ConocoPhillips.
Jeannette J. Lee
AP Business Writer
Anchorage, Alaska"

I know a couple of oil people and during dinner conversations it was mentioned that they could easily build some new refineries here in the States but they just dont want to deal with the NIMBY people or the Government. They will have to deal with all kinds of lawsuits and such and why should they.

Incorrect. Shell looked at building a new refinery and the costs is double what they can build for else where. IT is the Gov't not the oil cos that demand multiple blends of fuel. The last refinery that was built was 1976 and a firm I was an owner of provided services to this refinery. This is a side issue becasue it is the cost of crude that is driving the pirce not a lack of refineries.

"easily build some new refineries" - Very curious as to what your definition of hard is?

What other product can you buy from as many different outlets and brands as gasoline, which has a whopping 4% profit margin for the oil cos. Today gasoline is a by product of the refining process. The profits are in all the other products yielded during the refining process.

I suggest you persue additional sources of information.

[sailsmen]

Do Corporate Taxes Matter???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

USA is 35% plus applicable State Corp Tax and Singapore is 17%.
Country - USA Widget Singapore Widget
Profit - $100 $100
Tax - $ 35 $ 17
Net Profit - $65 $ 83
Difference - $18 or 28%. higher

What do businesses do with Profits? They;
Reinvest in the company rsulting in more jobs
Pay Bonuses which result in higher income taxes
Pay Dividend which result in higher income taxes
Pay down Debt.

Why invest or make money in the USA when you can get a 28% higher return resulting in a more competitve viable company just on the tax?
Is it any wonder the USA has the highest Corporate tax in the World?

When you hear the effective tax rate, meaning the rate that is actually paid ask if that data also includes the Corps taxed as individuals. You may recall in recent news that most Corps do not pay tax. That is becasue most Corps have elected to be taxed as an individual. This means the income flows from the Corp to the individual and is taxed as income to the individual. Also if a Corp has no income or profits it pays no income or prpofit tax.

[sailsmen]

2-28-11
NEW YORK — The U.S. has approved the first deepwater drilling permit in the Gulf of Mexico since BP's massive oil spill.

The Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, Regulation and Enforcement announced Monday that it issued a permit to Noble Energy Inc. to continue work on its Santiago well about 70 miles southeast of Venice, La. Drilling will resume nearly one year after BP's blowout created the worst offshore spill in U.S. history.

Noble started drilling the well four days before the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded on April 20. The project was put on hold on June 12 after the U.S. placed a moratorium on exploration in waters deeper than 500 feet.

No new deepwater permits had been issued since the moratorium was lifted in October. Regulators have been under pressure from the oil industry and some lawmakers to get drilling projects started again in the Gulf while ensuring that new safeguards are in place. That pressure increased last week as the price of oil spiked above $100 per barrel and the price of gasoline hit its highest level in two and a half years.

Environmental groups want the government to hold off on permits and force oil companies to further study the effects of drilling on fragile marine habitats.

At 6,500 feet below the surface, Noble's well is deeper than BP's blown out Macondo well. In a worst-case scenario, the company told regulators its well could spill nearly 3 million gallons of oil per day into the Gulf. At its peak, the BP well spilled 2.6 million gallons per day.

Noble had drilled to a depth of 13,585 feet before the moratorium and has about 5,400 feet to go.

The permit is for a "bypass" well, which allows the driller to take a slightly different path than previously expected. Drilling is expected to recommence in April.

[sailsmen]

1 Bad Merc - "It is easier and cheaper for them to buy sweet saudi oil (which is a lighter type of oil) ship it in and then refine it here."

Wikki - "Sweet crude oil is a type of petroleum. Petroleum is considered "sweet" if it contains less than 0.5% sulfur,[1] compared to a higher level of sulfur in sour crude oil. Sweet crude oil contains small amounts of hydrogen sulfide and carbon dioxide. High quality, low sulfur crude oil is commonly used for processing into gasoline and is in high demand, particularly in the industrialized nations. "Light sweet crude oil" is the most sought-after version of crude oil as it contains a disproportionately large amount of these fractions that are used to process gasoline (naphtha), kerosene, and high-quality diesel (gas oil).

Producers of sweet crude oil include:

The Appalachian Basin Eastern North America: Pennsylvania Grade Crude Oil. The Bakken Formation of North Dakota, Montana, Saskatchewan and Manitoba.[3]

Some Mid-Continent Oil Field United States: (Louisiana Sweet) and (West Texas Intermediate a.k.a. Texas Light Sweet).
The North Sea area of Northern Europe: Norway and United Kingdom (Brent Crude).Iraq

North Africa: Libya and Algeria. Western Africa: Nigeria.Ghana Central Africa: Republic of the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo and Angola.

The Far East: China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, India, Vietnam, Australia and New Zealand"


Matt Egan Fox Business 4-28-2011 "The main reason behind the move, and confusing price action, appears to be a lack of global appetite for the sour blend of crude oil produced by Saudi Arabia and the intense desire for the light, sweet blend produced by wartorn Libya.

“There is a glut of supply of the type of crude that Saudis produce, but nobody wants: heavy crude,” said Phil Flynn, an energy analyst at PFGBEST and a FOX Business contributor.

At the same time, the Saudis may be quicker to defend high oil prices than in the past because they have promised to spend heavily -- approximately $93 billion in government handouts -- in an attempt to placate their angry citizens."

By Alejandro Barbajosa and Humeyra Pamuk, Reuters

SINGAPORE/DUBAI | Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:42am BST

SINGAPORE/DUBAI (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia and other OPEC producers are having to play a difficult balancing act in keeping high oil prices from eroding demand while at the same time protecting the value of their lower-priced, more sulphurous crude.

Middle East producers are selling their oil at the deepest discounts since 2005, as heavy sour crude values stay under pressure from a triple shock of China's growing appetite for diesel, Libya's civil war and Japan's March disaster.

Additional OPEC supplies are having little effect on prices of lighter and sweeter crude. The loss of high-quality Libyan barrels over the past two months helped propel Brent crude futures to a 32-month high above $127 a barrel last week, trading about $3 below that peak on Thursday.

But the Libyan violence has not been as supportive for Mideast Gulf crude prices, which are now key to fund multi-billion-dollar spending sprees that emirs and kings across the Arabian peninsula launched to tighten their grip on power amid wide social unrest.

"The problem is that the only spare capacity in the Middle East is sour," said Barclays Capital London-based analyst Amrita Sen. "Even if the Saudis increase production, there will still be a deficit of light sweet crude."

[SC Cheesehead]

Refer to Post 151 above. That is what I was told there.

Got it.

Now I know who didn't get the memo...

[sailsmen]

Published: Thursday, 28 Apr 2011 | 5:12 PM ET Text Size By: Reuters with CNBC.com

Twitter LinkedInMore Share
U.S. crude oil futures rose Thursday to hit a 31-month high settlement after a volatile trading session that saw a weak dollar attract investors seeking alternative assets.
AP
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


U.S. gasoline futures surged for a sixth straight session, driving prices to the highest level since July 2008 as the world's top consumer gears up for driving season. Brent crude held steady after closing in on its 2011 high.

Crude traded in a wide range again. The Federal Reserve's intention to keep U.S. interest rates near zero has weakened the dollar, luring investors to riskier assets. But soft U.S. economic data raised doubts about the energy demand outlook.

"The Fed did not give commodities traders any reason to think that the dollar's fall will be stemmed, creating incentive to keep buying commodities," said Stephen Schork, president at the Schork Group in Villanova, Pennsylvania.

Published: Wednesday, 20 Apr 2011 | 6:04 PM ET Text Size By: Reuters with CNBC.com

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Oil prices climbed Wednesday, helped by government data showing sharp drops in U.S. crude and refined products stockpiles, an equities rally and a weaker dollar.

On the New York Mercantile Exchange, U.S. light, sweet crude [CLCV1 113.93 1.07 (+0.95%) ] for June gained $3.17 a barrel to settle at $111.45 a barrel, the highest since April 18, when U.S. crude posted its steepest close of 2011 at $112.79.

In London, Brent crude [LCOCV1 126.03 --- UNCH (0) ] settled up $2.52 a barrel to $123.85, after reaching an intraday high of $124.23.

U.S. crude inventories fell 2.32 million barrels last week, bucking average analyst forecasts in a Reuters poll for a a 1.1 million barrel increase. It was the first drawdown since the week to Feb. 25.

A big drop in U.S. crude imports and a rise in refinery utilization as plants emerged from spring maintenance also helped to prompt a ninth-consecutive drawdown in U.S. gasoline stocks and a second weekly decline in U.S. distillate supplies, EIA data showed.

"The inventory trend has been very bullish for the last 10 weeks. And this is partly supporting the strength in crude prices outside geopolitics," said Mark Kellstrom, senior analyst at Strategic Energy Research and Capital in Summit, New Jersey.


More on CNBC.com
Current DateTime: 10:13:26 01 May 2011
LinksList Documentid: 42671246
Libya Oil in Legal Limbo, Virtually UntouchableOil May Hit $150, Gold $2,000: Risk AssessorBP Named Worst Company in America
The latest drop in gasoline stocks came as demand was expected to rise further in this week's Easter holiday driving, ahead of U.S. summer driving season beginning on Memorial Day at the end of May.

The dollar index, which measures the greenback against a basket of currencies [.DXY 73.04 -0.09 (-0.12%) ], was last down nearly 1 percent, dipping to near its lowest point since 2008. A weaker U.S. currency can support dollar-denominated commodities by making them cheaper for holders of other currencies.

Reuters data showed the correlation between a weakening dollar and rising oil prices has reached its most accentuated level of 2011.

[1 Bad Merc]

Obviously the end payer pays the tax on all products and services. When the USA Gov't has the highest or second highest corporate tax in the World, corporations will and are going else where because it costs them too much to be in the USA.

"state and federal corporate income taxes" are not the same taxes other coporations pay? There is also the lease sale payment and royalty plust taxes on each barrel of oil. There is nothing disengenuous about my statement.

By EO only 30% of road taxes go to roads, something the Pres could by EO change back to 100%.

When GM pays taxes, ohh thats right the IRS gave them a unique ruling that exempts the first $48 billion in profits from taxes, when GM eventually pays taxes using your logic it does not come out of their profits they are just as you say a "collector".

"Offshore drilling was stopped because the companies involved took alot of shortcuts and the government's monitors were not monitoring anything. So now that we have the oil spill the government feels that they have to show the public they are doing something. I believe only new drilling was stopped but older drilling is still continuing. I could be wrong but this is what I was told."

Oil cos took short cuts in the Gulf that is incorrect. IT was BP who took the short cuts. Proof 28,000 wells drilled in the Gulf and 2 blow outs. Who can match that safety record. You are incorrect there is no continuation of "old drilling" in the GOM. In one year only one permit has been issued and that was to resume drilling at a well that was in place before the moratorium.

"The oil companies dont want to chase after the crude oil here in North America because it is harder and more expensive type of oil to get and refine. It is easier and cheaper for them to buy sweet saudi oil (which is a lighter type of oil) ship it in and then refine it here. They could easily restart some of the domestic US oil fields but it is cheaper/less hassle for them to look elsewhere."


Some of the lightest oil in the Wolrd is LA Crude, the transportation costs far out weigh any additional refinning costs. Why did Shell invest $4 billion to invest in one lease in the USA?

The bad part about the Shell oil deal is that none of that Oil was to be used domesticly here in the States. It is to replace the oil from the Alaska pipeline as that oil field is being used up. Most of the Alaskan oil is sold and shipped overseas.

7-7-2008 "Despite the opening of new fields, oil production in Alaska has steadily declined in recent years. The amount flowing through the trans-Alaska pipeline has fallen from a high of more than 2 million barrels a day in 1988 to 740,000 barrels a day in 2007, according to the Alyeska Pipeline Service Co.
After-tax profits go to the oil companies and royalties go to resource owners - mainly the state of Alaska, whose budget relies heavily on the money from oil production. About $2 billion in oil royalties went into the state's general fund this past year.
Other resource owners include the federal government and private landowners - parties that generally support drilling in ANWR because it would add to the dwindling supplies of the state's existing oil fields.
The crude oil that flows down the 800-mile pipeline is picked up by tankers in the port of Valdez. According to state officials, the bulk of the crude is transported to West Coast refineries, with a small percentage remaining in Alaska and an unknown amount going overseas.According to the CIA's World Factbook, the U.S. exported 1.048 million barrels of crude per day in 2004 - which amounts to about 12 percent of domestic production - and imported 13.15 million barrels a day that same year. It's unclear how much of the exported oil originated in Alaska.
A group of oil companies paid for the pipeline to be built in the late 1970s at a cost of $8 billion. Interest holdings in the pipeline have changed hands several times and today three companies own much of the pipeline and most of Alaska's oil leases: BP PLC, Exxon Mobil Corp. and ConocoPhillips.
Jeannette J. Lee
AP Business Writer
Anchorage, Alaska"

I know a couple of oil people and during dinner conversations it was mentioned that they could easily build some new refineries here in the States but they just dont want to deal with the NIMBY people or the Government. They will have to deal with all kinds of lawsuits and such and why should they.

Incorrect. Shell looked at building a new refinery and the costs is double what they can build for else where. IT is the Gov't not the oil cos that demand multiple blends of fuel. The last refinery that was built was 1976 and a firm I was an owner of provided services to this refinery. This is a side issue becasue it is the cost of crude that is driving the pirce not a lack of refineries.

"easily build some new refineries" - Very curious as to what your definition of hard is?

What other product can you buy from as many different outlets and brands as gasoline, which has a whopping 4% profit margin for the oil cos. Today gasoline is a by product of the refining process. The profits are in all the other products yielded during the refining process.

I suggest you persue additional sources of information.

I guess I am wrong on all of my points and they dont have any value/merit. :rolleyes: I guess if I really wanted to I could sit their and pick a point out in your posts and find some newspaper somewhere in the world that has a different viewpoint. Because we all know that the newspapers and global media (like Reuters/AP) never lie and always tell the truth.;)

I really dont have time to sit at my computer all day and look up news stories to defend/contradict posts that my fellow marauders put up. I was trying to add some knowledge that I had (since I worked in the industry) to the discussion.

Again I got sucked in (I blame PONYUP) because I enjoy the banter of back and forth and I usually like to learn about different viewpoints. I am broad minded enough to realize that their are many ways to skin a cat if you really look at it. My intention was not to win every discussion but to bring some knowledge that I had to the table from my years in the industry.

I guess I should have learned my lesson and just stuck to the car issues.

[sailsmen]

Very few people know that;
1) Gov't owns over 85% of the World's Oil
2) that the USA Oil Industry Profit is 4% on Gasoline and 8% overall, far less than the average of the big TV Networks
3) that the USA has a 300 year supply of oil
4) that the USA has a 300 year supply of Shale Oil
5) that the USA has a 75+ year supply of NG if we switched to it from oil
6) that the Gov't taxes on Gasoline exceed the Oil Cos 4% profit margin
7) that USA Oil Cos pay for the Lease, a Royalty, a Tax per barrel, Corporate Income tax, etc.
8) that out of 28,000 wells drilled in the Gulf there were 2 blow outs.

There are facts and there are opinions. I have cited numerous sources* for facts. There are many sources that back up the facts I have cited.

I still provide services to the Oil service industries. I have had the pleasure of working with the innovators and pioneers of the offshore oil industry. I have the Thistle Field and LOOP proposals on my desk. 3D and directional drilling have changed the paradigm.
*FoxNews, NewsMax, Cato, WSJ, AP, Reuters, Wikki, CNBC, NYT, Tax Foundation.

[PonyUP]

I guess I am wrong on all of my points and they dont have any value/merit. :rolleyes: I guess if I really wanted to I could sit their and pick a point out in your posts and find some newspaper somewhere in the world that has a different viewpoint. Because we all know that the newspapers and global media (like Reuters/AP) never lie and always tell the truth.;)

I really dont have time to sit at my computer all day and look up news stories to defend/contradict posts that my fellow marauders put up. I was trying to add some knowledge that I had (since I worked in the industry) to the discussion.

Again I got sucked in (I blame PONYUP) because I enjoy the banter of back and forth and I usually like to learn about different viewpoints. I am broad minded enough to realize that their are many ways to skin a cat if you really look at it. My intention was not to win every discussion but to bring some knowledge that I had to the table from my years in the industry.

I guess I should have learned my lesson and just stuck to the car issues.
wait, how did I get involved? :lol:Seriously though Merc I enjoy some good banter especially with people with open minds, and you certainly have that and my respect

[1 Bad Merc]

wait, how did I get involved? :lol:Seriously though Merc I enjoy some good banter especially with people with open minds, and you certainly have that and my respect

It was that sucking sound and those cartoons and Kentucky and.......I dont know it just seemed right :)

[SC Cheesehead]

wait, how did I get involved? :lol:Seriously though Merc I enjoy some good banter especially with people with open minds, and you certainly have that and my respect

Same holds true here. I enjoy lively dialog with friends, heck, if you've noticed, I even engage with fer'ners (kernie and Dr. Caleb). :D

[prchrman]

So you must think I do not have problems living I take it? This effects me too as it effects everyone, but I "deal with it" and keep moving on. Gas cost more so you put money a side on a few things. I still need to eat, so make it myself. I break something I go to a junkyard. Gas is expensive so I take the bus... rarely. There are ways to adjust and deal with it. I am sticking by word and saying we were spoiled. Prices didn't rise up until the past ten years and we have had it cheap for a while DEAL WITH IT.

You are a server for Jesus? Wow good for you. I guess that makes you the better man and you are going to heaven as a result for you kind deeds on earth. Well let me tell you something Mr. Son Of A Preacher Man, I don't help people who follow Jesus, I help everyone. I don't care what their religious view is, what they drive, how old they are or how much money they have. Does that make me the better man? Who knows... I don't care. As far as religion is concerned I see it as the reason for war/death and with no concrete evidence of anything, there is no point. People who just believe what they are told are gullible, those that say "We are the only people that are right and everyone else will go to hell" are so far brainwashed, there is no point to even having a conversation with these people on anything that goes against their beliefs. They will say it's wrong no matter what. That's every religion. No one has been there and back. I might as well just write a book and say everything in it is true and everyone needs to be saved... oh wait it's been done, many times. As long as there is religion there will be war and there will be bloodshed, what a wonderful thing.

I preach nothing, but believing in yourself.


First I would like to say I am sorry if I offended you. Offending you was not the object of my response. I was trying to address several things; first how much the price of energy affects the poor more than others because it takes a bigger slice of their finances than others, IE $50 out of $400 is a bigger cut than $50 out of $1000, second that we are not necessarily spoiled because fuel prices have not went up that much over the years, several items we buy have not went up that much, like TVs, ovens and also we do not have the cheapest gas on earth there are places it is below a buck a gallon, third the way that elitist appear to not care about the poor in that they want energy cost to go up but do not understand how it just oblitirates poor peoples budgets and it is not what they can cut back but what they have to do without like medicine, heating oil, doctor visits, insurance, etc etc.

Yes I do serve Jusus but I was not pushing my religion on you. You said something about me being a psycholgist and I said I was not and could not help you in that area. What I did say was that the only way I know to help people is give them the gospel and Jesus. We are all free moral agents and can chose who and what we serve.

OBTW I did not say I was the better man (any that know me know I do not act like that), I am not brainwashed (studied for 3 decades now on life, God and what makes things tick no one pushes me, I chose) and I am not the son of a preacher (no preachers in my family before me).

Again sorry if offended you and I wish the best to you and yours.
Willie

[jerrym3]

Our 300 year supply of oil is based on what consumption assumptions?

Full grown China and India?

Average mpg of ?????

Technological advances not yet developed?

[tbone]

Same holds true here. I enjoy lively dialog with friends, heck, if you've noticed, I even engage with fer'ners (kernie and Dr. Caleb). :D

:lol::lol::lol:

[tbone]

Very few people know that;
1) Gov't owns over 85% of the World's Oil
2) that the USA Oil Industry Profit is 4% on Gasoline and 8% overall, far less than the average of the big TV Networks
3) that the USA has a 300 year supply of oil
4) that the USA has a 300 year supply of Shale Oil
5) that the USA has a 75+ year supply of NG if we switched to it from oil
6) that the Gov't taxes on Gasoline exceed the Oil Cos 4% profit margin
7) that USA Oil Cos pay for the Lease, a Royalty, a Tax per barrel, Corporate Income tax, etc.
8) that out of 28,000 wells drilled in the Gulf there were 2 blow outs.

There are facts and there are opinions. I have cited numerous sources* for facts. There are many sources that back up the facts I have cited.

I still provide services to the Oil service industries. I have had the pleasure of working with the innovators and pioneers of the offshore oil industry. I have the Thistle Field and LOOP proposals on my desk. 3D and directional drilling have changed the paradigm.
*FoxNews, NewsMax, Cato, WSJ, AP, Reuters, Wikki, CNBC, NYT, Tax Foundation.

Demonizing big oil is the specific task of Obama and his supporters. I posted facts about oil profits a while back and had to argue it for quite a while.

[Fosters]

Demonizing big oil is the specific task of Obama and his supporters. I posted facts about oil profits a while back and had to argue it for quite a while.
In honesty, they hate everything that makes a profit, because OMFG it's a profit on the backs of the middle class and the poor!!1!

And if something doesn't make a profit, then well, they need more regulation and they need to be run by the government because obviously capitalism failed in their minds.

You can't win with those idiots.

[jerrym3]

Fosters, are you really serious, or do you just like to throw out bait?

The government doesn't like profits?

No profits, no taxes, no business, no economy, we're all down the tubes.

Now, there's profits, and then there are profits based on manipulation of the free market, and there I can agree with you.

Any government should be against market manipulation for profit, but it's easier said than done.

[vtwoodsman]

When the Alaskan oil pipeline was initially started it was jointly owned by BP and ARCO. More than 90 percent of the oil went to Japan/Asia because the oil companies could get top dollar from the Asian market, versus the USA. So more drilling in US regions doesn't mean it goes to US refineries. It goes to the top bidder.

[LIGHTNIN1]

In honesty, they hate everything that makes a profit, because OMFG it's a profit on the backs of the middle class and the poor!!1!

And if something doesn't make a profit, then well, they need more regulation and they need to be run by the government because obviously capitalism failed in their minds.

You can't win with those idiots.

That settles it, I am changing my lifestyle category to one of The Poor. I will then marry a large illegal woman. Have not decided from what country. That should have me a meal ticket for life.

[SC Cheesehead]

That settles it, I am changing my lifestyle category to one of The Poor. I will then marry a large illegal woman. Have not decided from what country. That should have me a meal ticket for life.

If you wanna be happy
For the rest of your life,
Never make a pretty woman your wife,
So from my personal point of view,
Get an ugly girl to marry you. - Jimmy Soul

;)

[LIGHTNIN1]

I have had guys at work try to convince me what a badge of honor it is to marry an ugly woman like you mentioned. Others tried to convince me of how much better off I would be to marry someone that does not speak my language. I observed in most cases this was not working out for them so in both counts I held back my extreme urgency to do this and went another route.

[PonyUP]

I have had guys at work try to convince me what a badge of honor it is to marry an ugly woman like you mentioned. Others tried to convince me of how much better off I would be to marry someone that does not speak my language. I observed in most cases this was not working out for them so in both counts I held back my extreme urgency to do this and went another route.

In this politically correct society, sue for your right to marry a blow up doll. They don't nag, will do all the things you want and won't hog the covers at night. I'm just saying

[Dereck]

Hi Guys

Only $8.90 a gallon here for 95 octane :D

Regards

Dereck

[SC Cheesehead]

In this politically correct society, sue for your right to marry a blow up doll. They don't nag, will do all the things you want and won't hog the covers at night. I'm just saying

Yeah, but they can't cook worth a crap...

[tbone]

Gas is 4.39 for regular here now. :(

[SC Cheesehead]

Hi Guys

Only $8.90 a gallon here for 95 octane :D

Regards

Dereck

:eek:

What's the cost breakdown, what portion of that is tax?

[Bluerauder]

Gas is 4.39 for regular here now. :(

I saw Shell V-Power 93 for $4.60 this morning. Just passing by of course. The station might just be gouging Interstate travellers since it is located right off I-95 in an area known for traffic congestion and long back-ups. That's about 30-40 cents higher than other stations in the area. Welcome to Virginia. :o

[rayjay]

I saw Shell V-Power 93 for $4.60 this morning. Just passing by of course. The station might just be gouging Interstate travellers since it is located right off I-95 in an area known for traffic congestion and long back-ups. That's about 30-40 cents higher than other stations in the area. Welcome to Virginia. :o

Charlie, can ya get that lowered some before I drive through in two months?

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Hi Guys

Only $8.90 a gallon here for 95 octane :D

Regards

Dereck

Dereck, do you ride in style in a Lincoln Town Car over there? Pics if so?:)

[SC Cheesehead]

Paid $3.999 for Shell V-Power this evening.

[rayjay]

Paid $3.999 for Shell V-Power this evening.

Sure, rub it in Rex... :censor: That stuff actually runs ok in your car? Neither my MM or LS8 gets anything for mileage with that gas.

[SC Cheesehead]

Sure, rub it in Rex... :censor: That stuff actually runs ok in your car? Neither my MM or LS8 gets anything for mileage with that gas.

It's just the opposite with my car, V-Power typically gives me better mileage, Exxon's next, BP isn't too good.

[Fosters]

Fosters, are you really serious, or do you just like to throw out bait?

The government doesn't like profits?

No profits, no taxes, no business, no economy, we're all down the tubes.

Now, there's profits, and then there are profits based on manipulation of the free market, and there I can agree with you.

Any government should be against market manipulation for profit, but it's easier said than done.

I'm talking about liberals. Ask your typical liberal what they think about the profits of the oil companies, or the profits of the big shots - Microsoft/Bill Gates, and so on. If they're successful, liberals hate them for making those profits. Then ask them about GM's "profits". They're unsuccessful because capitalism failed there and thus the government had to intervene and they're now better... :rolleyes:

And governments don't mind profits unless it's the kind that needs to be taxed more, or the kind that needs to not be taxed at all (in this government's case, green profits, like GE's).

I think you read that one wrong buddy. :D

[jerrym3]

Fosters, sorry, buddy, you are right, I can't read you anymore at all.

You are way too far to one side.

But, that's your right, no pun intended (yeah, right!).

:):):)

[SC Cheesehead]

Fosters, sorry, buddy, you are right, I can't read you anymore at all.

You are way too far to one side.

But, that's your right, no pun intended (yeah, right!).

:):):)


Right = Correct

or

Correct = Right

I think Fosters is both... :D

[jerrym3]

Cheesehead, and that's your right.

[kernie]

Right = Correct

or

Correct = Right

I think Fosters is both... :D

There is right right and there is wrong right, way too much wrong right around IMO.

:beer:

[SC Cheesehead]

There is right right and there is wrong right, way too much wrong right around IMO.

:beer:

Wrong right = left.... :D

[LIGHTNIN1]

Way too much Wrong Left going on around here.;)
Such things keep us from drilling oil wells, putting in nuclear power plants,capital punishment and the like.

[Dereck]

Hi SC Cheesehead


:eek:

What's the cost breakdown, what portion of that is tax?

About 73% is tax, about 24% is production costs and we make about 3% ($0.26)

Hi ChTownMarauder


Dereck, do you ride in style in a Lincoln Town Car over there? Pics if so?:)

Yes I have a Town Car, also have an Excursion as well as the Marauder

http://www.superstitiongold.com/lincoln/TwoToneTownCar/92%20Town%20Car%20With%20Turbi nes%20006.jpg

http://www.superstitiongold.com/lincoln/ShinyExcursion/Excursion%20Meguiars%20Shine%2 0002.jpg

http://www.superstitiongold.com/lincoln/MeguiarsChallange/Marauder%20Shine%20019a.jpg

Regards

Dereck

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

^Sweet cars. Are they all in England with you, I see the TC is, but the Merc has Oklahoma plates?

[Fosters]

Way too much Wrong Left going on around here.;)
Such things keep us from drilling oil wells, putting in nuclear power plants,capital punishment and the like.

Careful, some leftist is gonna soon make the claim 3 rights make a left... :o

But hey, according to mythbusters, 3 rights is better than one left ;)

[Dereck]

Hi ChiTownMarauder

Yes all three cars are here in the U.K things are not what they seem, the Town Car has "Arizona" plates...

http://www.superstitiongold.com/lincoln/92TownCar/DSCF0443.JPG

.... and the Excursion has "Pennsylvania" plates


http://www.superstitiongold.com/lincoln/ShinyExcursion/Shiny%20Excursion%20020.jpg

The license plates are U.K numbers done in a sort of U.S style, not quite legal here but no one seems to care much.

Regards

Dereck

[Fosters]

So how many times have you managed to block traffic in the UK with the excursion? :eek:

[LeoVampire]

Looks like the bill passed for Connecticut to raise Gasoline prices @ the pumps.

They are doing what they can to make the state budget work but this is not a good step if you ask me we already pay enough @ the pumps here.

Regular is $4.26 a gallon average for us right now before the tax increase.

BTW try this out you can look up local gas prices and report them as well for a chance to win a $250.00 gas card they draw each week.

http://www.connecticutgasprices.com/Price_By_County.aspx

[Dereck]

So how many times have you managed to block traffic in the UK with the excursion? :eek:

Hi Fosters

I blocked the entrance to a multi-story parking garage once when I drove in only to find the cieling was actually lower than the sign said, luckily I stopped when I heard all the shouting and before I hit a roof support girder.

The parking attendant then had to make everyone behind me back-up so I could back out of the garage :)

Regards

Dereck

[Motorhead350]

I remember the black one!

Thanks again for the day and the ride!

[SC Cheesehead]

"Oil slipped 66 cents to $99.14 a barrel following the report. Before the data came out, oil was 3% lower. On Thursday, crude sank nearly 9% (http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/05/markets/oil_prices/index.htm?iid=EL) -- the biggest one-day percentage drop in two years.
Crude prices neared $114 a barrel last month as fears about supplies took hold following escalating violence in Libya. But as investors got 'accustomed' to those concerns, oil prices became mired in a fairly tight range...until this week."

http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/06/markets/commodities_oil_silver/index.htm?hpt=T2

Looks like relief to the high price of gas is on the way.

[PonyUP]

"Oil slipped 66 cents to $99.14 a barrel following the report. Before the data came out, oil was 3% lower. On Thursday, crude sank nearly 9% (http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/05/markets/oil_prices/index.htm?iid=EL) -- the biggest one-day percentage drop in two years.
Crude prices neared $114 a barrel last month as fears about supplies took hold following escalating violence in Libya. But as investors got 'accustomed' to those concerns, oil prices became mired in a fairly tight range...until this week."

http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/06/markets/commodities_oil_silver/index.htm?hpt=T2

Looks like relief to the high price of gas is on the way.

Yes, I saw a report this morning that said gas was expected to drop by over $.10 a gallon initially, which is good news, though I still suspect we are going to stay at or just a little above $4 a gallon through the summer traveling months before we see a more acceptable drop.

[SC Cheesehead]

Saw an interesting comment in a news article this morning:

"Newsflash for President Obama (http://www.foxnews.com/topics/politics/obama-administration/barack-obama.htm#r_src=ramp): There are about 246 million autos in the United States (http://www.foxnews.com/topics/u.s.htm#r_src=ramp), most of them using “yesterday’s energy” so we can all go to work, church and go see our loved ones. Yesterday’s energy works. It’s today’s politicians that need some improvement."

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/05/06/journalists-shield-obama-road-rage-high-gas-prices-bush-didnt-catch-break/

You betcha...

[rayjay]

Maybe taking a few oil speculators to visit osama's grave site would help the price of fuel.

[sailsmen]

Please ask what are the Speculators Speculating on? Umm could it be the USA will let Oil Leases, that it has gotten Billions of dollars in sales from, be drilled on? Will you Speculate that the USA will allow more drilling or less drilling?

They are speculating on Pres Obama's policies.

The Bad News is 5 of the last 6 recessions were preceded by gas exceeding 6% of disposable income. It is now at 9%. Oh and the 1 recession 6% did not precede was caused by 911.

"By Ben Rooney, staff reporterMay 6, 2011: 12:44 PM ET


NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Round-trip airfare from New York to Los Angeles. More than a dozen dinners for two at Applebee's. Two 16 GB iPod nanos.

These are just a few of the things you could have bought if you weren't spending $368.09 a month on gasoline.

Prices at the pump can vary widely among states due to a number of factors. More That's the average amount American households spent on gas in April, according to an exclusive analysis of data by the Oil Price Information Service for CNNMoney.

The study, which compared average gas prices with median incomes nationwide, also showed that U.S. households spent nearly 9% of their total income on gas last month."

[prchrman]

Noticed this am gas at my favorite gas station had went down $0.06 from $3.859 to $3.799.

[rayjay]

Noticed this am gas at my favorite gas station had went down $0.06 from $3.859 to $3.799.

Locally they said it will initially drop, only to return to climbing. Not sure why.

[SC Cheesehead]

Locally they said it will initially drop, only to return to climbing. Not sure why.


Sure you do!

"In his State of the Union address, President Barack Obama reiterated his commitment to green technologies by vowing to flood America's highways with plug-in cars and will ask Congress for new programs to support sales and development of electric vehicles.

With more research and incentives, we can break our dependence on oil with biofuels, and become the first country to have 1 million electric vehicles on the road by 2015,' Obama said..."
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/105662/20110127/obama-electric-vehicles.htm#ixzz1LrV1AvWE

Keep the price of petroleum-based fuels artificially high and people will be forced to pursue alternative vehicle options, whether they want them or not (remember, Big Government ALWAYS knows what's best)...

C.Y.C.B.I. :rolleyes:

[Bluerauder]

Locally they said it will initially drop, only to return to climbing. Not sure why.

Because it can. :rolleyes: The current drop is being pushed because crude oils prices are 15% lower. Of course, we won't see gas drop 15% from $4.00 to $3.40 ... that would make too much sense. :P

I suspect that gasoline prices will "S...l...o...w...l...y" move down to around $3.70 before it starts climbing because of "summer demand". This is all a damn game and you ain't entitled to see the rules .... or handle the dice .... or move your piece on the board.

Why is it that when something happens at 6:00 AM in the Middle East .... the numbers on the pump are changing by 6:15 AM. However, when the crisis is over and oil prices drop, it takes a month for gas to go back down to where it was. :dunno:

[SC Cheesehead]

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is expected this week to push forward a Democratic plan that would transfer tax breaks for American oil companies to approved green-energy firms.


House Speaker John Boehner, meanwhile, will bring up a series of votes on a suite of Republican legislation aimed at breaking President Obama's clampdown on offshore drilling permits.

Even as recession fears force commodity prices downward, gas prices are expected to continue to rise above $4-per-gallon. Uncertainty abroad, rising global demand, a shattered U.S. dollar and decreased domestic production all mean prices will continue to increase for hard-pressed American consumers...

The Democratic proposal, however, would almost certainly raise gasoline prices as companies compensated for $4 billion in increased federal taxes. The plan proposed by President Obama and subsequently championed by Reid and Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., is part of a multi-year effort to encourage green energy (in part by keeping energy prices high).

As I was saying...

[CBT]

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is expected this week to push forward a Democratic plan that would transfer tax breaks for American oil companies to approved green-energy firms.


House Speaker John Boehner, meanwhile, will bring up a series of votes on a suite of Republican legislation aimed at breaking President Obama's clampdown on offshore drilling permits.

Even as recession fears force commodity prices downward, gas prices are expected to continue to rise above $4-per-gallon. Uncertainty abroad, rising global demand, a shattered U.S. dollar and decreased domestic production all mean prices will continue to increase for hard-pressed American consumers...

The Democratic proposal, however, would almost certainly raise gasoline prices as companies compensated for $4 billion in increased federal taxes. The plan proposed by President Obama and subsequently championed by Reid and Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., is part of a multi-year effort to encourage green energy (in part by keeping energy prices high).

As I was saying...

They have to keep the companies here, that would be a good start.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/15/business/energy-environment/15solar.html?_r=2&src=me&ref=business

[LIGHTNIN1]

Gas prices on the rise. Unemployment on the rise. Food prices and all consumables on the rise. Bin Laden is not going to save Pharoah Obama in 18 months. He's going to have to turn that green energy to pink.

[cruzer]

Gas dropped $.10 this week= $3.75 this morning for 86 octane ----:bows:

[PonyUP]

Is it just me, or is everyone else looking at the gas price drops with a hint of skepticism. I mean this is kind of like being offered a french fry, the idea being we are going to want more fries.

Gas was getting out of control, and then suddenly 2 weeks before memorial day (one of the busiest car travel weekends) prices start to drop. Is it because they want to relieve some of the panic and make sure people make memorial day plans? Meeee think so. The Thursday night before the weekend, my bet is we'll see a pretty hefty spike.

How sad is this situation when we are rejoicing over a $.10 drop in gas, which equates to maybe $1.80 a fill up, but it injected a much needed feeling of relief, but I suspect we haven't seen the worst of it yet.

[1 Bad Merc]

They have to keep the companies here, that would be a good start.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/15/business/energy-environment/15solar.html?_r=2&src=me&ref=business


The above was exactly what I was talking about- Free trade does not work when the playing fields are not level between the countries.

This is why we have lost the majority of our mfging jobs to other countries-they entice our jobs away and dont have to pay all the additional costs that we make our companies pay here. Hard to fight the country that owns your debt:eek: but I would start slapping on tariffs for import goods until we could level the fields. Alot of countries/companies will complain and moan but in the end they still need to sell thier products here in the U.S. and will eventually have to comply.

Or a novel idea would be for them to build plants here in states (Toyota/Mitsubishi) and then you dont have to pay those big tariff fees-just a random thought I had :).

[Bluerauder]

Is it just me, or is everyone else looking at the gas price drops with a hint of skepticism.

Gas was getting out of control, and then suddenly 2 weeks before memorial day (one of the busiest car travel weekends) prices start to drop. Is it because they want to relieve some of the panic and make sure people make memorial day plans? Meeee think so. The Thursday night before the weekend, my bet is we'll see a pretty hefty spike.

Naaaah. That would be just too cynical. ;)

[Kennyrauder]

I am paying $1.55 per liter for 91 octane... & you think it's crazy to be paying $4.00 per gallon. We have more oil in Canada than the entire middle east, our governments here are raping us too with higher taxes. Want to move to the US. will someone adopt us???

[Mr. Man]

Because it can. :rolleyes: The current drop is being pushed because crude oils prices are 15% lower. Of course, we won't see gas drop 15% from $4.00 to $3.40 ... that would make too much sense. :P

I suspect that gasoline prices will "S...l...o...w...l...y" move down to around $3.70 before it starts climbing because of "summer demand". This is all a damn game and you ain't entitled to see the rules .... or handle the dice .... or move your piece on the board.

Why is it that when something happens at 6:00 AM in the Middle East .... the numbers on the pump are changing by 6:15 AM. However, when the crisis is over and oil prices drop, it takes a month for gas to go back down to where it was. :dunno:
There is no conspiracy here Charlie, our Govt has told us so:rolleyes:

[1 Bad Merc]

[/B]
There is no conspiracy here Charlie, our Govt has to us so:rolleyes:

Yep -the Govt. said to trust them :bs:

[SC Cheesehead]

The above was exactly what I was talking about- Free trade does not work when the playing fields are not level between the countries.

This is why we have lost the majority of our mfging jobs to other countries-they entice our jobs away and dont have to pay all the additional costs that we make our companies pay here. Hard to fight the country that owns your debt:eek: but I would start slapping on tariffs for import goods until we could level the fields. Alot of countries/companies will complain and moan but in the end they still need to sell thier products here in the U.S. and will eventually have to comply.

Or a novel idea would be for them to build plants here in states (Toyota/Mitsubishi) and then you dont have to pay those big tariff fees-just a random thought I had :).


^^^^^ Problem with tariffs is, who's gonna end up paying the cost of them in the long run?

If American-made goods cost more that imported goods, and can't compete, and tariffs are placed on the imported goods to "level the playing field," you (the American consumer) end up paying a higher price for the goods. Don't think for a minute that those costs won't be passed along.

You want to level the playing field? Make US goods more competitive by lowering corporate tax rates and eliminating onerous government regulations that cost companies huge dollars for compliance but which add zero value to the goods produced.


Toyota
Nissan
Honda
BMW...

They all have plants here in the US and are producing cars, employing American workers, and paying US taxes, nothing novel about that idea, I think it's a great one... :up:

[1 Bad Merc]

I 100% agree with your above post SC Cheesehead! :)

You are right we will end up paying higher costs with a tariff system but hear me out on this one. The key is we are already paying these extra costs in the backend (that alot of people dont realize) anyway when our mfging jobs move overseas. We dont export the workers when these jobs move and they dont end up getting another $26-$30 an hour mfging job. These workers are usually very lucky if they can find even a $15-$18 an hour job. Now the societal costs escalate and we end up as American taxpayers paying into all kinds of programs/assistance/ job training/housing vouchers, etc., etc. for these displaced workers. On top of that we lose the higher tax revenues that these workers contributed in the past.

The goverment does not get smaller or cutback when we lose jobs so the workers with the better jobs end up having to make up for it or we keep running these great deficits. I would much rather pay higher costs on goods with the knowledge that I am helping keep the jobs here in America or at least giving the American worker a fighting chance. I can also be selective on what I buy and either pay the tax or do without so it is my choice. Hopefully this would encourage more domestic productivity.

Now I am not talking crazy money or anything but we could easily charge .15 or .25 cents per item to help offset the costs that these imported goods take from us. I dont think people realize how many goods are imported and sold here and how much money this could potentially generate-easily billions. I would like to earmark that money specifically for the national debt only and maybe (just a crazy idea) setting up a rainy day fund. Not sure that could happen with our current goverment but it would be a step in the right direction.

It is a vicious downward cycle but we need to stop the bleeding or else we will continue down the road to 2nd tier country status. I suppose by then China would have owned us and sold us and the crap will really be hitting the proverbial fan.

[SC Cheesehead]

I 100% agree with your above post SC Cheesehead! :)

You are right we will end up paying higher costs with a tariff system but hear me out on this one. The key is we are already paying these extra costs in the backend (that alot of people dont realize) anyway when our mfging jobs move overseas. We dont export the workers when these jobs move and they dont end up getting another $26-$30 an hour mfging job. These workers are usually very lucky if they can find even a $15-$18 an hour job. Now the societal costs escalate and we end up as American taxpayers paying into all kinds of programs/assistance/ job training/housing vouchers, etc., etc. for these displaced workers. On top of that we lose the higher tax revenues that these workers contributed in the past.

The goverment does not get smaller or cutback when we lose jobs so the workers with the better jobs end up having to make up for it or we keep running these great deficits. I would much rather pay higher costs on goods with the knowledge that I am helping keep the jobs here in America or at least giving the American worker a fighting chance. I can also be selective on what I buy and either pay the tax or do without so it is my choice. Hopefully this would encourage more domestic productivity.

Now I am not talking crazy money or anything but we could easily charge .15 or .25 cents per item to help offset the costs that these imported goods take from us. I dont think people realize how many goods are imported and sold here and how much money this could potentially generate-easily billions. I would like to earmark that money specifically for the national debt only and maybe (just a crazy idea) setting up a rainy day fund. Not sure that could happen with our current goverment but it would be a step in the right direction.

It is a vicious downward cycle but we need to stop the bleeding or else we will continue down the road to 2nd tier country status. I suppose by then China would have owned us and sold us and the crap will really be hitting the proverbial fan.

^^^^^ Right on, my friend. ^^^^^

Size of our government, the national debt, and our politician's insistence on spending MORE money that we don't have is going to destroy this country if we don't do something about it soon.

I don't like the the thought of higher taxes, but as you mentioned, I'd be willing to pay a one-time increase in taxes, a surcharge, or whatever else we want to call it levied SPECIFICALLY and ONLY for the purpose paying down the national debt. That increase, coupled with a substantial CUT (not just holding expenditures at current levels and calling that 'cuts' :rolleyes:) in gov't spending may just get us turned around.

[PonyUP]

^^^^^ Right on, my friend. ^^^^^

Size of our government, the national debt, and our politician's insistence on spending MORE money that we don't have is going to destroy this country if we don't do something about it soon.

I don't like the the thought of higher taxes, but as you mentioned, I'd be willing to pay a one-time increase in taxes, a surcharge, or whatever else we want to call it levied SPECIFICALLY and ONLY for the purpose paying down the national debt. That increase, coupled with a substantial CUT (not just holding expenditures at current levels and calling that 'cuts' :rolleyes:) in gov't spending may just get us turned around.

I definitely agree with your sentiment Rex, the problem is since the politicians make the rules, what's to stop them from changing the rules to take the funds from the Debt tax to pay for some plane we'll never use, or some art project or some other stupid spending. You almost need a separate commission above the governement to manage the account, but absolute power corrupts all and our government has not done enough to earn my trust to say I'm okay with paying higher taxes just this once. Because once that door is opened, the politicians will keep going back to the well

[SC Cheesehead]

I definitely agree with your sentiment Rex, the problem is since the politicians make the rules, what's to stop them from changing the rules to take the funds from the Debt tax to pay for some plane we'll never use, or some art project or some other stupid spending. You almost need a separate commission above the governement to manage the account, but absolute power corrupts all and our government has not done enough to earn my trust to say I'm okay with paying higher taxes just this once. Because once that door is opened, the politicians will keep going back to the well

(SIGH!) You're absolutely right, Brad, but we can dream, can't we? ;)

[PonyUP]

(SIGH!) You're absolutely right, Brad, but we can dream, can't we? ;)

True enough, I still dream of the Bradtopian society, but alas I have not been able to bring it to fruition. God, wouldn't it be great though if we could trust our politicians, I mean maybe even just like 20% of them being honest would be enough to get the country back on the right track. But I ahve yet to find a politician that doesn't fall into one of the following categories

Crooked
Morally corrupt
Drug Addict
Idiot (anyone remember that jackass thinking Guam was going to flip over because of 25,000 marines)
In it for the money
In it for the power

But if you think about it, there are a couple of things that can be done to greatly increase our income without raising taxes, whether you morally agree with these or not, it will bring in money

Legalize marijuana and tax it heavier than cigarettes (not only to we get the weed cash, but the costs of imprisoning marijuana offenders goes away)
Not to mention that if it were legal, Mexico could import it, helping their economy and ultimately helping with illegal immigration

Levy heavy taxes on the movie industry, anyone else find it ridiculous that movies make hundreds of millions and when one is a hit can generate up to 70% profit.

Legalize prostitution, but regulate it. It's happening anyway, but if it's legal then guess what, the income can be reported. Yes we have to have rules to regulate where brothels can be, but it's working fine in Nevada, why not roll it out to all 50 states

These are just a few ideas, admittedly not popular ones, but all of this is going on with a wink and nod from law enforcement, imagine the money saved by not doing marijuana and prostition stings and the money gained from taxing those industries and having that income reported. I mean "weed dealer" could be an actual occupation on the tax forms, they could get a license to be an authorized dealer, small business would boom, I'm just saying

[CBT]

Great article from 2008. Same ****, different day....

http://oilgeopolitics.net/Financial_Tsunami/Oil_Speculation_II/oil_speculation_ii.html

[SC Cheesehead]

Have you ever read Jesse (The Body) Ventura's book, I Ain't Got Time to Bleed? He proposed many of the same things you mentioned.

[PonyUP]

Have you ever read Jesse (The Body) Ventura's book, I Ain't Got Time to Bleed? He proposed many of the same things you mentioned.

Never read it, but I ahve heard him on Howard Stern a few times. He's kind of weird, on many things he makes a lot of sense, but on other's he's kind of whacky.

He is also one of the 9/11 conspiracy theorists that thinks the governement brought down the towers with a controlled demolition.

He's definitely an interesting interview, I'll say that

[SC Cheesehead]

Never read it, but I ahve heard him on Howard Stern a few times. He's kind of weird, on many things he makes a lot of sense, but on other's he's kind of whacky.

He is also one of the 9/11 conspiracy theorists that thinks the governement brought down the towers with a controlled demolition.

He's definitely an interesting interview, I'll say that

Yeah, he wrote the book back in 1999 while he was governor of MN. Since then he's gotten kinda like Minnie Mouse... ;)

[CBT]

Yeah, he wrote the book back in 1999 while he was governor of MN. Since then he's gotten kinda like Minnie Mouse... ;)

That's probably because actual SeAL's told him to stop being a wannabe.

[SC Cheesehead]

That's probably because actual SeAL's told him to stop being a wannabe.

He was UDT (BUDS 58), which pre-dated the SeALs; still a bunch of bad dudes, IMO.