Sub-Woofer question

[jabird56]

OK, since I don't have time to go check things out, where is the sub-woofer located at on my 03 300A? I will be upgrading the stereo speakers when I find time in the next few months.

[LVMarauder]

Hey 56,
Not 5 minutes ago was I in my trunk mod'ing the sub woofer. It is located under the speaker tray, in the front left quadrant of the trunk compartment ( make sense?) It is held in by 4 bolts , and easily comes out and is reinstalled. I also have a 03 300A and to get to the speakers all you do is remove the speaker grills ( pop right off) unscrew the 4 screws, disconnect the harness , put new speakers in and your done. Theres a very popular thread on speak installation so look at that for the front door speakers.

I was removing the foam insert from the subwoofer enclosure and it make a BIG difference. all that loud vibration is more or less gone. The hardest part was removing the spare !! Any questions PM me.

[jabird56]

Thanks Vegas, I appreciate the info. Have a GREAT NEW YEAR! :-)

[HwyCruiser]

Has anyone ported (vented) the MM's sealed factory subwoofer enclosure? I had mine out Friday trying to see if there was anything visually wrong with the setup due to the subwoofer sounding very weak while running through the deck's speaker test at a resonable sound level.

I researched ported vs. sealed enclosures and found there is quite a debate out there. I found a very good tutorial on jlaudio's site:

http://www.jlaudio.com/tutorials/ports/index.html

I ran the numbers and found that a 1" in dia round port 7-8" in length would tune the little more than 0.35 cu. ft. factory enclosure to the low-to-mid 20Hz range (at least my calcs checked against the tutorial's example). The port would fit nicely along the long axis of the enclosure. If I can increase the output by 3dB, doubling the sound power, by sicking in a short piece of 1" PVC to let both sides of the driver work to its potential - I'm all over it.

I've got the RFP4406 driver on order recommended in a couple other threads. The factory enclosure is within the recommended volume for ported use. The mods will begin shortly after receipt. I'll post pics if anyone cares to see.

I know I'm trying to get away cheap, but I just want a little more on the low end. The stereo is a good friend on a long streach of highway.

BTW, the factory amp is a no-name, but it least it's packed with conditioning circuity. I once tore into a low-end Pioneer amp and found ony four lonely power amps inside - I threw it in the trash. Does anyone know who makes the factory subwoofer amp and what the rated power output is?

[HwyCruiser]

Still doing my homework on ported subwoofer enclosures and waiting on the RFP4406 to show up (Rockford Fosgate must have had a good christmas).

Found out that the RFP4406's lowest frequency response is

[HwyCruiser]

Whoops, infrared keyboard went flying. Anyway, the RFP4406 (Rockford Fosgate 6-3/4" sub) is rated for 58-250Hz, so tuning a ported enclosure for ~20Hz wouldn't do much good (?).

Also found two more good sites for learning about subwoofer enclosures:
http://www.audiovideo101.com/
http://www.loudspeakers101.com/

Looks now that it will need at least 6 sq inches of port area 14" long to tune the enclosure to 58Hz. This stuff is confusing, since there are so many variables to consider. Maybe I'd be just better off to put the sub in, leave the enclosure sealed and wish I had a brain (or someone could just tell me to step away from the vehicle).

[Zack]

Originally posted by LVMarauder
Hey 56,
Not 5 minutes ago was I in my trunk mod'ing the sub woofer. It is located under the speaker tray, in the front left quadrant of the trunk compartment ( make sense?)
I was removing the foam insert from the subwoofer enclosure and it make a BIG difference. all that loud vibration is more or less gone. The hardest part was removing the spare !! Any questions PM me.

To everyone who hasnt removed this piece of foam, do it.
The difference is unbelievable.
AND A VERY IMPORTANT PIECE OF INFO....
You do not have to remove the subwoofer to remove the foam.
Simply remove the drivers side speaker cover, lift up the rear shelf cover and slide your hand over to the subwoofer.
Grab the foam and pull it out.
It takes all of 3 minutes to accomplish.

[67435animal]

Originally posted by Zack
To everyone who hasnt removed this piece of foam, do it.
The difference is unbelievable.
AND A VERY IMPORTANT PIECE OF INFO....
You do not have to remove the subwoofer to remove the foam.
Simply remove the drivers side speaker cover, lift up the rear shelf cover and slide your hand over to the subwoofer.
Grab the foam and pull it out.
It takes all of 3 minutes to accomplish.

True, as long as you have a 300A with speaker grills. But, as I said in another thread, my subwoofer enclosure vibrated against the package tray so I checked the mounting hardware in the trunk and found that the two forward mounting bolts were very loose. I removed the enclosure, tightened them up and reinstalled the subwoofer enclosure. Only takes 15 minutes (maybe a little longer when you have the full size spare and have to pull it out).

Bob

[Fourth Horseman]

Originally posted by 67435animal
True, as long as you have a 300A with speaker grills. But, as I said in another thread, my subwoofer enclosure vibrated against the package tray so I checked the mounting hardware in the trunk and found that the two forward mounting bolts were very loose. I removed the enclosure, tightened them up and reinstalled the subwoofer enclosure. Only takes 15 minutes (maybe a little longer when you have the full size spare and have to pull it out).Bob

When I took delivery of my car the forward two bolts weren't even attached at all. When I pulled my spare tire out for the first time the whole sub assembly sagged down, being held by the rear bolts. :rolleyes:

I get decent sound out of my sub right now, but I think I'll try pulling that foam piece out just to see how it sounds.

[jettle]

Here is how you fix the sub...

Remove the 4 screws
Take it out
Throw it down the street as far as you can
Warm up the Marauder and repeatedly run over it!

Its too small and its under-powered. for around $200.00 you can add an infinity basslink self powered sub. You can also control how much bass it puts out it from your driver seat.
I had the older version in my Mustang and my friend has one in his Passat. It worked great for a deeper fill-in without rattling the teeth out of your head unless you turn it up. The downside to the one I had was that it didn’t have the wired remote so you could not adjust the bass in the fly. That helps a great deal with fine tuning. If you are listening to something with alot of speech then you will want to turn it down. My new one will be here Monday and I will report back how well it work in the marauder.

Also, I am putting JL audio speakers all the way around so I will report how those sound also.

I am planning to ebay the one I took out of my Mustang. Let me know if anyone is interested.

Jeff
jettle@yahoo.com

[Fourth Horseman]

Will my neighbors be able to hear^H^H^H^H feel it two blocks away?

[jettle]

No, its not like having a speaker box with twin 15's and a 500+ watt amp in the trunk.

Its very tame if you want it to be. But, It will also jiggle your mirrors if you turn it up.

Its not a ground pounder though...

[03SILVERSTREAK]

True, as long as you have a 300A with speaker grills. But, as I said in another thread, my subwoofer enclosure vibrated against the package tray so I checked the mounting hardware in the trunk and found that the two forward mounting bolts were very loose. I removed the enclosure, tightened them up and reinstalled the subwoofer enclosure. Only takes 15 minutes (maybe a little longer when you have the full size spare and have to pull it out).
Bob
By the way-would you know the parts number to the package tray? Im thinking of removing my 300B package tray for a 300A with the speaker grills...

[67435animal]

I'm afraid that I do not. I recall that one 300B owner bought the grills from Ford and cut the 300B package tray cover to match them and then installed the grills.

Bob

[SILVERMARAUDER]

I got my speaker deck replaced under warr and now have the 300a style but still have fairley bad rear sub vibration even after removing foam sub any ideas? :cry:

[67435animal]

I got my speaker deck replaced under warr and now have the 300a style but still have fairley bad rear sub vibration even after removing foam sub any ideas? :cry:

Remove the complete subwoofer assembly from the trunk. There are four mounting bolts. Make sure that they are ight (mine were very loose). While you're here, see if anything in the area rattles when you tap the package tray.

Some people have stuck foam between the tray and the cover toward the rear window to eliminate vibration. I have not done this, but, if I did, I would probably use some one sided adhesive window insulation. There are more expensive ways, but, this may improve things.

Bob

[valleyman]

I just finished installing the 6.5 Rockford Fosgate subwoofer in the OEM enclosure on my 300A. If you have a propane torch it is possible to do this mod without drilling new mounting holes in the enclosure if you don't mind breathing in some pretty wierd fumes.

As others have noted the magnet on the Rockford Fosgate is a larger diameter than the OEM subwoofer. When you try to line up the mounting holes on the new sub with the mounting holes on the enclosure (after you have cut down the cross-shaped support on the bottom of the enclosure to accommodate the greater depth of the new sub) the bigger magnet on the new sub will make contact with a concave corner of the enclosure. I wanted to use the original mounting holes in the enclosure because of the nifty little brass threads in there. So, I fired up the propane torch, moved away from the gas tank in case my idea resulted in the enclosure bursting into uncontrolled flame, and heated up that concave corner for about ten minutes with the torch. Keeping the end of the torch about two to three inches away from the plastic (or fiberglass, whatever that stuff is) I heated up both the inside and the outside walls of the part I wanted to push out of the way so it wouldn't interfere with the magnet.

It works. You have to keep pushing on the plastic or whatever every few minutes to detect when it's starting to get soft and elastic enough to be shaped the way you want it. I was able to reshape that corner enough to get the new sub in with the rubber ring on it that goes around the magnet. Just be careful not to toast the rubber OEM gasket on the speaker cutout when you move the torch from the inside to the outside of the enclosure as you're warming up both faces of the plastic. And the sealant that the factory uses on the seam in the enclosure tends to catch fire rather quickly, so try to keep the flame away from it, too.

The whole process of heating, pushing on it with my thumb (wear gloves!), heating some more and pushing some more took about 10 to 15 minutes for me to get the shape I wanted. The rest of the enclosure does not distort with the heat and you get a nice air tight seal between sub and enclosure.

[SILVERMARAUDER]

thanks will try it!

[67435animal]

I just finished installing the 6.5 Rockford Fosgate subwoofer in the OEM enclosure on my 300A. If you have a propane torch it is possible to do this mod without drilling new mounting holes in the enclosure if you don't mind breathing in some pretty wierd fumes.

I'm not sure I ant to go to all the effort that you did to replace the subwoofer. It sounds like the Rockford-FOsgate is not an exact fit for the enclosure.

However, do you know whether the Kenwood KFC-W1703 which is a 6.5 inch subwoofer will fit? Do you know what is the make and model of the stock subwoofer so I can check all the dimensions before I buy a replacement?

Thanks for any advice!

Bob

[valleyman]

animal - the OEM sub just has the Ford logo in script printed on it and no other brand name, just some numbers (XW7F-18808-LA). I don't know anything about car stereos so I don't recognize the brand of the subwoofer by looking at it. I can tell you its depth is 3 3/8" and the diameter of the magnet is 3 1/4". But if you really want to make sure of the fit, once you remove the the enclosure and amplifier assembly from the car, it takes like two minutes to pull tthe subwoofer from the enclosure and then you can take it with you to compare with any other sub you are considering. Just four torx head fasteners hold it in and the speaker wire connectors are the spade type -- pull off, push back on.

The Rockford Fosgate really wasn't that hard to get in there. I don't have a dremel so I used a standard set of nippers to shorten the plastic support the sub rests on. The plastic snips off real easy, it doesn't shatter or chip or get wierd in any fashion. Justs cuts sort of like real thick paper. I didn't do any measuring. I just shortened it by the depth of the nipper jaws, twice. I then used a piece of old carpet pad between the magnet and the newly modified support and that was that.

Heating up and remolding the shape of that one intrusive corner in the enclosure is pretty easy, too. When the plastic becomes pliable you'll be able to tell right away because it starts to give just a little bit. I was afraid (since I really didn't know what I was doing) that it might go from rigid to melted-like-butter on me but that's not what happens. It gives you plenty of warning and its not hard at all to keep it at a workable pliable state while you get it moved around to suit your purpose.

Sorry I couldn't be more exact in answering your questions but car stereos is not my forte. This is the first car I've ever had that had one.

[67435animal]

Valleyman, this helps a lot. I think I cna make a replacement work now. Thanks very much.

Bob

[valleyman]

Bob - glad to be of help. If you do elect to go the propane torch route I would be interested to find out if you got the same kind of hallucinations as I did from breathing in the fumes.

[67435animal]

Bob - glad to be of help. If you do elect to go the propane torch route I would be interested to find out if you got the same kind of hallucinations as I did from breathing in the fumes.

I sure hope so! :lol:

[67435animal]

One final question before I do this! What model of the Rockford Fosgate subwoofer did you purchase? Was it the Rockford Fosgate Punch HE RFP4806 or the HE RFP4406?

Bob

[valleyman]

RFP 4406. The 4806 is described as an 8" subwoofer and I seriously doubt if it would fit easily in the existing enclosure. I got mine from etronics.com as someone else on the site recommended. The price was $49.99 (but $15.00 to ship it out here to California!)

[67435animal]

Thanks. It looks the the 4406 is the one to buy. I found one for 44.95 at sounddomain.com. Were you able to adapt to the factory harness? What adapter harness did you use? I have checked and I suspect that the Metra Ford/Mercury/Mazda speaker harness adapter will do the trick.

Bob

[valleyman]

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply but we got hit with a power outage here in my neighborhood (dumptruck vs. power pole; power pole lost). To answer your question, I did not need to use any adapter at all. The wiring from the subwoofer amplifier to the subwoofer is only two wires on my 300A - the black is ground and the black with white stripe is hot. The OEM sub has the inputs ("+" or "-") marked on the white part of the connector block of the speaker. The Rockford Fosgate has the markings stamped on the metal connectors themselves: put the black/white on the "+" terminal of the Rockford Fosgate and the polarity will be the same as the OEM. I checked to make sure.

On mine the connectors for these two speaker wires are the simple "quick disconnect" type. The female end is on the speaker wires from the amplifier. They slip onto the male spades on the speaker. The only slight difficulty you'll encounter is that the male spades on the OEM sub are of two differnt widths. The "+" terminal is about 1/4" wide while the "-" is smaller, about 3/16" wide. The terminals on the replacement sub are both the smaller size. You could slip the 1/4" female over the 3/16" "+" terminal on the replacement sub and crimp it on with a pair of pliers and it would probably do just fine and never fall off. What I did was replace the female end on the hot wire with a 3/16" female connector that I had in a collection of electrical connectors that I've accumulated over the years from various cars and motorcycles. It works just fine. Hope this helps.

[03SILVERSTREAK]

I'm not sure I ant to go to all the effort that you did to replace the subwoofer. It sounds like the Rockford-FOsgate is not an exact fit for the enclosure.

However, do you know whether the Kenwood KFC-W1703 which is a 6.5 inch subwoofer will fit? Do you know what is the make and model of the stock subwoofer so I can check all the dimensions before I buy a replacement?

Thanks for any advice!

Bob
I would like to thank <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: pm_messagelistbit_user --><!--MI2QWK4U (member.php?u=252)-->MI2QWK4U for the help in getting this subwoofer and I am looking foward to installing it once I modify the box. Hopefully when it gets above 40-45o above zero.:baaa:

[67435animal]

Valleyman, you helped a lot. It sounds like either the RF or the Kenwood will fit with some slight modifications. I'll probably go with the RF since I know how to do it, but I am also going to investigate the Kenwood KFC-W1703!

Bob

[67435animal]

I got my speaker deck replaced under warr and now have the 300a style but still have fairley bad rear sub vibration even after removing foam sub any ideas? :cry:

Barry, I will be replacing my subwoofer in the next couple of weeks and will give you a steal on my factory sub if you cannot get it to stop vibrating by making sure the four mounting screws are tight and the foam is removed.

Bob

[joflewbyu2]

67435animal, please let me know if the kenwood kfc-w1703 blue/ kfc-w1705 silver fits and works good. I would like to get one of these to compliment my kenwood kfc-6808c (6x8 - poly 3 ways w/ rubber surround) that I have in the doors and rear deck now. Info from one Kenwood catalog to another differs from each other and both can be wrong. It stated my 6808s were foam surrounds while they are definately rubber surrounds. would also like pics or details on the OEM sub. 4 ohm or 8 ohm?, wattage?

[67435animal]

67435animal, please let me know if the kenwood kfc-w1703 blue/ kfc-w1705 silver fits and works good. I would like to get one of these to compliment my kenwood kfc-6808c (6x8 - poly 3 ways w/ rubber surround) that I have in the doors and rear deck now. Info from one Kenwood catalog to another differs from each other and both can be wrong. It stated my 6808s were foam surrounds while they are definately rubber surrounds. would also like pics or details on the OEM sub. 4 ohm or 8 ohm?, wattage?

I may be tracking just slightly ahead of you. MI2QWK4U has installed the Kenwood. VALLEYMAN has installed the Rockford Fosgate.

Since the two subwoofers that have been installed by others are both 4 ohm, I assume that the factory one is also 4 ohm.

I also assume that both had to modify the subwoofer enclosure slightly in order for the new woofer to fit. My research says that the Kenwood is the better performer of the two (frequency response); however, I will wait until I find out if the Kenwood installs with as little effort as the RF (see Valleyman's posts) before I decied which of the two to buy.

Also, the stock enclosure uses teminals compatible with the RF subwoofer terminals. I assume that they would also be compatible with the Kenwood terminals.

I'll keep you posted!

Bob

[MI2QWK4U]

Hi guys, sorry I missed getting in on this earlier. This is the subwoofer I installed. http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/product.jsp?productTypeId=45&sortBy=price&pageId=2&productId=2398
It is the Kenwood KFC-W1705. I posted more info on my speaker upgrades in other posts too. Basically the Kenwood fits in the enclosure without any modifications. It sounds better, doesnt bottom out, and complements the other speaker upgrades I made. Any other questions, fire away.

[merc]

Hi guys, sorry I missed getting in on this earlier. This is the subwoofer I installed. http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/product.jsp?productTypeId=45&sortBy=price&pageId=2&productId=2398
It is the Kenwood KFC-W1705. I posted more info on my speaker upgrades in other posts too. Basically the Kenwood fits in the enclosure without any modifications. It sounds better, doesnt bottom out, and complements the other speaker upgrades I made. Any other questions, fire away.

Not to start a problem, but the Kenwood you list is not a subwoofer and Kenwood doesn't make a 6' or 6.5 sub. Your chooses are JL and Rockford if you are looking for a SUBWOOFER to fit in you factory box.

[67435animal]

Not to start a problem, but the Kenwood you list is not a subwoofer and Kenwood doesn't make a 6' or 6.5 sub. Your chooses are JL and Rockford if you are looking for a SUBWOOFER to fit in you factory box.

Just looking for a clean fit. I know the RF model 4406 fits with mods. I am unaware of anything from JL Audio that will fit. Tell me more.

Bob

[merc]

What I was able to find was 2 very interesting subs, JL Audio (http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/6w0.html) and Rockford. They both have similar dimensions and sound when using the factory amp. I choose the Rockford sub because of cost. This is not a simple bolt in modification, but little work is needed to make them fit. While we are on this subject of upgrading subwoofers, lets spend some time on amps. The factory amp will power your 6.5 sub , but adding volume makes them muddy and distorted. Spend some money and time to replace the factory amp and subwoofer is a better idea. I rewired the power leads from the battery to the amp with Monster Amplifier Connection kit (http://www.monstercable.com/caraudio1/productPageCar.asp?pin=1350), then mounted the new amplifier in the factory location. What a major improvement in all volume levels. I don't have pictures of the installation yet because the car is covered with snow. I am still using the factory head unit, but upgraded the front and rear speakers, check signature. Next on my list of sound modifications is Dynamat 19105X in the trunk. Don’t get me wrong; I am not looking to blow the neighbors away with ghetto sound. A 6.5 subwoofer under any amplification will not win a bass contest. What this upgrade will provide is great punch .

[joflewbyu2]

merc, the kenwood kfc-w1705 is indeed a subwoofer. it is listed under subwoofers in kenwood's literature and website. See page 22 from their literature. I heard them in the past and they are good. no comparison to my 3 jl 12w3's I had in my other car, but if 6.5" is the largest round speaker it does one of the best jobs I have heard. It is efficient, polypropelyne, 4 layer vented voice coil, butyl rubber surround etc.

[merc]

merc, the kenwood kfc-w1705 is indeed a subwoofer. it is listed under subwoofers in kenwood's literature and website. See page 22 from their literature. I heard them in the past and they are good. no comparison to my 3 jl 12w3's I had in my other car, but if 6.5" is the largest round speaker it does one of the best jobs I have heard. It is efficient, polypropelyne, 4 layer vented voice coil, butyl rubber surround etc.

The Kenwood speaker is a MIDWOOFER but listed on Kenwood’s site as a subwoofer. There is a major difference between it and the Rockford. The Kenwood is going to be more efficient because of it's 90db sensitivity rating. Look closer at the frequency response and that determines if the speaker is a Mid-bass or a sub. The Kenwood may have a lower Hz number, but look at its high 3.5 KHz side. This frequency places it in the Mid-bass category. A subwoofer is never rated with a frequency range inside the KHz spectrum. I am not arguing that the Kenwood’s don't sound good, but let's call them what they are, a Mid-Bass speaker.

Rockford:

25-ounce magnet
1-3/4" voice coil with aluminum former
frequency response 58-250 Hz
power range 30-150 watts RMS
peak power handling 300 watts
sensitivity 84 dB
4-ohm impedance

Kenwood:

Bumped Yoke
Extended Pole Piece: Vented
Frequency Response: 30Hz - 3.5kHz
Impedance: 4 ohms
Magnet Weight: 12 oz
One-Piece Cone Design
Pearl Mica Injection-Molded Polypropylene Cone: 6-1/2" Tornado-Type
Power Handling: 250 Watts
Sensitivity: 90dB
Speaker Connectors: Gold-Plated, 2-Way SB-Type
Urethane Surround
Vented Voice Coil: 4-Layer

[FordNut]

But doesn't the crossover network prevent the higher frequencies from going to the woofer? And the Kenwood does have a frequency response rating that goes to lower frequencies than the Rockford. However, IF the Kenwood were tested at the 30-250 Hz range limits it may not have 90 dB sensitivity. So there's the rub: testing was not done to the same standards so specs are basically useless. Install it and see how it sounds, that's the only real test that matters anyway.

[67435animal]

Merc, just to clarify the Rockford that you isntalled. It is the RF Punch HE RFP4406, correct? You can't beat the price of 44.95!

Bob

[merc]

Merc, just to clarify the Rockford that you isntalled. It is the RF Punch HE RFP4406, correct? You can't beat the price of 44.95!

Bob

Yep, that's the one.

[merc]

But doesn't the crossover network prevent the higher frequencies from going to the woofer? And the Kenwood does have a frequency response rating that goes to lower frequencies than the Rockford. However, IF the Kenwood were tested at the 30-250 Hz range limits it may not have 90 dB sensitivity. So there's the rub: testing was not done to the same standards so specs are basically useless. Install it and see how it sounds, that's the only real test that matters anyway.

Ford Nut, I agree, the bottom line is enjoyment. I just wanted to point out some of the technical differences between the two speakers. As you stated “Placing crossover network prevents the higher frequencies from going to the woofer”, but that alone doesn’t determine sub frequency handling capability. The voice coil core and magnet in conjunction with the amplifier, controls the speaker’s ability to handle a lower frequency. You can place a sub frequency crossover on a 6x9 (or any non sub woofer) speaker and turn up the gain slowly and watch the voice coal burn up or speaker slap uncontrollably against the magnet as a test.

[joflewbyu2]

got tired of guessing so i pulled the sub box out of the car. took pics with my sprintpcs camera phone that and downloaded them so excuse the quality of the pics. if you look at the sub from the top it looks like the sub was bottom mounted from inside the enclosure. well, it isn't. unscrew the 4 torx screws and the top collar comes off. the sub lies flat on a foam insulation ring. the opening is 5.75" across and the holes are exactly 6" across in a + pattern. i ordered the kenwood sub so i will let you all know after i receive the kfc-1705 (which is either a 6", 6.5" or 6.75" sub in an oversized 6.75" basket). according to crutchfield the kenwood oversized 6.75 speakers need a 5 11/16 hole. so i hope i am right on the nose even with all the conflicting info from kenwood. the subs comes in a pair so after i get them and confirm fit and benefit, is there anyone out there that wants to buy the 2nd one for $55 shipped.

[joflewbyu2]

http://pictures.sprintpcs.com/?sivt=BEA4JWJq7m8Q0k677opx
http://pictures.sprintpcs.com/?sivt=UEG4J2JE7manwLzUa8Hh
http://pictures.sprintpcs.com/?sivt=tEb4JSJh7mamEYVL7UD0

[67435animal]

Yep, that's the one.

OK, now it seems we have three choices that will 'fit':

* Rockford Fosgate Punch HE RFP4406 available for 44.95 each at www.sounddomain.com

* Kenwood KFC-W1703 available for 99.00 each at www.onlinecarstereo.com

* Kenwood KFC-W1705 available for 99.90 (cannot tell whether it's each or pair) at http://shop.store.yahoo.com/discountsonline/. My guess is that the 1705 has replaced the 1703 since it is not listed on the Kenwood site. MI2QWK4U has installed this speaker and it will fit with no modifications.

The RF Punch is a subwoofer for sure. The two Kenwoods may be what is known as Mid-Subs. Whose ears can tell? Not mine! Is it important? I dunno. The Kenwood fits with no mods! This is a major benefit over the RF 4406.

I am going to order either the Kenwood 1705 or the RF 4406 in the next few days.

This is a blast!

Bob

[valleyman]

Merc - can you give me a little info on the Yamaha YPA 600 amp that you installed, please? Why did you choose it? Is it a mono subwoofer amp? Did you install it as a replacement for the OEM subwoofer amp that's attached to the OEM subwoofer enclosure in the trunk? (IS the amp in the trunk just powering the subwoofer?) What power range would you recommend as an upgrade for the subwoofer amp? I have no desire to shake the neighborhood either, but it sounds like the sub is underpowered to me. Any help to a car stereo novice like me would be mucho appreciated.

[67435animal]

Merc - can you give me a little info on the Yamaha YPA 600 amp that you installed, please? Why did you choose it? Is it a mono subwoofer amp? Did you install it as a replacement for the OEM subwoofer amp that's attached to the OEM subwoofer enclosure in the trunk? (IS the amp in the trunk just powering the subwoofer?) What power range would you recommend as an upgrade for the subwoofer amp? I have no desire to shake the neighborhood either, but it sounds like the sub is underpowered to me. Any help to a car stereo novice like me would be mucho appreciated.

All excellent questions. This thread could become a long term keeper.

Bob

[merc]

All excellent questions. This thread could become a long term keeper.

Bob

To best answer your questions I need to go back in history, around 14 years ago. Yamaha has not produced a car stereo line in ages, but the same or similar design concept goals are with us today. I purchased 2 Yamaha YPA 600 amps for a car stereo design that was never completed. So these amps sat in sealed containers for most of their lives. I still have the Yamaha brochure from that year and it features a Porsche 924 in its advertisement. Old school amplifiers were designed for cassette decks and AM/FM tuners. Frequency responses and dynamic ranges were very limited because of the source. With the evolution of the Compact Disc the equation changed thus creating a wave of less expensive Home Audio and Car Stereo. When was the last time you saw a Macintosh, Tandberg, Denon, Mark Levinson, Caviar stereo systems at your local dealer? They still live in trade magazines and some high-end stores, but for the most part, we don’t need expensive amplifiers to power our digital technology.

Now that you have some history let’s move on. I have two surplus amplifiers that needed a home, but would also fit the bill for the Marauder audio upgrade. What I was looking for was stealth in the interior and truck compartments. I wanted to retain the factory head because it was the first indication of an upgraded system. Car Stereo thieves are always on the look for clues. The next goal was to keep the cost low, but increase the quality and retain the factory sub enclosure. The YPA 600 has a switch selection for Mono (150 watt RMS at 0.01 THD 4 ohm) or 2-channel mode 50/50. It also has a built-in electronic crossover for sub-sonic ranges between 80-200 Hz with gain control. With that power rating and mono capability it looked like a perfect mate for a 6.5 subwoofer. Once I removed the 4 bolts that retain the factory subwoofer enclosure I removed the silver OEM amp. The OEM amp is much smaller then the Yamaha and new screw points were needed to attach the amp to the existing enclosure, but that was not a problem. I was able to fit the new amp directly were the old amp lived, and that was the plan. If you are using an upgraded woofer (sub or Mid) and retain the OEM amp you are underpowered. Any replacement mono amp should be considered that has a minimum of 150 watts X 1 and can be drilled into the OEM amp location. Alpine ( MRP-M3500, Retail 199.99) should fit the bill nicely without exceeding your budget. Keep in mind, You must use a line output converter to connect an amp without speaker-level inputs to a receiver without preamp outputs. High-level signals from the receiver are converted into preamp-level signals, which can then be amplified and sent to the speakers or a single sub. The cost of this device can range between 19 to 29 dollars.

Yamaha YPA 600 Specifications

Continuous Power Output (per channel, 4 ohms, both channels driven.)
(at 1kHz, with 0.03% THD with 80kHz L.P.F.) 150x 1
(at 1kHz, with 0.01% THD with 80kHz L.P.F.) 100x 1
(at 1kHz, with 0.01% THD with 80kHz L.P.F.) 50x 2

Speaker Impedance 4 to 8 ohms
Frequency Response 30 to 20kHz +/- 3db
Signal-to Noise Ratio (IHF-A) 90 db
Input Sensitivity/Impedance 0.2 to5V/10 kohms
Subwoofer Crossover Frequency 80 or 200 Hz : low pass 12db/oct.
Weight 2.7 kgs (5 lbs 15 0z)
Dimensions (W x H x D) 212 x 75 x 244 mm

:argue:

[joflewbyu2]

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-hAk3A4fCGF0/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?i=113W1705

[HwyCruiser]

I finally received my RFP4406 after 3 weeks+ on backorder from SoundDomain.com (but for $56 incl. shipping, I'm not complaining too much).

I took valleyman's advice and used the torch method to push out the enclosure side to fit the larger coil and so I could use the factory thread inserts and line the speaker back up to the stock location. I also vented the enclosure per Rockford Fosgate's installation recommendations to gain efficiency power. As an additional "let's see if this helps" step, I cleaned up the grounding point for the sub's amp.

Here's the after pic:
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/1594Modified_sub_enclosure_rei nstalled-med.JPG
There's other pics of the installation in the gallery.

The verdict? The results are satisfactory for the relatively small investment of time and money. Did the bass all of a sudden become booming? No, but the improvement in output did cause my dealer's licence plate frame to start rattling enough to become "decontented", and more importantly, I can now hear the bass drums much more clearer.

The wimpy OEM amp will be the next to go. The RFP4406 is rated to 150W RMS, which I doubt if the factory setup pushes 20% of that. The power wire to the amp is maybe 18-20 gauge, so power will have to be run from the front. I'll see if I can live with the new but underdriven sub for a whie.

[HwyCruiser]

Links to some of the other pics so you don't have to dig around the gallery:

Subwoofers side view:
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/1594RFP4406_vs_OEM_side-med.JPG

Subwoofers top view:
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/1594RFP4406_vs_OEM_top-med.JPG

Enclosure torch mod:
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/1594Modified_sub_enclosure_bas e-med.JPG

Enclosure port:
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/1594Ported-vented_OEM_sub_enclosure-med.JPG

[03SILVERSTREAK]

I finally received my RFP4406 after 3 weeks+ on backorder from SoundDomain.com (but for $56 incl. shipping, I'm not complaining too much).

I took valleyman's advice and used the torch method to push out the enclosure side to fit the larger coil and so I could use the factory thread inserts and line the speaker back up to the stock location. I also vented the enclosure per Rockford Fosgate's installation recommendations to gain efficiency power. As an additional "let's see if this helps" step, I cleaned up the grounding point for the sub's amp.

Here's the after pic:
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/1594Modified_sub_enclosure_rei nstalled-med.JPG
There's other pics of the installation in the gallery.

The verdict? The results are satisfactory for the relatively small investment of time and money. Did the bass all of a sudden become booming? No, but the improvement in output did cause my dealer's licence plate frame to start rattling enough to become "decontented", and more importantly, I can now hear the bass drums much more clearer.

The wimpy OEM amp will be the next to go. The RFP4406 is rated to 150W RMS, which I doubt if the factory setup pushes 20% of that. The power wire to the amp is maybe 18-20 gauge, so power will have to be run from the front. I'll see if I can live with the new but underdriven sub for a whie.
Very good work HwyCruiser and good pics. I intend to the same thing but due to the extreme cold weather I had to put it off. our weather adviser says that the temp: will be in the mid 40s so tomorrow looks like a good day to try the sub upgrade but will use the kenwood KFC-W1705. I had tried the RFP4406 7-months ago and did not fit, until a bright idea came about(Valleyman)but I had already sent it back. Judging on whats has been reported on the sound Quality, I will let you know how it sounds with the kenwood and if its also underpowered or not.:cool:

[valleyman]

HwyCruiser - glad that the "pyro-form" technique worked for you. I didn't vent my enclosure. Can you tell if the venting made that much difference over and above the difference made by the speaker swap itself? And what material is that that you used for the vent tube? I'm looking for anything to improve the bass response, although I too think the problem is one of simply being woefully underpowered. Thanks from one who is very ignorant in this area.

[THE_INTERCEPTOR]

you could always just throw 2 12" subs in the trunk

:coolman:

[HwyCruiser]

Valleyman - "pyro-form," I like it :beer:.

I pugged the vent and the bass definately muffles / muddles. I didn't try just replacing the subwoofer first for a true comparison.

The theory is to let the cone push air on both sides, gaining efficiency - amplifying the sound output (as much as twice) at the tuning frequency, but at the cost of filtering out lower frequencies. There's pros and cons to both sealed and vented enclosures, so it largely depends on your listening preferences and your willingness to experiment. If your looking to rattle the screws loose and annoy the neighbors, It'll cost you a better part of a grand to get a good 12 incher (or two) and the monster amp needed to drive the bass properly down to 25Hz. I'm going the cheapo route to get "just good enough" for my taste... I'm spending the money on gears and a chip.

As for the port, I used a 8-5/8" length of 2" schedule 40 PVC pipe purchased from Home Depot, using a 2-3/8" hole saw to clear the outside diameter. This port will tune the enclosure to the 55-65Hz range, which is just about right for the 6.5" sub in the factory enclosure. Both port ends need to be "bell mouthed" or curved smoothly around the inside edges. Keep the port 2" away from the inside wall. Even though there's now a big tube sticking out of the enclosure, make sure to seal around the port well. Epoxy does the trick to seal around the port and hold it in place.

Hope this helps if you decide to give it a shot.

[joflewbyu2]

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-Otcq5ykORuh/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=52200&I=575FRC3268&o=m&a=0&cc=01&avf=N

[HwyCruiser]

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-Otcq5ykORuh/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=52200&I=575FRC3268&o=m&a=0&cc=01&avf=N

"Rockford Fosgate FRC3268 6"x8" 2-way Speakers
Special Purchase: Save $60! Was $99.99, Now: $39.99
Mica-filled polypropylene woofer • polyethermide semi-dome tweeter • power range 8-60 watts RMS"

You're singing my tune :banana2:. I just ordered them. I'll post an opinion once I get them in.

[valleyman]

HwyCruiser - thanks for the info on porting the enclosure. I think I'll give it a try as soon as I get my MM back (I loaned it to a friend for a couple of weeks, or for however long it takes the bodyshop to repair his M-whatever BMW that he 360d into a freeway berm). I figure if I don't like the porting I can always just close up the hole.

Like you, I'm not interested in rattling the screws loose, I just want it to sound more, well, musical. And from what others have posted here that may very well mean a more powerful amp for the subwoofer. Which reminds me - thanks Merc for responding to my queries about the Yamaha 600. I'm not sure I completely understand the architecture of the circuit as far as whether it's pre-amp level in and speaker level out, but when I get to buying one I'll ask the knowledgable ones here first. Lotta knowledge on this site.

[HwyCruiser]

Valleyman, nice of you to loan out your ride, but to a guy who just spun his beemer out into a freeway burm???

Just wanted to get back to the FRC3268's that joflewbyu2 pointed me to. They sound great! Excellent mid-range bass. Just watch out for the polarity. I posted this on the "Speaker Installation..." thread.

-JD

[valleyman]

HwyCruiser - I had to loan him my MM, he doesn't have another ride and I do, a Moto Guzzi and my friend doesn't know how to ride a scooter. And since he's a BMW chauvinist I wanted him to experience what it's like to drive a car that weighs more than a rollerskate and can still accelerate. Plus, in a bit of schadenfreude I admit,his car hydroplaned on the freeway at only 70mph and I like asking him, "Hey, George, what's it like driving a car in the rain that doesn't change lanes all by itself, or was that some kind of high-end German technology that your car was suppossed to do all by itself?" He-he-he.

More to the point, when I finally get the MM back (assuming my friend doesn't want to buy it from me) I think I'm going with the infinity reference 6800cs speakers in the front because of the remote tweeter that I can mount in the sail panel. Also, I want to experiment with the port in the subwoofer to see if I can get it to vent in the passenger compartment instead of the trunk. This will no doubt be a challenge given the short length of the porting tube.

[valleyman]

Valleyman - "pyro-form," I like it :beer:.

I pugged the vent and the bass definately muffles / muddles. I didn't try just replacing the subwoofer first for a true comparison.

The theory is to let the cone push air on both sides, gaining efficiency - amplifying the sound output (as much as twice) at the tuning frequency, but at the cost of filtering out lower frequencies. There's pros and cons to both sealed and vented enclosures, so it largely depends on your listening preferences and your willingness to experiment. If your looking to rattle the screws loose and annoy the neighbors, It'll cost you a better part of a grand to get a good 12 incher (or two) and the monster amp needed to drive the bass properly down to 25Hz. I'm going the cheapo route to get "just good enough" for my taste... I'm spending the money on gears and a chip.

As for the port, I used a 8-5/8" length of 2" schedule 40 PVC pipe purchased from Home Depot, using a 2-3/8" hole saw to clear the outside diameter. This port will tune the enclosure to the 55-65Hz range, which is just about right for the 6.5" sub in the factory enclosure. Both port ends need to be "bell mouthed" or curved smoothly around the inside edges. Keep the port 2" away from the inside wall. Even though there's now a big tube sticking out of the enclosure, make sure to seal around the port well. Epoxy does the trick to seal around the port and hold it in place.

Hope this helps if you decide to give it a shot.
I just finished porting mine per your description and the difference is amazing! Additionally I drilled a 2" hole in the rear bracket that holds the amp/subwoofer assembly so the port end wasn't firing right into that vertical wall of metal. It helped. Also, while I was in there I pulled out the package tray and cut a hole completely through it, removing all of that perforated tray area that was covering the subwoofer. I cut a hole the size of the speaker through the remaining fabric that covers the package tray and threw it away. There is now nothing between the subwoofer cone and the interior of the car except the "custom" speaker grill I made.
I went to a wrecking yard and pulled a speaker cover out of a early 90's Town Car -- it's angled just like the ones in the MM and even has the same metal grill. I painted the plastic angled part with the interior paint that Logan told me he used when he put in his tranny temp guage. Four sheet metal screws later and - voila! - it's attached to the package tray, is the same charcol gray as the rest of the interior, and the grill material is an exact match with the two other original speaker grills sitting on the package tray. Worked out real well and now there is nothing but an acoustic grill between the subwoofer cone and my ears.
Thanks for the info on the porting Hwycruiser; it was easy following your lead.

[HwyCruiser]

Valleyman,

Glad to hear that you found that porting the enclosure helped. Grill out of a Town Car eh? Can you post a pic? I might see if Ray can get me one of those.

My sub enclosure started to rattle :fire:. I unplugged the #@$ thing until I could get back into the trunk and see what's loose. I'll try the foam trick between the enclosure and the bottom of the package tray and probably use some lock washers just for good measure. I'll also drill out the bracket, thanks for the tip.

Since unplugging the sub amp, I've been feeling pretty happy with the Rockford Fosgate Punch FRC3268 6x8's I swapped out the original speakers with. They thump pretty good by themselves. As soon as I get motivated again I'm going to swap out the factory amp with a Rockford Fosgate 201S to drive the sub properly, 200W @ 4 ohms bridged. The biggest PITA is going to be running the power, 10 gauge @ 20A.

-JD

[valleyman]

HwyCruiser - I can't post a picture right now because, being a techno-peasant, I don't have a digital camera (hell, my pre-amplifier still has tubes in it). I know my partner has one though, and I'll borrow it from her later this week --- who am I kidding?--- I'll have her come over and take the pictures. And then the two of us will see if we can figure out how to post them.

[03SILVERSTREAK]

I have finally done it. with the weather in the upper 50's , I removed the factory subwoofer and installed the Kenwood KFC-W1705 6-1/2 subwoofer as well as the filler thats placed inside a box to enhance (makes it sound like a bigger box) the Lows and to finalize the mod , I also installed a 2" diameter by 4" long subwoofer port to give the subwoofer a much Puncher sound. I directed the tube to face against the side of the corner to give it more Thump in the trunk. I posted some pictures in the gallery for those that are interested in trying this mod. I will say that Im very happy with the way It came out and the way it sounds. No more vibrations or distortions or muffled sound when turned up. hope this helps those out who want to try this or gives you new ideas...

[HwyCruiser]

ADELG670,

Browsed your pics, good job! That's where I was first going to place the port. The length I chose (went with Rockford Fosgate's recommendation) made me go up to the top and to the side. Where did you get the pre-fabbed port? Looks like that's the way to go instead of my Home Depot special.

With that length of port, you're probably tuned for 70Hz or so. Probably a good choice for your mid-woofer paired up with the factory amp. Plus that way it's hidden away.

Here's a link to a handy port length calculator for those who want to do what-if's:
http://www.loudspeakers101.com/VentCal1.htm

Our enclosures are just about 0.35 cubed ft, reduced a bit by the filler you added.

Glad to read that you're happy with the mod.

-JD

[03SILVERSTREAK]

I have finally done it. with the weather in the upper 50's , I removed the factory subwoofer and installed the Kenwood KFC-W1705 6-1/2 subwoofer as well as the filler thats placed inside a box to enhance (makes it sound like a bigger box) the Lows and to finalize the mod , I also installed a 2" diameter by 4" long subwoofer port to give the subwoofer a much Puncher sound. I directed the tube to face against the side of the corner to give it more Thump in the trunk. I posted some pictures in the gallery for those that are interested in trying this mod. I will say that Im very happy with the way It came out and the way it sounds. No more vibrations or distortions or muffled sound when turned up. hope this helps those out who want to try this or gives you new ideas...As you may or may not know in my signature I have a 300B MM in which I don't have the factory preminum speaker Grills on the rear deck , so after picking up an unused rear package tray from a C.V. I cutout my package tray and mounted the speaker grills as well as the subwoofer grill . I felt that the material that was used for the rear package tray was not allowing the speakers to sound their best since it was like placing a sponge in front of the speakers something like the sponge-like object they placed inside the factory subwoofer . without having to crank the sound loud , the modification worked out well with no vibration of the rear package tray and cleaner bass . Pics posted in the gallery . :rock:

[SILVERMARAUDER]

As you may or may not know in my signature I have a 300B MM in which I don't have the factory preminum speaker Grills on the rear deck , so after picking up an unused rear package tray from a C.V. I cutout my package tray and mounted the speaker grills as well as the subwoofer grill . I felt that the material that was used for the rear package tray was not allowing the speakers to sound their best since it was like placing a sponge in front of the speakers something like the sponge-like object they placed inside the factory subwoofer . without having to crank the sound loud , the modification worked out well with no vibration of the rear package tray and cleaner bass . Pics posted in the gallery . :rock:
that is just what i needed to see thanks silverstreak now i just need to find a 6.5 sub and i am in like flin! having a hard time on that :banana:

[muzzo]

Hiya Merc, do you still have a Yamaha YPA-600 amp sitting around?

[muzzo]

Hiya Merc,

Do you still have a yamaha YPA-600 sitting around?

[03SILVERSTREAK]

Old thread alert!!!