Proud after Vancouver hockey riots

[Taemian]

I doubt it was sore losers doing the bulk of it and i doubt the fans in the building had much to do with it either.

This article contends it was people coming prepared for action, win or lose. Also see the 'post your pics here for all to identify' sites starting up.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Rioters+exposed+social+network s/4962845/story.html

:beer:

(I lifted this quote from another thread to start this one.)

That is exactly correct. A few idiots ruined it for everyone, and some stupid onlookers egged them on. We ran the best winter olympics in 30 years, won the most gold medals of any country there (including hockey!) and had no crowd problems. VPD brass deserves to get ass-***** for the lack of planning and head-in-the-sand attitude here, but the actual guys on the lines did a great job.

You guys can slag about the city all day, but I'm afraid you'd mostlikely be wrong, and I'll provide the evidence. Not only did social media sites start posting photos for police to help IDing offenders mere hours after the events, but three more things happened that I've never seen in ANY city after a sports riot.

1)http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/242253--vpd-cruiser-covered-with-notes-of-gratitude

People throughout Vancouver covered police cars with sticky-notes thanking the officers for keeping them safe, for their service amidst the rioting. The idea started out with one police car in the affected riot area, and the notion spread via texting so squads all over town were "labeled". Show me that in any other city!:D


2)http://www.vancouverite.com/2011/06/18/parents-turn-in-their-own-kid-for-looting-louis-vuitton-store-in-vancouver/

Not likely to see THAT in most other major cities on the continent. Even if the kids were stupid, the parents step up.:cool4:



3)http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/1009816--thousands-volunteer-online-to-clean-up-vancouver-s-riot-mess?bn=1

Over FIVE THOUSAND regular citizens who had nothing to do with the rioting showed up the next moring to help the city cleaning crews with the mess. Over ELEVEN THOUSAND signed up to help, but space and crew oversight was an issue.



Just like you can love your country but hate your government, I have faith in both the stupidity of a small number of idiots to cause problems, and the 97% of decent people in Vancouver who show what we're really all about.

[sailsmen]

Goes to the old saying only a few rotten apples ruin the whole barrel.

Saw the same thing after Katrina. You had 25K "clueless/helpless" and ~2,500 "looters/criminals". The attention was on the ~2,500 and not the tens of thousands who risked their lives, safety and/or freedom to help strangers.

What it demonstrates is that a small number of criminals can brutalize a large unarmed population.

[freakstatus]

Well said Ian. What I also found amazing was the footage of the brave few who tried to stop it. Guys were blocking windows, trying to stop cars from being flipped and burned and helping cops side by side.

[Taemian]

................

[GAMike]

(I lifted this quote from another thread to start this one.)

That is exactly correct. A few idiots ruined it for everyone, and some stupid onlookers egged them on. We ran the best winter olympics in 30 years, won the most gold medals of any country there (including hockey!) and had no crowd problems. VPD brass deserves to get ass-***** for the lack of planning and head-in-the-sand attitude here, but the actual guys on the lines did a great job.

You guys can slag about the city all day, but I'm afraid you'd mostlikely be wrong, and I'll provide the evidence. Not only did social media sites start posting photos for police to help IDing offenders mere hours after the events, but three more things happened that I've never seen in ANY city after a sports riot.

1)http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/242253--vpd-cruiser-covered-with-notes-of-gratitude

People throughout Vancouver covered police cars with sticky-notes thanking the officers for keeping them safe, for their service amidst the rioting. The idea started out with one police car in the affected riot area, and the notion spread via texting so squads all over town were "labeled". Show me that in any other city!:D


2)http://www.vancouverite.com/2011/06/18/parents-turn-in-their-own-kid-for-looting-louis-vuitton-store-in-vancouver/

Not likely to see THAT in most other major cities on the continent. Even if the kids were stupid, the parents step up.:cool4:



3)http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/1009816--thousands-volunteer-online-to-clean-up-vancouver-s-riot-mess?bn=1

Over FIVE THOUSAND regular citizens who had nothing to do with the rioting showed up the next moring to help the city cleaning crews with the mess. Over ELEVEN THOUSAND signed up to help, but space and crew oversight was an issue.



Just like you can love your country but hate your government, I have faith in both the stupidity of a small number of idiots to cause problems, and the 97% of decent people in Vancouver who show what we're really all about.

I would hazard a couple of bets here Tamien.......

1. Social media is as much an instigator of these situations as they are pacifiers for them. People get so amped about being in the moment, and capturing what they think are unique situations, that the loose all sense of personal responsibility. Its one thing to do it when you are the only one it will effect, but when it effects/manipulates groups the results can be what we see here.

2. I bet they tried at the Olympics at some point.... I will also bet that security for the Olympics was a joint effort of which VPD was a participant. My guess is that specialists were brought in to create and implement a tactical plan that ensured Olympics went off smoothly.

Still though, its good to see other images of the city besides those idiots. Its a beautiful city. I am sure the majority of the people who live there want to keep it that way.

[Taemian]

Well said Ian. What I also found amazing was the footage of the brave few who tried to stop it. Guys were blocking windows, trying to stop cars from being flipped and burned and helping cops side by side.

Agreed. Although I think I'd have only stepped in to matters of personal safety, not property damage. A friend of mine is a camerawoman for CTV, and she got assaulted by some idiot while filming from her platform. The guy climbed up the scaffolding and when she told him to get down, he pushed the camera off her shoulder and punched her in the face.

They had Genesis security guys there, and as they dragged him down, VPD officers turned their backs and walked around the corner of the platform (to deal with some other situation, of course). Seems that the moronic puncher somehow struck every possible crossbar on the way down, and broke the fall with his face. Much to his dismay, ambulances couldn't get through the crowds, so he was detained on site while in much pain and bleeding. Don't mess with Genesis, I guess.

Seriously glad I wasn't present to witness the punch. People hurting children or women puts me in a scary mindset. Maybe that's why I was never posted on general duty for long?

But of course you won't see that on the news, since the camerawoman couldn't film it.

[Taemian]

I would hazard a couple of bets here Tamien.......

1. Social media is as much an instigator of these situations as they are pacifiers for them. People get so amped about being in the moment, and capturing what they think are unique situations, that the loose all sense of personal responsibility. Its one thing to do it when you are the only one it will effect, but when it effects/manipulates groups the results can be what we see here.

2. I bet they tried at the Olympics at some point.... I will also bet that security for the Olympics was a joint effort of which VPD was a participant. My guess is that specialists were brought in to create and implement a tactical plan that ensured Olympics went off smoothly.

Still though, its good to see other images of the city besides those idiots. Its a beautiful city. I am sure the majority of the people who live there want to keep it that way.

Well, social media is no different from a plain, old-fashioned crowd. It's the electronic version of a meandering mob, with some involved just looking for an excuse to vent or cause trouble.

With the Olympics, we had an integrated security setup on so many levels. I was the driver for one of your medal winning atheletes (Shawnee Davis) so I know firsthand the protocols and screenings. I have a great picture he took of me holding his gold medal in my Marauder!

I kept telling my wife as we watched the riot evolve live on local tv, "Don't worry. I'm sure VPD has the 3 main riot Troops suited up over at the Westin-Bayshore in a conference room just waiting to be tapped for activation." VPD was so complacent after the faultless Olympics, and are going to answer some hard questions. I remember the spokesman was discussing his "distaste and displeasure" at the growing riot just over his shoulder in an interview. What he should have said is "There are many ways out of the area if you want to be safe. If you stay out on the downtown core streets, we will agressively and violently confront you." Period.

[GAMike]

Well, social media is no different from a plain, old-fashioned crowd. It's the electronic version of a meandering mob, with some involved just looking for an excuse to vent or cause trouble.
Social media provides instigators a way to organize and display their wares without being in the same physical locale Its old fashioned crowds/flash mobs and instigators all in one.... Alot of folks addicted to their 4G's & social media don't want to be left out. They want to say "I was there" & I experienced it first hand". Even if the "it" is stupid and illegal.

With the Olympics, we had an integrated security setup on so many levels. I was the driver for one of your medal winning atheletes (Shawnee Davis) so I know firsthand the protocols and screenings. I have a great picture he took of me holding his gold medal in my Marauder!

[/QUOTE]I kept telling my wife as we watched the riot evolve live on local tv, "Don't worry. I'm sure VPD has the 3 main riot Troops suited up over at the Westin-Bayshore in a conference room just waiting to be tapped for activation." VPD was so complacent after the faultless Olympics, and are going to answer some hard questions. I remember the spokesman was discussing his "distaste and displeasure" at the growing riot just over his shoulder in an interview. What he should have said is "There are many ways out of the area if you want to be safe. If you stay out on the downtown core streets, we will agressively and violently confront you." Period.[/QUOTE]

I guess my point was, eventhough they participated in an integrated effort, they may not have been privvy to the plan and why things were run the way they were....... They were complacent because they may have been left out of at least some of the planning loop.

You know more than I, because you are there, but my guess is if one studies both events side by side they might come to similar conclusions. Anywho, i'm guessing Vancouver, and Canada will handle things differently in the future. Another by product of social media. The bureaucratic urgency to correct missteps.........

[Taemian]

You're right about social media addiction, sad as it is. And you obviously have more faith in the system than I do. If I've learned anything from history, it's that we never learn anything from history.

Our riots in 94 were exactly the same circumstances (eg last game loss to lose the Cup) and there was tons of media talk about a repeat of history this time around, but the "kinder, gentler" admin that runs VPD now eschews any type of conflict. In short, they're true politicians, not cops. Of course, this is often the case in large metro setups. I watched pagers (remember those?) go off on everyone's belt and saw a steady stream of Code 2's go by back in 94, and this time was alot worse.

A simple 3 step plan would've yielded a no-lose situation even if the riots didn't happen. VPD admin chose to roll the dice, and I hope they pay the price. Most street guys didn't get home til late the following morning, and our ERT (your SWAT) even later because there was no aftermath plan in place either. The simplest boot****ed rookie could've lined up better plans. Monday morning QB-ing is definitely in order here, and I hope something comes out of it.

VPD had to be bailed out by the RCMP from 3 neighbouring detatchments, and also 2 by seperate municipalities (Delta PD and New Wesminster PD). That is and should be a black eye for VPD brass. Lead from the top down or get the hell out of the way.

[GAMike]

You are probably right about VPD Top Brass.... The Olympics operatives probably recognized that too... If they did, they played nice by saying in effect "you guys go here, stand here, and look for this". We will do the rest. Just as in alot of other cities, Brass thinks all they need to do is have a show of force:rolleyes:...... These days people are way more brash and prone to risky behavior. The old methods don't work.


You're right about social media addiction, sad as it is. And you obviously have more faith in the system than I do. If I've learned anything from history, it's that we never learn anything from history.

Our riots in 94 were exactly the same circumstances (eg last game loss to lose the Cup) and there was tons of media talk about a repeat of history this time around, but the "kinder, gentler" admin that runs VPD now eschews any type of conflict. In short, they're true politicians, not cops. Of course, this is often the case in large metro setups. I watched pagers (remember those?) go off on everyone's belt and saw a steady stream of Code 2's go by back in 94, and this time was alot worse.

A simple 3 step plan would've yielded a no-lose situation even if the riots didn't happen. VPD admin chose to roll the dice, and I hope they pay the price. Most street guys didn't get home til late the following morning, and our ERT (your SWAT) even later because there was no aftermath plan in place either. The simplest boot****ed rookie could've lined up better plans. Monday morning QB-ing is definitely in order here, and I hope something comes out of it.

VPD had to be bailed out by the RCMP from 3 neighbouring detatchments, and also 2 by seperate municipalities (Delta PD and New Wesminster PD). That is and should be a black eye for VPD brass. Lead from the top down or get the hell out of the way.

[freakstatus]

Social media? You mean like this web forum? Why don't you guys just pick up a phone and talk...LOL. Taemians phone number is 1-604-haha...he'd kill me.

[Taemian]

Social media? You mean like this web forum? Why don't you guys just pick up a phone and talk...LOL. Taemians phone number is 1-604-haha...he'd kill me.

It's ok, Derek. I'll post it myself.

Just call me at 9-1-1 and say "I have a gun", then hang up. That's special code for "Have Ian stop by my house sometime".:D

We gotta cruise as soon as this rain stops, bro.

[Taemian]

Goes to the old saying only a few rotten apples ruin the whole barrel.

Saw the same thing after Katrina. You had 25K "clueless/helpless" and ~2,500 "looters/criminals". The attention was on the ~2,500 and not the tens of thousands who risked their lives, safety and/or freedom to help strangers.

What it demonstrates is that a small number of criminals can brutalize a large unarmed population.

Agreed!! There were tons of good stories that never got told. Some previous associates of mine were working as security contractors, and saw good stuff happeneing done by regular people. Of course they did some pretty great work themselves considering people were taking shots at fire/rescue/paramedics from roof tops, merely to "stake their claim" while looting. But put the contracting company name out there, and everyone jumps to "mad-dog killer types" images...because of a few rotten apples in their midst as well. Idiots are on every side, it seems.

[sailsmen]

Anarchy spreads like a cold and no group or profession is immune.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/medium/diagram-danziger2-061911jpg-37722c5f58b27770.jpg