Killer Chiller?

[FordNut]

Anybody ever tried it on a Marauder?

I'm thinking seriously about putting one of these in my car. IATs a good bit below ambient. Ought to be able to run a good bit of spark, make a lot of power. Hopefully reduce engine temperature too since there will be better airflow and cooler IAT.

This should work with Trilogy, Eaton Conversion, and Water-Air centrifugal setups.

Basically a heat exchanger connected into the AC system. The standard kit connects them in series, the race kit connects them in parallel and includes a solenoid valve so the cabin air can be shut off to reduce condensation and prevent dripping on the track.

Been talking with the company about what fittings and hoses would be necessary to make it a plug-and-play kit for the MM.

[jstevens]

I have been looking into this as well.

Seen a video on youtube with one on a Mustang. Its either that or shoot alittle nitrous to lower temps. But I don't want to shoot it all day long.

Can't wait to read the opinions.

[Spectragod]

I have considered this as well. I asked Lidio his thoughts on them when I picked up my car, he told me he had only seen one on a Mustang, and the results were not that impressive, he suggested a larger intercooler instead.

[MMBLUE]

Anybody ever tried it on a Marauder?

I'm thinking seriously about putting one of these in my car. IATs a good bit below ambient. Ought to be able to run a good bit of spark, make a lot of power. Hopefully reduce engine temperature too since there will be better airflow and cooler IAT.

This should work with Trilogy, Eaton Conversion, and Water-Air centrifugal setups.

Basically a heat exchanger connected into the AC system. The standard kit connects them in series, the race kit connects them in parallel and includes a solenoid valve so the cabin air can be shut off to reduce condensation and prevent dripping on the track.

Been talking with the company about what fittings and hoses would be necessary to make it a plug-and-play kit for the MM.


Be careful. What ever you do, don't try to market it here. Tha last person who messed with IAT's etc, Got life time :banned:.

[SC Cheesehead]

Be careful. What ever you do, don't try to market it here. Tha last person who messed with IAT's etc, Got life time :banned:.

What's Brian's installation of an aftremarket part on his car got to do with Travis getting banned?

I miss musclemerc too, but this ^^^^^ is just dumb azz pot stirring...:shake:

[MMBLUE]

What's Brian's installation of an aftremarket part on his car got to do with Travis getting banned?

I miss musclemerc too, but this ^^^^^ is just dumb azz pot stirring...:shake:

Your right, Vendor's here don't have that type of thing for sale. It'll pass then. But then again, Travis was doing a true CAI innovation and got the boot for messing with the establishment. "Just sayin"

[jstevens]

Yes, am I'm waiting to hear some feedback on his custom CAI. Might be worth it depending on bang for the buck.

Maybe the vendors here can come up with something.

Gotta luv pot stirring. I can't find the popcorn button.

[MM2004]

Your right, Vendor's here don't have that type of thing for sale. It'll pass then. But then again, Travis was doing a true CAI innovation and got the boot for messing with the establishment. "Just sayin"

Pot stirring, I agree.

That is your opinion, and everybody is entitiled to one.

You haven't a clue as to what went on in the background.

Just sayin'...

Mike.

[DOOM]

Do they come in BLACK?

Any pics???

[F8LBITEva]

I have a buddy with the killer chiller on his lightning. It really isnt enough to affect real life driving but it does help cool down while at the track. If youre looking for that 10th of a second then yeah get it but if its just for weekend spirited driving its probably not worth it.

[Bigdogjim]

Do they come in BLACK?

Any pics???

Don't you mean CHROME!!!

[MMBLUE]

Pot stirring, I agree.

That is your opinion, and everybody is entitiled to one.

You haven't a clue as to what went on in the background.

Just sayin'...

Mike.

Actually, I know more than you think. "Just sayin" But I'll leave it at that. I know when the line is crossed and I'm done. Anyway, how's the weather up there? It's been HOT as heck down here. With that being said, yeah a Killer chiller CAI would be awesome!

[BODYMAN]

Brian, Iam getting ready to order one myself! Zack would be a good person to ask as he just got one for both hisMM and Termi i beleive. Have a friend who has one on his cobra and what another member stated is pretty close to what ive seen. A added benefit at the track and in heavy traffic but realworld driving the only benefit he see's is a little quicker cool down after a WOT on street driving. But heay better then nothing especially for us root's type guys. I already got the larger HE and yes helps a bit but not enough when its 95* out As you know. I will say this I have a added appreciation for my A2A Vortech when its over 95 out

[TAKEDOWN]

Be careful. What ever you do, don't try to market it here. Tha last person who messed with IAT's etc, Got life time :banned:.

Lifetime? Wow... tough crowd! :shake:

[Joe Walsh]

Killer Chiller used to use electric powered heat sinks that served as basically a thermoelectric intercooler.
The only problem was that they took a lot of amps and would quickly get overwhelmed/heatsoaked and became useless on extended runs under boost.
Now they are using that add-on A/C loop to cool the charge.
Not a bad idea, but if it can't keep the temperatures down on an extended run under boost, it's not worth it in my opinion.
For drag racers....maybe for 1/4 mile runs it would be great.

[Taemian]

There is a member from the Seattle area who has one installed. Maybe he can chime in.

[mcgyver59]

Killer chiller.works amazing if you use.the.correct freon. If you use 134a its not so good.
On 90 degree days and multiple wot runs Iat's wont get much over 30 degrees above ambient, if that.
The correct freon is an industrial grade r12....much colder.
If your IAT's are above ambient cruising then you have an install problem, no matter what the ambient temp.

[Joe Walsh]

Killer chiller.works amazing if you use.the.correct freon. If you use 134a its not so good.
On 90 degree days and multiple wot runs Iat's wont get much over 30 degrees above ambient, if that.
The correct freon is an industrial grade r12....much colder.
If your IAT's are above ambient cruising then you have an install problem, no matter what the ambient temp.

Yeah, but the Killer Chiller system piggybacks into your OEM A/C system.
So you are saying that you must convert your existing OEM A/C system to the old (now ridiculously expensive) R12 freon??

[FordNut]

It does piggyback the OEM system, which is similar to the setup with SUV's which have the rear air conditioning system. If connected the "standard" KC way, the two systems are in series, so the cabin air loses some efficiency. With the drag kit, they are connected in parallel, with an orifice in the OEM system and an expansion valve in the KS system. The OEM SUV setups do the same thing, connect in parallel with an orifice tube on one system and expansion valve for the other.

[Mr. Man]

I'm trying to follow this but I know you guys are discussing way over my level of knowledge.
If I'm getting this you are trying to keep your intake cool after a drag race. I see a lot of guys using ice to cool their intakes. Seems like ice would be a cheaper way to go.
I may be missing the whole point but I'll follow along and maybe something will click.:)

[Joe Walsh]

I'm trying to follow this but I know you guys are discussing way over my level of knowledge.
If I'm getting this you are trying to keep your intake cool after a drag race. I see a lot of guys using ice to cool their intakes. Seems like ice would be a cheaper way to go.
I may be missing the whole point but I'll follow along and maybe something will click.:)

Actually they're trying to keep the S/C's heat exchanger, which is mounted under the blower/on top of the intake manifold, (PD style S/C) as cool as possible.
The Killer Chiller is an additional cooling system for any air-to-water intercooled supercharger.
It is installed in series with the existing front mounted intercooler/radiator.
After the coolant in the intercooler system has run through the front heat exchanger it then runs through the Killer Chiller to cool the water below ambient temperatures.
The Killer Chiller uses the car's A/C system to cool a large heat sink that the coolant is piped through.

[WI Fordguy]

My 94 cougar with the AED blower could have used something like that. Giant heat factory under that hood.

[O's Fan Rich]

Looked at it too.
But since I had the Snow injection system, i really did not think it would be needed.

[babbage]

It does piggyback the OEM system, which is similar to the setup with SUV's which have the rear air conditioning system. If connected the "standard" KC way, the two systems are in series, so the cabin air loses some efficiency. With the drag kit, they are connected in parallel, with an orifice in the OEM system and an expansion valve in the KS system. The OEM SUV setups do the same thing, connect in parallel with an orifice tube on one system and expansion valve for the other.


This kit looks pretty good for the track.

http://www.designengineering.com/catalog/cryo2-system-components

Cool the fuel, then your intercooler etc. Compressed oxygen tank in the trunk.

[jstevens]

Another question experts. So a roots we know is a heat maker, a centri not so much but I just read the review of the BMW 650i which has twin turbos.

Do twin turbos get heat soaked or affected by the heat?

Curious if I ever run up against one on a hot day.

[Vortech347]

If you're using it for one 1/4 mile blast at a time I can see it working well. But making several repeated passes its gonna get up to normal temps quickly.

Every boosted car is susceptible to heat soak. Compressed air is heated regardless the method. Once the air reaches certain temps timing must be pulled because the hotter air will ignite the air/fuel mixture early causing detonation/pre-ignition and exploding hypernutectic pistons like the bad guy in terminator 2.

[BODYMAN]

Another question experts. So a roots we know is a heat maker, a centri not so much but I just read the review of the BMW 650i which has twin turbos.

Do twin turbos get heat soaked or affected by the heat?

Curious if I ever run up against one on a hot day.

Turbo's generate heat also and higher IAT;s like a S/C also with turbo's they are notorius for generating under hood heat due to how they work.

[FordNut]

If you're using it for one 1/4 mile blast at a time I can see it working well. But making several repeated passes its gonna get up to normal temps quickly.


I sort of agree, you can't stay in boost for extended times on the street and the 1/4 mile only lasts a few seconds. Once you're out of boost you're not generating nearly as much heat. The AC system is still cooling the water to the intercooler system, and cooling it way below ambient temperature. Overall the IAT's should be lower in virtually all operating conditions. Except road racing or the mile-long timed events. Extended periods of WOT operation is a problem, since the compressor cuts out at WOT.

It really ought to operate similar to adding ice to the tank in a water-air centrifugal setup or a roots setup with a large enough tank for ice-packing between passes.

[RacerX]

Dry ice... :D I still think a small shot (like a 50) is your easy IAT cooler for 1320 runs. imo!

[Vortech347]

I'd still rather just pack ice between runs into the IC box. Because you're not adding a **** ton of weight with the kit.

[FordNut]

My intent is not for racing, it is to reduce IAT temps on the street. They get high when it's 95+ outside...

[RacerX]

Gotcha Brian, makes sense. There's not really any other options than this then is there.

[FordNut]

It'll be nice if it provides temperature control as well as making a little bit more power as a bonus!

[Joe Walsh]

Looked at it too.
But since I had the Snow injection system, i really did not think it would be needed.

Yep,
I think from an expense standpoint, you can't beat Methanol injection....plus you get the 115+ octane hit.

You really only need the extra cool intake charge under boost conditions.

[SC Cheesehead]

My intent is not for racing, it is to reduce IAT temps on the street. They get high when it's 95+ outside...

For sure.

The Type 100 HE I've got on my car does a good job of keeping IAT under 120* as long as ambient is below 90, once ambient starts climbing above that... :shake:

What's worse is heat sink if I shut the car off for a little while and then start it back up. IAT climbs to 140+ and it's tough to get it below the mid-130's.

Would be nice to get that lower for routine street driving.

[BODYMAN]

For sure.

The Type 100 HE I've got on my car does a good job of keeping IAT under 120* as long as ambient is below 90, once ambient starts climbing above that... :shake:

What's worse is heat sink if I shut the car off for a little while and then start it back up. IAT climbs to 140+ and it's tough to get it below the mid-130's.

Would be nice to get that lower for routine street driving.

Yep I got the same HE and pretty much what Ive seen over 90* it seems to be of not much help. Gonna be curious what Brian comes up with us Roots guy's need something during these hot spells.

[Mach1Marauder]

Good God there sure is a lot of misinformation on this thread! LOL!

The Lightning and 03-04 Cobra naturally are the two biggest users of this type of system. They work QUITE WELL in both platforms. I have no idea where Lidio came with his opinion or whether it was conveyed properly.
Both platforms have large capacity AC systems, which is why they perform well. I would suspect the Crown Vic platform would follow lines. It DOES NOT work for the GT500 platform for two reasons, barely adequate AC system and poor air flow across condenser, evident with the drastic increase of head pressures with a closed hood.
The "Killer Chiller" works well when the heat exchanger is eliminated and the chiller is the only source cooling for the intercooler. This is most likely because of the reduced airflow across the condenser from the heat exchanger , even with the chiller being in the last leg before the intercooler.

With all of Kincaid's CURRENT systems, cabin temps are sacrificed. This past week, this changed on the Lightning platform. A customer of ours and Kincaid brought his truck in with a bunch of parts Kincaid had sent. This customer has worked with Kincaid and us to work out the bugs on this idea for 4-5 years. This round of parts flinging was to increase the capacity of the system and help with cabin temp. To be honest, the parts that were sent were almost totally useless, wouldn't fit and no real instructions. The idea was great though, but after discussion with Kincaid, we decided to change the project to a dual switchable system. This system could function in three modes, dual, cabin dedicated and chiller dedicated. After quite a few hours, several totally custom lines made up and new rewiring and new solenoids, the system was ready for evacuation, charging and testing.
In dual mode, both cabin and chiller temps were decreased by quite a large margin. In either cabin or chiller dedicated mode, the decrease in temps were drastic to say the least. So drastic, we recommended to the owner that he change his his intercooler fluid from water and Water Wetter to water and antifreeze! LOL! The cabin temps actually became uncomfortable with vent temps coming out at 36*!:eek: All this is with Arizona Monsoon humidity and 106* temps and using 134A! R12 figures would be quite interesting to say the least.
With all the work designed for functionality and just as importantly, to look stock as possible, you really have to look very closely to tell a deviation from stock, other than foam insulation from the prior Chiller system, since most of the mods are hidden by the fender liner and by being low on the frame rail.
All this boils down to that the idea is very viable if there is large enough system to start with and naturally if well designed.

Strange that I come up on this thread, when all I came here today was to find out how much a Marauder weighs to see if I want to haul one in my race trailer for an ex-girlfriend that asked me to move her from Ft Worth to friggin Salt Lake City area!:shake::shake::shake:

Can anyone tell me what the real stock weight is, vehicle width, wheel base and wheel base width?
Thanks guys!:beer::beer:

[RacerX]

Hey! Good to see you around and that's really good first person information! Curb weight is 4,195lbs if you havn't found that yet. :)

[gdmjoe]

Mach1Marauder ... Can anyone tell me what the real stock weight is, vehicle width, wheel base and wheel base width?
Would you settle for 2004 advertised .....

http://www.gdmjoe.com/marauder/documents/2004mmspecifications.jpg
*Excerpted from the 2004 sales brochure found @ Documents: Mercury Marauder (http://www.gdmjoe.com/marauder/documents.html)

BTW ... There's also a Marketing: 2003 - Specifications document there.
.

[Spectragod]

Good God there sure is a lot of misinformation on this thread! LOL!

The Lightning and 03-04 Cobra naturally are the two biggest users of this type of system. They work QUITE WELL in both platforms. I have no idea where Lidio came with his opinion or whether it was conveyed properly.
Both platforms have large capacity AC systems, which is why they perform well. I would suspect the Crown Vic platform would follow lines. It DOES NOT work for the GT500 platform for two reasons, barely adequate AC system and poor air flow across condenser, evident with the drastic increase of head pressures with a closed hood.
The "Killer Chiller" works well when the heat exchanger is eliminated and the chiller is the only source cooling for the intercooler. This is most likely because of the reduced airflow across the condenser from the heat exchanger , even with the chiller being in the last leg before the intercooler.

With all of Kincaid's CURRENT systems, cabin temps are sacrificed. This past week, this changed on the Lightning platform. A customer of ours and Kincaid brought his truck in with a bunch of parts Kincaid had sent. This customer has worked with Kincaid and us to work out the bugs on this idea for 4-5 years. This round of parts flinging was to increase the capacity of the system and help with cabin temp. To be honest, the parts that were sent were almost totally useless, wouldn't fit and no real instructions. The idea was great though, but after discussion with Kincaid, we decided to change the project to a dual switchable system. This system could function in three modes, dual, cabin dedicated and chiller dedicated. After quite a few hours, several totally custom lines made up and new rewiring and new solenoids, the system was ready for evacuation, charging and testing.
In dual mode, both cabin and chiller temps were decreased by quite a large margin. In either cabin or chiller dedicated mode, the decrease in temps were drastic to say the least. So drastic, we recommended to the owner that he change his his intercooler fluid from water and Water Wetter to water and antifreeze! LOL! The cabin temps actually became uncomfortable with vent temps coming out at 36*!:eek: All this is with Arizona Monsoon humidity and 106* temps and using 134A! R12 figures would be quite interesting to say the least.
With all the work designed for functionality and just as importantly, to look stock as possible, you really have to look very closely to tell a deviation from stock, other than foam insulation from the prior Chiller system, since most of the mods are hidden by the fender liner and by being low on the frame rail.
All this boils down to that the idea is very viable if there is large enough system to start with and naturally if well designed.

Strange that I come up on this thread, when all I came here today was to find out how much a Marauder weighs to see if I want to haul one in my race trailer for an ex-girlfriend that asked me to move her from Ft Worth to friggin Salt Lake City area!:shake::shake::shake:

Can anyone tell me what the real stock weight is, vehicle width, wheel base and wheel base width?
Thanks guys!:beer::beer:

I'll go out on a limb here, what I highlighted is exactly what Lidio told me, that the cabin cooling suffered and it didn't drop the IAT's like he thought it should. Most likely because it was set up without a way to switch it to one or the other.

What you are referring to with solenoids is the hot ticket, THAT set up I would be interested in......

Thanks for the info. :beer:

[FordNut]

Good God there sure is a lot of misinformation on this thread! LOL!

The Lightning and 03-04 Cobra naturally are the two biggest users of this type of system. They work QUITE WELL in both platforms. I have no idea where Lidio came with his opinion or whether it was conveyed properly.
Both platforms have large capacity AC systems, which is why they perform well. I would suspect the Crown Vic platform would follow lines. It DOES NOT work for the GT500 platform for two reasons, barely adequate AC system and poor air flow across condenser, evident with the drastic increase of head pressures with a closed hood.
The "Killer Chiller" works well when the heat exchanger is eliminated and the chiller is the only source cooling for the intercooler. This is most likely because of the reduced airflow across the condenser from the heat exchanger , even with the chiller being in the last leg before the intercooler.

With all of Kincaid's CURRENT systems, cabin temps are sacrificed. This past week, this changed on the Lightning platform. A customer of ours and Kincaid brought his truck in with a bunch of parts Kincaid had sent. This customer has worked with Kincaid and us to work out the bugs on this idea for 4-5 years. This round of parts flinging was to increase the capacity of the system and help with cabin temp. To be honest, the parts that were sent were almost totally useless, wouldn't fit and no real instructions. The idea was great though, but after discussion with Kincaid, we decided to change the project to a dual switchable system. This system could function in three modes, dual, cabin dedicated and chiller dedicated. After quite a few hours, several totally custom lines made up and new rewiring and new solenoids, the system was ready for evacuation, charging and testing.
In dual mode, both cabin and chiller temps were decreased by quite a large margin. In either cabin or chiller dedicated mode, the decrease in temps were drastic to say the least. So drastic, we recommended to the owner that he change his his intercooler fluid from water and Water Wetter to water and antifreeze! LOL! The cabin temps actually became uncomfortable with vent temps coming out at 36*!:eek: All this is with Arizona Monsoon humidity and 106* temps and using 134A! R12 figures would be quite interesting to say the least.
With all the work designed for functionality and just as importantly, to look stock as possible, you really have to look very closely to tell a deviation from stock, other than foam insulation from the prior Chiller system, since most of the mods are hidden by the fender liner and by being low on the frame rail.
All this boils down to that the idea is very viable if there is large enough system to start with and naturally if well designed.

Strange that I come up on this thread, when all I came here today was to find out how much a Marauder weighs to see if I want to haul one in my race trailer for an ex-girlfriend that asked me to move her from Ft Worth to friggin Salt Lake City area!:shake::shake::shake:

Can anyone tell me what the real stock weight is, vehicle width, wheel base and wheel base width?
Thanks guys!:beer::beer:


PM sent on some of my ideas. How did you increase the system capacity? Will Kincaid be incorporating those changes in his system?

[Joe Walsh]

As someone mentioned, you would have to bypass the 'WOT' A/C cut off switch to keep the compressor running all the time.

The old racing/power rule is: "Nothin' is for free"

Now I'm wondering if the HP needed to spin the A/C compressor up to 6500 rpm is more than the HP gained by the reduced IAT temperatures?

Anyone want to venture a guess?

[FordNut]

As someone mentioned, you would have to bypass the 'WOT' A/C cut off switch to keep the compressor running all the time.

The old racing/power rule is: "Nothin' is for free"

Now I'm wondering if the HP needed to spin the A/C compressor up to 6500 rpm is more than the HP gained by the reduced IAT temperatures?

Anyone want to venture a guess?

The WOT A/C cutoff is in the tune, so it would be easy to disable that.

Just a guess, but I suspect the liquid volume in the system is enough that 10-15 seconds of the compressor being off won't result in the water temperature rising a lot.

My concern is spring and fall or nighttime, when you might need a little heat. Winter wouldn't be an issue, if a standard type H/E is still in the system. Gotta have a way to keep the compressor running for the KC, while the rest of the HVAC system is in heat mode. I've already got a solution to bypassing the H/E but not for keeping the compressor running without bypassing the safety interlocks (freon pressure switches, etc).

[jstevens]

This is great information gathering. If we can figure this out it would make a great mod. I'm interested also in the hp loss to run the system.

[DTUB]

Someone needs to figure out how to run the KC without the HE when its hot and the HE without the KC when its colder outside. Something that switches automatically between the two.

[FordNut]

Bypassing the HE I've got figured out. There is a vacuum-operated heater switching valve, normally used on SAAB. Hook up one side to the heat exchanger inlet, the other to a T or Y at the heat exchanger outlet. Hook the diaphragm up to a vacuum solenoid valve, normally used for Ford 4x4 activation. Hook up a switch to 12V and vacuum line with check valve inline to isolate boost and it's good to go.

[DTUB]

Have you come up with a plan to cure the condensation (dripping) issues?
It sounds like youv'e got some pretty good ideas going.

[FordNut]

Have you come up with a plan to cure the condensation (dripping) issues?
It sounds like youv'e got some pretty good ideas going.

Condensation from the cabin side, the solenoid valve we've been referring to will prevent freon flow so it won't be cold and won't drip. Condensation from the KC side, the only fix is to insulate the KC and lines.

I wonder if there is an issue with condensation inside the intake manifold?

[DTUB]

Condensation from the cabin side, the solenoid valve we've been referring to will prevent freon flow so it won't be cold and won't drip. Condensation from the KC side, the only fix is to insulate the KC and lines.

I wonder if there is an issue with condensation inside the intake manifold?
I've asked this question over on the SVTP site and everyone swears its not a problem, but a few years ago I tried running ice water through a horizontily mounted IC on a built Syclone and after 15 minutes of normal driving on a hot and humid day I kicked the head gaskets out after the motor took a big drink while going WOT.
I'm thinking if the IC is mounted vertically then any water will drip out and not hang in the fins.
Anyway you look at it water build up could be an issue if things get cold enough and your just driving normal on a humid day.