54.5 mpg CAFE standard

[Joe Walsh]

54.5 mpg CAFE standard:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110729/CARNEWS/110729856?utm_source=DailyDriv e20110729&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=article1&utm_content=20110729-CAFE_standards_set_to_rise_to_ 54.5_mpg_for_2025&utm_campaign=awdailydrive


Yeah.......right!.....:shake:

I'm all for more fuel efficient technologies, more turbo diesel engine options, etc. but physics is physics.
It requires a given amount of energy to accelerate and motivate a 3 or 4 thousand pound car down the road....not to mention a 6,000 lb truck.

Our Government wants us all to be driving 2 cylinder diesel hybird Smart cars.....:puke:

The only upside to this legislation is that it will eliminate the hordes of distracted, texting, 2 children, soccer moms who insist on driving a 6,000 lb SUV.

[Bigdogjim]

I did read the story yet but, I did see a blip early this week about Obama was going announce Corp. MPG's guidlines (hint new laws) on Friday.

Yeah Joe we should all just get a segway:lol:

[prchrman]

I guess we are going nuclear powered.

[Joe Walsh]

I guess we are going nuclear powered.

I'd like to see this:

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae326/JoeJWalsh/mr-fusion.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae326/JoeJWalsh/MrFusion-1.jpg

[Fosters]

It's all another way to tax us and move us into an environmentalist agenda without us knowing. Manufacturers won't be able to keep up with the cafe requirements; which will result in fines to the government for every vehicle sold, and those will be passed down to us. Also, in an effort to get there, manufacturers will be forced (by higher prices/lower demand on vehicles) to make more and more euro-style shoeboxes...

You can't legislate innovation. While they're at it, might as well pass a law that requires everyone to gain x number of IQ points by year 2020.

God forbid these idiots (politicians on both sides are to be blamed for CAFE standards and EPA regulations) left the market alone, and let the people decide what they want to buy... If I want to get a v10 4x4 suv that gets 12mpg, I will be the one paying for gas... But the market doesn't move the way they want, so it's time to force us into their ideal living standard... I can't stand people who want to impose their ideals and way of living on everyone else.

The Nissan Leaf sold something like 112 (I think) cars so far; they were talking about it on The Car Show...

[Bigdogjim]

Plus I see a huge gas guzzler tax slapped on any vehicle that does not meet to standards.......So solong to any car you might think is fun,cool or one that excites you.

[LANDY]

It's all another way to control us, with 54 mpg cars out there they will raise the gas prices even higher. By then the average guy wont be able to afford to drive his hotrod because gas will be over $10 a gallon.
Basicaly they are forcing us to a tree hugging life, i hope they know how many private business are gonna suffer. The RV industry will go downhill quick boating also and offcourse hotrodding. I guess we are supposed to wake up every sunday and plant flowers in our backyards instead of taking a sunday drive? NOT ME

[Shaijack]

Bicycle is the answer. Get one before they are hot. Our government at work. Thanks, Washington for the help.

[Motorhead350]

Plus I see a huge gas guzzler tax slapped on any vehicle that does not meet to standards.......So solong to any car you might think is fun,cool or one that excites you.

Screw that. I always going to be driving my car. I'll always be driving big cars no matter what. Or buy an Import. I always wanted a GT3.

[Mr. Man]

54 mpg isn't slated until 2025. The CAFE is on some crazy sliding curve anyways. If you reduce the CO2 footprint you can lower the MPG#'s for fleet avg's.

Unfortunately for those of us that like to drive we a far out numbered buy those who find driving a chore. Look for cars to get smarter and more expensive so Joe commuter can eat his breakfast or e-mail while his car drives him to work.

I sense this could be fun for those of us who drive older cars. We can see just how adaptive these so-called smart cars are to the sudden lane change. Hope Joe commuter has a spare shirt at the office as that coffee stain is very visible:lol:

[Motorhead350]

Eric, I couldn't agree with you more. As cars are getting "Smarter" drivers are getting dumber. Back in high school for me a friend of mine had a 1978 Olds Delta 88. He was a little man, but he learned to drive on that tank. The problem with him was he would drive his moms car for a few days (modern Buick) go back to his Olds and forget to turn the headlights on. Saying he was "used" to the other car doing it for him.

I don't use auto headlights at all. When I get in a car I always turn the traction control off (even in winter) and if 4x4 is an option over AWD I will go with 4x4. The more the driver has to operate the smarter the driver is because it will involve more thinking in the operation of the vehicle. SERIOUSLY! Now people are going to need back up senors, camera and this feature that makes your car back off someone on the highway if you leave your curse control on.

Do you know what that means? I know you do. Some bonehead is going to drive a 2003 in 20 years and have trouble driving the darn thing. Whops I backed into a car, why isn't this car slowing down on it's own on the highway???

I can already see it now. :mad2:

[Bigdogjim]

I also find it strange that the state where hot rods kinda got there start has pased some of tuffest emmissions standards in the USA....Yeah I'm talking California.

Go figure:confused:

[Joe Walsh]

I also find it strange that the state where hot rods kinda got there start has pased some of tuffest emmissions standards in the USA....Yeah I'm talking California.

Go figure:confused:

California is a communist state populated by a majority of left wing numbnuts, rich 'tell us how to live' movie stars and just plain old fashioned wackos.
The CARB offices should've be bombed Timothy McVey.

Unfortunately, Maryland is following closely in their footsteps....:mad2:

[Motorhead350]

I also find it strange that the state where hot rods kinda got there start has pased some of tuffest emmissions standards in the USA....Yeah I'm talking California.

Go figure:confused:

I can't believe I am saying this to you, but times change Jim. There is however a way around everything. Of course you might have to keep finding new ways all the time.

[SpartaPerformance]

I just got the new Motor Trend and they have an article on these 50+mpg CAFE standards and guess what!...... It's going to cost the consumer almost $6,500 per car extra to buy one of these fuel efficient vehicles so if you can get a 33mpg Fusion for $25,000 the Obama version will cost almost $31,500. Thanks Obama! :mad2:

[Fosters]

The only upside to this legislation is that it will eliminate the hordes of distracted, texting, 2 children, soccer moms who insist on driving a 6,000 lb SUV.

No offense, but if they choose to drive that 6000lb suv, and pay for the gas themselves, it should be their own damn business. Take issue with texting, distracted, etc, but it's NONE of your business what people drive. I bet you somewhere out there there's a prius driver shaking his head at people driving 4500lb V8 boats... :o

Don't like what they drive, that's fine. But it's their choice, and having that choice matters, even if you don't agree with it.

[sailsmen]

The logical thing is Big Gov't to Legislate samller people. They just need to pass a law that everyone weigh under 100lbs and no more then 1 child per couple.

We will have a smaller foot print and reduce the damage to the World we are all causing.

Good thing the Space Shuttle ended because we have stopped shipping all that water to outerspace! But we still need to conserve water because we cannot figure out where it is all going? We just know we are using too much of it!

[Red91LX]

If/when all the cars get 60+ MPG, the tax revenues from fuel sales will drop significantly. How will the government deal with that???

[Fosters]

If/when all the cars get 60+ MPG, the tax revenues from fuel sales will drop significantly. How will the government deal with that???

Tax by mileage... and that's already started to be approached. :(

[FordNut]

Huge fuel tax increases will come with this. Gotta have the highway maintenance funds.

I guess the taxes based on vehicle miles driven would be the most fair approach, so the electric vehicles don't get a free ride on the backs of us tax-paying gas burners.

[Fosters]

Huge fuel tax increases will come with this. Gotta have the highway maintenance funds.

I guess the taxes based on vehicle miles driven would be the most fair approach, so the electric vehicles don't get a free ride on the backs of us tax-paying gas burners.

The only way they can do that is if they install a GPS on your car... next up, automatically issued speeding tickets... :o

Although, I think the prius crowd will not appreciate paying the same taxes as the hummer crowd... if so, I am getting an H1 :D

[Joe Walsh]

No offense, but if they choose to drive that 6000lb suv, and pay for the gas themselves, it should be their own damn business. Take issue with texting, distracted, etc, but it's NONE of your business what people drive. I bet you somewhere out there there's a prius driver shaking his head at people driving 4500lb V8 boats... :o

Don't like what they drive, that's fine. But it's their choice, and having that choice matters, even if you don't agree with it.

Yeah, but they don't need a 6,000 lb truck when a Minivan gets the job done in a better and more efficient manner.
It's just that SUVs became the 'new station wagon' 15 years ago.

I'm just tired of seeing one person commuting to his office job in a Dualie 4x4 King Ranch Crew Cab.

[Fosters]

Yeah, but they don't need a 6,000 lb truck when a Minivan gets the job done in a better and more efficient manner.
It's just that SUVs became the 'new station wagon' 15 years ago.

I'm just tired of seeing one person commuting to his office job in a Dualie 4x4 King Ranch Crew Cab.

How does that affect you? Their money, their choice. I drove an 8 passenger v10 4x4 excursion, often times just me and my dog. If I want to pay for 12mpg, why not?

[prchrman]

If/when all the cars get 60+ MPG, the tax revenues from fuel sales will drop significantly. How will the government deal with that???

Just like a couple of years ago in Charlotte they asked for people to cut back on water usage, people did, and Charlotte promptly raised the price of water per gallon because they had a short fall. So there you go.

[Joe Walsh]

How does that affect you? Their money, their choice. I drove an 8 passenger v10 4x4 excursion, often times just me and my dog. If I want to pay for 12mpg, why not?

I've got to follow those meandering MASSIVE behemoths in stop & go traffic everyday.

Oh....and $4.00 gallon gasoline.

[Fosters]

I've got to follow those meandering MASSIVE behemoths in stop & go traffic everyday.

Oh....and $4.00 gallon gasoline.

Don't like it? You're free to buy a massive behemoth yourself. If you like seeing over and around other people's cars that much, do something about it rather than complain what other people are doing. Believe it or not, there are smaller cars out there than the marauder, and they would likely think the same thing about your car. How about we make all cars no larger than a miata, so that no one can follow a behemoth around in traffic?

$4 gasoline isn't because someone decides to use an F350 for a daily driver. It's because we're not drilling here, so we're at the mercy of the oil markets, the last refinery in the US was built in the 70s, and last but not least, taxes. Your gasoline tax dollars, hitting 60+ cents per gallon in some places go towards NOT maintaining roads, but towards building bicycle pads, light rail systems, tax breaks for hybrids and flex fuel vehicles, and if you live in MN, cleaning the lake water of mercury (which can't be done, but we're taxing for it anyway).

[MrBluGruv]

No offense, but if they choose to drive that 6000lb suv, and pay for the gas themselves, it should be their own damn business. Take issue with texting, distracted, etc, but it's NONE of your business what people drive. I bet you somewhere out there there's a prius driver shaking his head at people driving 4500lb V8 boats... :o

Don't like what they drive, that's fine. But it's their choice, and having that choice matters, even if you don't agree with it.

I think my issue isn't that that large of a vehicle is unnecessary for them, but that through their negligence on the roadway they are making the already inherently risky task of driving (seriously, ANYTHING can happen, and even light cars are deadly weapons when out of control) even worse by driving that much larger, heavier, and more unwieldy vehicle.

It's the same argument as not giving a 16-year-old new driver a 400HP Mustang; inexperienced or intentionally negligent people ought not to have vehicles that serve to increase the potential for danger, even if they can afford it...

[kirk]

How does that affect you? Their money, their choice. I drove an 8 passenger v10 4x4 excursion, often times just me and my dog. If I want to pay for 12mpg, why not?

Increased demand does drive up prices for all. We all like to think "it's just me, so what's the big deal", but multiply that 12 mpg by millions of vehicles and it has a huge impact on demand. That's how it affects ALL of us.

[Fosters]

Increased demand does drive up prices for all. We all like to think "it's just me, so what's the big deal", but multiply that 12 mpg by millions of vehicles and it has a huge impact on demand. That's how it affects ALL of us.

So the solution is to take away freedom of choice instead of increasing supply? :shake:

[Loco1234]

The only way they can do that is if they install a GPS on your car... next up, automatically issued speeding tickets... :o

Although, I think the prius crowd will not appreciate paying the same taxes as the hummer crowd... if so, I am getting an H1 :D


My H1 will in soon... It's currently at rubber duck getting a few mods done to it... Including a H2O to hydrogen injection system... It should increase the fuel mileage of a diesel motor...

[kirk]

So the solution is to take away freedom of choice instead of increasing supply? :shake:

I did not indicate whether or not I was in favor of the new standards, only that the problem is much bigger than any one of us, and that what we do as individuals does affect others.

I do believe that increasing supply is not nearly as easy as you seem to think. That's not to say it's impossible to do, but it will be costly (to somebody).

[Fosters]

I did not indicate whether or not I was in favor of the new standards, only that the problem is much bigger than any one of us, and that what we do as individuals does affect others.

I do believe that increasing supply is not nearly as easy as you seem to think. That's not to say it's impossible to do, but it will be costly (to somebody).

Sure, it'll cost oil companies to start drilling in new places and build new refineries, but that's the cost of doing business. I'm fairly certain they'd rather produce more rather than pay outside companies for already refined gasoline to meet demand... All the government has to do is get out of the way and allow it. That doesn't cost much (probably a few million in lear jet meetings)

Notice how prices dropped in 08 when GW threatened to overturn the Clinton ban on drilling? If only they'd have gone ahead with it while the heat was hot...

[Joe Walsh]

Don't like it? You're free to buy a massive behemoth yourself. If you like seeing over and around other people's cars that much, do something about it rather than complain what other people are doing. Believe it or not, there are smaller cars out there than the marauder, and they would likely think the same thing about your car. How about we make all cars no larger than a miata, so that no one can follow a behemoth around in traffic?

$4 gasoline isn't because someone decides to use an F350 for a daily driver. It's because we're not drilling here, so we're at the mercy of the oil markets, the last refinery in the US was built in the 70s, and last but not least, taxes. Your gasoline tax dollars, hitting 60+ cents per gallon in some places go towards NOT maintaining roads, but towards building bicycle pads, light rail systems, tax breaks for hybrids and flex fuel vehicles, and if you live in MN, cleaning the lake water of mercury (which can't be done, but we're taxing for it anyway).

You are arguing about choice....I'm stating that many people make poor/irrational choices. (Heck, look who we elect to Congress!)
I'm not advocating that everyone be forced to drive a Smart Car or a Prius, just wishing their were less "boneheads in behemoths" clogging the roadways.
And when gas hits $5.00+/gal those monster SUVs will be filling the Carmax lots...again.

[Fosters]

You are arguing about choice....I'm stating that many people make poor/irrational choices. (Heck, look who we elect to Congress!)
I'm not advocating that everyone be forced to drive a Smart Car or a Prius, just wishing their were less "boneheads in behemoths" clogging the roadways.
And when gas hits $5.00+/gal those monster SUVs will be filling the Carmax lots...again.

CAFE standards that will price trucks out of the market will do just that...

It's not against the law to make stupid choices, and I don't need government to protect me from myself and tell me what's better for me.