Not so poor pt 2

[DEFYANT]

If you're poor enough in Baltimore, you can get a free cell phone w/ free minutes and data:


http://baltimore.thebeehive.org/special-features/free-cell-phone-program

[DEFYANT]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/thumbs/224485_252297474789878_1000002 88826150_980212_4918646_n.jpg (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/20046)

This picture was taken of the line for the free phone in Baltimore. :mad:

[TooManyFords]

Look at all the > $100 tennis shoes in that picture!

[MrBluGruv]

lmfao, seriously how ridiculous can this thing get?

"The Federal Government realizes that one of the keys to safety is communication and your cell phone could be the difference between life and death.... so you get texting and international calling free!"

I don't even think I have some of those features listed....

[sailsmen]

You obviously don't understand the problem. The Problem is the Gov't is not redistributing wealth fast enough to make the poor wealthy.
If only those obstructionist would allow the Gov't to give everyone $1 Trillion all would be wealthy and we would be HAPPY! Who would possibly oppose this?

[SpartaPerformance]

Government.... or more truthfully said hard working taxpayers like myself pay for free cell phones and data minutes for "poor" people here in NY too. Want to know a scary statistic, in the late 60's when president Johnson began his war on poverty and started welfare and government subsidies the poverty level of this country was 14% and now 50 years later and trillions in welfare checks, food stamps, free cell phones the poverty is still 14%

[DEFYANT]

Government.... or more truthfully said hard working taxpayers like myself pay for free cell phones and data minutes for "poor" people here in NY too. Want to know a scary statistic, in the late 60's when president Johnson began his war on poverty and started welfare and government subsidies the poverty level of this country was 14% and now 50 years later and trillions in welfare checks, food stamps, free cell phones the poverty is still 14%

For the record, that is approximately 43.6 million people, +/- :eek:.

[Fosters]

lmfao, seriously how ridiculous can this thing get?

"The Federal Government realizes that one of the keys to safety is communication and your cell phone could be the difference between life and death.... so you get texting and international calling free!"

I don't even think I have some of those features listed....

It gets worse than that:

http://www.ihatethemedia.com/massachusetts-free-cars-for-poor

And here's my favorite one:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92592545


Nunez, 40, has never worked and has no high school degree. She says a car accident 17 years ago left her depressed and disabled, incapable of getting a job. Instead, she and her daughter, Angelica Hernandez, survive on a $637 Social Security check and $102 in food stamps.

I knew I should have quit my job when I banged up the front bumper on my marauder... I was pretty darn depressed about it! I could have stayed at home for the next 17 years! :shake:

[MrBluGruv]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92592545

The number of things within that article that blow my mind are beyond count.

Even at 40, to be out of work for 17 years would put it happening at 23, and even assuming she dropped out her SENIOR year of high school, that meant she did NOTHING for 5 years. I doubt she waited that long to drop out too, if she even made it INTO high school. And damn, how do you grow up in a middle-class house and still not make it to or through public schooling? Unless your middle-class neighborhood has the performance level of, say, one of the worst schools in the nation, or you have some sort of SERIOUS learning disability, it takes a serious will to outright fail public school.

And how, in a household of SIX children, are ALL of them, AND THEIR SPOUSES, on welfare? Counting the mother, that would be a minimum of 9 different people assuming that "spouses" referred to the minimum possible amount to be more than one person, and up to 13 if all of them had spouses. How do you have a cluster of people that close and EVERY SINGLE ONE can't do anything? Not even the "teenage boy" that apparently requires money to go to school?

And I'm sorry, I know it's an ******* thing to say, but assuming you don't have some sort of glandular problem, you don't get as large as they are by eating light and missing meals....

The only saving grace of what I read in there is they actually reject the idea of having a child to garner more money from society. Probably the first time I've read someone's story where that is what they felt.


I can't even fully wrap my head around that fail of that story...

[dohc324ci]

Sweet lets reward this behavior? Makes sense to me? We all need to be equal:)

[MMarauder03]

Well, I'm going to put the NPR article the way I see it. I would never hire a woman that has absolutely no education, no work experience, and no drive or desire to do just about anything either... no wonder she can't find a job.
Complaining that her free money isn't enough to survive off of is a slap to me as a tax-payer. I wish that you could only receive welfare if you've paid into the system before. I think that would make more sense, thoughts?

And they don't look like they're going hungry anytime soon...

[Chayton]

lmfao, seriously how ridiculous can this thing get?

"The Federal Government realizes that one of the keys to safety is communication and your cell phone could be the difference between life and death.... so you get texting and international calling free!"

I don't even think I have some of those features listed....

with virgin mobile I get unlimited texting, internet, and 300 minutes a month for $25 bucks :banana2:

[mrjones]

I can't believe there's a very heartwarming part of the story that wasn't even mentioned:

At least Nunez was able to overcome her depression just long enough to get laid and have a baby!

[Fosters]

Well, I'm going to put the NPR article the way I see it. I would never hire a woman that has absolutely no education, no work experience, and no drive or desire to do just about anything either...
Hold on, let me put on my liberal goggles:

Typical example of "THE MAN" trying to hold down the poor! I don't know how you can live with yourself knowing there are people like that, who are obviously STARVING! The rich are getting richer and the poor poorer because of people like you! The income gap between people like you and the poor is huge! :mad2:


:D

It's crazy, isn't it?

[dohc324ci]

The number of things within that article that blow my mind are beyond count.

Even at 40, to be out of work for 17 years would put it happening at 23, and even assuming she dropped out her SENIOR year of high school, that meant she did NOTHING for 5 years. I doubt she waited that long to drop out too, if she even made it INTO high school. And damn, how do you grow up in a middle-class house and still not make it to or through public schooling? Unless your middle-class neighborhood has the performance level of, say, one of the worst schools in the nation, or you have some sort of SERIOUS learning disability, it takes a serious will to outright fail public school.

And how, in a household of SIX children, are ALL of them, AND THEIR SPOUSES, on welfare? Counting the mother, that would be a minimum of 9 different people assuming that "spouses" referred to the minimum possible amount to be more than one person, and up to 13 if all of them had spouses. How do you have a cluster of people that close and EVERY SINGLE ONE can't do anything? Not even the "teenage boy" that apparently requires money to go to school?

And I'm sorry, I know it's an ******* thing to say, but assuming you don't have some sort of glandular problem, you don't get as large as they are by eating light and missing meals....

The only saving grace of what I read in there is they actually reject the idea of having a child to garner more money from society. Probably the first time I've read someone's story where that is what they felt.


I can't even fully wrap my head around that fail of that story...

C'mon where's your compassion for these folks referenced in the story?

http://media.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2008/july/ohio/nunez540.jpg?t=1248630686

[MrBluGruv]

Ever heard of a soft-off?

[rayjay]

No different in upstate NY. My mutt neighbors that we all pay for can not work because they have children... I have the same number of children and still managed to work, even got two of mine educated, they each have two college degrees. My third is still in HS. Guess I just have too much respect for myself to be a leach.

[Shaijack]

I refuse to give up my free phone!!!!

[prchrman]

Interesting quote by TJ, never seen it before today.

I think our governments will remain virtuous for many centuries; as long as they are chiefly agricultural; and this will be as long as there shall be vacant lands in any part of America. When they get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, they will become corrupt as in Europe.
Jefferson, Thomas

[Ozark Marauder]

102.00 in food stamps? Must be buying in bulk..........

[bugsyc]

that mother and daughter pair certainly look like they are starving :eek:

[Cheeseheadbob]

I am in no way condoning the permanent welfare state and all of the nonsense it entails, but the truth of the matter is, that unhealthy, high sugar/high carb foods are significantly less expensive than high protein foods and vegetables, thus the preponderance of overweight people among the poor. The $102.00 can buy a whole lot of pasta, but not a lot of pork chops, chicken, pot roast and milk. It is not an issue of gluttony on the public's dime, it is a matter of diet. Most who know me, know that I am pretty conservative on most issues, but one of my pet peeves is the public's perception that a poor, very overweight person has their head buried in a plate of food all day. I have worked with the poor and homeless, as a volunteer, for many years, and I do have quite a bit of first hand knowledge regarding this subject.

Just like anything, there are three sides to every story, and I am sure there are some poor folks who do eat all day, but I just wanted to give this my perspective. -Bob


that mother and daughter pair certainly look like they are starving :eek:

[TooManyFords]

Hey bob, pass me the Cheetos will ya?

[duhtroll]

I don't see data listed.

"Absolutely no cost, requires no contracts or credit checks and offers modern day calling features such as voicemail, call waiting, text messaging, carry-over minutes, free 411, and international calling to 60 countries at no additional cost."

TMF - you must be seeing a much larger, clearer picture than I am to notice the shoes. Is there a "free shoe program?" I want in on that one.


If you're poor enough in Baltimore, you can get a free cell phone w/ free minutes and data:


http://baltimore.thebeehive.org/special-features/free-cell-phone-program

[DEFYANT]

I don't see data listed.

"Absolutely no cost, requires no contracts or credit checks and offers modern day calling features such as voicemail, call waiting, text messaging, carry-over minutes, free 411, and international calling to 60 countries at no additional cost."

TMF - you must be seeing a much larger, clearer picture than I am to notice the shoes. Is there a "free shoe program?" I want in on that one.

Sorry, thought text messages, along with everything else they get for free here was "data". My bad. :rolleyes:

[Bigdogjim]

TMF - you must be seeing a much larger, clearer picture than I am to notice the shoes. Is there a "free shoe program?" I want in on that one.

I am in the free shoe program:) One pair a year:)

[rayjay]

Bread Winner....


I was speaking to an emergency room physician this morning. He told me that a woman in her 20s came to the ER with her 8th pregnancy. She stated, "my momma told me that I am the breadwinner for the family."


He asked her to explain. She said that she can make babies and babies get money for the family. It goes like this: The grandma calls the Department of Child and Family Services and states that the unemployed daughter is not capable of caring for these children. DCFS agrees and states that the child or children will need to go to foster care.



The grandma then volunteers to be the foster parent, and thus receives a check for $1500 per child per month in Illinois ..


Total yearly income:


$144,000 tax-free, not to mention free healthcare (Medicaid) plus a monthly card entitling her to free groceries, etc, and a voucher for 250 free cell phone minutes per month. This does not even include WIC and other welfare programs..Indeed, grandma was correct in that her fertile daughter is the "breadwinner" for the family.

This is how the ruling class spends our tax dollars.



Sebastian J. Ciancio, M.D. Urologist, Danville Polyclinic, LTD


Is this a GREAT COUNTRY or what...


Don't forget to pay your taxes!!!


There are a lot of Breadwinners depending on you & me



From an email I received this morning.... very sad if true.

[Vortex]

Bread Winner....





I was speaking to an emergency room physician this morning. He told me that a woman in her 20s came to the ER with her 8thpregnancy. She stated, "my momma told me that I am the breadwinner for the family."




He asked her to explain. She said that she can make babies and babies get money for the family. It goes like this: The grandma calls the Department of Child and Family Services and states that the unemployed daughter is not capable of caring for these children. DCFS agrees and states that the child or children will need to go to foster care.





The grandma then volunteers to be the foster parent, and thus receives a check for $1500 per child per month in Illinois ..




Total yearly income:




$144,000 tax-free,not to mention free healthcare (Medicaid) plus a monthly card entitling her to free groceries, etc, and a voucher for 250 free cell phone minutes per month. This does not even include WIC and other welfare programs..Indeed, grandma was correct in that her fertile daughter is the "breadwinner" for the family.


This is how the ruling class spends our tax dollars.






Sebastian J. Ciancio, M.D. Urologist, Danville Polyclinic, LTD




Is this a GREAT COUNTRY or what...




Don't forget to pay your taxes!!!




There are a lot of Breadwinners depending on you & me





From an email I received this morning.... very sad if true.




This seems to me to be actually more of an example of a district attorney's office too lazy to prosecute welfare fraud cases (probably because they have set some sort of "prosecutorial guidelines" malarky).

[Bigdogjim]

A few years back NJ Gov. C.Witman try to pass a reform that no more money for "new" babys if your on welfare. Needless to say it was shot down and the the Governor smack by the press.

[Spectragod]

I am in no way condoning the permanent welfare state and all of the nonsense it entails, but the truth of the matter is, that unhealthy, high sugar/high carb foods are significantly less expensive than high protein foods and vegetables, thus the preponderance of overweight people among the poor. The $102.00 can buy a whole lot of pasta, but not a lot of pork chops, chicken, pot roast and milk. It is not an issue of gluttony on the public's dime, it is a matter of diet. Most who know me, know that I am pretty conservative on most issues, but one of my pet peeves is the public's perception that a poor, very overweight person has their head buried in a plate of food all day. I have worked with the poor and homeless, as a volunteer, for many years, and I do have quite a bit of first hand knowledge regarding this subject.

Just like anything, there are three sides to every story, and I am sure there are some poor folks who do eat all day, but I just wanted to give this my perspective. -Bob


This is absolutly correct. But, the 5 lazy fu*ks that live across the street from me:mad2:, Momma about 28, her back is so hurt that she can't work, or take care of the 3 kids she made, her boyfriend, he gets disability to take care of the kids, because she can't. New Escalade sitting in the driveway of their goverment paid for home. The woman that is so hurt, but yet she cuts the grass and hedges(they asked my 67 yo neighbor to do it for them, he refused). Sleep all day, every light on at night, out in the yard till 4-5 am talking on their free cell phones, hangin out with ther "friends". 10 times more trash every week than anyone else in the neighborhood, because "it's all free, if we don"t like it, we throw it out", yep, I feel bad for them.:shake:

[Fosters]

This is absolutly correct. But, the 5 lazy fu*ks that live across the street from me:mad2:, Momma about 28, her back is so hurt that she can't work, or take care of the 3 kids she made, her boyfriend, he gets disability to take care of the kids, because she can't. New Escalade sitting in the driveway of their goverment paid for home. The woman that is so hurt, but yet she cuts the grass and hedges(they asked my 67 yo neighbor to do it for them, he refused). Sleep all day, every light on at night, out in the yard till 4-5 am talking on their free cell phones, hangin out with ther "friends". 10 times more trash every week than anyone else in the neighborhood, because "it's all free, if we don"t like it, we throw it out", yep, I feel bad for them.:shake:

Yup... I have worked with deaf people (data entry operators), blind people (answering 1800 phone lines), and people in wheelchairs (same thing, 1800 hotel reservation phone line). If you want to work, there's work to do. It may not be the pay you'd like, or it may be out of your comfort zone as far as commute or hours, but bottom line is, claiming an accident 17 years ago leaving her disabled (which from the picture and article, doesn't look like she's disabled) and depressed rendering her unable to work is absolute bs.

[rayjay]

Yup... I have worked with deaf people (data entry operators), blind people (answering 1800 phone lines), and people in wheelchairs (same thing, 1800 hotel reservation phone line). If you want to work, there's work to do. It may not be the pay you'd like, or it may be out of your comfort zone as far as commute or hours, but bottom line is, claiming an accident 17 years ago leaving her disabled (which from the picture and article, doesn't look like she's disabled) and depressed rendering her unable to work is absolute bs.

Hmmm, I retired from LE after 34 yrs last August. Right after MV8 I told them I'd come back part time. That quickly turned into almost full time. Then a problem with my back resurfaced. Saw the Doc thinking my sacrum was dislocated again. Wrong, I had worked the past 21 months with a spine broken in two places and didn't know it until it let go. Certainly explained the pain I was in that whole time. Fast forward to now, I'm 7 months out of major surgery with at least another 5 months before I "may" have healed. I can never work in LE again. I do my lawn work and putter around the house with the odd jobs I'm capable of doing. The whole thing is driving me nuts... I want to go back to work doing something, but at this point the longest I can do anything is about 3/4 of an hour. FWIW, that includes sitting.:rolleyes: I hate it.

I must have a branch of Spectragod's neigbors family living next to me. They can't work because they have children... They told that to my 81 year old neighbor, they didn't dare tell me that... :mad2:Not a damn thing wrong with either of em, except being lazy. One of them usually works 2-3 months a year so they can remain eligible to collect as much social services as possible. What a freaking scam. The moron husband usually shows up drunk at where ever his wife is working, creates a scene, and she gets fired. This has happened too many times to be unintentional. He can't take a job because he can't take orders from other people. He is border line certifiable. I continue to hope against hope that he'll wreck his 4 wheeler. 60mph, no helmet, on a gravel road and he has not croaked himself yet. You know we are paying for the gas for that POS to run up and down the roads with no exhaust on it. I won't even go into the three more mutts they spawned to learn the system. Seems if you are enough of a problem, they don't care if you send your kids to school...

[DEFYANT]

FOr good measure, when they get locked up, they are entitled to a public defender. So Mr. and Mrs. tax payer is paying to prosecute and defend the criminal! Great system!

[MrBluGruv]

I am in no way condoning the permanent welfare state and all of the nonsense it entails, but the truth of the matter is, that unhealthy, high sugar/high carb foods are significantly less expensive than high protein foods and vegetables, thus the preponderance of overweight people among the poor. The $102.00 can buy a whole lot of pasta, but not a lot of pork chops, chicken, pot roast and milk. It is not an issue of gluttony on the public's dime, it is a matter of diet. Most who know me, know that I am pretty conservative on most issues, but one of my pet peeves is the public's perception that a poor, very overweight person has their head buried in a plate of food all day. I have worked with the poor and homeless, as a volunteer, for many years, and I do have quite a bit of first hand knowledge regarding this subject.

Just like anything, there are three sides to every story, and I am sure there are some poor folks who do eat all day, but I just wanted to give this my perspective. -Bob

I don't know, it's one thing to be overweight, but it's another thing to be morbidly obese. I eat fast food minimum 3-4 times a week, often more than that, I'm ashamed of it but it's easier to do and I haven't mustered the effort to learn to cook healthy meal choices. All that being said, I'm 6' around 225 and my waist is a size 34. Up until the past few weeks I never had a regular workout routine, and I had pretty much sustained that diet for about 2-3 years. I have a very hard time believing, even if you are eating food that is less-than-preferable for a healthy lifestyle, you could get THAT large without eating a fair bit more than you need every single time you have a meal. It only becomes partly believable if you factor in a lifestyle that the word "sedentary" could only begin to describe...

I just don't fully buy it.

[TooManyFords]

I don't know, it's one thing to be overweight, but it's another thing to be morbidly obese.

Careful there. You should see the T-Shirt order form for a Marauderville event and count the 2X, 3X, 4X and 5X orders http://www.cvmusclecars.com/images/smilies/Smilies0309/lookaround.gif

[Fosters]

I don't know, it's one thing to be overweight, but it's another thing to be morbidly obese. I eat fast food minimum 3-4 times a week, often more than that, I'm ashamed of it but it's easier to do and I haven't mustered the effort to learn to cook healthy meal choices. All that being said, I'm 6' around 225 and my waist is a size 34. Up until the past few weeks I never had a regular workout routine, and I had pretty much sustained that diet for about 2-3 years. I have a very hard time believing, even if you are eating food that is less-than-preferable for a healthy lifestyle, you could get THAT large without eating a fair bit more than you need every single time you have a meal. It only becomes partly believable if you factor in a lifestyle that the word "sedentary" could only begin to describe...

I just don't fully buy it.

Not to mention, if you and I didn't have a car, walking everywhere would easily keep us even more in shape... :o:D

[duhtroll]

Try that at age 35 and let us know how that goes. :)


I don't know, it's one thing to be overweight, but it's another thing to be morbidly obese. I eat fast food minimum 3-4 times a week, often more than that, I'm ashamed of it but it's easier to do and I haven't mustered the effort to learn to cook healthy meal choices. All that being said, I'm 6' around 225 and my waist is a size 34. Up until the past few weeks I never had a regular workout routine, and I had pretty much sustained that diet for about 2-3 years. I have a very hard time believing, even if you are eating food that is less-than-preferable for a healthy lifestyle, you could get THAT large without eating a fair bit more than you need every single time you have a meal. It only becomes partly believable if you factor in a lifestyle that the word "sedentary" could only begin to describe...

I just don't fully buy it.

[Vortex]

I don't know, it's one thing to be overweight, but it's another thing to be morbidly obese. I eat fast food minimum 3-4 times a week, often more than that, I'm ashamed of it but it's easier to do and I haven't mustered the effort to learn to cook healthy meal choices. All that being said, I'm 6' around 225 and my waist is a size 34. Up until the past few weeks I never had a regular workout routine, and I had pretty much sustained that diet for about 2-3 years. I have a very hard time believing, even if you are eating food that is less-than-preferable for a healthy lifestyle, you could get THAT large without eating a fair bit more than you need every single time you have a meal. It only becomes partly believable if you factor in a lifestyle that the word "sedentary" could only begin to describe...

I just don't fully buy it.

You don't buy it because you are 22 years old. Wait a couple of decades.

To the general point of obesity/laziness/welfare, I think it's a combination of these things. I'm old enough to remember when you had to go the Mexico to get a divorce, getting pregnant out of marriage was damn near a crime and a working Mom was pretty damn unusual. The clock will not go backwards but we can do a better job of bringing kids into the world thats for sure. I agree the welfare state is a mess and needs fixing. I also think the very rich are not paying their fair share in taxes and havent been in the past 20 years or so. We should bring back the tax rates of 1975. I think one of the biggest problems we have is an uncontrolled border flooding the country with illegal workers who will not complain about minimal wages. We need something that ties public support to a work requirement. If the excuse is "kids" then we should fund preschool/daycare things (with buses) so there are no excuses why one cannot go to work. While we're at it we need to "declare victory" in Iraq and Afganistan and get the hell out of there. We dont need a giant US embassy and 5 consulates in Iraq. We should tell Japan and Germany we are gone, no more US bases. We should close US embassies in dinky countries and combine them into regional embassies. We should institute a two (2) year National Service requirement for all Americans between the ages of 18-20 (not only the military but social service because some folks arent cut out for the military). We should end any future manned space program(s). We should combine the Coast Guard with the US Navy. We should legalize marijuana. We should bring back hanging as the only approved method of the death penalty. We should support union labor rights. Hey, my coffee was good this am! :)

[kernie]

You don't buy it because you are 22 years old. Wait a couple of decades.

To the general point of obesity/laziness/welfare, I think it's a combination of these things. I'm old enough to remember when you had to go the Mexico to get a divorce, getting pregnant out of marriage was damn near a crime and a working Mom was pretty damn unusual. The clock will not go backwards but we can do a better job of bringing kids into the world thats for sure. I agree the welfare state is a mess and needs fixing. I also think the very rich are not paying their fair share in taxes and havent been in the past 20 years or so. We should bring back the tax rates of 1975. I think one of the biggest problems we have is an uncontrolled border flooding the country with illegal workers who will not complain about minimal wages. We need something that ties public support to a work requirement. If the excuse is "kids" then we should fund preschool/daycare things (with buses) so there are no excuses why one cannot go to work. While we're at it we need to "declare victory" in Iraq and Afganistan and get the hell out of there. We dont need a giant US embassy and 5 consulates in Iraq. We should tell Japan and Germany we are gone, no more US bases. We should close US embassies in dinky countries and combine them into regional embassies. We should institute a two (2) year National Service requirement for all Americans between the ages of 18-20 (not only the military but social service because some folks arent cut out for the military). We should end any future manned space program(s). We should combine the Coast Guard with the US Navy. We should legalize marijuana. We should bring back hanging as the only approved method of the death penalty. We should support union labor rights. Hey, my coffee was good this am! :)

Best political post iv'e seen in a long time!

:beer:

[rayjay]

We should bring back capital punishment in NYS period. Public hangings make a great deterrent for those who do not understand conseqeunces for their actions.

[Fosters]

You don't buy it because you are 22 years old. Wait a couple of decades.

To the general point of obesity/laziness/welfare, I think it's a combination of these things. I'm old enough to remember when you had to go the Mexico to get a divorce, getting pregnant out of marriage was damn near a crime and a working Mom was pretty damn unusual. The clock will not go backwards but we can do a better job of bringing kids into the world thats for sure. I agree the welfare state is a mess and needs fixing. I also think the very rich are not paying their fair share in taxes and havent been in the past 20 years or so. We should bring back the tax rates of 1975. I think one of the biggest problems we have is an uncontrolled border flooding the country with illegal workers who will not complain about minimal wages. We need something that ties public support to a work requirement. If the excuse is "kids" then we should fund preschool/daycare things (with buses) so there are no excuses why one cannot go to work. While we're at it we need to "declare victory" in Iraq and Afganistan and get the hell out of there. We dont need a giant US embassy and 5 consulates in Iraq. We should tell Japan and Germany we are gone, no more US bases. We should close US embassies in dinky countries and combine them into regional embassies. We should institute a two (2) year National Service requirement for all Americans between the ages of 18-20 (not only the military but social service because some folks arent cut out for the military). We should end any future manned space program(s). We should combine the Coast Guard with the US Navy. We should legalize marijuana. We should bring back hanging as the only approved method of the death penalty. We should support union labor rights. Hey, my coffee was good this am! :)

The rich don't pay their fair share? What do you consider "fair" then?

Do you consider it fair that 50% of the population has NO federal income tax liability?

[Vortex]

Your second point first; I usually don't cut and paste articles but I can't put it any better than this:

"Today, TPC released a new study (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/1001547-Why-No-Income-Tax.pdf) that examines why these people end up paying no federal income tax.
The number one reason should come as no surprise. It’s because they have low incomes. As my colleague Bob Williams notes (http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2011/07/27/why-do-people-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2/):
A couple with two children earning less than $26,400 will pay no federal income tax this year because their $11,600 standard deduction and four exemptions of $3,700 each reduce their taxable income to zero. The basic structure of the income tax simply exempts subsistence levels of income from tax.
Low incomes (or, if you prefer, the standard deduction and personal exemptions) account for fully half of the people who pay no federal income tax.
The second reason is that for many senior citizens, Social Security (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Social+Security) benefits are exempt from federal income taxes. That accounts for about 22% of the people who pay no federal income tax.
The third reason is that America (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/United+States) uses the tax code to provide benefits to low-income families, particularly those with children. Taken together, the earned income tax credit, the child credit, and the childcare credit account for about 15% of the people who pay no federal income tax.
Taken together, those three factors — incomes that fall below the standard deduction and personal exemptions; the exemption for most Social Security benefits; and tax benefits aimed at low-income families and children — account for almost 90% of the Americans who pay no federal income tax."

The problem is we need to do a better job getting people out of poverty and making them viable taxpayers. We need to solve the problems of funding incentives for fatherless families and end the glorified "baby-momma" phenomena. I fault equally the guy that walks away from the responsibility and the woman that lets herself get pregnant in the first place. Work is a great way to do this, which is why I said we need solutions to women sitting at home watching tv with multiple fatherless children collecting welfare checks. If we could stop illegal immigrastion there would be more jobs available for these people. I'll add I am still a supporter of the the old "brasero" program that allowed migrant farm workers from Mexico to work in the US on a temporary basis (that requires strict enforcement to ensure no stayovers).

A few of other things, we need to end the baloney of anchor babies, if a child is born in the US to an illegal alien mother the child should remain a citizen of the mother's country of origin. Also we should make a law that says that any citizen that votes for any politician who signs a pledge promising to vote for any cause needs to lose their right to vote for a period of 5 years. If you are dumb enough to vote for a person who has abrogated their ability to make a decision based on everchanging circumstances you do not deserve the right to vote. While Im at it, I would like to ammend the Constitution so that only honorable discharged veterans of the military are allowed to be President and/or Vice President. :)

Regarding "fair share", I already said I would like to see our income tax rates back to the 1975 levels for upper income taxpayers.

[Fosters]

Your second point first; I usually don't cut and paste articles but I can't put it any better than this:

Today, TPC released a new study (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/1001547-Why-No-Income-Tax.pdf) that examines why these people end up paying no federal income tax.
The number one reason should come as no surprise. It’s because they have low incomes. As my colleague Bob Williams notes (http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2011/07/27/why-do-people-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2/):
A couple with two children earning less than $26,400 will pay no federal income tax this year because their $11,600 standard deduction and four exemptions of $3,700 each reduce their taxable income to zero. The basic structure of the income tax simply exempts subsistence levels of income from tax.
Low incomes (or, if you prefer, the standard deduction and personal exemptions) account for fully half of the people who pay no federal income tax.
The second reason is that for many senior citizens, Social Security (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Social+Security) benefits are exempt from federal income taxes. That accounts for about 22% of the people who pay no federal income tax.
The third reason is that America (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/United+States) uses the tax code to provide benefits to low-income families, particularly those with children. Taken together, the earned income tax credit, the child credit, and the childcare credit account for about 15% of the people who pay no federal income tax.
Taken together, those three factors — incomes that fall below the standard deduction and personal exemptions; the exemption for most Social Security benefits; and tax benefits aimed at low-income families and children — account for almost 90% of the Americans who pay no federal income tax.

The problem is we need to do a better job getting people out of poverty and making them viable taxpayers. We need to solve the problems of funding incentives for fatherless families and end the glorified "baby-momma" phenomena. I fault equally the guy that walks away from the responsibility and the woman that lets herself get pregnant in the fisrt place. Work is a great way to do this, which is why I said we need solutions to women sitting at home watching tv with multiple fatherless children collecting welfare checks.

Regarding "fair share", I already said I would like to see our income tax rates back to the 1975 levels for upper income taxpayers.

You have not answered the last question; you instead explained what the 50% not paying income taxes do to get around the taxes.

Is it fair for 50% of the people to not pay ANY income taxes? Yes, or no. I don't care for why.

We will discuss tax rates after that.

[Vortex]

You have not answered the last question; you instead explained what the 50% not paying income taxes do to get around the taxes.

Is it fair for 50% of the people to not pay ANY income taxes? Yes, or no. I don't care for why.

We will discuss tax rates after that.

If you are poor, you are poor. Fair doesnt apply when you are poor. If you were hungry would you steal a loaf of bread to feed your family? Lets worry about the big picture, we need to reduce the number of poor people by getting them out of poverty and we need to ensure those who have the high priced tax attorneys are contributing their required share. Ok, Ive got tired-head now, I quit.

[Fosters]

If you are poor, you are poor. Fair doesnt apply when you are poor. If you were hungry would you steal a loaf of bread to feed your family? Lets worry about the big picture, we need to reduce the number of poor people by getting them out of poverty and we need to ensure those who have the high priced tax attorneys are contributing their required share. Ok, Ive got tired-head now, I quit.

It's nice to know that you think it's fair that 50% don't pay any taxes. I thought Obama said everyone has to have some skin in the game? I guess that means everyone but half.

No, I would not steal. I would work for it. Unless you gave it to me for free, then I wouldn't have to work for it. Which one of those two scenarios would create more wealth and get me out of poverty?

Are you saying if you're poor, that's an excuse to steal?

[Blackened300a]

Careful there. You should see the T-Shirt order form for a Marauderville event and count the 2X, 3X, 4X and 5X orders http://www.cvmusclecars.com/images/smilies/Smilies0309/lookaround.gif
Agreed, The Carlisle and Mechanic shirts were most popular in 2XL. The smaller sizes I have the most left over of and the large sizes I never have enough of.


We should bring back capital punishment in NYS period. Public hangings make a great deterrent for those who do not understand conseqeunces for their actions.

Don't you know thats cruel and inhumaine?? Someone who kills their entire family should be allowed to live the rest of their lives on the public till in one of our fine prison systems because two wrongs don't make a right sir. :rolleyes::mad2:
Thats the liberal way of thinking and more reason why I want out of this state. :shake:

[jerrym3]

You have not answered the last question; you instead explained what the 50% not paying income taxes do to get around the taxes.

Is it fair for 50% of the people to not pay ANY income taxes? Yes, or no. I don't care for why.

We will discuss tax rates after that.


What they (the poor) do to get around paying taxes?

They follow the tax guidelines, as do the super rich.

The "why" doesn't matter?

That's just downright cruelty. Of course it does.

Having money for food, rent, heat/electricity vs paying fair share of taxes.

Great choice. Glad we don't have to make it.

[Papillon]

Thats the liberal way of thinking and more reason why I want out of this state. :shake:

:awe: Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? !?!!!! :eek:

[HammerDown]

Best political post iv'e seen in a long time!

:beer:

Yes!!!!:agree:

[MrBluGruv]

Try that at age 35 and let us know how that goes. :)


You don't buy it because you are 22 years old. Wait a couple of decades.


Still not seeing it. I haven't seen a threshold age where everyone suddenly becomes morbidly obese. Yes, it gets harder to stay in ideal shape, metabolism slows down, etc. But I've also seen my father, aged 59, pretty much fight back diabetes and lose a fair bit of weight in the process. This is without an exercise routine also, and I'm working on getting him into that as well.

It is what it is, but don't lie to yourself about it. Also, as I said, there's a BIG difference between overweight and seriously obese....

[Fosters]

Still not seeing it. I haven't seen a threshold age where everyone suddenly becomes morbidly obese. Yes, it gets harder to stay in ideal shape, metabolism slows down, etc. But I've also seen my father, aged 59, pretty much fight back diabetes and lose a fair bit of weight in the process. This is without an exercise routine also, and I'm working on getting him into that as well.

It is what it is, but don't lie to yourself about it. Also, as I said, there's a BIG difference between overweight and seriously obese....

Amen, I'm on the same diet, and I've been told that same exact line - wait till you're x years old! - and I'm 30 now and still hover around 220lbs.

Went into college 6'1", 130lbs, came out 6'1" 235lbs. slowly dropped to around 220 since and been keeping it around 220-230 depending on how much soda I drink and how much snow I shovel in the winter :o

[jerrym3]

Genetics, as well as diet, can play a role.

How often do you see overweight Asians?

True, Asians most likely have a healthier diet, but still, overweight Asians are very rare.

Don't mean to get racist here; just an observance.

[duhtroll]

I think if you search a bit you'll find that is a stereotype and not really true.

Sure, they might be less obese than we are, but "very rare" is prolly exaggerated a bit.


Genetics, as well as diet, can play a role.

How often do you see overweight Asians?

True, Asians most likely have a healthier diet, but still, overweight Asians are very rare.

Don't mean to get racist here; just an observance.

[PonyUP]

Still not seeing it. I haven't seen a threshold age where everyone suddenly becomes morbidly obese. Yes, it gets harder to stay in ideal shape, metabolism slows down, etc. But I've also seen my father, aged 59, pretty much fight back diabetes and lose a fair bit of weight in the process. This is without an exercise routine also, and I'm working on getting him into that as well.

It is what it is, but don't lie to yourself about it. Also, as I said, there's a BIG difference between overweight and seriously obese....


It's very easy to say that someone becomes overweight because they eat poorly, eat too much, or are couch potato's, and that does happen.

But people become overweight for a variety of reasons, and people that become morbidly obese, do not do so of their own free will. No one wants to be 4 or 500lbs. Food can be addictive, and it also is often times a product of depression. Then you become depressed because of the food and weight, and it becomes an endless vicious circle. How do I know? I used to be 430lbs, and believe me it did not happen overnight and was not a product of not being active. It started with a herniated disc in my back that was misdiagnosed, and for a year I could hardly walk. There wasn't one second of anyday that I was not in excruciating pain. So I gained about 40lbs there, then became depressed about the food and my back to the point of being near suicide because the pain was too much.

Finally I had surgery and the back was fixed, but the damage was done. And it stayed that way for another 11 years gradually growing bit by bit each year. It wasn't until I hit Rock bottom that I made a change. Doctors told me I ahd to lose weight, so did family and friends, but it didn't happen until I got there.

Once there I changed everything and have dropped over 160lbs, and it does get much harder the older you get.

Now that having been said, Fast Food, junk food, and quick food all add to the obesity problem and many health problems, and it is not a way to live. Whether you gain weight or not, the cholesterol is going to go through the roof eventually, the sodium is incredibly high, and there is very little nutritional value. Many places have included healthy options now, which helps. I think the choice to have these garbage foods (And I still do on rare occassion if you saw pics from my Chicago trip) is a personal one, and I submit perhaps a junk food tax may help curb it, but that is not exactly fair to the people that do control their portions and occassionally want a Big Mac.

What I'm saying is, there is a whole lot more that goes into being overweight than lack of impulse control. Smokers and Overweight people are the only acceptable form of discrimination in todays world, and for the overweight, that type of ridicule and singling out only adds to their challenges. For while there are many people that get that way through what you describe, there are also many that struggle with it incredibly on an hourly basis. Just my two cents as a former extreme fatty and now a pleasantly plump fatty :beer:

[MrBluGruv]

It's very easy to say that someone becomes overweight because they eat poorly, eat too much, or are couch potato's, and that does happen.

But people become overweight for a variety of reasons, and people that become morbidly obese, do not do so of their own free will. No one wants to be 4 or 500lbs. Food can be addictive, and it also is often times a product of depression. Then you become depressed because of the food and weight, and it becomes an endless vicious circle. How do I know? I used to be 430lbs, and believe me it did not happen overnight and was not a product of not being active. It started with a herniated disc in my back that was misdiagnosed, and for a year I could hardly walk. There wasn't one second of anyday that I was not in excruciating pain. So I gained about 40lbs there, then became depressed about the food and my back to the point of being near suicide because the pain was too much.

Finally I had surgery and the back was fixed, but the damage was done. And it stayed that way for another 11 years gradually growing bit by bit each year. It wasn't until I hit Rock bottom that I made a change. Doctors told me I ahd to lose weight, so did family and friends, but it didn't happen until I got there.

Once there I changed everything and have dropped over 160lbs, and it does get much harder the older you get.

Now that having been said, Fast Food, junk food, and quick food all add to the obesity problem and many health problems, and it is not a way to live. Whether you gain weight or not, the cholesterol is going to go through the roof eventually, the sodium is incredibly high, and there is very little nutritional value. Many places have included healthy options now, which helps. I think the choice to have these garbage foods (And I still do on rare occassion if you saw pics from my Chicago trip) is a personal one, and I submit perhaps a junk food tax may help curb it, but that is not exactly fair to the people that do control their portions and occassionally want a Big Mac.

What I'm saying is, there is a whole lot more that goes into being overweight than lack of impulse control. Smokers and Overweight people are the only acceptable form of discrimination in todays world, and for the overweight, that type of ridicule and singling out only adds to their challenges. For while there are many people that get that way through what you describe, there are also many that struggle with it incredibly on an hourly basis. Just my two cents as a former extreme fatty and now a pleasantly plump fatty :beer:

I agree and disagree with a lot of this.

I find it hard to put it eloquently; yes, it can be easy to fall into that, and yes it isn't really easy to just get rid of it once it's there, but that's kind of the point: if it were SUPER easy everyone would have the physique of the ideal body. I've hit my own rock-bottom before, and that's a big part of why I'm nearly 230 now instead of the leaner 180 I used to be. I just hope that I don't take a trip back down there again, but it was ME that got me out of that spot as well, no one did it for me. I know it's also not always easy to just pull yourself back up, but you have to, that's just the way life is. While the increase in weight may not be the desired end result, it is most definitely their free will if they choose to eat as a comfort; the food doesn't enter their body by accident. Unless you are talking about a substance that creates a physical addiction over time, this will always be true.

Now too I think I said this before, but medical reasons like glandular issues and such, I don't hold to the same standard. That's not just unfair to those that suffer from it, but it's in extreme poor taste as well.

Even all those things aside, you are in essence proving my point: you had eaten more than you needed to (for your own reasons), and at least for a time you lead a sedentary lifestyle (out of necessity of course, given your condition).

The bottom line is I'm not trying to levy some kind of judgement as for HOW it happens, I just don't like the reasons why it happens to get out of sight, because ignoring those reasons can lead to enabling that problem further; and because of all that I just didn't really buy those two women's particular situation of frequently not eating given the size they were.

I'm not there though, so at the end of the day what more can I argue anyway right? I think we're reaching (if we haven't passed it already) a point of frivolity...

[Fosters]

Before this delves into a body fat index argument, let's go back to the basics a bit. The thread was about the poor, and those two jabba-the-hut life size figurines. I'm sorry, but not having a car should be like the ultimate workout... But instead, they complained that they have to pay people for a ride to take them grocery shopping. Sorry, since you're sitting at home all day long, you can take a mile walk to the nearest grocery store 7 times per week, rather than do it once per week like the average working people.

I know back in eastern europe, walking darn near everywhere, you rarely saw anyone looking THAT bad; heck, you rarely ever saw people as big as me. Yes, there are medical problems that get people tho those higher weight ranges, but those are few and far between.

[PonyUP]

I agree and disagree with a lot of this.

I find it hard to put it eloquently; yes, it can be easy to fall into that, and yes it isn't really easy to just get rid of it once it's there, but that's kind of the point: if it were SUPER easy everyone would have the physique of the ideal body. I've hit my own rock-bottom before, and that's a big part of why I'm nearly 230 now instead of the leaner 180 I used to be. I just hope that I don't take a trip back down there again, but it was ME that got me out of that spot as well, no one did it for me. I know it's also not always easy to just pull yourself back up, but you have to, that's just the way life is. While the increase in weight may not be the desired end result, it is most definitely their free will if they choose to eat as a comfort; the food doesn't enter their body by accident. Unless you are talking about a substance that creates a physical addiction over time, this will always be true.

Now too I think I said this before, but medical reasons like glandular issues and such, I don't hold to the same standard. That's not just unfair to those that suffer from it, but it's in extreme poor taste as well.

Even all those things aside, you are in essence proving my point: you had eaten more than you needed to (for your own reasons), and at least for a time you lead a sedentary lifestyle (out of necessity of course, given your condition).

The bottom line is I'm not trying to levy some kind of judgement as for HOW it happens, I just don't like the reasons why it happens to get out of sight, because ignoring those reasons can lead to enabling that problem further; and because of all that I just didn't really buy those two women's particular situation of frequently not eating given the size they were.

I'm not there though, so at the end of the day what more can I argue anyway right? I think we're reaching (if we haven't passed it already) a point of frivolity...

I concur, regardless of the reasons why, they do have the power to stop and change just like any of us. Admittedly, I didn't watch the original video, I just caught the last couple of pages of the thread, much like smoking, it was a choice to begin that lifestyle, and it's a choice to end it. You have to want to end it though on your own. I can only speak for myself, but I like life much better at 270 instead of 430. Can't wait to see life at an even two bills

[MrBluGruv]

but I like life much better at 270 instead of 430

And kudos to that man, for sure. :beer:

[Joe Walsh]

I can't read about these ridiculous welfare programs and the abuses that go with them.

It just enrages me.....:mad2:......and I'm afraid I'm going to 'pop an embolism' leaving my employed wife to fend for herself without government hand-outs!

I would welcome a nuking of Capitol Hill during a full Senate and House session.
We can rebuild the Mall and the Smithsonian Museums with all of the saved government spending.

[Bigdogjim]

Yep! This thread has run way off topic?

And by the way what's your BMI?

Now if anyone wants to try and look me in eye and tell me "your too fat" well they better be able to outrun me:lol:

[jerrym3]

I think if you search a bit you'll find that is a stereotype and not really true.

Sure, they might be less obese than we are, but "very rare" is prolly exaggerated a bit.

I don't think it's that much of an exaggeration

My town is 22% Asian. Other local North Bergen County, NJ, are way over 22 %.

Of the 5 houses that abut mine, two are Asian, one Indian, and two caucasion. Riding up my block, many other houses are owned by Asians and Indians.

One house next to mine is a rental, and since the owner is Asian, she only rents to Asian families. They frequently have other Asian families over their house for a "kid's playtime".

Never saw one of the mothers overweight.

The Asian father next door must do a lot of business travel, because he's out of town frequently.

To see this very slim Asian mother out there with a shovel this past winter looking at 24-36" of driveway snow was sad, but since I still shovel at 68 years old, I'm sorry to say I couldn't help her.

At our local stores, I haven't taken any scientific poll, but if memory serves me, not many overweight Asians.

[duhtroll]

As long as we are already off topic...

BMI is being misused for telling people who are healthy that they are obese. I am guessing it is one of the reasons diet and drug companies make so much on the fear of being fat these days.

BMI was developed for population studies and not intended for individual diagnosis.

If you are muscular, according to BMI you are overweight or even obese. Thin people who are healthy at their proper weight are told to gain weight for purely aesthetic reasons. Tall people automatically have higher BMI due to how it is calculated.

I informed a "know it all" Indian doctor of this when he told me how overweight I was. (I am 6'3" and 240#) I said "my resting heart rate is 48, my resting BP is 107 over 60, and you just misdiagnosed me as having hepatitis, according to the hematologist at Mayo. Maybe you oughta worry about yourself."

BMI is a scam.


Yep! This thread has run way off topic?

And by the way what's your BMI?

Now if anyone wants to try and look me in eye and tell me "your too fat" well they better be able to outrun me:lol:

[duhtroll]

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jobes/2010/868573/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/sep/06/health.healthandwellbeing

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(06)69703-1/fulltext

Took just a few secs. There's lots more.


I don't think it's that much of an exaggeration

My town is 22% Asian. Other local North Bergen County, NJ, are way over 22 %.

Of the 5 houses that abut mine, two are Asian, one Indian, and two caucasion. Riding up my block, many other houses are owned by Asians and Indians.

One house next to mine is a rental, and since the owner is Asian, she only rents to Asian families. They frequently have other Asian families over their house for a "kid's playtime".

Never saw one of the mothers overweight.

The Asian father next door must do a lot of business travel, because he's out of town frequently.

To see this very slim Asian mother out there with a shovel this past winter looking at 24-36" of driveway snow was sad, but since I still shovel at 68 years old, I'm sorry to say I couldn't help her.

At our local stores, I haven't taken any scientific poll, but if memory serves me, not many overweight Asians.

[jerrym3]

Well, looks like they're following us into "pudgy world".

[Bigdogjim]

As fast food becomes more available to the "Asian" Americans they too shall grow:)

[PonyUP]

And kudos to that man, for sure. :beer:

Thanks Blu, it's still a long road to hoe, but life keepos getting better day after day :beer:

[Spectragod]

Careful there. You should see the T-Shirt order form for a Marauderville event and count the 2X, 3X, 4X and 5X orders http://www.cvmusclecars.com/images/smilies/Smilies0309/lookaround.gif

XXX isn't just a size, it's a lifestyle.......:D

[Bigdogjim]

XXX isn't just a size, it's a lifestyle.......:D

Just so you know I go through 3X guys just to get to the buffet:lol:

:laugh:

[Haggis]

Just so you know I go through 3X guys just to get to the buffet:lol:

:laugh:

Yea, I can use one of your shirts like a tent.

[Marauderman]

First off--WOW! What a heck of a thread--very, very interesting reading! And everyone is pretty much civil and a lot of points of interest being brought out.

Secondly, and I am sorry for being off topic, but oh well, Paul, regarding your comment below--




....... more reason why I want out of this state. :shake:

Well Come on Down!!!--You liked it last fall here--!! We'd love to have ya'll as we say it here!!



:awe: Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? !?!!!! :eek:

...and yes, he did say it!!!! .and you liked it here too if I remember!!!



OK --Back on topic--- Everyone seems to be right on target--carry on!