Strange gas in my MM

[dj_pizm]

I arrived at work and my gas light came on. 8 hours I go to my car to go home and my gas is now on a full tank. First thing I do is call my girlfriend and ask her when did she come get my car but she says she dont know what im talking (why do I believe her because she had surgery on her wrist a week ago and can't drive) and then i'm thinking prank but who would spend $70 on a prank. Another major detail is I work at a police station and park in the garage. I do leave my keys in the car and lock it with manual entry. I told my job and they think it might be a stalker co worker but how they get code. I said maybe the tow service for police cars made a mistake and did it. Everyone is puzzled , what u think????

[CBT]

I thinking locking gas cap. :beer:

[fastblackmerc]

I'm thinking send them my way... just make sure they fill it with hi-test.

[dj_pizm]

I thinking locking gas cap. :beer:

But u have to get inside to press button gor gas door to open

[dj_pizm]

I'm thinking send them my way... just make sure they fill it with hi-test.

Hopefully they did put premium

[CBT]

But u have to get inside to press button gor gas door to open

Oh, my bad, didn't realize you had the fuel door release. That makes your an early '03, right? :beer:

[dj_pizm]

Oh, my bad, didn't realize you had the fuel door release. That makes your an early '03, right? :beer:

Yeah check the sig:lol:

[sailsmen]

Corrosion as a result of Ethanol is probably the culprit.

I have recently rented several cars. I calculate the amount of gas I used to put the guage back to where I rented it. The guage does not move after adding gas.

I now have to add gas and then drive the car around slamming on the breaks, go over and over pass to read properly before returning the car.

Ethanol is a crappy fuel.

[CBT]

Yeah check the sig:lol:
Sometimes I fail :D

[Bigdogjim]

The door on the early '03 can be "poped".... Still lets hope the prankers put hi-test in there or you going to have issues.

You state you park in Police garage, if so don't they have camera's around? I would think the pumps would covered by camer's.

[SID210SA]

Maybe something is wrong with your guage???

[duhtroll]

We've been driving on ethanol fuel for 20+ years and for me almost one million miles driven.

There is nothing wrong with ethanol as a fuel.

:rolleyes:

I have the same problem with rental cars, but that is probably because they fill the tank just enough to show it "looks" full on the gauge but isn't really. Then when you return it, you fill it up, thinking it was full when you got it. In reality you are buying them 3 more gallons you didn't use.

However, it hasn't happened on the 11 or so vehicles I have owned, or any of the other vehicles I have borrowed, driven for work, etc.. So I'd guess it is the rental company abusing the fuel levels and policy.

The last time I rented a car, I made a continuous video of me driving off the rental lot to the gas station down the street. The gauge read full, but I added 3 gallons after about 6 blocks of driving.

Pretty crappy mileage from a Hyundai.

Showed the video to the manager at Enterprise and he just shrugged.

They know exactly what they are doing and you have to pay attention to not give away money.

EDIT: I should add that this is also how I get rid of my old lawn mower and snow blower fuel. Rental fillup!


Corrosion as a result of Ethanol is probably the culprit.

I have recently rented several cars. I calculate the amount of gas I used to put the guage back to where I rented it. The guage does not move after adding gas.

I now have to add gas and then drive the car around slamming on the breaks, go over and over pass to read properly before returning the car.

Ethanol is a crappy fuel.

[sailsmen]

It is rare that I rent a car with the tank full or almost full. How does the rental car company benefit, they are not selling fuel. Are you filling up at the rental car companies gas station? They go by the guage not how much fuel you or they put in the car.

Are you saying they are only putting enough gas for the guage to read full so that when people bring it back empty they fill it all the way getting another 2-3 gallons that they get to charge a higher price for? What is that higher price $1 per gallon? So they make another $3 on the gas but lose it on their labor cost and mileage cost from having their employee drive it to the gas station?

From Wikki - "Ethanol contains soluble and insoluble contaminants.[28] These soluble contaminants, halide ions such as chloride ions, have a large effect on the corrosivity of alcohol fuels. Halide ions increase corrosion in two ways; they chemically attack passivating oxide films on several metals causing pitting corrosion, and they increase the conductivity of the fuel. Increased electrical conductivity promotes electric, galvanic, and ordinary corrosion in the fuel system. Soluble contaminants, such as aluminum hydroxide, itself a product of corrosion by halide ions, clog the fuel system over time.

Ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it will absorb water vapor directly from the atmosphere. Because absorbed water dilutes the fuel value of the ethanol (although, it suppresses engine knock) and may cause phase separation of ethanol-gasoline blends, containers of ethanol fuels must be kept tightly sealed. This high miscibility with water means that ethanol cannot be efficiently shipped through modern pipelines, like liquid hydrocarbons, over long distances.[29] Mechanics also have seen increased cases of damage to small engines, in particular, the carburetor, attributable to the increased water retention by ethanol in fuel.[30]"

Put ethanol fuel in your car and then lay her up for the winter, see what happens.

[RacerX]

But u have to get inside to press button gor gas door to open
No you don't! ;) If you take your key and insert it at an angle towards the cap on the right of the little door, push the tip of the key to the right, it pops right open.

[CBT]

No you don't! ;) If you take your key and insert it at an angle towards the cap on the right of the little door, push the tip of the key to the right, it pops right open.

*note to self - park next to RacerX at Hershey, save on fuel bill. Boom, duh, winning!*

[RacerX]

Muahahahaha!
http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dimage/159329_ts.JPG?cvt=jpeg

[duhtroll]

It is rare that I rent a car with the tank full or almost full. How does the rental car company benefit, they are not selling fuel. Are you filling up at the rental car companies gas station? They go by the guage not how much fuel you or they put in the car.

Are you saying they are only putting enough gas for the guage to read full so that when people bring it back empty they fill it all the way getting another 2-3 gallons that they get to charge a higher price for? What is that higher price $1 per gallon? So they make another $3 on the gas but lose it on their labor cost and mileage cost from having their employee drive it to the gas station?

Nope - they charge something like $9 per gallon with fuel surcharges. Try returning the car with less fuel sometime if you don't believe me - or read the contract. Last one I had IIRC it was a $30 surcharge (plus their cost for gas which was excessive) for not bringing it back with as much as it had in it.

If you fill it up, you give them free gas. If you don't and it is lower than when you left, they get even more.

Now for the "evidence" you posted.


From Wikki - "Ethanol contains soluble and insoluble contaminants.[28] These soluble contaminants, halide ions such as chloride ions, have a large effect on the corrosivity of alcohol fuels. Halide ions increase corrosion in two ways; they chemically attack passivating oxide films on several metals causing pitting corrosion, and they increase the conductivity of the fuel. Increased electrical conductivity promotes electric, galvanic, and ordinary corrosion in the fuel system. Soluble contaminants, such as aluminum hydroxide, itself a product of corrosion by halide ions, clog the fuel system over time.

Ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it will absorb water vapor directly from the atmosphere. Because absorbed water dilutes the fuel value of the ethanol (although, it suppresses engine knock) and may cause phase separation of ethanol-gasoline blends, containers of ethanol fuels must be kept tightly sealed. This high miscibility with water means that ethanol cannot be efficiently shipped through modern pipelines, like liquid hydrocarbons, over long distances.[29] Mechanics also have seen increased cases of damage to small engines, in particular, the carburetor, attributable to the increased water retention by ethanol in fuel.[30]"

In particular, the carburetor, your source says. None of my vehicles have one that I know of.

Smaller engines, it says. Like my lawn mower that has been running exclusively on ethanol since I bought it in 1995, sitting every single winter with the same old gas in it, only to start right up again when I spray some brake cleaner thru the fuel line? Those smaller engines?

Or my snow thrower, which I have owned since 1998 and sits even longer with the same old gas/oil mix until the following winter? Yet it runs like a ***** ape come first snow fall?

Of course... I buy Briggs engines. Maybe the Mistu-sake engines don't fare as well. Dunno.

EDIT: Sorry - had to add that I also spend like $2 for a new spark plug every year. So I guess that is two more minutes of basic maintenance bringing the total to about 10-15 minutes to get each running every year. If I thought about it in advance and put some Sta-Bil in the tanks or ran them dry with some sea-foam after the season, I bet I wouldn't even need to do that much.



Put ethanol fuel in your car and then lay her up for the winter, see what happens.

I do this every winter with my MM and so do many other people. Doesn't seem to be a problem.

[sailsmen]

None of the rental car cos I use charge $9 or any where near that.

"I have the same problem with rental cars, but that is probably because they fill the tank just enough to show it "looks" full on the gauge but isn't really. Then when you return it, you fill it up, thinking it was full when you got it. In reality you are buying them 3 more gallons you didn't use."

All the rental car cos I use base it on the guage reading. They don't "sell" the gas so there is no advantage to them.
If the guage reads full wether there is 9 gallons in the tank or 10 gallons in the tank it does not benefit the rental company unless they are siponing off the 1 gallon of gas and selling it.

You rent the car with the guage on full and drive it around then bring it back with the guage reading full does not benefit the rental co.

Several repair shops I have spoken to have made repairs caused by ethanol.

[duhtroll]

I forget who it was, but someone advocating for E-10 use offered to pay for any repairs that could be proven to have been caused by ethanol use in vehicles. None were able to take them up on the offer.

There was a problem with older cars and ethanol, but using an additive fixed the problem. The same cars were designed to run on leaded fuel, and thus also had performance problems with unleaded fuel, too. Old tech.

Also, I checked. Briggs&Stratton, Honda, Toro, Kohler and Snapper all approve and certify ethanol as safe to use in their small engines. I have read some other smaller engines have had problems, but those were likely during conversion.

It isn't going to be an issue for long as ethanol's days are numbered, anyway.

As for the rental agency -- you don't think they drive the cars for personal use? I had a former student work for one company and he took a rental to and from work every night. That's where the extra gas goes.

And yes, they do siphon tanks to put gas in other rentals that have been brought in near dry. Some bigger rental places even have their own pumps so they make money on sales, too.


None of the rental car cos I use charge $9 or any where near that.

"I have the same problem with rental cars, but that is probably because they fill the tank just enough to show it "looks" full on the gauge but isn't really. Then when you return it, you fill it up, thinking it was full when you got it. In reality you are buying them 3 more gallons you didn't use."

All the rental car cos I use base it on the guage reading. They don't "sell" the gas so there is no advantage to them.
If the guage reads full wether there is 9 gallons in the tank or 10 gallons in the tank it does not benefit the rental company unless they are siponing off the 1 gallon of gas and selling it.

You rent the car with the guage on full and drive it around then bring it back with the guage reading full does not benefit the rental co.

Several repair shops I have spoken to have made repairs caused by ethanol.