BillyGman
01-14-2004, 09:28 AM
After a friendly discussion w/another member on this board in another thread about the 2005 Ford GT vs. Ferrari V12 engine cars, I felt compelled to further express my opinions about the comparisant of different engine designs. But first let me state that although I do have some knowledge on this subject, I also know that there are many others on this board who do too. Furthermore, my intention here is merely to share my opinion, and NOT to come across as being arrogant in any way. So as always I welcome opposing opinions as well as like minded opinions as long as they're expressed in a non-provoking and respectful way.
While I really love the entire design concept of the new 2005 Ford GT, my intention is not to limit my comments, nor this thread simply to the GT alone, but rather to focus on the V8 engine, which seems to be neglected when you look at most of the concept cars these days being paraded around in auto shows. It seems that many people view a V-12 or V-10 engine as the ones to have, and as the engine designs that belong in an "Exotic" sports car, or in a "Supercar".
Now I should point out that I've heard all the arguments in favor of the V10, and V-12 engines. They're "smoother" running, and they are better on gas mileage. Okay then, I'll buy into that theory. But my thoughts are, if i want an "all-out" performance car, why would I be concerned about gas mileage, or a "smooth" sounding engine anyway? When i hit the "Puree" button on my blender to mix a milk shake, that is pretty "smooth" sounding too. But that isn't my idea of a powerful sound.
Now on that note about engine sound, let me pose one question here. How many guys here like the sound of a Japanese designed motorcycle engine more than the exhaust note of a Harley Davidson? Yeah, yeah, I know what you're thinking, so let me say it for you......."But Jap bikes are much faster than Harley bikes are". Well sure, they are in the stock configuration, yes. I don't think the intention of the Harley engineers is to make the fastest bikes anyway. Whereas it IS the intentions of the Jap bike manufactures to make the fastest. But I don't mean to get off topic here. I was just making a comment about engine sound.
But as for the performance issue concerning V8 engines vs. the so called "Exotic" V-12's and V-10's, allow me to point out that it's often said in racing circles that the 350 V8 engine has won more races than any other engine in the world. And that's actually a quote taken out of a book written by the famous Smokey Yunick (uh, you might have heard of him).
Let me pose a question here for those who question the performance potential of the good old V8 engine.........what role has the V-12 engine played on the dragstrip? And what about on the circle track? Those two types of racing represent the ultimate in raw power (Dragstrip), and the test of endurance(circle track). Need I say that the ultimate in both Drag racing as well as in circle track racing are vehicles that use the V8 engine? How many Top Fuel Rail dragsters, or Funny cars do you see at the dragstrip that have V12, or V10 engines? I haven't seen any on TV nor in person at the Drags, so there must not be very many of them, if any at all. What about in Nascar racing? Any V12's, or V10's there?
What about in Monster truck racing? Where is a show off outstanding Torque among the Monster Trucks w/V12, or V10 engines? There's none to be found friends. Can I say it? It's ALL dominated by the good ole V8 engine. And will any of us here, or some bright young upcoming engineers pretend to know something about engine designs and power potentials that the Racers in all three types of racing that I've mentioned do NOT know? So please allow me to suggest that the next time you see what is supposed to be the ultimate performance oriented "concept" car being pitched in a magazine or at a car show, keep in mind that the Pros of all three types of racing that I've mentioned here ALWAYS use the V8 engine in their performance oriented vehicles, and they win races w/them too.
Now there's one more type of racing that I haven't mentioned. Endurance road racing, or "Grand Prix" type racing. And here's where we come full circle and get back to the V8 powered Ford GT. Let's look at the history of the original GT which is what the 2005 GT is derived from. The Ford "GT40" built for the race track in the 60's. I know, I know, for some of you this is old news, but for those of you who have forgotten, and for those of you who don't already know, the so called "Exotic" Ferrari ruled the Track at LeMans for many years. And that's what helped build the prestige sorrounding the Ferarri.
But in the 60's, that prestige of being top dog was crushed by none other than Ford w/the introduction of their "GT40" car. And oh, what is this it had under the hood? Well what do ya know, it was another V8 engine. It started out as a 289 cubeV8 engine, and ended up as the mighty 427 V8. And guess what? It's very first year at LeMans it crippled the Ferraris on the track. The V8 powered GT40's finished First, second, and third place in that same race! Where were the "Exotic" Ferrari's? And for the following three years the GT40 beat the Ferrari. And Ford did it all w/a V8 engine.
So let me cap this off by saying, yeah, I get a little intense about this since I am a car enthusiast. Sure these are only cars I'm talking about, and there are a lot more important things in life to be concerned about. But I'm sure that many of you can relate to my passion for cars, since many of you share that same passion. And that goes weather you like the V8 engine as much as I do or not. But I just wanted to share my thoughts about the Prowess of the V8 engine w/those of you who are interested in hearing my opinion.
The facts I've listed are completely accurate to my knowledge, but if anyone thinks that I've overlooked something, or if anyone has a different viewpoint, then please feel free to share also just as I have. These statements aren't directed at any one member here, so please don't think that they are. From a personal viewpoint, I'm just a little tired of seeing all these "concept" cars being pitched that have V10, and V12 engines. I still think this merely has to do w/some bright young engineers being determined to come up w/something that's different just so they can boost their carrers and make a name for themself within the companies that they work for. Perhaps that's a very opinionated veiwpoint on my part. But it's difficult for me to have another viewpoint in light of the facts that I've listed here about the V8 engine, and what has been accomplished with it.
...and ofcourse there's one more thing....there's nothing like that V8 growl. Nothing sounds like it. As for me, if I want to hear something "smooth" I'll fire up the lady's hair dryer, or turn on the blender, or the weed wacker. But if I want to hear the sound of power, I'll jump in my V8 engined car (either my Vette, or my Marauder) and I'll fire up that bad boy. :)
While I really love the entire design concept of the new 2005 Ford GT, my intention is not to limit my comments, nor this thread simply to the GT alone, but rather to focus on the V8 engine, which seems to be neglected when you look at most of the concept cars these days being paraded around in auto shows. It seems that many people view a V-12 or V-10 engine as the ones to have, and as the engine designs that belong in an "Exotic" sports car, or in a "Supercar".
Now I should point out that I've heard all the arguments in favor of the V10, and V-12 engines. They're "smoother" running, and they are better on gas mileage. Okay then, I'll buy into that theory. But my thoughts are, if i want an "all-out" performance car, why would I be concerned about gas mileage, or a "smooth" sounding engine anyway? When i hit the "Puree" button on my blender to mix a milk shake, that is pretty "smooth" sounding too. But that isn't my idea of a powerful sound.
Now on that note about engine sound, let me pose one question here. How many guys here like the sound of a Japanese designed motorcycle engine more than the exhaust note of a Harley Davidson? Yeah, yeah, I know what you're thinking, so let me say it for you......."But Jap bikes are much faster than Harley bikes are". Well sure, they are in the stock configuration, yes. I don't think the intention of the Harley engineers is to make the fastest bikes anyway. Whereas it IS the intentions of the Jap bike manufactures to make the fastest. But I don't mean to get off topic here. I was just making a comment about engine sound.
But as for the performance issue concerning V8 engines vs. the so called "Exotic" V-12's and V-10's, allow me to point out that it's often said in racing circles that the 350 V8 engine has won more races than any other engine in the world. And that's actually a quote taken out of a book written by the famous Smokey Yunick (uh, you might have heard of him).
Let me pose a question here for those who question the performance potential of the good old V8 engine.........what role has the V-12 engine played on the dragstrip? And what about on the circle track? Those two types of racing represent the ultimate in raw power (Dragstrip), and the test of endurance(circle track). Need I say that the ultimate in both Drag racing as well as in circle track racing are vehicles that use the V8 engine? How many Top Fuel Rail dragsters, or Funny cars do you see at the dragstrip that have V12, or V10 engines? I haven't seen any on TV nor in person at the Drags, so there must not be very many of them, if any at all. What about in Nascar racing? Any V12's, or V10's there?
What about in Monster truck racing? Where is a show off outstanding Torque among the Monster Trucks w/V12, or V10 engines? There's none to be found friends. Can I say it? It's ALL dominated by the good ole V8 engine. And will any of us here, or some bright young upcoming engineers pretend to know something about engine designs and power potentials that the Racers in all three types of racing that I've mentioned do NOT know? So please allow me to suggest that the next time you see what is supposed to be the ultimate performance oriented "concept" car being pitched in a magazine or at a car show, keep in mind that the Pros of all three types of racing that I've mentioned here ALWAYS use the V8 engine in their performance oriented vehicles, and they win races w/them too.
Now there's one more type of racing that I haven't mentioned. Endurance road racing, or "Grand Prix" type racing. And here's where we come full circle and get back to the V8 powered Ford GT. Let's look at the history of the original GT which is what the 2005 GT is derived from. The Ford "GT40" built for the race track in the 60's. I know, I know, for some of you this is old news, but for those of you who have forgotten, and for those of you who don't already know, the so called "Exotic" Ferrari ruled the Track at LeMans for many years. And that's what helped build the prestige sorrounding the Ferarri.
But in the 60's, that prestige of being top dog was crushed by none other than Ford w/the introduction of their "GT40" car. And oh, what is this it had under the hood? Well what do ya know, it was another V8 engine. It started out as a 289 cubeV8 engine, and ended up as the mighty 427 V8. And guess what? It's very first year at LeMans it crippled the Ferraris on the track. The V8 powered GT40's finished First, second, and third place in that same race! Where were the "Exotic" Ferrari's? And for the following three years the GT40 beat the Ferrari. And Ford did it all w/a V8 engine.
So let me cap this off by saying, yeah, I get a little intense about this since I am a car enthusiast. Sure these are only cars I'm talking about, and there are a lot more important things in life to be concerned about. But I'm sure that many of you can relate to my passion for cars, since many of you share that same passion. And that goes weather you like the V8 engine as much as I do or not. But I just wanted to share my thoughts about the Prowess of the V8 engine w/those of you who are interested in hearing my opinion.
The facts I've listed are completely accurate to my knowledge, but if anyone thinks that I've overlooked something, or if anyone has a different viewpoint, then please feel free to share also just as I have. These statements aren't directed at any one member here, so please don't think that they are. From a personal viewpoint, I'm just a little tired of seeing all these "concept" cars being pitched that have V10, and V12 engines. I still think this merely has to do w/some bright young engineers being determined to come up w/something that's different just so they can boost their carrers and make a name for themself within the companies that they work for. Perhaps that's a very opinionated veiwpoint on my part. But it's difficult for me to have another viewpoint in light of the facts that I've listed here about the V8 engine, and what has been accomplished with it.
...and ofcourse there's one more thing....there's nothing like that V8 growl. Nothing sounds like it. As for me, if I want to hear something "smooth" I'll fire up the lady's hair dryer, or turn on the blender, or the weed wacker. But if I want to hear the sound of power, I'll jump in my V8 engined car (either my Vette, or my Marauder) and I'll fire up that bad boy. :)