so much for quality

[schwendemann]

Picked up a new 2004 maurauder two weeks ago, and the transmission has to be replaced. I only put 700 miles on it. So much for FORD quality. I hope this car doesn't turn out to be a lemon.

[PAPAJOHN]

[QUOTE=schwendemann]Picked up a new 2004 maurauder two weeks ago, and the transmission has to be replaced. I only put 700 miles on it. So much for FORD quality. I hope this car doesn't turn out to be a lemon.[/QU
What was the problem?

[schwendemann]

3 rd gear went. It wouldn't even shift into 3rd anymore, the engine just rev'ed.

[TAF]

3 rd gear went. It wouldn't even shift into 3rd anymore, the engine just rev'ed.There is a post today from Dennis saying he has an "04 in his shop that did not get the "upgraded" 4R75W tranny. It would be interesting for you to confirm which one was actually in your '04.
Click here...http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7456&highlight=4r75w

[PAPAJOHN]

3 rd gear went. It wouldn't even shift into 3rd anymore, the engine just rev'ed.
NOT GOOD!
I've got 3,000 on my 04 --- no problems

[Dr Caleb]

In the last couple years, I've noticed they've changed slogans from "Quality is Job #1" to "Built Ford Tough". I don't believe ethier one.

But I still wouldn't buy any other car.

[TripleTransAm]

But I still wouldn't buy any other car.

Truth be told, there isn't any other car to buy.

I wonder if that's given Ford permission to cut corners? ie. "we're the only game in town, we can do what we want"

[Bigdogjim]

Truth be told, there isn't any other car to buy.

I wonder if that's given Ford permission to cut corners? ie. "we're the only game in town, we can do what we want"


In past I might have agreed. However today Ford is dropping market shares. Now the Japs are after the #1 sales leader the F-line-up. :eek: :depress:

Truth is they (Ford) meed to pay attention to what really matters. Transmission have been a weak point with Ford for a while.

"Built Ford Tough
Not like they use to be I have seen problems with the E-series van that has not been an issue on early '90's models.

[dwasson]

I live less than 3 miles from Ford's world HQ but I think that Ford is really screwing up lately. I'm not seeing any indication that they pay attention to quality. With the Japanese building cars with decent paint and finish and mechanicals there are alternatives to buying a car from the Big 3. Maybe Joe car buyer doesn't get a Marauder but he can get an Infiniti that will never let him down. If Ford doesn't shape up they are in real trouble. The hard-core can't save them. They need to build some cars that my wife wants. They need to build a car that doesn't have flaws that make you angry whenever you think about them.

[junehhan]

Hold on...........

That's one Marauder, out of how many out there? I believe that perception and reality are very different from each other. The Marauder appears to be an incredibly solid car based on what i'm reading here. Public message forums always generally reflect more negative opinions on any vehicle because when people have a problem, they want to vent and tell everyone. On the other hand, people who have a good experience generally arn't as vocal and you won't hear as much from them. I believe that Ford makes very reliable cars, and the perception of them is different because of the past issues people have had...........

[TripleTransAm]

That's one Marauder, out of how many out there?

Not many, based on the sales figures. If you think about the number of folks complaining about squeaking seat tracks or sliced harnesses or ticking driver's side heads, compare that with the number of MM owners who are on this board, and work it out as a possible percentage of total owners, it's still quite a bit.

And while a few are vocal about their problems, I'm sure there are many who keep to themselves until they see a great number of folks complaining about the same thing. Take my ticking driver's side head as an example: the moment we began to dig deeper into the link between our problem and the Cobra TSB, all sorts of folks came out with "me too"s... you have no idea how many times I've been PM'ed for advice and suggestions on how to proceed.

And what disturbs me the most is not the actual problems themselves, but the fact that they keep reoccurring all along the model year. The harness issue, for example: I posted my wonderful story in mid May about a sliced harness stranding me. Soon after, I received a link to another thread discussing the exact same thing and the resolution... from 10 MONTHS PRIOR! So even though Ford came to the proper conclusion of what was causing this problem in July 2002 with an early build car (May 2002?), I STILL suffered the same thing on my car built Feb 2003! This proves NO attention was paid to real world problems... a total disconnect between quality control and existing customer satisfaction. Same for the squeaky seats. The condensation in the headlights. The weak paint... etc.

So it isn't so much about the actual NUMBER of problems... it's the disregard for implementing a solution in a timely fashion.

If you don't believe my opinion of Ford quality, go ask owners of Ford Focus cars from model year 2000 what happens when they have a few more than average keys on their keychains... ask them if Ford paid them for the repairs, OR the tow.

[merc406]

All the auto companies are under termendous pressure to build cheaper for more profit. The parts suppliers just got asked to fork over more. What u get is what they payed for :help: , cheaper parts from China (.25cents and hour),ta Tim Buck Too. And the Bush plan for the Mexican worker's will spell more trouble for our workers. :bandit:
We had a whole town here that made Vacumn Cleaner's for a hundred years just announce that they are packing up and moving to Mexico where the wage is 75cents to 1.50.
When these Countries have had enough of us polluting their land :cry: and Labor gets smart :sleepy: , things will even out.
Do ya think anything will get cheaper for us to buy, NOT. :lol:

[TripleTransAm]

Good point about all companies getting cheap... even the almighty Honda Civic has gone to a front suspension setup that is supposedly cheaper but is failing left and right on our roads up here.

I hope my MM's aluminum front end doesn't succumb to the same fate...

[joflewbyu2]

well i am taking precautions. i just ordered my B&M racing deep aluminum finned tranny pan (3 quarts more) and Redline full synthetic ATF. Ordered 5 gallons (20 quarts) just in case i decide to go with the additional tranny cooler than Dennis has out. Factory holds about 14 quarts plus the 3 in the new pan allows 3 more for the cooler.

[merc406]

well i am taking precautions. i just ordered my B&M racing deep aluminum finned tranny pan (3 quarts more) and Redline full synthetic ATF. Ordered 5 gallons (20 quarts) just in case i decide to go with the additional tranny cooler than Dennis has out. Factory holds about 14 quarts plus the 3 in the new pan allows 3 more for the cooler.


Make sure they give ya the filter pickup extension. :up:

[Silver_04]

If you don't believe my opinion of Ford quality, go ask owners of Ford Focus cars from model year 2000 what happens when they have a few more than average keys on their keychains... ask them if Ford paid them for the repairs, OR the tow.

2001 Ford Focus ZX3 here-5 recalls (three to fix what I would call major safety defects), 4 warranty repairs (wipers died at 36k in a rain shower, EGR @ ~18k, brakes 2 times) and a button just fell off of the radio and the CD died and I'm outta luck there with 50K on the clock. I design radios for a living and how the heck they found a supplier that couldn't design a button to live for more than 50K miles is beyond me. And it's the FADE button. I maybe used that button 10 times in three years!

As for my '04 MM-Bad alignment, noisy back shelf and the passenger window run channel and parts of the mirror have been replaced. I also had a scuff in the back seat from the factory-nice dealer is fixing for me for free. Really ticked me off that Mercury did not tell the service department how to fix the back shelf (obviously a known problem), I had to take directions from this website. Guess I got lucky with the paint-kind of on the soft side but on the good side of acceptable.

Things can only get so cheap FORD!

But you know what-I'm looking at picking up an SVT Focus this week because I'm keeping the faith. It's either Ford or GM for me. I think Fords biggest problem is that they leave too much up to their suppliers. That should be a big no-no. They don't necessarly need to bring things in house, but they definately need some more experts in house. My $0.02.

[bigbaga]

I was on a business trip to Phoenix last week. When I got off the Hertz bus I expected to get my usual Taurus or Sable. I was very surprised to see a brand new Infinity G35, totally loaded, leather, moonroof, etc. I was very surprised. I'm not ready to buy a rice burner, nor most likely ever will, but that car was solid! I have had Toyota rental cars before and was not impressed. This Infinity was too cool. It was also very fast. I really enjoyed the "slap shift" transmission and the general feel of the vehicle. I just passed 12,000 with my silver 03 MM and, (knock on wood) it has been solid as I can ask. The competition is brutal, and as the globe keeps getting smaller it will get more brutal. I'm not ready to bail on FoMoCo. I've been a fan too long.

Greg

[junehhan]

For those die-hard Ford Motor Company fans out there like you and me, competition is a very good thing, and is the very essence of what a free market really is. Therefore, for those who never plan on buying anything but a blue oval product(or green oval if you like Land Rover's), competition is going to force Ford products to get even better and better which is a win-win situation. I have to admit that my experience with Ford is not perfect, but I keep coming back as i'm just loyal I guess.


Just out of a side note, has anyone else noticed that the blue Ford oval, and the green Land Rover oval is exactly the same size? Interesting as it was only very recently that Ford bought Land Rover from BMW. Maybe Land Rover long time ago somehow envisioned a future with Ford? Either way, that makes me excited as both my Land Rover's were garbage and their marriage with Ford will only make them better.............

[Michael_S]

Here's my two cents:

1. Like someone else said, errors get a lot of attention. Nobody posts to the forum each week "Well, nothing on my Marauder broke." If they did, there would be a hundred thousand "No problems here" posts every month that didn't have anything important to say. So while I sympathize with people who have problems with their Marauders, those problems do not necessarily imply that most, many, or even more than a tiny minority of the cars have the problem. Read big statistics for that kind of info.

2. I feel sorry for the Mexicans in Mexico. I disagree with the ones getting amnesty in the US - but that's another topic. The ones in Mexico, though, are actually losing jobs to China and Vietnam just as fast as Americans. I read a news article that over 30% of the jobs created in Mexico since NAFTA have moved over-seas. I wonder if anybody in this hemisphere (who doesn't have a major stake in a big corporation) has benefitted from NAFTA.

3. I think the Big Three can hold their own against foreign automakers. Foreign automakers are moving into the big truck segment, but all of the new cars and concept cars of the last two years from the Big Three have impressed me. They might lose some of their dominance of the big truck market, but if they keep working hard and making good cars maybe they can take back big chunks of the family car market.

What I really want to see is somebody hammer Toyota for playing both sides of the fence. I'm not usually one to give a hoot about 'Media bias', but their hybrid cars are absurd. For every 40 mpg car they sell, they probably sell at least two or three 14 mpg vehicles, but somehow they still get to wear the badge of 'environmentally friendly'.

[RCSignals]

I was on a business trip to Phoenix last week. When I got off the Hertz bus I expected to get my usual Taurus or Sable. I was very surprised to see a brand new Infinity G35, totally loaded, leather, moonroof, etc. I was very surprised.
Greg

That surprises me too. Not a good sign if Infinity is dumping into rental fleets

[RCSignals]

I live less than 3 miles from Ford's world HQ but I think that Ford is really screwing up lately. I'm not seeing any indication that they pay attention to quality. With the Japanese building cars with decent paint and finish and mechanicals there are alternatives to buying a car from the Big 3. Maybe Joe car buyer doesn't get a Marauder but he can get an Infiniti that will never let him down. If Ford doesn't shape up they are in real trouble. The hard-core can't save them. They need to build some cars that my wife wants. They need to build a car that doesn't have flaws that make you angry whenever you think about them.

Actually I think Ford is improving and on the road to recovery after Nasser.

People are always blindly stating the Japanese build superior cars of high quality. They've been making such statements since the mid seventies really, and It's mostly because the Japanese have had excellent marketing and propaganda. They've convinced people that their cars are so special they always have to pay full bore, or can only have a small "sale" price.
I assure, things are really not all that Rosy, and that Japanese vehicles have their share of problems and recalls. They have an awful lot of transmission problems as well, especially with the automatics in FWD cars (which most are these days)
You can keep that "Infiniti" as far as I'm concerned

Now relax and put on some good Pipe tunes

[Marauderjack]

How can you tell which transmission you have??? :confused: :confused:

Marauderjack :pimp:

[MapleLeafMerc]

Actually I think Ford is improving and on the road to recovery after Nasser.

People are always blindly stating the Japanese build superior cars of high quality. They've been making such statements since the mid seventies really, and It's mostly because the Japanese have had excellent marketing and propaganda. They've convinced people that their cars are so special they always have to pay full bore, or can only have a small "sale" price.
I assure, things are really not all that Rosy, and that Japanese vehicles have their share of problems and recalls. They have an awful lot of transmission problems as well, especially with the automatics in FWD cars (which most are these days)

I agree!

I can remember when NA cars were raked over the coals for rusting, and imports were promoted as God's gift to rustproof vehicle technology. Fast forward a few years, and guess what? I see LOTS of rusty imports and NA assembled Hondas, Toyotas, etc. The 'usual suspects' don't talk about rust anymore.



You can keep that "Infiniti" as far as I'm concerned

Now relax and put on some good Pipe tunes

And figure this out- my oldest brother went rice last year by getting an Infiniti, AND he plays the bagpipes!!!

[TripleTransAm]

People are always blindly stating the Japanese build superior cars of high quality. They've been making such statements since the mid seventies really, and It's mostly because the Japanese have had excellent marketing and propaganda.

Well, propaganda and marketing isn't what's kept my '98 Civic on the road for 4 years (bought in 2000) with $0 in unscheduled maintenance (I just recently spent my first $$ on the car because the timing belt was due, and bought a new battery to replace the 6 year old original, + tune up and fuel filter change and the total was $300 Can at the dealer - $300 Can total in maintenance over 4 years of ownership). Just my own personal experience over the years. Had good results from other Honda products both for me and my family as well (dad, uncle, cousins, etc.). All have had NA cars over the years, and have switched to Honda and said goodbye to reliability issues.

I really hope the NA car companies can get to the root of their ills and do something about it. I like Honda reliability, but in factory setup their cars generate as much excitement as old Aunt Gloria in a bikini on Senior's Day at the beach.

[T-90K]

Ford Contour Sport 2000: 76000 miles so far.
Trunk latch change (on 5000), warranty covered. Thats it.
(I will not mention brake pads, tires & oil changes)
And it is a real fun to drive.

[Dr Caleb]

If you don't believe my opinion of Ford quality, go ask owners of Ford Focus cars from model year 2000 what happens when they have a few more than average keys on their keychains... ask them if Ford paid them for the repairs, OR the tow.

What happens???? My sister has a 2000 Focus wagon!!!!

[Dr Caleb]

When I got off the Hertz bus I expected to get my usual Taurus or Sable. I was very surprised to see a brand new Infinity G35, totally loaded, leather, moonroof, etc. I was very surprised.
Greg

That's extremely surprising, since Hertz is owned by Ford. :confused:

[T-90K]

What happens???? My sister has a 2001 Focus!!!!
Focus 2000 - first year on NA market. Bunch of bugs...
2001 - much more reliable car.

[Michael_S]

If you look hard enough, you can certainly find a Civic that is in the shop every month or a Dodge Neon that has never had an unscheduled repair. That doesn't change the fact that Civics are generally reliable and Neons generally are not.

You can't make blanket statements about a particular model or a particular auto maker based upon the repairs for a handful of cars.

[dwasson]

If you look hard enough, you can certainly find a Civic that is in the shop every month or a Dodge Neon that has never had an unscheduled repair. That doesn't change the fact that Civics are generally reliable and Neons generally are not.

You can't make blanket statements about a particular model or a particular auto maker based upon the repairs for a handful of cars.
True, and the Big 3 will be better served to believe that the japanese make better cars and compete, rather than insist that people who buy Honda's are wrong.

Let's start with some basic truths:

The Japanese are compulsive. It causes a Japanese psychic trauma to walk into a room and see that the light switch plates are at uneven heights or crooked.

Most Americans don't seem to notice.

This compulsive attitude in the Japanese leads them to obsess about every thing that goes into car. The switchgear on a 88 Civic with 235K miles feels better than most new Big 3 cars.

Who would you rather hire to do a complex job, a casual guy who sees everything in broad strokes? Or an obsessive quality freak who checks and rechecks everything.

Now, that Japanese attitude doesn't mean that typical Japanese cars have much soul. The Honda Accord is a great transportation appliance. But, it won't leave you broke down on the side of the road. For my wife (and for my purposes as her husband) that is the most important thing.

And if the Marauder betrays me in some spectacular way how much forgiveness should I show Ford? This Marauder is Ford's chance to bring me back from finishing my life in Japanese cars. How many chances should a consumer give them?

I wish that it were otherwise.

[Macon Marauder]

I'm convinced that any car company can build a good car - or a bad car. You pays your money and you takes your chances. I've owned lots of FoMoCo cars and trucks - and with the exception of 2 Windstars - they were all well-made, quality vehicles. Even the ones built in the 80's when Ford's quality rep took a serious tumble.

All this stuff is anecdotal and has to be taken with a grain of salt. For example: my in-laws LOVE Hondas. They practically have a fleet of them. And they LOVE to brag on their quality and reliability. Which is strange, since their Odyssey (sp?) is on its 3rd trans, the 5-speed Accord is on its 2nd clutch, and the automatic Accord is on its second trans. Every time we turn around, one of their Hondas seems to be in the shop. And the repair prices are outrageous. So does Honda build bad cars? No.

My point is that I don't believe any brand has cornered the market on quality. But a few have been more successful at promoting that perception.

[TripleTransAm]

What happens???? My sister has a 2000 Focus wagon!!!!

The column cylinder will fail because of the weight of the keychain on the ignition key as it's in use. The car will refuse to crank and/or the key will refuse to turn. Even though it's a design flaw, Ford refuses to foot the bill for repairs.

What gets me is... haven't they been using ignition keys for years? What prompted them to decide to go cheap on a part that probably paid for itself by 1975?

[Fourth Horseman]

All this stuff is anecdotal and has to be taken with a grain of salt. For example: my in-laws LOVE Hondas. They practically have a fleet of them. And they LOVE to brag on their quality and reliability. Which is strange, since their Odyssey (sp?) is on its 3rd trans, the 5-speed Accord is on its 2nd clutch, and the automatic Accord is on its second trans. Every time we turn around, one of their Hondas seems to be in the shop. And the repair prices are outrageous. So does Honda build bad cars? No.

My point is that I don't believe any brand has cornered the market on quality. But a few have been more successful at promoting that perception.

I think you're absolutely right that a lot of this is perception of reality rather than reality itself. Still, my last two Ford vehicles haven't been as sharp in the quality control department as others that I've owned. I expected more from a $35k car than what I got.

Don't get me wrong, I love the car and wouldn't trade it for anything. I just think the fit and finish haven't lived up to the price I paid. My next car will most likely not be from Ford Motor Company. Just my $0.02.

[TripleTransAm]

And if the Marauder betrays me in some spectacular way how much forgiveness should I show Ford? This Marauder is Ford's chance to bring me back from finishing my life in Japanese cars. How many chances should a consumer give them?

Dan, you've put my thoughts into words in a most efficient way. I have to admit I've taken a lot of flack from my co-workers over my Marauder's down time (harness, head, etc.). Doesn't seem to impress them much when I try to swing the 1/4 mile argument against them, or the handling, or the look...

But you nailed it right on the head: seems it's a tradeoff between appliance-like reliability and soul. Does a car with soul have to have an attitude (in general) and does a reliable car have to be devoid of soul (again, in general)?

GM seems to be harping on the 'new' jap-like cars it's bringing out (the new Malibu, the new smaller cars, etc.). But they excite me about as much as a beige 1972 slant-six Dodge Dart 4 door. In contrast, the Marauder has me tingling like a 14 year-old at a Britney concert.

Interesting to note is how many late model Asian cars are popping up with horrible quality defects lately. As much as I like Hondas for their reliability, I'm hearing too many horror stories from the newer models, and there have been way too many glitches with friends' Mazdas and such. What's changed?????

[Dr Caleb]

Here's my two cents:
I wonder if anybody in this hemisphere (who doesn't have a major stake in a big corporation) has benefitted from NAFTA.


No. At least, not to my knowledge.

http://www.thenation.com./doc.mhtml?i=20040202&s=faux

[Michael_S]

Edmunds.com listed transmission problems with their 2003 Honda Odyssey vehicle, and they got all sorts of nasty letters from Honda fans that they must be lying. I forget what sources they listed, but they do claim that Honda has lost some quality, particularly with transmissions.

I forget where I read this, but I think I saw somewhere that recently Toyota (and Lexus) has top reliability but GM is actually second, not Honda or Subaru. Mitsubishi actually has a lot of reliability problems. Ford is also doing pretty well and Chrysler is improving although still poor.

Interestingly, Audi, Mercedes, and BMW all have poor reliability. I can't imagine poor reliability in a luxury car, but somehow they get away with it and people come back for more. That's total garbage. If I pay more than $40,000 for a car, I would expect it to last a lot longer than I do.

[RCSignals]

Focus 2000 - first year on NA market. Bunch of bugs...
2001 - much more reliable car.


Yes the first year they made a lot of mistakes, and Nasser's decisions did it no good.
Still, if you read Focus related forums, you'll see a lot of owners claim they experienced none of the reported problems, and even though they had to have things "fixed" in recalls, didn't have problems with the recall items.

Personally I wouldn't buy a Focus anyway.

[Mark McQuaide]

To be sure, you can't make too many assumptions on quality just from the make of the car. The worst car my Dad ever owned was an S-class Mercedes. Things broke on a regular basis, from the tranny to the inside door panels falling off.

I myself had a Mercury Mystique LS 5-speed that was absolutely flawless for 80,000 miles of continual flogging, before I traded it on a Passat V-6 5 speed that was also flawless for another 90,000 miles of hard driving.

Our '91 Taurus Wagon was a complete piece of s*it, shot after 50K. Our '96 Passat VR6 5-sp wagon was great, but ate tires and needed $6000 of work after 75k miles so we dumped it. Our '02 Mountaineer had a bad tranny, fixed under warranty, but it still isn't right.

The Marauder has a lot of small niggling things but is solid overall after 20 k miles. And I do think there can be a tradeoff between soul and appliance-like quality. I'll take the soul any day, as long as it doesn't leave me stranded more than once or so.

[RCSignals]

All this stuff is anecdotal and has to be taken with a grain of salt. For example: my in-laws LOVE Hondas. They practically have a fleet of them. And they LOVE to brag on their quality and reliability. Which is strange, since their Odyssey (sp?) is on its 3rd trans, the 5-speed Accord is on its 2nd clutch, and the automatic Accord is on its second trans. Every time we turn around, one of their Hondas seems to be in the shop. And the repair prices are outrageous. So does Honda build bad cars? No.

My point is that I don't believe any brand has cornered the market on quality. But a few have been more successful at promoting that perception.

Exactly. It's amusing how tolerant owners of Japanese cars of such problems, to the point of being blind to them.

[Dr Caleb]

Personally I wouldn't buy a Focus anyway.


I dunno man, they're nicer than you think! Power locks, windows, seats etc, CD 4 speaker deck. . . Hers has aluminum wheels, 5 door, V-6, and is black, so it looks good next to the Marauder :)

I'd buy a Focus over a Mazda Protege, Toyota Matrix or Honda Prelude anyday!

One of the few NA cars in C&D top 10 this year too!

[RCSignals]

Glenn, I don't disagree. I don't hate the focus, just don't want one.
I do like the pattern of the cloth they use in them, reminds me of the funky cloth patterns Ford used in '57.


I'd buy a Focus over a Mazda Protege, Toyota Matrix or Honda Prelude anyday!

given those as the only choices, yes

[MapleLeafMerc]

Dan, you've put my thoughts into words in a most efficient way. I have to admit I've taken a lot of flack from my co-workers over my Marauder's down time (harness, head, etc.). Doesn't seem to impress them much when I try to swing the 1/4 mile argument against them, or the handling, or the look...

But you nailed it right on the head: seems it's a tradeoff between appliance-like reliability and soul. Does a car with soul have to have an attitude (in general) and does a reliable car have to be devoid of soul (again, in general)?



With all due respect to everyone offended by this, The standard for "soul" in cars was set by Detroit iron years ago. I can remember when cars here were sold partly for looking stylish and different. Now the mainstream market says "this is what your $20/30/40K car will look like" . Back then you could go 120 miles per hour on minimum wage ;)


GM seems to be harping on the 'new' jap-like cars it's bringing out (the new Malibu, the new smaller cars, etc.). But they excite me about as much as a beige 1972 slant-six Dodge Dart 4 door.


Drove one! :eek:



Interesting to note is how many late model Asian cars are popping up with horrible quality defects lately. As much as I like Hondas for their reliability, I'm hearing too many horror stories from the newer models, and there have been way too many glitches with friends' Mazdas and such. What's changed?????

When countries trade freely, their economies reach an equilibrium. (I think).

[Dr Caleb]

I agree RC, I don't want one ethier. . . but I do point them out to people looking for econobox type of vehicle :)

[T-90K]

Personally I wouldn't buy a Focus anyway.
But somehow you got Marauder, right? :)
Focus SVT is one great peace of fun. It's not about style and solid authority like MM, but just great ride and handling.
I'm not sure will I buy it or not, but I'm pretty sure I will not buy Toyota Corolla, Camry or Solara - very reliable cars but with no soul and neutral handling. I don't need a dog with no balls neither...

[Haggis]

You all probably already know this, but Mazda is owned by Ford and some of the other foreign car manufactures are owned in full or part by Ford and GM just as Chrystler is owned by Daimler-Benz. How many remember the Dodge Colt it was built by Mitsubishi. Who can say a Japanese or Korean car is any better when they are owned by an American car company. So no wonder different makes of cars are experience the same problems, we have just been brained washed into believing Japanese relibality all these years. The power of good marketing and advertising is all it is.

[RF Overlord]

In contrast, the Marauder has me tingling like a 14 year-old at a Britney concert.

/Steve:

Thanks for that disturbing mental image... :eek:

[RCSignals]

But somehow you got Marauder, right? :)
Focus SVT is one great peace of fun. It's not about style and solid authority like MM, but just great ride and handling.
I'm not sure will I buy it or not, but I'm pretty sure I will not buy Toyota Corolla, Camry or Solara - very reliable cars but with no soul and neutral handling. I don't need a dog with no balls neither...

Well I only said I didn't want a focus. :)

I also said if that type of car was my only choice, out of all available I'd pick the focus

[T-90K]

Well I only said I didn't want a focus. :)

I also said if that type of car was my only choice, out of all available I'd pick the focus
Now I can sleep well!!! :beer: