Obama - new deficit spending (borrowing) for wealthy chevy buyers

[babbage]

There’s no clearer example of just how wrong the president’s blueprint is than his decision to increase subsidies for electric vehicles like the $41,000 Chevy Volt while ending funding for the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship Program (DCOSP), which gives low-income children in the nation’s capital a chance to escape underperforming schools. The White House intends to increase taxpayer-funded subsidies for those who purchase new-technology vehicles to $10,000 per buyer, up from $7,500. Keep in mind that the average income of a Volt buyer is $175,000 per year. That means that middle-class taxpayers are helping the rich buy pricy, politically correct cars.

[Haggis]

He will do anything the help the Democratic Elite. While the blue collar consertatives suffer.

[CBT]

There’s no clearer example of just how wrong the president’s blueprint is than his decision to increase subsidies for electric vehicles like the $41,000 Chevy Volt while ending funding for the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship Program (DCOSP), which gives low-income children in the nation’s capital a chance to escape underperforming schools. The White House intends to increase taxpayer-funded subsidies for those who purchase new-technology vehicles to $10,000 per buyer, up from $7,500. Keep in mind that the average income of a Volt buyer is $175,000 per year. That means that middle-class taxpayers are helping the rich buy pricy, politically correct cars.


Chevy has better lobbyists.

[Ozark Marauder]

:concur:

"The problem is said to be the price of the Volt, which is a massive understatement, because everyone buying a Volt is understating the price. No one purchasing a Volt has the faintest clue what it really costs, because of all the taxpayer subsidies plowed into production, and hefty rebates offered at the point of sale. $400 million in federal subsidies were extracted from the taxpayer to fund Volt production, and buyers have enjoyed a $7500 federal tax credit.

That means each of the 3200 Volts sold thus far has rolled out of the lot with $132,500 in taxpayer subsidies stuffed in the glove compartment. They sticker at $41,000, so that means each Volt sold thus far actually costs $173,500, with only $33,500 paid by the actual purchaser.

What if GM’s rosy sales predictions come true? Assuming the $7500 tax credit says in place, that would bring the total subsidies paid for Volt production and sales up to $700 million. Divided by 40,000 automobiles, that works out to $17,500 in subsidies apiece. The Volt is about to have a price drop to $39,995, so by 2012 the true price of each car would be a mere $47,495.

Some lessons for those foolish enough to continue believing in the “green economy,” and wondering why billions of dollars have been seized from future taxpayers without visible benefit to employment or GDP:

1. Very few people want to buy a crummy little electric car for $40,000.

2. Nobody can make a crummy little electric car that sells for $40,000.

3. Absolutely no one wants to buy a crummy little electric car for the true price of over $100,000 apiece.

4. It is an outrage to compel taxpayers to subsidize the fantasy of a tiny group of politicians and their followers that crummy little electric cars can be sold for $40,000.

5. There is nowhere taxpayers can go to get their money back after this miserable failure, so it is vital to ensure that people who support nonsense like the Volt, and the rest of the Obama “green jobs” agenda, are never elected to any office, anywhere, ever."

Taken From:Hard times for the Chevy Volt


Full steam ahead to epic failure!
by John Hayward (http://www.humanevents.com/search.php?author_name=John+Ha yward)

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=45632

OZ

[Bluerauder]

There’s no clearer example of just how wrong the president’s blueprint is than his decision to increase subsidies for electric vehicles like the $41,000 Chevy Volt while ending funding for the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship Program (DCOSP), which gives low-income children in the nation’s capital a chance to escape underperforming schools. The White House intends to increase taxpayer-funded subsidies for those who purchase new-technology vehicles to $10,000 per buyer, up from $7,500. Keep in mind that the average income of a Volt buyer is $175,000 per year. That means that middle-class taxpayers are helping the rich buy pricy, politically correct cars.

Underperforming schools in the District of Columbia (DC) ?? How can that be? Per student spending in DC is near $20K and at or near the highest in the nation. Test scores are among the lowest. DC School Facilities are among most dilapidated and poorly maintained in the country. I wonder where all that money is going?? :rolleyes: Michele Rhee, former Chancellor of DC Schools was on the right track of getting rid of deadwood, underperforming teachers, admin and staff and holding people accountable. DC would have NONE of that and subsequently "canned" Ms. Rhee. They don't want improvement, they can't handle improvement and like things pretty much the way they are.

Just found out this week that some DC school employees are simultaneously collecting a salary AND unemployment benefits. Low income children in DC can only escape from underperforming schools by getting the h3LL out of DC.

IBTL -- this topic's clock is ticking. ;)

[sailsmen]

The Federal Gov't with over 300,000 Laws/Regulations of which 4,500 are in the Fed Criminal Code. Fed spending has increased 29% in 3 years up to 25% of our economy. 536 People, Congress + President, control 25% of our economy. In 3 years the Federal Gov't has increased he Public Debt as a percent of our economy 80%, making those who pay income tax indentured servants for the rest of their income tax paying lives.

There are 15 Gov't workers for every 85 private sector workers. Total Gov't spending is now 46.4% of our economy totaling $58,100 per private sector worker. How can each private sector worker possibly carry a Gov't spending burden of $58,100? They cannot and that is why our economy cannot flourish. It is the equivalent of standing in a bath tub while continually scouping up the water and drinking it. Eventually you die from drinking your own urine.

8 Year Annual Average Clinton vs Bush
Measurement 60 Year Post WW II Annual Average President Clinton President Bush
8 Years Annual Average Unemployment 5.60% 5.21% 5.26%
8 Years Annual Average Annual Deficit as a Percent of our Economy -1.70% -0.08% -2.00%
8 Years Annual Average Public Debt as a Percent of our Economy 40.80% 44.90% 36.10%
8 Years Annual Average Annual Tax Collections N/A $1.55 Trillion $2.14 Trillion
8 Years Annual Average Spending as a Percent of our economy 19.90% 19.80% 19.60%

3 Year Annual Average Clinton vs Bush vs Obama
Measurement 60 Year Post WW II Annual Average President Clinton President Bush President Obama
3 Years Annual Average Unemployment 5.60% 6.20% 5.50% 9.30%
3 Years Annual Average Annual Deficit as a Percent of our Economy -1.70% -3.00% -1.20% -9.90%
3 Years Annual Average Public Debt as a Percent of our Economy 40.80% 49.20% 33.90% 62.60%
3 Years Annual Average Annual Tax Collections N/A $1.25 Trillion $1.88 Trillion $2.15 Trillion
3 Years Annual Average Spending as a Percent of our economy 19.90% 21.00% 19.00% 24.70%

Note: All Data is from the Government BLS and OMB

From 1948-2008 whenever Fed spending exceeded 20% of our Economy for 2 or more years Unemploment went up by a min of 50% and stayed there until Fed spending dropped below 20% of our Economy regardless of wether our Economy grew or shrank. Obama's Budgets budgeted 22.3+% through 2016 keeping ~6 million people unemployed.
Per CNN Money - "A permanent extension of everyone's tax cuts would cost an estimated $3.7 trillion over the next decade. More than 80% of that cost is attributable to extending the cuts for the middle class, which both parties and President Obama have said they want to do."
McClatchy Washington Bureau
Posted on Mon, Dec. 06, 2010
Democrats could scuttle Obama-GOP tax cut deal
Steven Thomma and David Lightman | McClatchy Newspapers
last updated: December 06, 2010 11:06:09 PM
"the plan would total about $900 billion over two years — adding that to the projected federal deficit and the federal debt. Extending the Bush-era tax cuts would cost the Treasury $3.7 trillion over 10 years, including $3 trillion in taxes on annual incomes below $250,000 and $700 billion on incomes higher than that."

[RF Overlord]

The gummint OWNS GM, so of course there's no way they'll be allowed to fail at anything, as that would imply the gummint is incompetent.

Wait...um....

[1 Bad Merc]

The government has to do everything they can to "pump up" GM as they are still a huge stockholder. They currently cant sell the stock or they will take some huge losses! They dont want to admit they might be wrong so they are going to throw more of our money at it!!!!

They must have shifted the school admins over to the GM situation -it sure sounds familiar -doesnt it?

[Shaijack]

When Haggis and I start our country there will be no GM products. The world will be a better place. Free Gas also. Marauder owners are tax free.

[kernie]

If the bailouts didn't happen the complaints would be very loud, rightfully so.

Danged if ya do, danged if you don't.

[jabird56]

AND OH NO DON"T GO THERE!.... Nobody has even "touched" the HAZMAT aspects of the production and disposal of the batteries in these cars.

[GAMike]

If this is true (if every fact is not, its got to be damn close) this sickens me to my stomach........ Thanks for posting this Ozark.... ~Beat me to it jabird hehehehe~We still don't really understand the long term environmental impact of the batteries that these vehicles run on..... What will be the cost to future generations of cleaning those up when they start breaking down... Add that to the $173k.......:shake:

:concur:

"The problem is said to be the price of the Volt, which is a massive understatement, because everyone buying a Volt is understating the price. No one purchasing a Volt has the faintest clue what it really costs, because of all the taxpayer subsidies plowed into production, and hefty rebates offered at the point of sale. $400 million in federal subsidies were extracted from the taxpayer to fund Volt production, and buyers have enjoyed a $7500 federal tax credit.

That means each of the 3200 Volts sold thus far has rolled out of the lot with $132,500 in taxpayer subsidies stuffed in the glove compartment. They sticker at $41,000, so that means each Volt sold thus far actually costs $173,500, with only $33,500 paid by the actual purchaser.

What if GM’s rosy sales predictions come true? Assuming the $7500 tax credit says in place, that would bring the total subsidies paid for Volt production and sales up to $700 million. Divided by 40,000 automobiles, that works out to $17,500 in subsidies apiece. The Volt is about to have a price drop to $39,995, so by 2012 the true price of each car would be a mere $47,495.

Some lessons for those foolish enough to continue believing in the “green economy,” and wondering why billions of dollars have been seized from future taxpayers without visible benefit to employment or GDP:

1. Very few people want to buy a crummy little electric car for $40,000.

2. Nobody can make a crummy little electric car that sells for $40,000.

3. Absolutely no one wants to buy a crummy little electric car for the true price of over $100,000 apiece.

4. It is an outrage to compel taxpayers to subsidize the fantasy of a tiny group of politicians and their followers that crummy little electric cars can be sold for $40,000.

5. There is nowhere taxpayers can go to get their money back after this miserable failure, so it is vital to ensure that people who support nonsense like the Volt, and the rest of the Obama “green jobs” agenda, are never elected to any office, anywhere, ever."

Taken From:Hard times for the Chevy Volt


Full steam ahead to epic failure!
by John Hayward (http://www.humanevents.com/search.php?author_name=John+Ha yward)

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=45632

OZ

[sailsmen]

One of the top metal recyclers in the World told me the batts cannot be recycled.
Here's what really funy the batts are made from "rare Earth metals" that cannot be recycled. :lol:

[Go2GuyFL]

When Haggis and I start our country there will be no GM products. The world will be a better place. Free Gas also. Marauder owners are tax free.

Will you be offering subsidies for current Marauder owners to expand their collection to adopt all four colors? While your 3/4ths, I'm still 1/2 way there.

[FordNut]

One of the top metal recyclers in the World told me the batts cannot be recycled.
Here's what really funy the batts are made from "rare Earth metals" that cannot be recycled. :lol:

Yeah, but they're heavy so they'll be hidden in scrap metal of all sorts and then eventually lead to groundwater pollution. Damn greenies...

Same thing happened when they mandated MTBE in gasoline to clean the air, they didn't think about the fact that it's not biodegradeable and gets spilled on the ground at gas stations all over the country, washing into the groundwater all over the country.

[vkirkend]

AND OH NO DON"T GO THERE!.... Nobody has even "touched" the HAZMAT aspects of the production and disposal of the batteries in these cars.


Come on Guys!!!!

Batteries are made of Plastic on the outside and lead plates on the inside.... What's not recycleable? And while I agree that the public schools are not at the level of performance they should be. That is an issue in ANY area where the locals are majority non-whites. But why should I as a tax payer subsidize private schooling ANYWHERE not just in the DC area. The no child left behind act under the previous administration has been a disaster and needs to be abolished!

[sailsmen]

Come on Guys!!!!

Batteries are made of Plastic on the outside and lead plates on the inside.... What's not recycleable? And while I agree that the public schools are not at the level of performance they should be. That is an issue in ANY area where the locals are majority non-whites. But why should I as a tax payer subsidize private schooling ANYWHERE not just in the DC area. The no child left behind act under the previous administration has been a disaster and needs to be abolished!

The batts are not of the lead acid type, they are made with non-recyclable rare Earth metals.

"..... why should I as a tax payer subsidize private schooling ANYWHERE ...."

Answer - the same reason "....why should I as a tax payer subsidize schooling ANYWHERE..."

Better education at a lower cost. The tax payer via the Federal Gov't by providing low interest tax payer guarranteed loans, grants and scholarships currently "subsidizes" every University private or public in the Country except one that I am aware of.

Students in effect get a voucher for private/public University so why not for all education? Or is it that only the elites who can go to private/public University get vouchers????

Why should a parent be forced to send their child to a school that fails in teaching by every measure? Are we forced to shop at a failing store, are we forced to work for a failing business?

Forcing to results in a failing school, failing store and failing business becasue there is little reason to not fail.

Why shouldn't the dollar start with the child who brings it to the school of their parent's choice forcing the school to meet that childs needs?

Why is it better to have the dollar start with the school board, then the admin, then the bus driver, then the janitor, then the cafeteria worker, then the principal, then the teacher and then the child? Putting the child last is best???

[sailsmen]

Yeah, but they're heavy so they'll be hidden in scrap metal of all sorts and then eventually lead to groundwater pollution. Damn greenies...

Same thing happened when they mandated MTBE in gasoline to clean the air, they didn't think about the fact that it's not biodegradeable and gets spilled on the ground at gas stations all over the country, washing into the groundwater all over the country.

But they are smarter than everybody else and therefore have the right to tell us what to do!

Only stupid people think smart people know every thing.

[kernie]

Doesn't take much of a google search to find the truth, this much like the rest of the results, and need i say, opposite of what those who refuse to turn the channel are hearing. Interesting that when the batteries are deemed no longer good enough to power a car they still hold a 75% {ish} of their charge. With home solar and wind systems a viable alternative in the future i would think these batteries will have a place in alot of folks basements. A truly dead car battery may be a long ways down the road.

Not that i'm sold on electric cars...


This post, part of a series we're running all about electric cars (http://planetgreen.discovery.com/feature/electric-cars), was written by Kristen Hall-Geisler from HowStuffWorks.com.
Happily, the answer is yes -- the batteries that power electric cars (and hybrids, for that matter) can be recycled. For decades, the few electric vehicles that were on the road were powered by lead-acid batteries. The latest models, with their lighter weight and longer range, use lithium-ion batteries (http://planetgreen.discovery.com/tech-transport/how-green-are-automotive-lithium-ion-batteries.html), just like laptops and cell phones. In either case, the batteries that power electric cars can be recycled.
In the case of the older-technology lead-acid batteries (http://www.lead-battery-recycling.com/lead-battery-recycling.html), 96 percent of the materials in the battery -- including the nasty lead -- is recovered. To compare, only 38 percent of the material in glass bottles is recovered in the recycling process. They can also be recharged and reused before being recycled. Hybrid cars (http://www.hybridcars.com/environment/birth-industry-recycle-lithium-auto-batteries-26047.html) currently on the road, like the Toyota Prius, use nickel metal hydride batteries, which can be dismantled and recycled in much the same way.
When the battery packs in a lithium-ion-powered vehicle are deemed too worn out for driving, they still have up to 80 percent of their charge left. So before they ever get to a recycling center, these batteries are used to prop up the grid, especially alongside energy sources that may not be quite as steady, like wind or solar power (http://planetgreen.discovery.com/tech-transport/will-solar-electric-cars-ever-become-affordable.html). The batteries can store power to help the flow of electricity stay on an even keel rather than ebb and flow with the weather.
Since lithium-ion battery-powered cars are just now coming to the mass market, the recycling centers that can reclaim their components are still in their infancy, too. Toxco (http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/23215/), a big lead-acid battery recycler, is set to open the first lithium-ion battery recycling plant in the U.S. Companies like Tesla Motors, which has had lithium-powered electric sports cars on the road for a couple of years now, already sends its spent batteries to Toxco's current facilities for recycling.
When lithium-ion batteries reach a recycling (http://planetgreen.discovery.com/go-green/recycling/) plant, there are two ways to pulverize them. If they are completely without a charge, they're simply shredded so that the metal components, like copper and steel, can be easily sorted out. If the batteries could still possibly have a charge, though, they're frozen in liquid nitrogen and smashed to frozen bits (cool!). The liquid nitrogen is so cold, the batteries can't react, so the smashing is safe. And probably fun. Then the metals are separated out for reuse.

[Paul T. Casey]

Buzz killer.

[Master]

NiCds are the real baddies here, and virtually no one uses them anymore. There are your nasty metals - cadmium, in particular (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_poisoning). Sadly, it and other rare earth metals are as common as dirt in computer and electronic components. And make no mistake: Thay are BAD for the environment. That's why we keep sending our junk electronics to thrid world countries. Can't have that stuff in North American soil!
Lithium (as in Lithium Polymer) batteries is a very environmentally safe element and is recoverable.

[sailsmen]

Try bringing an electric car to a recycler, odds are they will not accept it. This is one of the main reasons some were only leased by the MFG. The MFG recognized they cannot be recycled and did not want the pollution from them coming back to them.
3-1-11 - http://automotivediscovery.com/future-recycling-of-electric-vehicle-batteries-significant-by-2016/924883/
2-14-09 -
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=lithium-ion-batteries-hybrid-electric-vehicle-recycling

Recycle at what cost? The cost exceeds the value it is not being recycled. Like paying to have plastic recycled.

[duhtroll]

When you figure out geography, you'll have the answer to that question of vouchers following the kids.

Only in large cities are kids in the range of more than a couple schools. That voucher you mention doesn't bus them there or pay for the transportation costs. It it a tuition voucher. Parents will be responsible for getting their kids to school every day, so good luck with that.

Also, around here and in many other places that tuition voucher wouldn't make much of a dent in private school tuition were parents to send their kids there. The tuition is too high. There are no gubmint free and reduced lunches in private schools either, at least here.

Private schools generally don't want poor students there, either. Since they are not beholden to anyone for their tuition costs, there is nothing stopping them from raising the price of tuition for their school by the same cost as the voucher.

Then all of the vouchers for poor kids become essentially useless, while private school kids can apply for them (since they too are opting out of the public schools -- money follows the kid, right?) and pay part of their tuition - the part that was just raised, using taxpayer funded vouchers.

Vouchers fail, AND they subsidize private schools with taxpayer money.

This all says nothing of the absolute chaos that would take place if people could switch schools every other week. Schools need to know what students they will be needing to serve in enough time to be able to have staff, facilities and other resources for them.

We haven't even scratched the surface of taxpayers funding religion when they apply public money to religiously-affiliated schools, but that is another huge issue. By making vouchers the law of the land and taking public money and giving it to a religious organizations, the local government is in fact establishing religion, which is unconstitutional.



The batts are not of the lead acid type, they are made with non-recyclable rare Earth metals.

"..... why should I as a tax payer subsidize private schooling ANYWHERE ...."

Answer - the same reason "....why should I as a tax payer subsidize schooling ANYWHERE..."

Better education at a lower cost. The tax payer via the Federal Gov't by providing low interest tax payer guarranteed loans, grants and scholarships currently "subsidizes" every University private or public in the Country except one that I am aware of.

Students in effect get a voucher for private/public University so why not for all education? Or is it that only the elites who can go to private/public University get vouchers????

Why should a parent be forced to send their child to a school that fails in teaching by every measure? Are we forced to shop at a failing store, are we forced to work for a failing business?

Forcing to results in a failing school, failing store and failing business becasue there is little reason to not fail.

Why shouldn't the dollar start with the child who brings it to the school of their parent's choice forcing the school to meet that childs needs?

Why is it better to have the dollar start with the school board, then the admin, then the bus driver, then the janitor, then the cafeteria worker, then the principal, then the teacher and then the child? Putting the child last is best???

[Red91LX]

Assuming our Friendly Green Government gets it's way, and we all start buying electric cars, where will all the "extra" electric power needed to constantly recharge the batteries come from?

[FordNut]

Assuming our Friendly Green Government gets it's way, and we all start buying electric cars, where will all the "extra" electric power needed to constantly recharge the batteries come from?

Good question. Our current administration is pro-green and anti-nuclear. They throw money away on solar companies that go belly-up, but refuse to follow through with loan guarantees to nuclear companies. We will soon be buying enriched uranium for nuclear power plant fuel from foreign companies since the administration won't help with funding on the US centrifuge program. The only thing we have that is US-owned is the antiquated, inefficient gas diffusion plant that will probably be shut down this year.

Funny, the Iranians can put a centrifuge plant into operation even with everybody trying to stop them, but the US can't/won't do it themselves. It'll be a shame for Iran to be more advanced in their nuclear ambitions than America.

BTW, this rant is based on recent layoffs from USEC (see ticker USU)

[Vortex]

On this issue I tend to agree with the above, I think subsidies for electric cars are a joke; nobody wants them. I have no real problem with hybrids or those new ones that have a battery "boost" system but the idea of driving an oversized golf cart just isnt appealing to most Americans. Battery technology just isnt there. Frankly, you can get a nice small car with an efficient engine that can get over 40 mph and I think that is a much more reasonable way to go. As for support for public education, we should have the best public schools in the world but I think our main problems are a combination of lack of funding and the cultural acceptance of laziness.

[sailsmen]

If only it were a funding problem -
"Funding for K–12 schools

According to a 2005 report from the OECD, the United States is tied for first place with Switzerland when it comes to annual spending per student on its public schools, with each of those two countries spending more than $11,000 (in U.S. currency).[101] However, the United States is ranked 37th in the world in education spending as a percentage of gross domestic product. All but seven of the leading countries are in the third world; ranked high because of a low GDP.[102] U.S. public schools lag behind the schools of other developed countries in the areas of reading, math, and science.[103]

According to a 2007 article in The Washington Post, the Washington D.C. public school district spends $12,979 per student per year. This is the third highest level of funding per student out of the 100 biggest school districts in the U.S. According to the article, however, these schools are ranked last in the amount of funding spent on teachers and instruction, and first on the amount spent on administration. The school district has produced outcomes that are lower than the national average. In reading and math, the district's students score the lowest among 11 major school districts – even when poor children are compared with other poor children. 33% of poor fourth graders in the U.S. lack basic skills in math, but in Washington D.C., it's 62%.[104] In 2004, the U.S. Congress set up a voucher program for low income minority students in Washington D.C. to attend private schools. The vouchers were $7,500 per student per year. The parents said their children were receiving a much better education from the private schools. In 2007, Washington D.C. non-voting delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton said she wanted the voucher program to be eliminated, and that the public schools needed more money.[105] Secretary of Education Arne Duncan supports retaining vouchers for the district only, as do some DC parent groups.[106][107]

According to a 2006 study by the Goldwater Institute, Arizona's public schools spend 50% more per student than Arizona's private schools. The study also says that while teachers constitute 72% of the employees at private schools, they make up less than half of the staff at public schools. According to the study, if Arizona's public schools wanted to be like private schools, they would have to hire approximately 25,000 more teachers, and eliminate 21,210 administration employees.[108]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_United_States

[Bluerauder]

According to a 2007 article in The Washington Post, the Washington D.C. public school district spends $12,979 per student per year.

Its closer to $20,000 now and the results are the same.

[sailsmen]

Obviously it is not a funding problem?

[71cyclone]

Its closer to $20,000 now and the results are the same.
DITTO:bigcry: // My brother spends 17.000 per anum to send my niece [his daughter ] to St Johns High School in the District. He is a College park residence.

[Fosters]

If the bailouts didn't happen the complaints would be very loud, rightfully so.

Danged if ya do, danged if you don't.

If the bailouts didn't happen, the only complaints would be from the towing industry running out of broken down cars to pull from the side of the road.

GM's competitors would be cheering and expanding left and right trying to capture as much as they can out of GM's marketshare IF it would have gotten to them closing doors (albeit them closing was highly unlikely anyway, like all of the airlines that went thru bankruptcies).

[kernie]

If the bailouts didn't happen, the only complaints would be from the towing industry running out of broken down cars to pull from the side of the road.

GM's competitors would be cheering and expanding left and right trying to capture as much as they can out of GM's marketshare IF it would have gotten to them closing doors (albeit them closing was highly unlikely anyway, like all of the airlines that went thru bankruptcies).

I say the screaming from the right would have been ten times louder had there been no bailout, fox would have taken it downtown, no doubt about it.

[sailsmen]

WSJ 12-12-08
"Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe," Mr. Chu, who directs the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California, said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal in September.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122904040307499791.html
That's how you become Energy Sceretary BRA!. Make Energy unaffordable and the problem is solved.

Europe average Gasoline prices ~$8.00.

Man you ain't seen nothing yet.

[sailsmen]

If the bailouts didn't happen, the only complaints would be from the towing industry running out of broken down cars to pull from the side of the road.

GM's competitors would be cheering and expanding left and right trying to capture as much as they can out of GM's marketshare IF it would have gotten to them closing doors (albeit them closing was highly unlikely anyway, like all of the airlines that went thru bankruptcies).

DUUHHHHHHH. You don't understand economics. When ever a company goes bust - All those customers of GM would have evaporated? All those GM employees would not have been hired by anyonelse?

Why only GM employees were buying GM's cars. GM was paying their employees in cars.

So the only answer was to Nationalize GM and give 20% to a Union?

Ford was just plain stupid being run by incompetents. Now they get to compete with the largest corporation in the World who prints money and has a captive customer who is forced to give them money! The USA Federal Gov't.

Back to the USSR!

[duhtroll]

I agree - look what we are spending it on. Top quality athletic facilities and computer labs. Heck, kids in my school have basically free laptops issued by the school ($50 rental per year for a brand new macbook).

Unfortunately kids in this country treat their computers and other tech as toys, not tools. They don't feel lucky to have it - they see it as an entitlement.

I ask every foreign exchange student the same question at the end of their year here. "What is the greatest difference in schooling between the US and your home country?"

The answer is always the same, and it has little to do with the amount of money spent on education. Anyone wanna guess?


Its closer to $20,000 now and the results are the same.