Dtr?? Wot??

[MarauderMark]

I keep seeing these in threads.i may be the only one on this site that does not know what they mean.So can some one explian these's to me ?? :confused: :bigcry: :stupid: :rolleyes: :shake:

[dok]

I keep seeing these in threads.i may be the only one on this site that does not know what they mean.So can some one explian these's to me ?? :confused: :bigcry: :stupid: :rolleyes: :shake:

DTR = Dark Toreador Red

WOT = Wide Open Throttle

[MarauderMark]

Thank you doc i appreciate it..

[MapleLeafMerc]

Logan, we need an acronym library, ASAP :)

[woaface]

Thank you doc i appreciate it..
If I ever get the time, I'ma gonna make a glossary of MM.net terms.

BTW, last one I can't figure out...Stall. What the hell is a stall for/do? There was a post on this when I joined...but uh...I was an idiot then. (As opposed to being half an idiot now:D )

[Petrograde]

BTW, last one I can't figure out...Stall. What the hell is a stall for/do?

Hey Woa,... check this out (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/torque-converter.htm)

..or click here! (http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/index.shtml)

These links may or may not answer your question. Actually,.. I have to admit,.. I'm not entirely sure myself. I know that a high stall will snap your neck back pretty hard. I look forward to an actual answer myself.

Tom

[woaface]

Hey Woa,... check this out (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/torque-converter.htm)

..or click here! (http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/index.shtml)

These links may or may not answer your question. Actually,.. I have to admit,.. I'm not entirely sure myself. I know that a high stall will snap your neck back pretty hard. I look forward to an actual answer myself.

Tom
Thanks man, I think I'm right about where you are now:D

[FordNut]

Let me give it a shot. Although my explanation may be somewhat "technically" inaccurate, you will get the idea.

The stall speed is essentially the speed (rpm) at which it would stall the engine if you put the car in gear, hold the brakes so the car can't move, and gradually increase engine speed until it stalls. When moving instead of holding the brake, an analogy is like slipping the clutch on a manual tranny equipped car. Below the stall speed, you have your foot on the clutch, partially allowing it to grip. At the stall speed, you let the clutch out all the way. So the "neck-snapping" acceleration with a high stall speed converter is due to the fact that the torque converter stops this "slipping" at a higher engine speed, which is where the engine is making more power. Kind of like dumping the clutch at 1500 rpm vs dumping the clutch at 3000 rpm in a manual equipped car. This is all done with fluid and impellers inside the converter instead of mechanical devices like clutches and pressure plates.

The torque converter's fluid coupling provides for some torque multiplication from the input to output. There is always some slippage with the fluid coupling unlike the mechanical clutch. Hence the introduction of a clutch inside the torque converter. This allows the torque converter input and output mechanisms to be actually locked instead of having the slipping. The clutch is a relatively new addition to the torque converter, and I can't explain its function very well, except that it is electrically activated and provides a true direct link between the input and output. The positive part of the clutch is it eliminates the slipping and provides a direct link from input to output, eliminating the loss (waste) of energy in the fluid. The negative is the loss of torque multiplication. So the clutch is programmed to only lock up in low torque demand situations like cruising or light acceleration, and unlock in high acceleration conditions.

Hope this helps. Any other members feel free to correct me or add information as needed.

[woaface]

Yeah, I'll read that a couple times and understand it. Thanks, that's what I was looking for:up:

[TripleTransAm]

Nice explanation, FordNut.

I'll just add that the torque multiplication itself comes about because there is an extra component in a torque converter that differentiates it from a simple fluid coupling. It's called a Stator. When the torque converter is 'stalling' (ie. output speed does not match input), the stator can whip the fluid harder onto the output side. This multiplies torque, but only while the torque converter is slipping. When both output and input sides are closely matched, the stator just freewheels, not multiplying torque at all. That's why it doesn't hurt at all to apply a physical link between the input and output sides at this point in time (ie. the torque converter clutch). So there is no negative aspect of having a torque converter clutch except for the possible rough engagement (it IS a friction surface after all).

The term 'stall' itself can be confusing, since many people associate the term with the engine 'dying'. Those familiar with aircraft and flying will understand the true usage of the term in this application... in an airplane, the stall speed is the minimum air speed under which the plane ceases to provide lift (I hope I'm not messing this up, I'm no pilot, although my brother is). So it is with the torque converter: below a certain RPM, there is little output from the fluid coupling.

One last thing: the pre-torque-converter units (pre 1965 for GM? Earlier for others?) were simply called fluid couplings. Apparently they were really sluggish in operation (hence the term slushbox, I think)... can any of the older members comment on this? Wasn't the Torqueflite one of the first trannies with a 3 element torque converter, in the early 60s? What was it like to drive the earlier units? I'm owed a ride in a co-worker's 1958 Pontiac Parisienne and I'm wondering what to expect...

[David JP]

I keep seeing these in threads.i may be the only one on this site that does not know what they mean.So can some one explian these's to me ?? :confused: :bigcry: :stupid: :rolleyes: :shake:
I knew what WOT meant, but was afraid to ask what DTR was.
I kept seeing it, and got paranoid that my car was not equipped with it!!!
Thankfully, it's just a color.

[MarauderMark]

LOL thats what i thought but i did'nt want to admit it ..glad you said it first ..Thanx..

[David JP]

Let me give it a shot. Although my explanation may be somewhat "technically" inaccurate, you will get the idea.

The stall speed is essentially the speed (rpm) at which it would stall the engine if you put the car in gear, hold the brakes so the car can't move, and gradually increase engine speed until it stalls. When moving instead of holding the brake, an analogy is like slipping the clutch on a manual tranny equipped car. Below the stall speed, you have your foot on the clutch, partially allowing it to grip. At the stall speed, you let the clutch out all the way. So the "neck-snapping" acceleration with a high stall speed converter is due to the fact that the torque converter stops this "slipping" at a higher engine speed, which is where the engine is making more power. Kind of like dumping the clutch at 1500 rpm vs dumping the clutch at 3000 rpm in a manual equipped car. This is all done with fluid and impellers inside the converter instead of mechanical devices like clutches and pressure plates.
.
The torque converter's fluid coupling provides for some torque multiplication from the input to output. There is always some slippage with the fluid coupling unlike the mechanical clutch. Hence the introduction of a clutch inside the torque converter. This allows the torque converter input and output mechanisms to be actually locked instead of having the slipping. The clutch is a relatively new addition to the torque converter, and I can't explain its function very well, except that it is electrically activated and provides a true direct link between the input and output. The positive part of the clutch is it eliminates the slipping and provides a direct link from input to output, eliminating the loss (waste) of energy in the fluid. The negative is the loss of torque multiplication. So the clutch is programmed to only lock up in low torque demand situations like cruising or light acceleration, and unlock in high acceleration conditions.

Hope this helps. Any other members feel free to correct me or add information as needed.
Fordnut, I think I understand this now.
When I go to WOT, the car really kicks in, but there seems to be stages
in acceleration. The pedal is fully depressed and zoom, then nothing, then it
it picks up again. Is that "stall, slipping"? And is that what the torque converter does,
give you uninterupted accelartion? Thanx.

[Agent M79]

Thankfully, it's just a color.
I, sir, am wounded.

[David JP]

I, sir, am wounded.
No knock intended. We are all brothers and sisters here,
regardless of color. Amen.

[FordNut]

Fordnut, I think I understand this now.
When I go to WOT, the car really kicks in, but there seems to be stages
in acceleration. The pedal is fully depressed and zoom, then nothing, then it
it picks up again. Is that "stall, slipping"? And is that what the torque converter does,
give you uninterupted accelartion? Thanx.

I believe what you're feeling is the stages of downshift with torque converter clutch unlocked, then the clutch locks, then it shifts again with clutch unlocked, etc. With it unlocked, it feels like it's slipping and it really is to some degree but it has the fluid coupling. With it locked, it feels firm. But yes, the intent is to give an apparent uninterrupted acceleration.

The transmission's internal electronic controls do the actual locking/unlocking based on commands from the PCM, which can be programmed for various shifting traits such as shift point RPM, firmness of shifting, locking of converter clutch, etc. So the same hardware can have a firm, performance feel or a soft, mushy, luxury feel based on the programming.

But I don't think you would normally refer to that as "stall". Stall is usually associated with take-off and would always involve the clutch being unlocked. I suppose it could be thought of as the RPM where the fluid coupling is firm enough that the engine speed can not increase any higher without the drivetrain speed increasing. Does that make sense? Maybe I'm starting to confuse myself now. What day is this? I see stars. Who am I? Babble Babble