ZL1 Camaro...OOPS!

[Joe Walsh]

Now, not only do you get a top-of-the-line Camaro that is down 70 HP to the new Shelby....

You get an "unspecified" recall for your mullet magnet!

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120307/CARNEWS/120309867?utm_source=DailyDriv e20120308&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=missedarticle4&utm_content=20120307-Chevrolet_Camaro_ZL1_deliverie s_halted&utm_campaign=awdailydrive

[Juice]

k. .

[DOOM]

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[CBT]

Now, not only do you get a top-of-the-line Camaro that is down 70 HP to the new Shelby....

You get an "unspecified" recall for your mullet magnet!

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120307/CARNEWS/120309867?utm_source=DailyDriv e20120308&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=missedarticle4&utm_content=20120307-Chevrolet_Camaro_ZL1_deliverie s_halted&utm_campaign=awdailydrive

Don't bother me none, I'm 6' 1" and mullet-proof.

[DOOM]

Meybe theyre putting on a bigger blower! :dunno:

[Fosters]

Meybe theyre putting on a bigger blower! :dunno:

They realized they forgot to add some tow hook/points, so they can be safely tied to the flatbed they're bound to spend most of their time on...

I don't miss my old mullet mobile. 4 alternators, 1 transmission, 1 timing cover, 1 rear end, 1 water pump, both window motors, 1 door actuator, 1 exhaust midpipe lost on the street. All by 70k miles. Tranny went at 15k miles...

[guspech750]

More Government Motors BS.

You'd think that one of their flagship cars that they would get it right the first time.


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[jabird56]

I found out what the issue is.

DARN who put these VOLT motors in these Camaros?

[Siege]

They ran out of stick on wheel weights for the calipers.

[MrBluGruv]

More Government Motors BS.

You'd think that one of their flagship cars that they would get it right the first time.

GM sucks right? Not like Ford, I mean it's not like they went and stopped using tried and true Tremec transmissions in favor of Getrags in the new Mustangs, only to have terrible linkage failure in a significant number of cars...

http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2011/08/07/nhtsa-opens-investigation-into-the-2011-mustangs-transmission-problems/


Oh.... :(


Well hey, at least they win out by making sure they checked the cars, just like GM, before they sent them to the public...



...wait....


...oh my. :(

[PonyUP]

GM sucks right? Not like Ford, I mean it's not like they went and stopped using tried and true Tremec transmissions in favor of Getrags in the new Mustangs, only to have terrible linkage failure in a significant number of cars...

http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2011/08/07/nhtsa-opens-investigation-into-the-2011-mustangs-transmission-problems/


Oh.... :(


Well hey, at least they win out by making sure they checked the cars, just like GM, before they sent them to the public...



...wait....


...oh my. :(

Well at least GM made sure to make sure their two door sport car pushing those horses didn't weigh close to what a Marauder weighs, oh wait


Pony seal of Approval

[MOTOWN]

Ive never understood how some get caught up over this brand or that brand b.s. its all cars guys like it or not!

[MrBluGruv]

Well at least GM made sure to make sure their two door sport car pushing those horses didn't weigh close to what a Marauder weighs, oh wait


Pony seal of Approval

Guess it's just me, but I think I'd prefer a car that's 300lbs heavier and drives than a 3800lbs car without a working transmission. :eek:


EDIT: But why worry about driving the car when we can armchair-race all day?

SECOND EDIT: And did you really just argue that a GT500 is better because it still only weighs nearly two tons instead of just over? I've got news for you, BOTH the Ford and Chevy two-doors are pigs now, get over it.

[kernie]

Guess it's just me, but I think I'd prefer a car that's 300lbs heavier and drives than a 3800lbs car without a working transmission. :eek:


EDIT: But why worry about driving the car when we can armchair-race all day?

SECOND EDIT: And did you really just argue that a GT500 is better because it still only weighs nearly two tons instead of just over? I've got news for you, BOTH the Ford and Chevy two-doors are pigs now, get over it.


GM sucks right? Not like Ford, I mean it's not like they went and stopped using tried and true Tremec transmissions in favor of Getrags in the new Mustangs, only to have terrible linkage failure in a significant number of cars...

http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2011/08/07/nhtsa-opens-investigation-into-the-2011-mustangs-transmission-problems/


Oh.... :(


Well hey, at least they win out by making sure they checked the cars, just like GM, before they sent them to the public...



...wait....


...oh my. :(


Sometimes it's best just to move on.

















Oh, BTW, Camaro's suck.

:D

[PonyUP]

Guess it's just me, but I think I'd prefer a car that's 300lbs heavier and drives than a 3800lbs car without a working transmission. :eek:


EDIT: But why worry about driving the car when we can armchair-race all day?

SECOND EDIT: And did you really just argue that a GT500 is better because it still only weighs nearly two tons instead of just over? I've got news for you, BOTH the Ford and Chevy two-doors are pigs now, get over it.

Wow, your post sure sounds angry, wasn't trying to start anything other than I think the camaro would gain if they were able to cut some of the weight. I was disappointed when the original SS came out at over 4000lbs.
That's just my opinion

I get it, you dumped your Marauder for a Camaro, someone bashed on the Camaro and you're defending your ride, I respect that.

You can drive your camaro until the wheels fall off and I hope you enjoy it. I'll enjoy my Mustang and Marauder every bit as much.




Pony seal of Approval

[PonyUP]

Oh and by the way, my transmission works just fine


Pony seal of Approval

[MrBluGruv]

Wow, your post sure sounds angry, wasn't trying to start anything other than I think the camaro would gain if they were able to cut some of the weight. I was disappointed when the original SS came out at over 4000lbs.
That's just my opinion

I get it, you dumped your Marauder for a Camaro, someone bashed on the Camaro and you're defending your ride, I respect that.

You can drive your camaro until the wheels fall off and I hope you enjoy it. I'll enjoy my Mustang and Marauder every bit as much.




Pony seal of Approval

Angry? Hardly. Disappointed is a better word.

To think we have a collective of car enthusiasts that, by all counts, should have YEARS of experience, and yet this board is still plagued by petty brand bashing and armchair racing. Yep, disappointment is the word.

Like I said, if you think that the GT500 is the better car because even though it's still stupid heavy, it's still not quite as heavy as the Camaro, you've got some poor perspective in auto performance. Hell, the GT500 adds more weight over the standard GT than the ZL1 adds over the standard SS.

And I own a 4th gen Camaro, not a 5th gen. The 5th gen means nothing to me compared to the 4th gens, if you're trying to find some sort of personal angle on this...

[PonyUP]

Angry? Hardly. Disappointed is a better word.

To think we have a collective of car enthusiasts that, by all counts, should have YEARS of experience, and yet this board is still plagued by petty brand bashing and armchair racing. Yep, disappointment is the word.

Like I said, if you think that the GT500 is the better car because even though it's still stupid heavy, it's still not quite as heavy as the Camaro, you've got some poor perspective in auto performance. Hell, the GT500 adds more weight over the standard GT than the ZL1 adds over the standard SS.

And I own a 4th gen Camaro, not a 5th gen. The 5th gen means nothing to me compared to the 4th gens, if you're trying to find some sort of personal angle on this...

Not trying to add a personal angle, you think I have a poor perspective in auto performance, that's your right.

I happen to think my perspective is fine and I have certainly been happy with my automotive choices.

With that, I will bid you good day


Pony seal of Approval

[MrBluGruv]

Not trying to add a personal angle, you think I have a poor perspective in auto performance, that's your right.

I happen to think my perspective is fine and I have certainly been happy with my automotive choices.

With that, I will bid you good day


Pony seal of Approval

yep, cause bringing up a car's curb weight is totally relevant to a manufacturer's quality assurance program. Great perspective. :rolleyes:

[PonyUP]

yep, cause bringing up a car's curb weight is totally relevant to a manufacturer's quality assurance program. Great perspective. :rolleyes:

Fine, I tried to be nice, but obviously you feel intent on calling me stupid.

So you say you hate the armchair racing, yet you were the one to launch the defense of the Camaro on a Mercury Site, seems to me your happy to roll that arm chair up to the tree and race.

If you hate Fords so much, why the hell are you still a member here? If you seem to dislike the collective so much, then why don't you go hang out on the Camaro forums.

Don't know why you felt the need to make this personal, but calling be stupid (oh I know you didn't come out and say it, but you certainly inferred it) was completely uncalled for

Grow up kid. With that I'm done. Like I've said too many times the ignore option is ignored, so I will go ahead and put that in place, because I certainly have no more time for someone that wants to make personal attacks to defend their car.


Pony seal of Approval

[TAKEDOWN]

Long live the MARAUDER!!!

[MrBluGruv]

Fine, I tried to be nice, but obviously you feel intent on calling me stupid.

So you say you hate the armchair racing, yet you were the one to launch the defense of the Camaro on a Mercury Site, seems to me your happy to roll that arm chair up to the tree and race.

If you hate Fords so much, why the hell are you still a member here? If you seem to dislike the collective so much, then why don't you go hang out on the Camaro forums.

Don't know why you felt the need to make this personal, but calling be stupid (oh I know you didn't come out and say it, but you certainly inferred it) was completely uncalled for

Grow up kid. With that I'm done. Like I've said too many times the ignore option is ignored, so I will go ahead and put that in place, because I certainly have no more time for someone that wants to make personal attacks to defend their car.


Pony seal of Approval

No armchair racing involved in mentioning that the quality assurance program did it's job. GM chose to make sure the cars got a good look-over before going to the public, when the implied competitor, Ford, didn't, and they released MANY fail-prone Getrag transmissions. It's just fact. If these Camaros come back later after public release riddled with problems of their own, I'll have nothing to argue.

If I had the choice between a new Camaro and a new Mustang, at the same price point, I'd pick the Mustang hands-down (given I could be confident the transmission wouldn't have problems), and I could give you logical reasons too, not just "'cause I'm a Ford guy".

I'm just saying, some of you guys are SOOO blind with Ford lust that you are clenching at straws just to find some reason to hate on Chevy (or whatever the target of the day is). Hardly think it's stupid, just closed-minded, especially since you ought to be better than that.

There is one whole HELL of a lot more to a car's performance story than the peak power and torque numbers and curb weight on paper though, since you brought the issue up. Most of that story is told on the street, and if I'm not mistaken (correct me if I'm wrong), neither of these vehicles is on the street yet, just in web-forums where people bash based on nothing but paper statistics...

[Joe Walsh]

I've owned GM vehicles and I give credit where credit is due.
I bought a '96 Blazer because the Ford Explorer was a weak engined POS.
Got 225,000 miles out of the Blazer.
The new Corvettes are sweet rides....just too many old farts putting around in them!
But...I think that the new gen Camaro is F-U-G-G-LY!
The interior is hideous!
The outside does not look good either.

Does FORD make mistakes....? Sure!
Did FORD take any government bailout money....?....NO!
Do I relish reading about other maufacturers like Toyota, Honda and Chevy producing poor quality garbage....?..... Heck ya!!

[MrBluGruv]

But...I think that the new gen Camaro is F-U-G-G-LY!
The interior is hideous!
The outside does not look good either.

I've been back and forth on the interior myself, although I've grown to like it as time has gone on. There are one or two REALLY badass styling cues (the quad-pod gauge cluster in front of the shifter), but then it goes and does something obnoxious (like the absolutely garish dash cluster with the tach and speedometer).

Honestly though, I think what makes me like it more as time goes on, is that it seems like the other manufacturers are a little bland; well, not Mustang so much, maybe, but mostly Dodge. The Challenger interior looks so bland to me, like it's a stamp-pressed Dodge interior that they put into a Challenger this time instead of a Ram truck...

[dohc324ci]

I like muscle of all makes heck even Japanese, Baverian, and Italian ones too. Actually when I go to the track there are lots more GM muscle 3-1. Just sayin. The new Camaro I like it the ZL1 I like even better. The Dodge 392 chalkenger is IMO the baddest modern looking muscle car. It's a big body rear drive beast that will shread the rears effortlessly what not to like of this muscle car era. Enjoy it CAFE standards will make turbo electric light body the new muscle. Btw, the Only problem with a Mustang there lots of them.

[Fosters]

No armchair racing involved in mentioning that the quality assurance program did it's job. GM chose to make sure the cars got a good look-over before going to the public, when the implied competitor, Ford, didn't, and they released MANY fail-prone Getrag transmissions. It's just fact. If these Camaros come back later after public release riddled with problems of their own, I'll have nothing to argue.

If I had the choice between a new Camaro and a new Mustang, at the same price point, I'd pick the Mustang hands-down (given I could be confident the transmission wouldn't have problems), and I could give you logical reasons too, not just "'cause I'm a Ford guy".

I'm just saying, some of you guys are SOOO blind with Ford lust that you are clenching at straws just to find some reason to hate on Chevy (or whatever the target of the day is). Hardly think it's stupid, just closed-minded, especially since you ought to be better than that.

There is one whole HELL of a lot more to a car's performance story than the peak power and torque numbers and curb weight on paper though, since you brought the issue up. Most of that story is told on the street, and if I'm not mistaken (correct me if I'm wrong), neither of these vehicles is on the street yet, just in web-forums where people bash based on nothing but paper statistics...

Clenching at straws... or past personal experience. I hope yours is better, otherwise, do yourself a favor and get a bus pass for a backup now. Or make friends with someone with a truck and trailer.

I've never put the camaro thru the abuse my mustangs have seen, and it still left me stranded a few times, and had major repairs needed... Wake me up when you can buy a camaro that can handle a pair of slicks at the track without dumping 2 grand on a rear end.

At least they made it harder to see out of, you won't see the parts falling off the pile. If you're lucky like me, and you lose a vital exhaust piece, at 20k miles, you'll at least hear it...

Feel free to troll the camaro forums about how great they are, at least people there will care to hear your banter.

BTW, check out these google searches:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=2010+camaro+recall&oq=2010+camaro+recall&aq=f&aqi=g3&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=98886l99273l0l99560l2l2 l0l0l0l0l88l169l2l2l0&gs_l=serp.3..0l3.98886l99273l0 l99560l2l2l0l0l0l0l88l169l2l2l 0.frgbld&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf .osb&fp=95e6f5d098e4da22&biw=1920&bih=995

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=2010+mustang+recall&oq=2010+mustang+recall&aq=f&aqi=g1g-b3&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=4025l6333l0l6476l17l12l 0l5l5l0l119l902l11.1l17l0&gs_l=serp.3..0j0i8l3.4025l6333 l0l6476l17l12l0l5l5l0l119l902l 11j1l17l0.frgbld&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf .osb&fp=95e6f5d098e4da22&biw=1920&bih=995

:D

[CBT]

Clenching at straws... or past personal experience. I hope yours is better, otherwise, do yourself a favor and get a bus pass for a backup now. Or make friends with someone with a truck and trailer.

I've never put the camaro thru the abuse my mustangs have seen, and it still left me stranded a few times, and had major repairs needed... Wake me up when you can buy a camaro that can handle a pair of slicks at the track without dumping 2 grand on a rear end.

At least they made it harder to see out of, you won't see the parts falling off the pile. If you're lucky like me, and you lose a vital exhaust piece, at 20k miles, you'll at least hear it...

Feel free to troll the camaro forums about how great they are, at least people there will care to hear your banter.

Ouch! Ouch I say!! :lol:
I'd still flog a new Camaro but I'd never buy one.

[guspech750]

GM sucks right? Not like Ford, I mean it's not like they went and stopped using tried and true Tremec transmissions in favor of Getrags in the new Mustangs, only to have terrible linkage failure in a significant number of cars...

http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2011/08/07/nhtsa-opens-investigation-into-the-2011-mustangs-transmission-problems/


Oh.... :(


Well hey, at least they win out by making sure they checked the cars, just like GM, before they sent them to the public...



...wait....


...oh my. :(

Hmmmm. I never said GM sucks. Apparently you can not read. One would think and expect that one of their flagship cars they would get it right the first time. Especially after all the bailout money and criticism they took on.

It's well known all auto makers are guilty of subpar design or manufacturing of some sort.

So by you assuming I think GM sucks and your cute little Mustang article is a waste of time and lame.

I've owned some GM cars and all three of four were great.



Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[Fourth Horseman]

I know better than post my opinion in a thread like this, so I'll just say that I'll be interested in what GM comes up with the 6th gen Camaro based on the Alpha platform. Should be showing up around 2015 if what I've heard is correct. If they can keep the big V8 and trim the weight it could be a really impressive car.

[Fosters]

I've owned some GM cars and all three of four were great.

:lol:

I'm at 2 for 2 with GM's - both POSs. With Fords, 8 out of 9 were good (04 F150 was a POS). Dodges were 50/50, only owned 2 though (daytona and jeep)

This could be a whole new thread... :D

[guspech750]

:lol:

I'm at 2 for 2 with GM's - both POSs. With Fords, 8 out of 9 were good (04 F150 was a POS). Dodges were 50/50, only owned 2 though (daytona and jeep)

This could be a whole new thread... :D

So far 3 for 3 with Ford and 2 for 2 with our 07 Chrysler Aspen and our 99 Jeep GC Chrysler products.


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[CBT]

So far 3 for 3 with Ford and 2 for 2 with our 07 Chrysler Aspen and our 99 Jeep GC Chrysler products.


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

What's your truck tag?

[CBT]

Man drlr ???

[dohc324ci]

:lol:

I'm at 2 for 2 with GM's - both POSs. With Fords, 8 out of 9 were good (04 F150 was a POS). Dodges were 50/50, only owned 2 though (daytona and jeep)

This could be a whole new thread... :D

I've owned these GM cars:

1985 S-15 Jimmy - lots o problems trans/motor 2.8LV6 lol
2000 GMC Jimmy SLE - very good build quality 4.3V6 solid motor good little SUV
1999 Pontiac Grand Am SE2 - fun, quick, handled well for a fwd car solid motor 3.4L V6
2003 Chevy Suburban LT - Vortec 6.0 75k no major problems

3 for 1. What years make and model are you referring to?

[Fosters]

I've owned these GM cars:

1985 S-15 Jimmy - lots o problems trans/motor 2.8LV6 lol
2000 GMC Jimmy SLE - very good build quality 4.3V6 solid motor good little SUV
1999 Pontiac Grand Am SE2 - fun, quick, handled well for a fwd car solid motor 3.4L V6
2003 Chevy Suburban LT - Vortec 6.0 75k no major problems

3 for 1. What years make and model are you referring to?

87 oldsmobile cutlass ciera; 4 cyl that after a while started getting under 10mpg, would overheat in 20 miles during the day (40 miles at night), it had such little power for such a large car that it got defeated by a hill once, the passenger door swang open on left turns, and if you used the horn it stayed on until you disconnected the battery... I drove this thing from 100k to 110k.

98 camaro, bought new, went thru 4 alternators, tranny went bad at 15k miles, exhaust midpipe fell off at 20k, one timing cover, one rear end, the hatch wouldn't align itself anymore for no reason (car was never in any accidents), the dash decided to crack down the middle for no reason, the windows stopped rolling back up, the factory stereo died, it overheated once, starting 65k miles the trans shifter wouldn't let you shift it out of park unless you manhandled it, the door/window seals wouldn't seal up at all - so whenever it went thru the carwash it also gave you a shower inside the car (I used to keep a towel in the car to block the jet from coming in). I wanted to get rid of it as soon as the warranty was over, but my old man liked it so much he ended up keeping it after 40k miles to 72k. I thought about sending it to its death in the grand canyon at a few points, but I got tired of pushing the damn thing.

[guspech750]

What's your truck tag?

TRANNY1


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[Haggis]

TRANNY


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

He asked what was on your license's plate not what you did for a living.

[MrBluGruv]

Clenching at straws... or past personal experience. I hope yours is better, otherwise, do yourself a favor and get a bus pass for a backup now. Or make friends with someone with a truck and trailer.

I've never put the camaro thru the abuse my mustangs have seen, and it still left me stranded a few times, and had major repairs needed... Wake me up when you can buy a camaro that can handle a pair of slicks at the track without dumping 2 grand on a rear end.

At least they made it harder to see out of, you won't see the parts falling off the pile. If you're lucky like me, and you lose a vital exhaust piece, at 20k miles, you'll at least hear it...

Let's see, at the time of sale on my MM, I had had to replace at least 3 alternators, an idler pulley and tensioner, at least 5 serpentine belts, had a busted A/C blend door assembly, had to repair the LCM, had to replace the rear axles (soft axle problem), had to replace the trasmission because it sheared itself to pieces under N/A power, had to replace my rear air suspension, and it really felt like my parking brake didn't work at all. The best part is many people have had similar problems to me. Also, multiple F-150s owned by my father had coil pack problems, and I don't think my mother has owned a single Grand Marquis that had the window motors last the span of her ownership (each one less than 100K miles), not to mention a few speedometers going out on a few of them as well. Does that make every single Ford ever built a hot piece of **** and from here on out Ford must engineer perfection from the first draft point? :shake:


The entire point I've been trying to make on this thread is how RIDICULOUS it is to climb on GMs ass because instead of releasing a product to the public they are afraid might have a defect, they chose to voluntarily call them back to look them over. I just drove the point home by showing one case (really, when you are criticizing GM like this, one case is all you need) where Ford apparently didn't. Doesn't make all Fords ever bad, just shows that this "flaw", that isn't really even a flaw, of GM that you're working so hard to pretend makes them bad, doesn't mean a thing.

I don't think I can make this any simpler.


Some of you folks are just swept up in having to prove Ford is better than GM, it's pathetic.

[bolsen]

IMO nothing sounds better than stock Ford performance. Not Dodge, Chevy, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, none of the usual players. Ferrari's sound really good, but I would take a Ford GT over one any day.

And yes, I'm a Ford Guy just cause...

[na svt]

Every manufacturer has had recalls, even on their "flagship" models.

I just read today that Ford is recalling some Taurus's and then there's this one: http://www.nitrobahn.com/news/2011-2012-ford-mustangs-under-nhtsa-investigation-recall-likely/ (previously mentioned).

Bailouts have nothing to do with quality.

Regardless of manufacturer if its quick, fast, handles well, or looks bad ass it cool in my eyes. Who made it means nothing to me or even if it's the quickest, some of the coolest cars I've driven have not been that quick.

[CBT]

Every manufacturer has had recalls, even on their "flagship" models.

I just read today that Ford is recalling some Taurus's and then there's this one: http://www.nitrobahn.com/news/2011-2012-ford-mustangs-under-nhtsa-investigation-recall-likely/ (previously mentioned).

Bailouts have nothing to do with quality.

Regardless of manufacturer if its quick, fast, handles well, or looks bad ass it cool in my eyes. Who made it means nothing to me or even if it's the quickest, some of the cooles cars I've driven have not been that quick.
Great statement. Heck I had a '73 Gremlin that I'd love to have right now. It was cool, no one was embarassed to be seen in it. Course, I did a little work to it...

[na svt]

Great statement. Heck I had a '73 Gremlin that I'd love to have right now. It was cool, no one was embarassed to be seen in it. Course, I did a little work to it...
My 73 tan, 6 cyl, three on the tree Gremlin was the "bomb." It had as many desert milds as it did road miles...an SUV before SUVs.

[kernie]

Ha! I had a gremlin too! What a mean machine! I had to climb in through the passenger door as rust made the drivers door un-usable.

Ahh the seventies...

:beer:

[Fosters]

Some of you folks are just swept up in having to prove Ford is better than GM, it's pathetic.

And being a GM guy hellbent on proving GM is better than Ford, on a Ford forum, is much more commendable. :o

And magically, you came up with the exact same list of failures on your MM as I did on my camaro. I'm surprised the rear hatch on your marauder didn't start hitting the body too. I hear that's a common one that everyone runs into. :alone:

[MrBluGruv]

And being a GM guy hellbent on proving GM is better than Ford, on a Ford forum, is much more commendable. :o

And magically, you came up with the exact same list of failures on your MM as I did on my camaro. I'm surprised the rear hatch on your marauder didn't start hitting the body too. I hear that's a common one that everyone runs into. :alone:


I'm running out of ways to say this:

I'M NOT TRYING TO PROVE GM IS BETTER THAN FORD, I'M TRYING TO SAY THAT CALLING GM **** FOR ACTUALLY DOING QA IS RIDICULOUS.

Of all the things you could harp on, you choose THAT?

It's like some of you people throw all logic out the window when it comes to car talk.


Trust me, I wish that laundry list of problems didn't happen to my Marauder, if they hadn't I could almost guarantee you I'd still have it today. Unfortunately I had had enough of the constant repair bills, I'm sure the threads I posted asking questions about the many problems I had can be readily found too, I used to panic a lot when I owned my MM because I was always worried MY PARTICULAR ONE was gonna give me grief at a moments notice. That's why I sold in favor of a lower "car payment" on a car that is like new. It just so happened to be the Camaro. So far, the Camaro has been great to me, it fulfills my every need and I enjoy it while it does it. I'm sorry your 98 couldn't give you what you needed out of it, but that's tough cookies man.


Get over the fact that not bashing GM =/= praising them as the all-mighty...

[Fosters]

Not bashing GM is one thing. Being on a Ford forum to defend them in every thread is a whole 'nother deal.

I can just imagine how this non-bashing of Ford would go if I went to one of the LSx forums... :lol:

Let me say this to you in one more way, in which you'll hopefully understand it, so that you stop getting so frustrated at life: You're on a Ford forum. You're defending GM and bashing Fords. It's not going to be all :beer: and :banana2:.

Ignore these threads, let us have our fun, and head on over to the GM forums if you want to bash Ford and bask in the glory of Obama Motors.

[MrBluGruv]

Not bashing GM is one thing. Being on a Ford forum to defend them in every thread is a whole 'nother deal.

If pointing out a fallacy of logic in this one thread is defending GM, well I guess I'm guilty.


I can just imagine how this non-bashing of Ford would go if I went to one of the LSx forums... :lol:

Guess what? They are just as narrow-minded if they wave the "Ford sucks because I like GM" banner.


Let me say this to you in one more way, in which you'll hopefully understand it, so that you stop getting so frustrated at life: You're on a Ford forum. You're defending GM and bashing Fords. It's not going to be all :beer: and :banana2:.

I definitely don't expect people here to go out and buy a GM over anything I say, but I had hopes there was a shred of sensibility in this mess. Guess I have too high of hopes.


Ignore these threads, let us have our fun, and head on over to the GM forums if you want to bash Ford and bask in the glory of Obama Motors.

Good grief, there are like 2, MAYBE 3 GM cars I would like to own in my life, one of which I already do, and because I have owned them, I am a Ford hater now? :rolleyes:


Threads like this make me disappointed to be a car hobbyist...

[guspech750]

Threads like this make me disappointed to be a car hobbyist...

Meh. Get over it and don't take it seriously. This is what communicating is all about. Not everyone is going to see eye to eye. It makes it more interesting than if everyone agreed on everything.


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[MrBluGruv]

This is what communicating is all about. Not everyone is going to see eye to eye. It makes it more interesting than if everyone agreed on everything.

That, I can totally accept.

What I have a hard time swallowing is making defamatory accusations against something, EVEN IF I DON'T CARE MUCH FOR IT EITHER, when they aren't based in logic or at least empirical data.

You could talk all day about how 4th gen F-bodies equipped with the factory 10-bolt rear diffs are known to blow those diffs to bits on the drag strip, and all I could do is agree, because it happens, and it has happened, there are facts to back up that claim and there is no refuting them.

But the essence of this thread was another "GT500 is better than ZL1" thread where the argument was that the ZL1 fails because GM decided to do quality assurance on it.

Where on earth is the logic in that?


I'm all for a 5.8 liter Mustang making 650HP, but that wasn't what was in question here, and unfortunately in this round, GM did their part in QA and so they get points for that. That doesn't take anything away from Ford, it just means GM actually did their job. Now if in 6 months or a year we see recalls for silly things on the ZL1 that could have easily been avoided in the QA process, then by all means bash away, GM will have dropped the ball on their little QA fiasco. But until then, it's just not fair, it's not logical, and it reflects poorly on the blue-bleeding Ford loyal that attack GM for doing the smart thing by trying to make sure the car people receive is worthy of being on the road (at least from a mechanical standpoint, all opinions on the lack of GM power or performance aside.)


To clarify as well, the reason I posted the article about Mustang getrag transmissions failing was to illustrate that saying GM should have the car literally perfect and without flaw is an unfair standard to hold them to because not even Ford can claim that. It's not bashing Ford, it's just a fact of ALL auto manufacturers, and therefore it's not fair to hold GM to a different standard if you want to be a reasonable car enthusiast.

[LANDY]

Every manufacturer has had recalls, even on their "flagship" models.

I just read today that Ford is recalling some Taurus's and then there's this one: http://www.nitrobahn.com/news/2011-2012-ford-mustangs-under-nhtsa-investigation-recall-likely/ (previously mentioned).

Bailouts have nothing to do with quality.

Regardless of manufacturer if its quick, fast, handles well, or looks bad ass it cool in my eyes. Who made it means nothing to me or even if it's the quickest, some of the coolest cars I've driven have not been that quick.
Best post yet!
i like Ford, GM and the right Mopar. heck i have 3 GM's in my front yard and a broken Ford in my garage. the people who are loyal to one automaker dont know what they are missing out. a wise car guy see's reality which is they are many cool cars out there to be sticking with just what ford or GM makes.

[MOTOWN]

Every manufacturer has had recalls, even on their "flagship" models.

I just read today that Ford is recalling some Taurus's and then there's this one: http://www.nitrobahn.com/news/2011-2012-ford-mustangs-under-nhtsa-investigation-recall-likely/ (previously mentioned).

Bailouts have nothing to do with quality.

Regardless of manufacturer if its quick, fast, handles well, or looks bad ass it cool in my eyes. Who made it means nothing to me or even if it's the quickest, some of the coolest cars I've driven have not been that quick.

Very well said i agree 1,000,000,000%;) NUFF SAID!

[Fosters]

That, I can totally accept.

What I have a hard time swallowing is making defamatory accusations against something, EVEN IF I DON'T CARE MUCH FOR IT EITHER, when they aren't based in logic or at least empirical data.

You could talk all day about how 4th gen F-bodies equipped with the factory 10-bolt rear diffs are known to blow those diffs to bits on the drag strip, and all I could do is agree, because it happens, and it has happened, there are facts to back up that claim and there is no refuting them.

But the essence of this thread was another "GT500 is better than ZL1" thread where the argument was that the ZL1 fails because GM decided to do quality assurance on it.

Where on earth is the logic in that?


I'm all for a 5.8 liter Mustang making 650HP, but that wasn't what was in question here, and unfortunately in this round, GM did their part in QA and so they get points for that. That doesn't take anything away from Ford, it just means GM actually did their job. Now if in 6 months or a year we see recalls for silly things on the ZL1 that could have easily been avoided in the QA process, then by all means bash away, GM will have dropped the ball on their little QA fiasco. But until then, it's just not fair, it's not logical, and it reflects poorly on the blue-bleeding Ford loyal that attack GM for doing the smart thing by trying to make sure the car people receive is worthy of being on the road (at least from a mechanical standpoint, all opinions on the lack of GM power or performance aside.)


To clarify as well, the reason I posted the article about Mustang getrag transmissions failing was to illustrate that saying GM should have the car literally perfect and without flaw is an unfair standard to hold them to because not even Ford can claim that. It's not bashing Ford, it's just a fact of ALL auto manufacturers, and therefore it's not fair to hold GM to a different standard if you want to be a reasonable car enthusiast.

It's not fair to GM... you know what's not fair? GM's bailout by tax payers. That is not fair. Getting butthurt over "not fair" comments of GM on a Ford board... Seriously?

And this whole "GM is doing the right thing by delaying deliveries"... gimme a break. That's the same line you hear from the Toyota nutswingers when you ask them what happened with the Tundra crumbling tailgates, or the tacoma rusty frames, or the bed bounce or the tie rods going out or losing steering... Oh, Toyota is obviously caring about their customers by issuing recalls!

If you want fairness to GM, sorry to break your feelings, you'll find it on a GM forum. Something tells me you're not on there defending Fords though. Drive what you enjoy and leave the others to their beliefs.

[guspech750]

a wise car guy see's reality which is they are many cool cars out there to be sticking with just what ford or GM makes.
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa h :beer:

[Haggis]

Best post yet!
i like Ford, GM and the right Mopar. heck i have 3 GM's in my front yard and a broken Ford in my garage. the people who are loyal to one automaker dont know what they are missing out. a wise car guy see's reality which is they are many cool cars out there to be sticking with just what ford or GM makes.

There are? :confused: :eek:

[CBT]

We have:

1977 Chevy Corvette - mine
1998 Honda Civic - Amy's
2003 Mercury Marauder - mine

Cheapest to work on in order:
Vette
Civic
Maraduer

Least amount of work ever required:
Marauder
Civic
Vette

Fastest:
Vette
Marauder
Civic

Best miles per gallon:
Civic
Marauder
Vette

Best smiles per gallon:

Tie between the 'vette and the Marauder
Civic

Best all around for creature comforts/performance/trustworthiness is the one with the highest milage and most abused:
Mercury Marauder

[Phrog_gunner]

Don't I recall '99 Cobras being recalled for low engine power? It happens to all companies.

[guspech750]

Yugo made a nice car. Good gas mileage that improved over time. Over time as parts fell off, the car became lighter. Which gave it better has mileage.


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[Haggis]

Yugo made a nice car.


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I had one, had to use it for fire wood one winter.

[Phrog_gunner]

I had one, had to use it for fire wood one winter.

You said wood.

[guspech750]

^^^^^^^ lmao!! you two lmao!!^^^^^^^


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[Haggis]

You said wood.

I said; "fire wood".

[chevsmoker]

I said; "fire wood".
still said wood thou lol

[Haggis]

still said wood thou lol

Ok, is this better; "firewood".

[Fosters]

Best all around for creature comforts/performance/trustworthiness is the one with the highest milage and most abused:
Mercury Marauder

:beer:

My mustang has seen way more abuse from me than any other car, but my truck has probably seen even worse before I bought it.

Only thing I ever broke on the mustang were 2 rear wheel studs - I think it was a combination of bad MN roads and having a spool in it - and the bushings in the stock control arms from launching on slicks.

The MM is a nice cruiser with an attitude, that I plan on driving until the wheels fall off.

[chevsmoker]

Ok, is this better; "firewood".
yea alil but you aint gotta please me im just pointing out obvious things :lol: