GM sells out to Honda, but what about Ford?

[woaface]

In the March 2004 edition of Car and Driver on page 142, there's an article entitled "Saturn Vue V-6 AWD GM Breaks down and buys a Honda." Aaron Robinson, who wrote the article, says he was a guest at the Twin Ring Motegi race track in Japan. I'd like to quote part of the article. "Dawdling behind the pits, awaiting a drive in an S2000, I turned around to find Honda's president, Hiroyuki Yoshino, standing nearby, alone, having wandered away from his ever-present SWAT team of handlers. The question was delivered with a shaky voice: 'Is Honda discussing an engine sale with GM?' Yoshino, arms folded, eyes impassive, remained mute for a moment, then said, 'Yes, and we are talking to Ford, too.' "

Now this sparks three major questions in my wee brain:
1.) Is Ford activily seeking the sales of one or more of Ford products with Honda engines?
2.) It's now become obvious that GM's VUE V-6 AWD has a Honda engine, but is Car and Driver trying to jerk some legs and spice up the moment by saying Ford is activily seeking Honda engines for one or more of their automobiles?
3.) Is the American auto industry going nigh?

Yeah, just my thoughts.
-James

[Fourth Horseman]

I guess there's two ways you can look at this. You could argue that this is just a sign of the globalization of the automotive industry. American companies own many foreign car companies and in turn buy components including engines from others. Or you could view it as yet another sad example of how we've let yet another industry slip from our grasp.

Either way, as a consumer Asian cars just don't do anything for me. I don't think that a Japanese engine in an otherwise American car would stop me from buying, but I'd prefer some Detroit iron under the hood.

[woaface]

I guess there's two ways you can look at this. You could argue that this is just a sign of the globalization of the automotive industry. American companies own many foreign car companies and in turn buy components including engines from others. Very true, the Mazda 6S is a simple as a Duratec shipped to Japan where Mazda adds Dual Overhead Cams, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just wondering about this so far:)

[Macon Marauder]

Or you can do what I do: look at the mag for the pics!

Seriously, you have to take that stuff with a grain of salt. GM confirmed in another magazine that they were working with Honda to "design an engine." The Honda people said, "Yeah right - they told us what they needed and we sold 'em some." So yeah, the Saturn SUV has a Honda engine. Most Saturn owners will never know or care.

As for Ford, maybe they were talking to Honda - maybe not. As long as no Ford of mine has a Honda engine - I don't care.
:)

[dwasson]

Seriously, you have to take that stuff with a grain of salt. GM confirmed in another magazine that they were working with Honda to "design an engine." The Honda people said, "Yeah right - they told us what they needed and we sold 'em some." So yeah, the Saturn SUV has a Honda engine. Most Saturn owners will never know or care.



Saturn owners will know. They'll know the first time they have to floor it at an onramp and find that they don't have to turn up the radio. The engine in the Saturn was a buzzy little thing that didn't make anything but noise above 4000 rpm. It will be good for more americans to see how smooth a 4 cyl engine can be.

[MAD-3R]

The new engine's from Ford are to have Variable Valve Timing, and Ford may be paying Honda for consultation work.

[woaface]

Macon Marauder, I did see that. Look at the engine in the VUE, and then look at the engine in a TL or Accord. It's pretty easy to gander a guess of who's engine it is.

[marauder307]

Ford seems to be more preoccupied with the Brits right now; not sure I'd worry about a Ford-Japan connection. Just look at www.ford.com ;FMC owns controlling interest in Jaguar, Land Rover, and Aston Martin. The V-6s in the Jag X-type are Ford engines. Interestingly enough, they also appear to have controlling interest in Volvo.

Aston Martin...wow...James Bond, anybody?

[Dan]

One country at a time for Ford. First England... buy all the car co's over there. Next, Sweden... oh wait, GM has Saab. Hmmm, HEY!!! Let's move on over to Japan.

Man, would I love it if Ford bought a Japanese car co. That would be sooo funny.

What would we do then? :0

Best,

Dan

[woaface]

Ford owns a "controlling interest" in Mazda:rasta:

[stevengerard]

Remember that Ford used a Yamaha engine in the original SHO's. You other SHO nuts fill in here but here's the story I know. Ford made a deal with Yamaha for 5 thousand engines for a Supercar back in the early 80s - probably a GT. That didn't fly but they already inked the contract for the engines and had to do something with them. These things are awesome engines, that red line at 8200 RPM. I've been told they were originally tested up to 13,000 with no problems. I was able to do 0-60 with only a 1 to 2 shift. Autocrossing them was great too as you could stay in 2nd for almost all the courses one entered. I was always disappointed that it wasn't a Ford engine under the hood but I accepted it because it wasn't a Honda or Toyota etc.

[bigslim]

Ford is using Toyota's hybrid engine for it's Escape.

[RCSignals]

Ford is using Toyota's hybrid engine for it's Escape.
No they aren't. Ford is not using the Toyota engine, They have licensed some of Toyota's hybrid technology, and are using it in combination with some of their own hybrid technology.
Toyota in turn will be licensing some of Ford's hybrid technology as well.

[RCSignals]

Remember that Ford used a Yamaha engine in the original SHO's. You other SHO nuts fill in here but here's the story I know. Ford made a deal with Yamaha for 5 thousand engines for a Supercar back in the early 80s - probably a GT. That didn't fly but they already inked the contract for the engines and had to do something with them. These things are awesome engines, that red line at 8200 RPM. I've been told they were originally tested up to 13,000 with no problems. I was able to do 0-60 with only a 1 to 2 shift. Autocrossing them was great too as you could stay in 2nd for almost all the courses one entered. I was always disappointed that it wasn't a Ford engine under the hood but I accepted it because it wasn't a Honda or Toyota etc.
Yes, but from what I understand the engine was a Ford design, built by Yamaha in Japan, of Yamaha and Ford parts. The block apparently was cast by Ford and shipped to Japan

[RCSignals]

Ford seems to be more preoccupied with the Brits right now; not sure I'd worry about a Ford-Japan connection. Just look at www.ford.com (http://www.ford.com/) ;FMC owns controlling interest in Jaguar, Land Rover, and Aston Martin. The V-6s in the Jag X-type are Ford engines. Interestingly enough, they also appear to have controlling interest in Volvo.

Aston Martin...wow...James Bond, anybody?
For what Ford paid for all that, I hope they own more than just controlling interest.

[junehhan]

No they aren't. Ford is not using the Toyota engine, They have licensed some of Toyota's hybrid technology, and are using it in combination with some of their own hybrid technology.
Toyota in turn will be licensing some of Ford's hybrid technology as well.

Slim, it is my understanding that the Escape Hybrid will feature an ultra clean version of the Duratec 23 2.3 litre I4 motor. Actually, Ford just got done putting it through it's paces in Manhatten, and they were able to average 38mpg driving for 37 hours on a single tank in one of the most congested cities in the country...........

[bigslim]

Everything said is true. I just made a quick point. I just wanted to let Woaface know that all companies work together. Ford and GM are working together to develop a transmission for their products.

[RCSignals]

that's true about the Ford/GM transmission. They each will manufacture/produce their own version though. I wonder how much of will actually interchange?

[rookie1]

buying engines is certainly nothing new and probably has nothing to do with quality or engineering. Don't forget the big three's current labor contract includes paying 80% of the employees salary in the event of a lay off. There are also currency fluctuations to deal with.
Why would I build a new engine plant if I can buy them cheaper and don't have to worry about shifting market conditions. For the short term this is an arrangement that may help the bottom line.

This is in no way shape or form a slight to UAW members, I'm from Detroit and I know how hard those guys/girls work and the amount of BS they have to deal with on a daily basis.

[woaface]

Everything said is true. I just made a quick point. I just wanted to let Woaface know that all companies work together. Ford and GM are working together to develop a transmission for their products.
Yes yes, this is true, to point it out further, who entered a few trucks in to NASCAR...Toyota...